UPenn worth the $$$$

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firenzestar

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Hi fellow friends,

Whether you are considering applying to, have been accepted or currently attend UPenn - can you please comment on what you think about the price tag? After calculating the costs, it is nearing half a million dollars! Is it worth it? What does an extra 100k more than most public or state schools get you - ie: what advantage does it give you?

Do you think the price difference is justifiable - and affordable? I'd like to start a discussion especially among already graduated students and practicing dentists - it would be interesting to hear your opinions!
 
If you have a state school and have gotten accepted go to it. UPenn offers nothing worth 100k more.
 
firenzestar said:
Hi fellow friends,

Whether you are considering applying to, have been accepted or currently attend UPenn - can you please comment on what you think about the price tag? After calculating the costs, it is nearing half a million dollars! Is it worth it? What does an extra 100k more than most public or state schools get you - ie: what advantage does it give you?

Do you think the price difference is justifiable - and affordable? I'd like to start a discussion especially among already graduated students and practicing dentists - it would be interesting to hear your opinions!
Click to expand...

None of the ivies are worth their price tags. If you have a cheaper option, go with it. If you have no other options and are paying with loans, my suggestion would be to wait and apply again, but that's a more difficult decision to make.
 
Those that think it's worth it argue that the Ivy schools have a great name and that you are a shoe in to specialize.

My counter argument to that...

You can specialize from any school with hard work (people from every school specialize, every year). If you want to specialize, just work your ass off from day 1 - that's what it takes at any school. As for the name, if patients preferred going to dentists that went to Harvard, UPenn, and Columbia, then maybe it would be important. But, no patients do that, and 99% of them will never know where you went to dental school. So it doesn't matter. Cheaper is always better.

Don't buy in to the propaganda. Trust me, you don't want to pay back over 400 THOUSAND dollars at a heavy interest rate. You'll pay back almost double this over the length of the loan. Even on a dentist's income, this is 100 hundred percent ludicrous.
 
And that is why you seek out scholarship opportunities so that you don't have to wonder "what if"?
 
squigloo said:
None of the ivies are worth their price tags. If you have a cheaper option, go with it. If you have no other options and are paying with loans, my suggestion would be to wait and apply again, but that's a more difficult decision to make.
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I would say to go if you have nee other option. There's always the possibility that you'll get rejected next cycle and the lost income is a lot to ignore.
 
Combine33 said:
I would say to go if you have nee other option. There's always the possibility that you'll get rejected next cycle and the lost income is a lot to ignore.
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...or you could lie to yourself and say that lost year is actually a year off 😀
 
squigloo said:
Almost all schools are amazing. Not all schools put you 410k in the hole.
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I wouldn't suggest someone to hold off an entire year to reapply. That one year lost is a pretty big opportunity cost in potential earning income. IBR is a great option for those carrying large debt after graduation.
 
Well, I am personally choosing to attend UPenn over other schools because it offers what I want out of a dental school, and I think that getting a hefty scholarship from them helps. The scholarship makes the school more affordable and to me, worth it, even if it is still more expensive than other schools even with the scholarship. If you really want to attend a pricey institution, search for service commitment scholarships. These service commitments are excellent opportunities to expand your dental skills after graduation as well.
 
bobcostas01 said:
UPenn is an amazing school.

If you're concerned about paying back your student loans, take this into consideration:
http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based
Click to expand...
bobcostas01 said:
I wouldn't suggest someone to hold off an entire year to reapply. That one year lost is a pretty big opportunity cost in potential earning income. IBR is a great option for those carrying large debt after graduation.
Click to expand...

Have you read the fine print? Forgiven loans are taxed....
 
