Upenn or Pittsburgh? Please comment...

[Scientist1]

Hi,
I'm split between deciding to attend Upenn or Pitt. any suggestions? I'm interested in the OMFS specialty. I know both are good schools, but Penn probably has better reputation, and its more expensive. I don't know if its better education or not? maybe it'll be tougher to rank hight at Upenn compared to Pitt, but not sure? any comment in appreciated especially from students attending these schools.
thanks.

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[north2southOMFS]

Unless you want to go to OMFS residency in New york city where they actually care where you went to dental school, it doesn't really matter which dental school you go to. the more important thing is to do well while your in dental school.

Actually, now that i think about it why would you want to go to a school wehre everyone wants to specialize, it just creates gunners out of everyone, everyone vieing for the one great letter of rec from that certain proffessor, and everyone trying to be number one in their class. It nothing else, it makes it harder for you to be in the top ten in your class.....but who knows.

I'd go with the cheaper one.

 

[Scientist1]

good points...

 

[lnn2]

Unless you want to go to OMFS residency in New york city where they actually care where you went to dental school, it doesn't really matter which dental school you go to. the more important thing is to do well while your in dental school.

Actually, now that i think about it why would you want to go to a school wehre everyone wants to specialize, it just creates gunners out of everyone, everyone vieing for the one great letter of rec from that certain proffessor, and everyone trying to be number one in their class. It nothing else, it makes it harder for you to be in the top ten in your class.....but who knows.

I'd go with the cheaper one.

That's exactly what I thought! why would you want to go to a school where everyone wants to specialize? just making it harder for yourself.

2 out of 3 guys in my class were matched to their first choice OMFS. If TJB is around, he can chime in. In my class, it's easy to be in top percentile if you work hard. Those who want to specialize are at the top percentile and those who just want GP couldn't care less, "just want to pass". Not all of them are gunners.

One of the well known OMFS faculty is retiring this year. I personally like OS at Pitt. I enjoy the lectures, OS rotations and selective. At times the OS dept can be very intimidated. If you come in there clueless and make dumb mistakes, yeah, the whole world is going to know about it. But if you earn their trusts or credible then the experience is very enjoyable. I've learned a lot in OS. Pitt has a very good match rate into OMFS. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that Pitt is known to have a good clinical reputation.

One thing that I do not like is the cirriculum. It sucks @ss. Very unorganized for my class. Whenever a semester ends, we still have not received our schedule for the next semester until much later. They add, change classes at the last minute as they please. Important classes such as Gross, Neuro, Head, Neck anatomy classes were squeezed in a very short time, about 4-6wks per class. Classes such as Stats, Ethics....B.S classes were stressed out for the whole frigging semester! Another thing is they don't seem to care much about class board scores. Mandatory board review classes were a joke. They came up with the mandatory mock board exam 2 months before the actual exam. We had to pass it to take the actual exam. WTF. Most of us took that exam cold. So in short, you're pretty much on your own! Whatever you don't understand from class, you have to seek out books from the library or from other sources.

That's my opinion, take it with a couple grains of salt! If there's anything particular that you'd like to know about Pitt, PM me or feel free to post.

btw, 38K for out of state tuition.

One positive thing that I've seen recently is 2nd yr students are seeing screening patients now with helps from 4th yr students. That will benefit them once they start in the clinic.

 

[docs]

thanks, what year are you?

 

[Brutus0725]

Unless you want to go to OMFS residency in New york city where they actually care where you went to dental school, it doesn't really matter which dental school you go to. the more important thing is to do well while your in dental school.

Actually, now that i think about it why would you want to go to a school wehre everyone wants to specialize, it just creates gunners out of everyone, everyone vieing for the one great letter of rec from that certain proffessor, and everyone trying to be number one in their class. It nothing else, it makes it harder for you to be in the top ten in your class.....but who knows.

I'd go with the cheaper one.

