I'm going to chime in here too. I'm also a Penn Med student who has completed the internal medicine clerkship and despite it, decided to apply into medicine. (I don't know philly4343-- glad to see other penn med students use these forums).
Although I can't agree completely with every post that he (or she?) made in his post, a lot of it is unfortunately true. Attendings here do really have big heads and care more about stroking their egos more than taking care of patients.
Also, I have spoken to several residents who agree what philyl4343 said about the interns leaving, but not to the degree that he said it: the interns didnt "run for their lives" but rather disliked the program and decided to switch into different specialties because of it. One left for family reasons. But many residents here are really unhappy -- and have great reasons for it.
As I talk to my classmates now who are also applying into IM, we are all shocked that we weren't scared away by the malignant nature of Penn. In fact, if you ask ANY ANY med student here where they want to do their sub-i, all of them will tell you that the VA or the community hospital is a million times better than the one month hell you endure at HUP. I was unfortunate enough to do a hell sub-i at HUP where I (as a medical student, mind you), went over duty hours 3 of my 4 weeks there. Post call, we were supposed to leave by 12 noon, and I did not ONCE leave before 2pm, often staying until 3 (never later than 3:30). Moreover, regardless of what they say, they do NOT record your hours here. They may estimate them based on their goals of getting you out postcall by 12 noon, but it is not accurate. It's honestly ridiculous that 3 years after the work hour rules have been put in place, we still have not adapted.
The patient load at HUP is the same as all programs mandated by the ACGME, so don't be fooled by anyone telling you they take care of more than the ACGME limit --that would be illegal. The key difference at Penn is that the residents here ALWAYS hover around the maximum numbers on any given day. The patients are not waiting here for disposition issues, either -- you usually take care of 12, actively sick patients who need immediate attention. Every time I went into call, I had exactly the maximum number of patients such that I could admit 5 new patients and reach the cap (if I had more, we would redistribute so I could still admit 5 new patients and max out). Although we do obey the limits of the ACGME, Penn residents work like dogs taking care of their cap # of patients. This is very different than my girlfriend's medical school where some residents can have 2-3 patients going into call.
We also have a new non-teaching service that is run only by NPs and attendings (no residents). However, this non-teaching service was NOT made in response to maintaining the 80 hour/week rule. It was actually made after a hospital in the city, Graduate Hospital, closed its doors and sent enormous numbers of patients to HUP.
However, despite what Philly4343 said, things are not all horrible at Penn.. there are cheesesteaks right outside the hospital for only $3.50. haha, just kidding. There are definite ups at Penn, including how intelligent the residents are, the nurses seem to care about patient care a lot (at least the MICU ones -- the floor nurses are definitely hit or miss, but that's the same at every school). And also, I hear the program director is very nice, although I have never worked with her directly or indirectly, so that is only echoing what some residents told me.
As a side note, I saw a lot of negative comments about philly4343 -- it sucks that his/her posts went from being informative to immature and attacking. Please note that medical students and residents here are, for the most part, very mature and nice people. Don't discount what he/she said, but I apologize for his immaturity.
The nice thing about these forums is you can read the posts, and if you decide to come here, you will at least have some warning about it and not be shocked on your first day/month/year.
Sorry I don't check these forums very often, but I will try to check back now that I have posted here to answer any questions.