Everyone who received an acceptance to UPenn, I would strongly urge that you attend UPenn even if you have cheaper state schools available. $400k isn't that much money in terms of debt. Besides it is worth it to pay $400k. You will get "connections" that are very important, if you attend UPenn. Furthermore, I have heard on SDN that UPenn can 'increase chances of getting into specialties'. I personally heard that all the orthodontist residencies directors and Oral Surgery residencies directors have a preference for UPenn grads, because they are just so wowed by the UPenn name. Once you get into that Ortho/OMFS residency, you can go set up practice in California (where it is not too saturated) and start making bank (I'm talking $500k/yr). So if you have 400k in debt from UPenn, just go to California for a year and you will make $500k, and then you won't have any debt. It is seriously that simple. :biglove: Plus the weather in California is great and all the hot girls will be wowed by your large bank account and the UPenn name. 👍

If you have been accepted to UPenn and if you have been accepted to a state school that also is OOS friendly, withdraw your app from your state school and immediately pay your deposit for UPenn. Paying the deposit at UPenn earlier can increase chances they will like you which could help increase chances you get a good letter of rec for Ortho/OMFS residency.

Lastly, don't listen to sgv. I met this one dentist that makes $2million a year. 👍
 
lwen5 said:
Everyone who received an acceptance to UPenn, I would strongly urge that you attend UPenn even if you have cheaper state schools available. $400k isn't that much money in terms of debt. Besides it is worth it to pay $400k. You will get "connections" that are very important, if you attend UPenn. Furthermore, I have heard on SDN that UPenn can 'increase chances of getting into specialties'. I personally heard that all the orthodontist residencies directors and Oral Surgery residencies directors have a preference for UPenn grads, because they are just so wowed by the UPenn name. Once you get into that Ortho/OMFS residency, you can go set up practice in California (where it is not too saturated) and start making bank (I'm talking $500k/yr). So if you have 400k in debt from UPenn, just go to California for a year and you will make $500k, and then you won't have any debt. It is seriously that simple. :biglove: Plus the weather in California is great and all the hot girls will be wowed by your large bank account and the UPenn name. 👍

If you have been accepted to UPenn and if you have been accepted to a state school that also is OOS friendly, withdraw your app from your state school and immediately pay your deposit for UPenn. Paying the deposit at UPenn earlier can increase chances they will like you which could help increase chances you get a good letter of rec for Ortho/OMFS residency.

Lastly, don't listen to sgv. I met this one dentist that makes $2million a year. 👍
Click to expand...

You forgot the /sarcasm at the end.
SDNers are quite the gullible folks ya know lol
 
lwen5 said:
Everyone who received an acceptance to UPenn, I would strongly urge that you attend UPenn even if you have cheaper state schools available. $400k isn't that much money in terms of debt. Besides it is worth it to pay $400k. You will get "connections" that are very important, if you attend UPenn. Furthermore, I have heard on SDN that UPenn can 'increase chances of getting into specialties'. I personally heard that all the orthodontist residencies directors and Oral Surgery residencies directors have a preference for UPenn grads, because they are just so wowed by the UPenn name. Once you get into that Ortho/OMFS residency, you can go set up practice in California (where it is not too saturated) and start making bank (I'm talking $500k/yr). So if you have 400k in debt from UPenn, just go to California for a year and you will make $500k, and then you won't have any debt. It is seriously that simple. :biglove: Plus the weather in California is great and all the hot girls will be wowed by your large bank account and the UPenn name. 👍

If you have been accepted to UPenn and if you have been accepted to a state school that also is OOS friendly, withdraw your app from your state school and immediately pay your deposit for UPenn. Paying the deposit at UPenn earlier can increase chances they will like you which could help increase chances you get a good letter of rec for Ortho/OMFS residency.

Lastly, don't listen to sgv. I met this one dentist that makes $2million a year. 👍
Click to expand...

Is it true that orthodontists don't have to do any work and take home $500,000 a year?????
 
squigloo said:
Is it true that orthodontists don't have to do any work and take home $500,000 a year?????
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Yes, but $500k is on the low end. If you work harder, expect $750k and if you work really hard, you are pretty much guaranteed above $1 million. How do you think all those older orthodontists have such nice offices? It has nothing to do with the amount of 'debt' they had when they graduated, as sgv and other 'alarmists' might have you believe. If you got into UPenn for dental school, you are smarter and harder working than those orthodontists who went to "less prestigious, state" schools and that is why you shouldn't pay attention to those orthodontists who are struggling. . If you go to Columbia dental, your chance of getting into OMFS goes up even more. You can also do a cosmetic surgery fellowship (again they give special preference to UPenn grads) and then be a celebrity plastic surgeon which will mean even more dough and more hot girls. 🙄

No one should be debating whether to go to UPenn or not. They should be debating as to where in California (or NYC) they want to practice. Once you get into UPenn, you can go practice in Beverly Hills/NYC and make bank. I met this one dentist who did exactly that.

