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Lnsean said:
The federal government did file charges...it was stated in the article. As far as all the people involved...I don't think they filed against everyone.
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Didn't read that much about it. So some people got charged and the rest are at the beach now drinking beer?
 
Old said:
Actually from what I read the Express Scripts charge was dismissed because the business was an LLC and they were unable to prove charges against the owners vs the LLC. I think Express scripts could refile but don't know if they did. God Bless LLC's I guess. Proves the old saying innocent until proven guilty. Not sure about any other charges. So perhaps the former owners are alive and well and living large in a nice sunny climate. Me, I am off to work to count pills with a little tin knife. Guess they were smarter than me.
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Looks like Express Script has amended the complaint and refiled it. Now it could take about a year before the judge issues his decision. I think the government is holding off issuing an indictment to give Express Scripts a chance to recover the money. But if they fail, I'm pretty sure the government will then step in and come down on Doctor M hard. In the meantime, I can't imagine how much his legal fees. Do you think this would be covered by liability insurance?...
 
pezdispenser said:
Looks like Express Script has amended the complaint and refiled it. Now it could take about a year before the judge issues his decision. I think the government is holding off issuing an indictment to give Express Scripts a chance to recover the money. But if they fail, I'm pretty sure the government will then step in and come down on Doctor M hard. In the meantime, I can't imagine how much his legal fees. Do you think this would be covered by liability insurance?...
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They're facing criminal charges for CMS fraud...whether express scripts wants to file to recover their money or not does not affect that. Maybe express scripts found out there wasn't any money left to recover and felt it wasn't worth it.
 
Lnsean said:
They're facing criminal charges for CMS fraud...whether express scripts wants to file to recover their money or not does not affect that. Maybe express scripts found out there wasn't any money left to recover and felt it wasn't worth it.
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Umm, from the little bit I saw looks like 6 or 7 LLC for real estate holdings and various business interests. Money there it appears but again tangled in multiple LLC's. Probably on the beach enjoying the sun, a cold beer and a trophy girlfriend. So how is your day? Now where is my little tin knife?
 
Old said:
Umm, from the little bit I saw looks like 6 or 7 LLC for real estate holdings and various business interests. Money there it appears but again tangled in multiple LLC's. Probably on the beach enjoying the sun, a cold beer and a trophy girlfriend. So how is your day? Now where is my little tin knife?
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I don't have the link to the article anymore---maybe someone here has time to dig it up again....I'm sure it would be easier if we knew Dr. M's real name
 
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Looks like Doctor M heard that we're discussing his case.
Doctor M
from Clearwater

Doctor M was last seen:
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CetiAlphaFive said:
Looks like Doctor M heard that we're discussing his case.
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Well like they say innocent until proven guilty. Maybe he could weigh in on this talk. Probably none of it true or the wrong person. He could set the record straight and renew our faith in independent pharmacy and the integrity of pharmacists.
 
BenJammin said:
I hope he responds even though I know his attorney probably told him to keep quiet.
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As someone once said to Shoeless Joe Jackson "Say it ain't so Joe".
 
Old said:
I think you are being very modest here. In about 5 years since I have read your posts you and your partner have each made more than the other posters here can ever hope to earn in 3 or 4 lifetimes. In about 5 years! I remember the posts you had showing the inside of your store. The volume that you were able to do in such a small professional store is amazing. I am surprised that if you won't be the subject of an article in a professional business journal. It gives all the new pharmacists hope and a road map so that their professional career can also last a short period of time. Perhaps their wont be a large glut of unemployed pharmacists and some posters have said.
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Just curious....was this post sarcasm?

Old said:
Looking at his posts from several years ago makes you really wonder if 90% of them were fantasy. The extremely rapid growth and profit from a little hole in the wall store never made sense to me. If they were doing anywhere near that well you would think one of the partners would have some ethics and not do what they did. My guess is volume was never that much and c2 scripts were much higher than stated which would make the rapid rx growth more believable. All horse do-do to me. Never made sense.
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Dr. M's real name is easy to find online. However, it was abbreviated in the indictment of one of his peers. I would be far more concerned with the federal government dismantling life care brick by brick. The word "conspiracy" is used ALOT so they certainly have their suspicions and have learned of how the kick backs were structured and who was involved. Express scripts is just an additional thorn in the side. This will take a long time to hash out. The government has been prosecuting a ton of these cases lately.

In one sense I feel bad for the guy, but what bothers me is I read his posts and they inspired me to look down that path and consider doing something similar (minus the fraud). To come on here and gloat about his success while knowingly engaged in a possible conspiracy is outrageous and really annoys me. The allegations are you sold false hope to your customers, your business relations and even random posters online. I honestly hope thats not true. Innocent till proven guilty.

