Update (~2 years after leaving medical school)

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whizatphys said:
To be as real as possible with any of whom my words might affect, your words affect me. So please, if you have no positive feedback to provide in regards to the progress that I have made since leaving medical school, don't leave any at all. It hurts my feelings. Straight up. This is a feel good post, to encourage good feelings. We all need so much more of that!!! Thanks all 🙂 -RP
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My last post here was a joke, a joke in support of you, a joke making fun of how the type of personality that seems to think "MD is the only way for me," a joke making fun of the type of personality that will only be happy being overworked and miserable...a personality often fueled by blind ambition.

I often look at other health professions; nurses, scrub techs, US techs, and wonder, "why the hell didn't I do that?"

But holy hell. If you can't make a discussion without anybody giving anything other than "positive feedback" towards your words...and you represent the type of person who needed to leave medicine because it was too tough, then I know for sure I was the type of person that shouldn't do anything else.
 
Donald Juan said:
My last post here was a joke, a joke in support of you, a joke making fun of how the type of personality that seems to think "MD is the only way for me," a joke making fun of the type of personality that will only be happy being overworked and miserable...a personality often fueled by blind ambition.

I often look at other health professions; nurses, scrub techs, US techs, and wonder, "why the hell didn't I do that?"

But holy hell. If you can't make a discussion without anybody giving anything other than "positive feedback" towards your words...and you represent the type of person who needed to leave medicine because it was too tough, then I know for sure I was the type of person that shouldn't do anything else.
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You mean SDN can't be her safe space?
 
Dro133 said:
Thank you for sharing your story. Would you also mind sharing what you did during your LOA, and what you're doing now?
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During my LOA I got a full-time job at a non-profit doing what is essentially social work though I don't have formal education/training in social work. Initially it was somewhat of a 'placeholder' gig for me until I decided if I was going to go back or not. I was back and forth for a very long time about whether I was going to go back or not. I went as far as putting in the paperwork to return this year and tortured myself to the very last day until new loans were about to be disbursed before having the courage to officially withdraw. It is good that there is a time limit on these things, otherwise I probably would have never let it go and would've been on my deathbed still debating myself internally lol Looking back it would have been much simpler to just rip off the bandaid all at once and get it over with but as we all know, it takes a ton of work to even have the opportunity to matriculate and I didn't feel right walking away from it abruptly despite what my gut was telling me. It was somewhat unsettling that after years of hard work and toil to get myself a seat, all it took was a simple click of send of an email to make it all end in an instant. I just didn't feel like I had the mental stamina for the lifestyle, having to admit that sucked but better earlier than later. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more specifics or just bounce stuff around.

As for what I'm doing now, I am still at the 'placeholder' gig. It is not at all intellectually-stimulating (though most jobs aren't) but I feel incredibly fortunate to have a full-time salary and health insurance for the time being. Like the OP, I too have been wondering what if any graduate education might be appropriate for me but I am not rushing into anything. I have been strongly considering going into education and teaching high school biology though I am not sure about what the most appropriate path would be for that, what then job market is like in my region and or if I would even enjoy teaching that age group. I'm sure my fantasy of inspiring a manageable group of young engaged teenagers to love and appreciate the sciences like I once did and nurture their love of learning may not match the realities on the ground.

Looking back at my experience now that the dust is beginning to settle, its clear to me that a major part of my motivation for med school was my love of learning and the intellectual stimulation of it all. Combine that with the job security, potential salary, ability to actually use all that fancy book learning to help people, it seemed like a no brainer for a 20-something who loves learning who has the financial means and lack of general career direction. For anyone in the future reading this I caution you to fully consider the realities of what medical education/training is like. It is NOT a leisurely education in science where you learn all this cool stuff at a comfortable pace of your choosing. It is the memorization olympics and the conditions under which you are expected to memorize will not be under your control. The volume-flow rate of information can not and will not be interrupted. May the odds ever be in your favor.
 
circulus vitios said:
I quit med school a year and a half ago. I regret it every now and then, until I think back to how much I hated med school and how much my future would have sucked. Last week was the first week of class of my masters program. I won't sugarcoat it: the coursework isn't thoroughly captivating but it is enjoyable, more so than med school. I'm looking forward to finishing my degree in a couple years and landing an interesting and challenging job that will afford me a good salary and the free time to pursue my own hobbies and interests.