Are you kidding??? Go to UPENN! Everyone doesn't want to specialize. But, the program does graduate specialist. We don't even class rank. So that doesn't matter. You will learn from people that are top in there profession and can help put you in places you need to go. It is not hard to do well at UPENN if you are dedicated to what you are doing. They prepare us very well for the boards and for postdoc training, why do you think we have such a high match rate? Last year 13 out of 14 when to OMFS. And one persone who didn't ended up postmatching at Harvard! This year 7 out of 8 matched for OMFS, and one one that didn't is an intern at an IVY dental school. To cheat your self trying to beat the system. I plan to do OMFS also, that is why I came here, because they respect the school reputation when they apply for postdoc spots!

To add to that, our program is extremly well organized. They don't play at PENN. You don't have to worry about it not being together.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Scientist1]

so, its not true that going to Upenn it'll be harder to rank higher in class than Pitt for example? i heard there is more stress and alot of gunners.... but not sure, its just what i hear and people keep telling me go to a easier school so you rank higher...

 

[lnn2]

thanks, what year are you?

4th yr

 

[uicd2]

board scores are definitely important, and the fact that Upenn has no class rank definitely takes a lot of stress of your back, so you can focus on boards and concentrate on actually learning in school instead of playing the stupid games that professors like to play.

i personally attend a school where i feel they purposely sabotaged the curriculum to make us fail the boards, and many of us DID! your school DOES make a difference, don't listen to all those people that say all dental schools are the same.

4th yr

 

[lnn2]

... But, the program does graduate specialist. ... You will learn from people that are top in there profession and can help put you in places you need to go....

I have to call B.S on those. Every school "does graduate specialist" not just U Penn. Since when U Penn is "top in there profession"?

... an intern at an IVY dental school.

this is dentistry, not medicine or law. "An intern at an IVY dental school" doesn't mean ****. The only exception I can think of is Harvard. Having a degree from Harvard in your office is impressive......to your patients because every regular joe knows about Harvard. But to your colleagues, so what?, it doesn't necessarily mean you're a better dentist!

... It is not hard to do well at UPENN if you are dedicated to what you are doing.

if you're dedicated then you can do well anywhere.

To cheat your self trying to beat the system.

Don't be naive. You are trying to beat the system whether you acknowledge it or not.

They prepare us very well for the boards. our program is extremly well organized. They don't play at PENN. You don't have to worry about it not being together

I assume that is true and you've already taken part I so you know what you're talking about. On that note, U Penn is better than Pitt. If this is what the OP's looking for then U Penn is a better choice for him/her.

 

[lnn2]

i personally attend a school where i feel they purposely sabotaged the curriculum to make us fail the boards, and many of us DID!

Hard to believe but I wonder if that's true! How can you expect us to do well with the board when we only have ONE week off before board and 10 final exams 2 weeks before board. I call that either bad curriculum planning or I- don't-give-a-****_that's-your-problem-You-have-to-figure-it-out-yourself plan.

 

[lnn2]

so, its not true that going to Upenn it'll be harder to rank higher in class than Pitt for example? i heard there is more stress and alot of gunners.... but not sure, its just what i hear and people keep telling me go to a easier school so you rank higher...

Dude, if you want to be an OMFS then you have to work hard for it. There isn't any short cut nor any other way around it. If you happen to find any then please let me know! I want in!
Harder vs easier to rank, harder school vs easier school are meaningless. Either way you still have to work your @ss off to get into OS program. If anyone thinks Pitt is an easy school, well, you'll find it out the hard way!

 

[Scientist1]

thanks for your comments, but i'm more confused now.....

 

[Wah]

thanks for your comments, but i'm more confused now.....

I'd rather live in philadelphia than pittsburgh for 4 years. But that's just me...

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Are you kidding??? Go to UPENN! Everyone doesn't want to specialize.

Well, thats what you think....many people keep their specialization desires inside, and at a school like UPENN, Im sure there are way more people who wanna specialize than you know.

And about the no class rank...Im gonna call BS on that one as well...just because they are not ranked by grades, every class still has to have some sort of rank. Even if its the Dean writing letters saying that your "honors, "high honors", or "very high honors", that is still considered ranking in my book.

The fact that Upenn isnt ranked should not even be a factor.....

Bout the OP's question...i think the choice is an easy one...Upitt! Upitt is a well respected school as well...a research powerhouse just as Penn is....but there is one difference....HELLUVA lot of money saved by going to Pitt. Goto Pitt, work hard, and use that money that you saved on something else.