Im sure your reading...best of luck to you.
 
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Old said: ↑
I think you are being very modest here. In about 5 years since I have read your posts you and your partner have each made more than the other posters here can ever hope to earn in 3 or 4 lifetimes. In about 5 years! I remember the posts you had showing the inside of your store. The volume that you were able to do in such a small professional store is amazing. I am surprised that if you won't be the subject of an article in a professional business journal. It gives all the new pharmacists hope and a road map so that their professional career can also last a short period of time. Perhaps their wont be a large glut of unemployed pharmacists and some posters have said.
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Just curious....was this post sarcasm


Hmmm, Yes I would say it was. There is an old saying "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile" The meaning of which is that everybody gets lucky once in awhile. Whether its buying a run down independent store and improving it and selling for a profit or finding a piece of George Ohr pottery at a garage sale for 50 cents. However after 40 years working with a little tin knife and seeing pharmacies come and go with the ever changing retail climate you can tell the stories of their "unbelievable" success in such a short period of time with virtually no square feet of retail floor space was " Horse S*** on a stick". They were either delusional stories to satisfy some egotistical need, which I suspected, or their was fraud involved(which I didn't expect and they are not yet convicted of). If the compounding stuff was legit the chains would have controlled most or all of it with the profits involved. Oh , and if anybody in the Biloxi area finds a piece of George Ohr pottery for 50 cents I know where you can double your money.
 
StallionRx said:
Most likely he knew he needed to get out of the business because he was worried about getting caught.

Saw the indictment online...its not going to be pretty.
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Do you have a link? I'd love to read it
 
StallionRx said:
Just curious....was this post sarcasm?





Dr. M's real name is easy to find online. However, it was abbreviated in the indictment of one of his peers. I would be far more concerned with the federal government dismantling life care brick by brick. The word "conspiracy" is used ALOT so they certainly have their suspicions and have learned of how the kick backs were structured and who was involved. Express scripts is just an additional thorn in the side. This will take a long time to hash out. The government has been prosecuting a ton of these cases lately.

In one sense I feel bad for the guy, but what bothers me is I read his posts and they inspired me to look down that path and consider doing something similar (minus the fraud). To come on here and gloat about his success while knowingly engaged in a possible conspiracy is outrageous and really annoys me. The allegations are you sold false hope to your customers, your business relations and even random posters online. I honestly hope thats not true. Innocent till proven guilty.

Im sure your reading...best of luck to you.
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My current store does only 90 rxs ( no compounding) per day and if I worked it myself I'd make $210,000 per year between being the pharmacist ($127,500) and strictly the managing owner ($80,000). I have a PIC and I just manage the store from afar and cover vacations etc.

I've been looking at additional pharmacies to purchase and my goodness, I've discovered that LEGITIMATE compounding can make you a very good living on roughly 30 compounds per day.

Average price of rx in retail = $63 avg gross profit in retail = $12.

Average price of a rx in compounding =$92 average gross profit =$80

You can see how much more profitable compounding is and you DO NOT have to take insurance to still maintain a good business.


The difference is that compounding pharmacies will cost you another $65-90k in buildout expenses. Ideally you want to be in communities of 10,000 or more with a median income above $75k to have a vibrant compounding CASH business.
 
FYI there is a traditional retail pharmacy store for sale in pineland, TX. Not enough revenue there for me to pay a pharmacist AND pay myself to manage it but certainly enough for a working pharmacist to make $175k per year after you pay off your loan if you are PIC. It's been on the market for a few years and it's an older RPh who owns it and wants to retire.

If you need someone to help you get financing use
Mike Furlong. He is a loan broker and will work on your behalf to get the best terms for you and to get you approved. I've used him twice.

http://www.1stmedtransitions.com/buying-a-pharmacy
 
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BF7 said:
I've been looking at additional pharmacies to purchase and my goodness, I've discovered that LEGITIMATE compounding can make you a very good living on roughly 30 compounds per day.
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I doubt 30 compounds a day is a reasonable goal in any area. You will also find the number of people willing to pay cash for prescriptions is quite limited.
 
BidingMyTime said:
I doubt 30 compounds a day is a reasonable goal in any area. You will also find the number of people willing to pay cash for prescriptions is quite limited.
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Nah.
You'd be surprised what's out there.

There's a pharmacy in Austin that doesn't accept insurance at all. There's also a compounding pharmacy in New Braunfels that exclusively does cash compounds only and does quite well.
 
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I did a BMX and a protonix suspension yesterday. Total reimbursement less than $5 on each one. I really must be doing something wrong.
 
Ackj said:
I did a BMX and a protonix suspension yesterday. Total reimbursement less than $5 on each one. I really must be doing something wrong.
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Did you at least do any backflips or supermans?
 