FWIW I quit after five months of first year, at the end of first semester. I had serious doubts a couple months in and by the end of the 4th month I was positive I wanted out. Thank god I didn't listen to the people who pushed me to stick out the first year.
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How did you get the courage to call it quits? Was your family really upset? I'm a month in and I'm feeling the same. I know it hasn't been long yet, but I can already tell I'm going to hate it. The only thing that's keeping me in right now is pride, hope of decent pay in the future, and shame avoidance - I don't want to be seen as a failure.

You did something really brave. I want the courage to do the same. I wish you good luck.

whizatphys said:
Honestly, I probably would have killed myself.
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So, would you have stayed if you had the 100,000 dollars in debt?
 
I'm a fourth year medical student and I would seriously discourage you from quitting. I would go as far as saying that over 7/10 people who quit medical school do so for school unrelated reasons. They quit because they are unable to do things outside of school such as relationships with the other sex, hobbies, and etc. This translates into their school performance. But I am seriously telling you, even if you go to another job, you will run into the same problems. You have to find the real source of your unhappiness and address it. I was seriously depressed and wanted to quit my first year. But I am now happy because I keep myself stress free going to the gym, hang out more with medical school friends and manage my school money to travel the world. Just this year I have taken 4 vacations outside the country to places. I have found my true happiness and balance. And I couldn't be more grateful about being medical school. I am seriously loving life. I am writing this post in Costa Rica since I took a few days off for fourth year but I will go
back soon and continue my fourth year rotations in a few days. You can find a field you love and outside of medicine enjoy a life you love. Don't be afraid to address the true sources of your unhappiness and try to fix it.
 
This is awesome....as long as you have a good job/career now and no loans (!)....If I had the prowess to teach well like you, I would have started a tutoring company with many chains already! 😉 tutoring is such a good business nowadays especially since you were in medicine briefly!
 
twospadz said:
I'm a fourth year medical student and I would seriously discourage you from quitting. I would go as far as saying that over 7/10 people who quit medical school do so for school unrelated reasons. They quit because they are unable to do things outside of school such as relationships with the other sex, hobbies, and etc. This translates into their school performance. But I am seriously telling you, even if you go to another job, you will run into the same problems. You have to find the real source of your unhappiness and address it. I was seriously depressed and wanted to quit my first year. But I am now happy because I keep myself stress free going to the gym, hang out more with medical school friends and manage my school money to travel the world. Just this year I have taken 4 vacations outside the country to places. I have found my true happiness and balance. And I couldn't be more grateful about being medical school. I am seriously loving life. I am writing this post in Costa Rica since I took a few days off for fourth year but I will go
back soon and continue my fourth year rotations in a few days. You can find a field you love and outside of medicine enjoy a life you love. Don't be afraid to address the true sources of your unhappiness and try to fix it.
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How are you paying for this??? Additional loans?
 