 

[Scientist1]

by going to Upitt i would same about 40-50K in the 4 years. but in the long run does it really matter if i have 250K debt or 300K?
I know that Upitt is a good school as well, but i hear different things about it, some say the curriculum is not good, others say its one of the best and most organized. some say not much patients, others say is no worse than other schools..... anyways not sure still.... Upenn has the name, but does that matter.... is it tougher to get better grades at Upenn than at Upitt?

 

[lnn2]

by going to Upitt i would same about 40-50K in the 4 years. but in the long run does it really matter if i have 250K debt or 300K?

50k is a lot of moola! almost 5-6months of a newly grad's salary! It matters in the long run because you still have to pay it off. But comparing 250K to 300K, 50K seems insignificant! more confused now?!

I know that Upitt is a good school as well, but i hear different things about it, some say the curriculum is not good, others say its one of the best and most organized.

Upitt is a good school as well!
about "most organized"? It definitely was not for my class. For instance, we had Implant rotations and what they did was pop in a short, meaningless video tape about implant. We sat there and watched it like little kids, no instructors around. Either that or they make us do financial counseling for implant patients (b!tch works as some of us called it) Our class president had to bring that up with the Dean. I hope that things have improved since then!

some say not much patients, others say is no worse than other schools..... ?

That's not true. We have plenty of patients. The thing is it's just luck whether you can get good, motivated patients who want dental tx, showing up for their appointments. You will not have any problems completing your requirement IF you're assigned "quality" patients. I think that every school has that same problem.

anyways not sure still.... Upenn has the name, but does that matter.... is it tougher to get better grades at Upenn than at Upitt?

I can't really say it matters or not. Like I said, either Upenn or Upitt, you need to believe in yourself amd work very hard to get into OMFS program.
I would jot down a short list of pros and cons of each school, see what are the deciding factor for you, and go from there.
I'll help:
Upenn: -in Philly, more happening city!
-has the name, if you care, I don't
Upitt: -smaller city, less happening!
-cheaper tuition
-reputable OMFS program

 

[WestCoast]

U of Pitt has an awersome OMFS program. Solid and very well rounded. UPitt is a much stronger program than Upenn. Wasn't too impressed by UPenn. Something to think about.
Upenn: -in Philly, more happening city!
-has the name, if you care, I don't
Upitt: -smaller city, less happening!
-cheaper tuition
-reputable OMFS program[/QUOTE]

 

[delicious]

We don't even class rank. So that doesn't matter.

I think i've been told by two penn people that they actually do rank the top 15 students in each class. Stuck in my mind because it sounded weird.

I was pretty impressed by those OMFS match stats.

Um, but as for the OPs question. I'm knowledgeable in many areas, but not this one. Didn't even interview at either of them. However, I would say that I've been hearing very good things about UPitt recently, which sorta surprised me. But overall, if I had to choose right now, I'd prob go with Upenn. Good luck.

 

[Scientist1]

thanks for all the comments, may I please know who is actually attending or have attended Upitt or Upenn? what do you guys think about the comments above?

 

[toofache32]

This is incredible.

As an OMFS resident with 24+ residents in my program from every school in the country, I'll say this: there is no difference between any of us from different schools. We were all the same when we started...dumb as a brick. I'm the token redneck from U. of Tennessee and I still made a higher USMLE score than some guys from Columbia. It simply does not matter.

 

[Scientist1]

cool, thanks, any more comments...

 

[smang]

I was in your same situation and it took me awhile to make my decision. I know plenty of people have turned down Penn because they can't justify the cost, especially being in the basement for the first two years with 44k in tuition. I was reminded of a child labor factory or my tour, the place kind of lost its prestige. But then again I'm sure its part of the whole experience and might be the same at Pitt. I've read on past posts and have heard from friend that Penn doesn't have the best reputation in Philadelphia. Base your decision on what you saw on your tour and if you noticed any pain in the eyes of current students.
I’ve heard good things about Pitt especially with their Dean by talking to faculty and reading student posts. Apparently he is doing a lot to change the curriculum. Here is the vibe I got from a email from someone associated with the school- there is a real positive change in the air since Dr. Braun became the Dean. He places a high priority in the education of the students. With the new state of the art simulation clinic and a philosophical concept of comprehensive care, the student's cubicle is his/her "office", where most all aspects of treatment occurs ( exams,diagnosis,treatment planning, prophies, perio, restorative,prostho and endo ). As more dental schools stress over-inflated grades and teach to the Boards, this has become a norm in a number of schools and not learning how to function as a dentist, because grades seem to be most important to get into a grad program... Pitt never had any trouble getting the qualified students into programs in the past and on top of that, the students captured clinical leadership roles in most all the programs that they applied to, representing Pitt well.