BF7 said:
FYI there is a traditional retail pharmacy store for sale in pineland, TX. Not enough revenue there for me to pay a pharmacist AND pay myself to manage it but certainly enough for a working pharmacist to make $175k per year after you pay off your loan if you are PIC. It's been on the market for a few years and it's an older RPh who owns it and wants to retire.

If you need someone to help you get financing use
Mike Furlong. He is a loan broker and will work on your behalf to get the best terms for you and to get you approved. I've used him twice.

http://www.1stmedtransitions.com/buying-a-pharmacy
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What do you think about Live Oak Bank? I met them at the NCPA ownership workshop you told me to check out and I got mixed reactions from them. How do you manage more than 1 pharmacy? I don't see myself owning more than one....well, until I get the hang of it at first maybe.
 
BidingMyTime said:
I doubt 30 compounds a day is a reasonable goal in any area. You will also find the number of people willing to pay cash for prescriptions is quite limited.
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Yes, I think those areas where people are willing to pay only cash is like finding a 12 leaf clover. Probably out there somewhere but not very common. Although I am not in a wealthy area the families living on large trust funds tend to be the cheapest customers. Maybe just my area though. Billing insurance for compounds adds a little overall volume but hardly worth the time quite often. Then there are always the customers who want the compound but then change their mind for whatever reason. Always liked that.
 
BidingMyTime said:
I doubt 30 compounds a day is a reasonable goal in any area. You will also find the number of people willing to pay cash for prescriptions is quite limited.
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?? You need to get out from behind the chain drug store counter or out of the hospital basement.


There are compounding ONLY pharmacies doing 70+ compounds PER day .. I saw the financials for one that was for sale and they wanted $6.5 million. Too rich for my blood but your comment is 10 levels of ridiculous
 
BenJammin said:
By the way @BF7 do you think it's better to acquire an existing pharmacy or starting from scratch?
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I think it varies from situation to situation.

1) is it a fair selling price?

2) is there a high likelihood that a startup would come to town right after you buy an existing or is the area fairly isolated?

I think if you are in need of income immediately then buying an existing is the way to go. If you can get by on your spouses income or have multiple income streams then starting a pharmacy from scratch will likely have a higher payoff in the NEAR TERM ( roughly 5 years) as you won't have the large debt service that you'd have from buying an existing store.
 
BenJammin said:
What do you think about Live Oak Bank? I met them at the NCPA ownership workshop you told me to check out and I got mixed reactions from them. How do you manage more than 1 pharmacy? I don't see myself owning more than one....well, until I get the hang of it at first maybe.
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Liveoak was very aggressive with lending from 2009-2014. They started to pull back a bit in 2015 and are even diversifying THEIR lines of business by financing funeral parlors, hotels and other businesses that they previously didn't advertise for. You may be able to get local financing at a bank depending on the willingness of a loan officer and underwriters.
 
Here's a very successful compounding only pharmacy that is CASH only. Don't believe me? Call them.

http://drugcrafters.com/
 
BF7 said:
I think it varies from situation to situation.

1) is it a fair selling price?

2) is there a high likelihood that a startup would come to town right after you buy an existing or is the area fairly isolated?

I think if you are in need of income immediately then buying an existing is the way to go. If you can get by on your spouses income or have multiple income streams then starting a pharmacy from scratch will likely have a higher payoff in the NEAR TERM ( roughly 5 years) as you won't have the large debt service that you'd have from buying an existing store.
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Where is a good source of closed sale price of independent pharmacies? Been thinking of opening for a while. Maybe open one work a few years, sale? repeat
 
I googled this. One of the comments below an article has an interesting theory behind all of this:

"Here is the thing, Tricare is "managed" by a Pharmacy Benefits Manager(PBM) called Express Scripts (ESI) ESI third Q last year was a profit of $661 million on revenue of $25 Billion. ESI charged Tricare $200 for a Prior Authorization for almost every one of these creams prescribed and then approved these claims. ESI did this to make money and to set a trap for these unethical marketers, doctors and pharmacies. They then used these unethical types as a basis to cancel contracts on 90% of the compound pharmacies across the nation. They then mailed letters to all of the patients saying that they now had to use ESI's mail order pharmacy and that only pills would be reimbursed. No alternative pain relief would be reimbursed. These creams, done ethically, have been very successful in reducing pain with no side effects nor addiction. They are safe and effective and studies have been done to prove this. ESI and articles like this have done a great job of casting the entire industry as "snake oil" peddlers. Here is the kicker, these alternatives represent 1% of the market but growing because of the effectiveness of the creams. 1% of $25 billion for ESI's third Q is a lot! Not only is that a lot, ESI gets their own "kickback" for every pill prescribed. So just to recap; ESI approved these claims, then cry that they are too expensive. They use the unethical ones to cancel the vast majority of ethical business contracts so they can "steal" their patients to send to their own mail order pharmacy. They reimburse only addiction causing pain pills to get a kickback from Big Pharma and no where in the media are they even named. ESI and other PBM's like them are the main reason for opioid addiction in America. Unfortunately for you, sometime this year someone in your family will die from an opioid overdose. 22 Veterans die EVERY DAY from opioid overdose now that they have no other form of pain relief. The vets call PTSD ; Pharm Till Suicide or Death... Yes the people in this article are guilty, but don't be fooled we are all are being taken to the cleaners by these PBM's. These "middleman" add $214 Billion to our healthcare costs to process claims... Beware...."
 