whizatphys said:
Honestly, I probably would have killed myself.
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For those of us that are 300k+ in debt, there really is only one way to go, and that's forward. If it weren't for the debt, I probably would have dropped in first year, but sticking it out made me (personally- this definitely isn't advice for anyone) much stronger of a person.
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twospadz said:
I'm a fourth year medical student and I would seriously discourage you from quitting. I would go as far as saying that over 7/10 people who quit medical school do so for school unrelated reasons. They quit because they are unable to do things outside of school such as relationships with the other sex, hobbies, and etc. This translates into their school performance. But I am seriously telling you, even if you go to another job, you will run into the same problems. You have to find the real source of your unhappiness and address it. I was seriously depressed and wanted to quit my first year. But I am now happy because I keep myself stress free going to the gym, hang out more with medical school friends and manage my school money to travel the world. Just this year I have taken 4 vacations outside the country to places. I have found my true happiness and balance. And I couldn't be more grateful about being medical school. I am seriously loving life. I am writing this post in Costa Rica since I took a few days off for fourth year but I will go
back soon and continue my fourth year rotations in a few days. You can find a field you love and outside of medicine enjoy a life you love. Don't be afraid to address the true sources of your unhappiness and try to fix it.
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Some people really aren't cut out for it though, mentally, physically, or emotionally. Some of the ones that try and force themselves to stick it out are the ones that end up as suicides down the line, because they're too deeply invested to turn back and don't see a way out. Honest self-reflection early on can literally save someone's life.
 
whizatphys said:
Honestly, I probably would have killed myself.
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Mad Jack said:
For those of us that are 300k+ in debt, there really is only one way to go, and that's forward. If it weren't for the debt, I probably would have dropped in first year, but sticking it out made me (personally- this definitely isn't advice for anyone) much stronger of a person.
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As someone who will also be in 300k+ debt, I have a question for you - is the 300k really the end of the world? With the 10% of your salary cap and the pay-as-you-go program, isn't it possible to carry on with the debt? With government loan forgiveness, you can even get forgiven after 20-25 years of qualifying payments of just 10% of your yearly income, right?

Please correctly if I'm wrong. I'm just a lowly first year.
 
nebuchadnezzarII said:
As someone who will also be in 300k+ debt, I have a question for you - is the 300k really the end of the world? With the 10% of your salary cap and the pay-as-you-go program, isn't it possible to carry on with the debt? With government loan forgiveness, you can even get forgiven after 20-25 years of qualifying payments of just 10% of your yearly income, right?

Please correctly if I'm wrong. I'm just a lowly first year.
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If the debt is forgiven, you're taxed on that amount, which will likely be a six digit figure that you'll owe that year.
 
Rekt said:
If the debt is forgiven, you're taxed on that amount, which will likely be a six digit figure that you'll owe that year.
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Sweet Jesus, that sounds horrible! Thank you for pointing that out. See, these are the small details they never mention. That means getting out during first semester or the first year is the ONLY option, unless you wanna die.
 
Am I the only one who thinks OP is a straight up assh*le for letting her parents front a small fortune for her to go to medical school debt free only to bounce 2 and a half years later? WOW.
 
sammiesings said:
Am I the only one who thinks OP is a straight up assh*le for letting her parents front a small fortune for her to go to medical school debt free only to bounce 2 and a half years later? WOW.
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A little bit. But you can't live in the prison of your parent's shadows if it's not right for you...What actually peeved me a little was the OP's attitude. Seemed a little dismissive to viewers and the tone of writing/speaking seemed to be coming from a very privileged person with little self-awareness. Just my initial thoughts.
 
nebuchadnezzarII said:
A little bit. But you can't live in the prison of your parent's shadows if it's not right for you...What actually peeved me a little was the OP's attitude. Seemed a little dismissive to viewers and the tone of writing/speaking seemed to be coming from a very privileged person with little self-awareness. Just my initial thoughts.
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Agreed that you can't. But her parents didn't force her to go to medical school. and given how flippantly she states she's "debt free," I doubt she cared at all about the money they lost investing in her education.

In a world where most of us cannot even fathom asking our parents for that kind of money/having parents who could afford that, you'd think she'd have a) figured it out before letting them front such a large sum of money or b) figured it out before being 2.5 years in.

I think what bothers me the most is the privileged way she states it. As if it was their responsibility to fund her schooling and losing that investment is just their problem.