 

[Brutus0725]

I have to call B.S on those. Every school "does graduate specialist" not just U Penn. Since when U Penn is "top in there profession"?
this is dentistry, not medicine or law. "An intern at an IVY dental school" doesn't mean ****. The only exception I can think of is Harvard. Having a degree from Harvard in your office is impressive......to your patients because every regular joe knows about Harvard. But to your colleagues, so what?, it doesn't necessarily mean you're a better dentist!
if you're dedicated then you can do well anywhere.

Don't be naive. You are trying to beat the system whether you acknowledge it or not.

I assume that is true and you've already taken part I so you know what you're talking about. On that note, U Penn is better than Pitt. If this is what the OP's looking for then U Penn is a better choice for him/her.

Don't be such a f*cking HATER!!!!!

Were do you go to school? They must have rejected you at PENN!!

I like my school! And I think it is the ****! How many people on this board can say they have spent over 2 years at 2 different dental schools????? I got a master first, taking class with the dental and medical students. When I was at a dental school in Texas and got excepted into UPENN, EVERY, LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN EVERY FAUCLTY MEMBER I ASKED, TOLD ME TO GOT TO UPENN!!! EVEN THE DEAN!!! YOU SCHOOL DOES MATTER!!

I didn't even know it was an IVY school until I interviewed. I am from the south and eveyone down south thinks I am talking about PENN State when I tell them were I go. I am just stating the facts.

When you go to any graduate program, it is not just about grades, its about reputation! That is even beond school, that is in real life. UPENN has a hell of a reputation.

And Harvard, the last 4 years (including this year match), UPENN has had a graduate enter there OMFS program..... Since you think so highly of Havard, it seems that they really thing highly of PENN.

Done!

 

[Brutus0725]

U of Pitt has an awersome OMFS program. Solid and very well rounded. UPitt is a much stronger program than Upenn. Wasn't too impressed by UPenn. Something to think about.
Upenn: -in Philly, more happening city!
-has the name, if you care, I don't
Upitt: -smaller city, less happening!
-cheaper tuition
-reputable OMFS program

[/QUOTE]


I like U of Pitt OMFS program also. I would love to go there, he asked about undergraduate. I have heard nothing but good things about, U of Pitt OMFS program. I know 2 people from UPENN that are in that program now.

 

[lnn2]

Were do you go to school? They must have rejected you at PENN!!

That's correct. They rejected me because I was...........OVER-QUALIFY!

Don't be such a f*cking HATER!!!!!
I like my school! And I think it is the ****! How many people on this board can say they have spent over 2 years at 2 different dental schools????? I got a master first, taking class with the dental and medical students. When I was at a dental school in Texas and got excepted into UPENN, EVERY, LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN EVERY FAUCLTY MEMBER I ASKED, TOLD ME TO GOT TO UPENN!!! EVEN THE DEAN!!! YOU SCHOOL DOES MATTER!!

I didn't even know it was an IVY school until I interviewed. I am from the south and eveyone down south thinks I am talking about PENN State when I tell them were I go. I am just stating the facts.

When you go to any graduate program, it is not just about grades, its about reputation! That is even beond school, that is in real life. UPENN has a hell of a reputation.

And Harvard, the last 4 years (including this year match), UPENN has had a graduate enter there OMFS program..... Since you think so highly of Havard, it seems that they really thing highly of PENN.

Done!

Easy there Grass hopper! Breath in, breath out!
Notice that I did not say anything bad about Upenn, just stating what I know from my personal experience! I'm sure Upenn has a good rep!
I don't think highly of Harvard. I just said that it's well known in the general public's opinion, med and law schools not dental school.

 

[Scientist1]

interesting comments, anything else on pitt Vs. Penn?