Also, here is a cringeworthy video of Dr. M and his friends in a SharkTank/Wolf of Wallstreet mashup:


One of the articles says he paid 30k to have the video made.
 
Lexington2012 said:
Also, here is a cringeworthy video of Dr. M and his friends in a SharkTank/Wolf of Wallstreet mashup:


One of the articles says he paid 30k to have the video made.
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LOL.
While hilarious, I didn't see him in the video.
 
The story is from 2015; the car business does appear to still exist.
 
Lexington2012 said:
Also, here is a cringeworthy video of Dr. M and his friends in a SharkTank/Wolf of Wallstreet mashup:


One of the articles says he paid 30k to have the video made.
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"Raised by a pack of mountain lions since the age of 3, Jack McHammercock beat the odds by working 5 jobs while raising 6 kids. All while teaching himself to speak and write in English along the way. He leverages an aggressive grasp of business aggressiveness to become a local fast food mogul the likes the Florida panhandle has never seen."
 
BF7 said:
I wonder if we can get a Lamborghini he used to own for pennies on the dollar? Some very nice rides there..

https://www.instagram.com/mazexotics/
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Hm.... you bring up an interesting point.
I count no less than a dozen LLCs with his name stuck to them.

I wonder if and how much of that pilfered money got magically converted into Ferraris.

Would that offer Carlos any protection or just make it worse when the .gov hammer finally falls?
 
CetiAlphaFive said:
Hm.... you bring up an interesting point.
I count no less than a dozen LLCs with his name stuck to them.

I wonder if and how much of that pilfered money got magically converted into Ferraris.

Would that offer Carlos any protection or just make it worse when the .gov hammer finally falls?
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Wondered that myself. Express Scripts wasn't successful against the LLC on the first round. Saw all those LLC's, quite amazing. they may get away with it , assuming they are guilty at all. Quite a bit of real estate. Art gallery and who knows what else. Living large in Fl. I guess they did make 3 to 4 times what we earn in our lifetimes. Had posted that they sold the business. who would buy it for that kind of money? You could start your own similar business with almost no money vs millions paid to them. Don't know what happened to the partner. Hiding out maybe.
 
BF7 said:
I wonder if we can get a Lamborghini he used to own for pennies on the dollar? Some very nice rides there..

https://www.instagram.com/mazexotics/
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I have dibs on a 4x4 truck if there any of those. Ford f250 or 350 preferably but not fussy. To rural here for a Lamborghini . It would get lost in a pothole or you would have a deer in the passenger seat if you hit one since they are so low. Sticking with the 4x4 pickup.
 
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He sounds like a real prize (NOT!).
 
Old said:
I have dibs on a 4x4 truck if there any of those. Ford f250 or 350 preferably but not fussy. To rural here for a Lamborghini . It would get lost in a pothole or you would have a deer in the passenger seat if you hit one since they are so low. Sticking with the 4x4 pickup.
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What about this:


Seriously, how do we get in on the government auctions once they come in and seize all these cars?
 
pezdispenser said:
What about this:


Seriously, how do we get in on the government auctions once they come in and seize all these cars?
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I once saw a Maserati sell in a police auction for $19,000.

This was when I was a poor student.

I wept.
 
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owlegrad said:
Review of maz exotics by Mindy Nguyen

https://goo.gl/maps/JEAA756k12P2

Mindy gives out one star reviews pretty liberally though I will say.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile
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lmfao. This is approaching HICP levels of hilarity. All we need now is an old man with a golf cart and a bullhorn to drive by and tell everyone that he will make them all great.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
lmfao. This is approaching HICP levels of hilarity. All we need now is an old man with a golf cart and a bullhorn to drive by and tell everyone that he will make them all great.
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Will he be handing out red hats with white letters on it too?
 
CetiAlphaFive said:
I once saw a Maserati sell in a police auction for $19,000.

This was when I was a poor student.

I wept.
Click to expand...

I saw one turned in during the "Cash For Clunkers" thing a few years ago.

Regarding cash and compounding, if you do veterinary compounding, it can be done.
 
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