You better believe if I was OP I would feel indebted to them for that sum. And I would be leveraging that "$50/hour tutoring job" to pay them back asap.
 
nebuchadnezzarII said:
As someone who will also be in 300k+ debt, I have a question for you - is the 300k really the end of the world? With the 10% of your salary cap and the pay-as-you-go program, isn't it possible to carry on with the debt? With government loan forgiveness, you can even get forgiven after 20-25 years of qualifying payments of just 10% of your yearly income, right?

Please correctly if I'm wrong. I'm just a lowly first year.
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Here's the trouble- if it's forgiven, you owe the IRS a tax bomb as if the forgiven balance is income. That's an issue, as the IRS can seize your retirement funds, home, investments, etc. PSLF might work or might not- I wouldn't hang my hat on it. As a physician, none of this is catastrophic, but if you drop out of medical school, the debt will be unmanageable unless you end up in an extremely high paying field.
 
nebuchadnezzarII said:
A little bit. But you can't live in the prison of your parent's shadows if it's not right for you...What actually peeved me a little was the OP's attitude. Seemed a little dismissive to viewers and the tone of writing/speaking seemed to be coming from a very privileged person with little self-awareness. Just my initial thoughts.
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I'll just say your first block of histology/cell biology is absolutely not representative of the rest of medical school.
 
justabanana said:
Ur a inspiration.

Seriously folks there are more creative ways to deal with debt. No one is gonna break your legs or throw you in the river for med school debt.
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As someone who's contemplated leaving many times but has a lot of debt. Can you tell me more about these creative ways?

I don't plan on leaving, but it would be nice to know the debt isn't holding me back if I ever want to.

Agree with MadJack, some days I really think the debt and the possible social shaming I'd get were the only things that kept me from quitting. Yet, for all the crappy moments I wanted to quit, they've somehow been followed by some amazing moments that made me glad I stuck it out. I feel like those struggles made me a stronger person.
 
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whizatphys said:
Over the course of tutoring such a wide-range of topics over the past year or so, I have taken affinity towards the process of learning and specifically as it pertains to the sciences. What type of graduate education should I pursue, if any? This is a question that I consider. I have dissected a human body and learned from it thoroughly; my ability to comprehend and interpret material is above the average. It is interesting, very, to apply medical school skills to the outer world, per say. Any idea, as to what I might seek a degree in next?
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You seem to be starting from a baseline assumption that you need to get another graduate degree. Why? Seriously --? If you like what you're doing and can see a future in it, why get some other degree to then get some other job? Let your career interests guide your educational path this time around, not the other way. You're clearly very intelligent, so have the ability to do well in a career that suits your talents and abilities. Find that first -- then get the education you need (if any) to reach the upper levels. You'll be in a much better place to absorb the education you get anyway --
 
zeppelinpage4 said:
As someone who's contemplated leaving many times but has a lot of debt. Can you tell me more about these creative ways?
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Probably the easiest way is accepting it and paying it off, but if you'd rather kill yourself than do that for some reason (OP's position) the options become pretty wide open, although I'd say none of them are probably as good as just paying it off would be. I had a buddy who worked and lived on a farm in Hawaii for 3 years, so that'd probably be my first go-to. Maybe I'd go teach English in China and overstay my visa or something. Hell, go all out, get a fake identity on the darknet markets and just be someone else if you're desperate to integrate in American society without paying off your 100k debt. Or maybe go live in a monastery in the northwest or something, they don't do background checks, you work for your stay. My point was that if your alternative is suicide, everything's really on the table.
 
justabanana said:
Probably the easiest way is accepting it and paying it off, but if you'd rather kill yourself than do that for some reason (OP's position) the options become pretty wide open, although I'd say none of them are probably as good as just paying it off would be. I had a buddy who worked and lived on a farm in Hawaii for 3 years, so that'd probably be my first go-to. Maybe I'd go teach English in China and overstay my visa or something. Hell, go all out, get a fake identity on the darknet markets and just be someone else if you're desperate to integrate in American society without paying off your 100k debt. Or maybe go live in a monastery in the northwest or something, they don't do background checks, you work for your stay. My point was that if your alternative is suicide, everything's really on the table.
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Hmm...I wouldn't mind seeing other parts of the country or world.
But really, if it's realistically possible to chisel away and pay off the debt without it following you for the rest of your life, I'm prob okay with it...though it's definitely not ideal. Yeah, I'm gonna stay in med school and just try to finish this whole thing I think. The alternatives don't seem any better. Thankfully, at the moment, I'm content with where I am.
 
This thread should honestly be deleted before someone on the edge comes in and reads it. It starts out great and ends with the OP being in a position that very few are (able to leave with no debt) and then saying they would have just killed themselves otherwise. Not exactly uplifting.
 
justabanana said:
Probably the easiest way is accepting it and paying it off, but if you'd rather kill yourself than do that for some reason (OP's position) the options become pretty wide open, although I'd say none of them are probably as good as just paying it off would be. I had a buddy who worked and lived on a farm in Hawaii for 3 years, so that'd probably be my first go-to. Maybe I'd go teach English in China and overstay my visa or something. Hell, go all out, get a fake identity on the darknet markets and just be someone else if you're desperate to integrate in American society without paying off your 100k debt. Or maybe go live in a monastery in the northwest or something, they don't do background checks, you work for your stay. My point was that if your alternative is suicide, everything's really on the table.
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100k isn't so bad, it's those of us that have 300k+ that literally couldn't even afford the interest on a normal salary.
 
DokterMom said:
You seem to be starting from a baseline assumption that you need to get another graduate degree. Why? Seriously --? If you like what you're doing and can see a future in it, why get some other degree to then get some other job? Let your career interests guide your educational path this time around, not the other way. You're clearly very intelligent, so have the ability to do well in a career that suits your talents and abilities. Find that first -- then get the education you need (if any) to reach the upper levels. You'll be in a much better place to absorb the education you get anyway --
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This times 1000. I can't tell you how frustrating it is talking to friends/relatives in college whose primary goal after college it is to get a JD, MS Fin, MS Technology Management, etc instead of aiming for a job. You just dropped 100k on your education, why not try using that to make some money? Young people have just accepted the absurd idea that more education is better regardless of the cost. It doesn't matter if saying you have a MBA from UChicago is prestigious if you're never able to make up the opportunity cost of just sticking to your accounting degree and climbing up the corporate ladder.

My advice is that you don't need more school, you need a job.
 
nebuchadnezzarII said:
How did you get the courage to call it quits? Was your family really upset? I'm a month in and I'm feeling the same. I know it hasn't been long yet, but I can already tell I'm going to hate it. The only thing that's keeping me in right now is pride, hope of decent pay in the future, and shame avoidance - I don't want to be seen as a failure.

You did something really brave. I want the courage to do the same. I wish you good luck.



So, would you have stayed if you had the 100,000 dollars in debt?
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I went home to visit them on the weekend and I was stressing out about studying. They asked me how I liked med school. I flat out told them that I hated it and that I was thinking about dropping out. They weren't upset. My dad does blue collar work for a living and my mom is a bank teller so it's not like they have super high expectations. I do think that they were a bit disappointed. But they saw how much time, effort, and money I put into getting into med school, so they knew I had my reasons, and they also knew that I would figure something out in the end.
 
exsanguination said:
I'm a senior EM resident and this post resonated with me 🙁

Not a day goes by that I wonder if I should have picked a different specialty or field altogether. The "high salary" (250k/year) isn't really that large when you consider the behemoth effort required to get to this point and the liability one assumes. And what are the perks? A life time of dealing with nonsense, answering to hospital administration, and boat-loads of charting (I have 16 charts from my shift that ended a few hours ago to finish!).

The most important part of this post is that the OP is her own boss. Controlling your work environment is such a critical aspect to happiness if you are relegated to being a wage-slave like most of the US populace. EM docs (and a lot of other specialties) are no longer in charge of their practices. Metrics, patient satisfaction, protocols, and "standard of care" pigeon hole me and my colleagues routinely. "No doctor, you cannot give that medication because it is against hospital policy to use it without getting x,y, z test and you can only run it at this rate" "No doctor, ketamine is a dangerous drug and cannot be used for that without monitoring, an RN/RT/Tech in the room, aid airway equipment close by. "No doctor, you have to properly document this diagnosis (read: bend the truth) in order to bill for a level 5 chart, otherwise the hospital loses money." My attendings answer to the medical director, who answers to the C-suite who answers to the hospital board and so on. You are a cog, utterly replaceable.

The only physicians that have similar autonomy as the OP are doctors that can still open a cash-based practice (dermatology, plastic surgery, and choices such as those) and a select few elective surgeons who bring actual profit to hospitals that lose money on other acute care services, which seem to be predominantly medicaid patients.

The problem is that as pre-meds, and even medical students, there is no conceivable way for you to understand the rigors of being a doctor, let alone what each specialty entails as an attending. I don't understand it yet to the full extent because I'm not an attending (though moonlighting has matured me considerably).

If you have rich parents like the OP, and not a mountain of debt like I do, I would consider the option of leaving or at least finishing school to get the MD and moving on to something else. I will practicing until I can pay off the debt and then ideally stumble upon some other profession. The pay cut will be welcomed because I will gain so much in other aspects of my life.

Remember this as you move on to the next post: I was just as eager as some of you during my MS4 EM audition rotation. I thought EM was the best! I even was an EMT for a while and thought that this is what I wanted. Nothing cooler than "saving a life" right? I hate to break your bubble, but I can count the amount of "true saves" I've had on one finger and my colleagues would corroborate their similar experiences too.

Medicine eats your soul one day at a time and one day you will look at yourself and wonder how the heck you got here!
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Do you think this is because you're overworked? As an attending that can work 30-40 hours in EM, would you still feel like you made the wrong choice in choosing EM?
 
zeppelinpage4 said:
As someone who's contemplated leaving many times but has a lot of debt. Can you tell me more about these creative ways?

I don't plan on leaving, but it would be nice to know the debt isn't holding me back if I ever want to.

Agree with MadJack, some days I really think the debt and the possible social shaming I'd get were the only things that kept me from quitting. Yet, for all the crappy moments I wanted to quit, they've somehow been followed by some amazing moments that made me glad I stuck it out. I feel like those struggles made me a stronger person.
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PSLF forgiven on all federal loans in you work in government or nonprofit for 10 years.
 
Rekt said:
If the debt is forgiven, you're taxed on that amount, which will likely be a six digit figure that you'll owe that year.
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The taxable amount of debt forgiveness is limited to the size of your personal assets (IRS Form 982). The most the IRS would take from you is roughly 1/3 of your assets that year.

If you don't become a doctor and instead take on a normal ~$50K a year job, you probably won't have much in the way of assets and the tax impact of your loan forgivenesss will be quite small.
 
sazerac said:
The taxable amount of debt forgiveness is limited to the size of your personal assets (IRS Form 982). The most the IRS would take from you is roughly 1/3 of your assets that year.

If you don't become a doctor and instead take on a normal ~$50K a year job, you probably won't have much in the way of assets and the tax impact of your loan forgivenesss will be quite small.
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Hey, I'm a little confused here. I was thinking that the remainder of your loan is taxed? So...that means if I had 200k in loans that were forgiven, I'd get taxed on that 200k. So, I'd have to pay about 1/3 of that 200k maximum. Right? Not one third of my income for that year?
 
nebuchadnezzarII said:
Hey, I'm a little confused here. I was thinking that the remainder of your loan is taxed? So...that means if I had 200k in loans that were forgiven, I'd get taxed on that 200k. So, I'd have to pay about 1/3 of that 200k maximum. Right? Not one third of my income for that year?
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You declare the amount of the loan forgiveness as income. However the taxable amount of the forgiveness is limited to the amount of your assets (cars and houses and bank accounts and stuff).

If you have over $200,000 in assets, you will have to declare all $200,000 of forgiveness as income, paying about $67,000 extra in taxes that year.

If you are a regular 45 year old schmoe earning $50,000 a year, with maybe $50,000 in house equity and another $50,000 in other assets, you will only be taxed on $100,000 of extra income, paying maybe an extra $33,000 in income tax because of the forgiveness.

You can't go to the poor house as a result of taxable loan forgiveness.
 
@DokterMom The tutoring gig is non-sustainable and her base is too small. Trading a base income of 15 students on a kill it/eat it model when she was lined up for a fixed six figure income is a horrible trade and no one would retain that business model unless (1) it is sustainable, (2) it is reliable, or (3) it can be expanded. At least two out of three of these qualities are needed in order for these businesses to make sense to stay in business. Most of these types of jobs solidify their base through retainer. However, there's so many franchises and open competition that she probably is looking at getting students for a max of 1.5-2 years if she's lucky. When anyone can be a competitor with a low barrier of entry then everyone is going to be competing for their own slice of the pie.

She's either operating at a loss or still has someone helping her shore up the leaky bottom line. Kids would stay in school 24/7 if they had the choice in a bad economy on the promise that they will be promised a better income with absolutely no substantial basis or due diligence on their own end. Isn't there another thread about a student whose staying in medical school because s/he can't even list a realistic Plan B option for dropping out? If you're stuck in a bad Plan A and constantly talk about quitting that's not attempting to find change, that's a coping mechanism.
 
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@Donald Juan Is it true that doctors absorb a majority of the risk from the litigious side of a malpractice case? For example, if there's a patient who comes out from a CABG with a pericardial infection that ends up with the patient dying then how does the blame get triaged assuming that there were no mistakes in care practiced by the physician/PA/Nurse/technician within the OR. I think that it's a lie to assume that in the actual case of risk management that the doctor simply absorbs all of the blame if a tech/mid-level practitioner has been shown to be at fault despite all parties taking adequate measures to protect themselves from litigation.
 
My advice was not to stay in tutoring or build a tutoring business -- though many people do and some are very successful at it:

DokterMom said:
You seem to be starting from a baseline assumption that you need to get another graduate degree. Why? Seriously --? If you like what you're doing and can see a future in it, why get some other degree to then get some other job? Let your career interests guide your educational path this time around, not the other way. You're clearly very intelligent, so have the ability to do well in a career that suits your talents and abilities. Find that first -- then get the education you need (if any) to reach the upper levels. You'll be in a much better place to absorb the education you get anyway --
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My advice, which I stand by, was to let her career guide her education and not the other way around. "Career" - not current job. But if she likes her current work, there is useful career information in that. Perhaps teaching?
 
Sardinia said:
@Donald Juan Is it true that doctors absorb a majority of the risk from the litigious side of a malpractice case? For example, if there's a patient who comes out from a CABG with a pericardial infection that ends up with the patient dying then how does the blame get triaged assuming that there were no mistakes in care practiced by the physician/PA/Nurse/technician within the OR. I think that it's a lie to assume that in the actual case of risk management that the doctor simply absorbs all of the blame if a tech/mid-level practitioner has been shown to be at fault despite all parties taking adequate measures to protect themselves from litigation.
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You're a doctor because the buck stops with you. The doctor makes all of the big decisions and takes all the risk.
 
Psai said:
You're a doctor because the buck stops with you. The doctor makes all of the big decisions and takes all the risk.
Click to expand...
Isn't this more clearly delineated when it comes to anesthesiology due to anesthesiologists often being a one man team in a majority of surgeries?
 
Sardinia said:
@Donald Juan Is it true that doctors absorb a majority of the risk from the litigious side of a malpractice case? For example, if there's a patient who comes out from a CABG with a pericardial infection that ends up with the patient dying then how does the blame get triaged assuming that there were no mistakes in care practiced by the physician/PA/Nurse/technician within the OR. I think that it's a lie to assume that in the actual case of risk management that the doctor simply absorbs all of the blame if a tech/mid-level practitioner has been shown to be at fault despite all parties taking adequate measures to protect themselves from litigation.
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In your example, there shouldn't be anyone to blame, this is not malpractice. This is why we have a patient sign an informed consent saying that infection is a risk of surgery; it is known that some patients will come back from surgery with an infection even if everything was done right. It doesn't mean that someone has to get paid legally.

With that said, someone also doesn't have to have the strongest grounds for malpractice to attempt a lawsuit. And sometimes your malpractice insurance will settle even if they would likely win at court after a lengthy battle. And yes, you as the doctor are stuck with the consequences.
 
@Donald Juan @Psai You would think that the saturation + increasing scope of practice for mid-level practitioners would logically correspond with a greater legal responsibility over patient outcome. Is the AMA attempting to take proactive measures to offset litigious responsibilities in lieu of the rise of PAs and NPs having an increasing amount of diagnostic oversight and decision making over patient care?
 
Sardinia said:
@Donald Juan @Psai You would think that the saturation + increasing scope of practice for mid-level practitioners would logically correspond with a greater legal responsibility over patient outcome. Is the AMA attempting to take proactive measures to offset litigious responsibilities in lieu of the rise of PAs and NPs having an increasing amount of diagnostic oversight and decision making over patient care?
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hahahaha don't hold your breath for the ama doing anything. Also, I don't see midlevels having increased decision making. Their role is the same, it's just whether or not the doctor has enough time to go over everything they're doing.
 
37Base said:
Man, this thread just affirms my current philosophy in med school. Health, personal wellness, both come first before school. I am totally fine cruising along the average if it means preserving my sanity.
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username456789 said:
As I've stated on here before, I found it well worth it to push the throttle during medical school for a measly 3 1/2 years to ensure a lifetime of relaxation, health, family time, and lower stress. Many people unfortunately choose the inverse.
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I think there's a happy medium between these two for most of us.

Edit: didn't realize there was a page 2 and that this comment is now totally out of place. Ignore this post please!
 
@DokterMom Today my own printer robbed me. A specialist that works for HP programmed a firmware update to lock it out from accepting the marginally cheaper third party ink cartridges I use to mass print documents. The fact that these circumstances strike me multiple times throughout any given day makes me believe that we live in a world where it's not worth living if you don't specialize. I think kids should go for extended programs with a bachelor's being the new high school diploma. But they should figure it out quickly because the wells are running dry and the system I think is going to start getting ugly in a decade.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Psai said:
You're a doctor because the buck stops with you. The doctor makes all of the big decisions and takes all the risk.
Click to expand...
Depends. The hospital can also take a pretty big hit if their policies can be shown to have contributed to an event. Hell, sometimes the hospital is entirely at fault. Most of the time, however, the physician and hospital will try to throw one another under the bus.
 
Sardinia said:
@DokterMom Today my own printer robbed me. A specialist that works for HP programmed a firmware update to lock it out from accepting the marginally cheaper third party ink cartridges I use to mass print documents. The fact that these circumstances strike me multiple times throughout any given day makes me believe that we live in a world where it's not worth living if you don't specialize. I think kids should go for extended programs with a bachelor's being the new high school diploma. But they should figure it out quickly because the wells are running dry and the system I think is going to start getting ugly in a decade.
Click to expand...

Wish I could say this surprised me... But then the price of printers is heavily subsidized by profits on the ink. I know they 'warn' you against using cheaper third party ink and note that it voids your warranty. But if they're going to intentionally lock you out, they should at least have some sort of contractual agreement where the buyer knows they are obligated to buy name brand ink or else their printer will (not may) be intentionally disabled.
 
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