Run, don't walk to UPenn. 👍
 
How about Upenn + Dean's Merit ($70k per year) vs. state schools ($65k per year?)
 
clubwestpua said:
How about Upenn + Dean's Merit ($70k per year) vs. state schools ($65k per year?)
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in that case, go wherever makes you happy. It's a small difference in change.
 
gn4 said:
in that case, go wherever makes you happy. It's a small difference in change.
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in your case, you would go to Baylor unless you have a compelling reason to go to Columbia. congrats on Baylor! applied there and no news. envy you!
 
clubwestpua said:
in your case, you would go to Baylor unless you have a compelling reason to go to Columbia. congrats on Baylor! applied there and no news. envy you!
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Haha. Yea, that's where I will be going. Unless something drastic with fiancee's school choices happen in the next couple of months.
 
squigloo said:
None of the ivies are worth their price tags. If you have a cheaper option, go with it. If you have no other options and are paying with loans, my suggestion would be to wait and apply again, but that's a more difficult decision to make.
Click to expand...

would like to know if its worth it to go to an expensive ivy league (UPenn, Columbia, Harvard) over some less expensive
private schools like Western, UoP, Detroit Mercy, BU etc
 
unless you are deep in a hole of good **** that you cant make out of anything aka debt.
 
I liked UPenn at the interview but I couldn't justify paying 200k more than my state school to go there. I had no idea it was an ivy league when I applied.
 
even between private schools I would still choose the cheapest, so if you got into Detroit and Penn, go to whichever is cheapest.
 
This is one of the greatest debates in the pre-dental world: is it worth it to pay more money to go to an ivy?

Going to an ivy confers one major advantage: the chances of you getting into a specialty drastically increases compared to most other schools (I would exclude uconn, ucsf. There are probably other non ivy schools with high specialty rates but I don't know them.). Most non ivy schools have specialty rates around 15-20% per class. For ivies, it's 50% or more. So for most non ivy schools, you need to be at nearly the top of the class, whereas for ivies you don't need to at all.
Dentists who have specialized tend to make a considerable amount more than a dentist who did not specialize, on average (obviously there are exclusions).

So by going to an ivy, you might be paying more initially, but your chances of getting into a specialty greatly increases. Over the long run, because you make a lot more money because you specialized, you end up getting a good return on the investment.

Now I know everyone makes the argument, well you can still specialize coming from non ivy schools. Sure that is true but you are taking a legitimate risk. You don't know how you will do in dental school -- you haven't experienced it yet! As an example, let's say you go to your state school over an ivy and you come in wanting to speicalize. Unexpectedly, you struggle in dental school and are nowhere near top 10-15% of your class. Sure you saved money by going to your state school, but now your dreams of specializing are now in serious jeopardy. With being in an ivy, the chances of you specializing are much greater so the risk of not specializing considerably decreases.

If you are dead set or almost sure of specializing, going to an ivy is worth the extra money in most cases.

Now if you are a pre dent who doesn't want to specialize and wants to be a dentist, then don't go to an ivy. You will get an equal or even better education at your state school and have much less debt.

If you are one of those people who are unsure of specializing, the decision becomes very tough. I am not here to tell you what to do. In my opinion, I'd still take the ivy to keep the door open but everyone is different.

Anyway this is my 2 cents on everything not trying to be a hater on non ivies or anything. Curious to what you all think
 
like what the above said,

but given that if you perform badly in state school, what would you think will make you perform top 50-60% of the ivy classes, which contains on average better students?

specialization is not guaranteed in any cases. yea ivy league schools dramatically increase likelihood of specialization while state school does not.

however, debt is guaranteed.
 
tyjacobs said:
This is one of the greatest debates in the pre-dental world: is it worth it to pay more money to go to an ivy?

Going to an ivy confers one major advantage: the chances of you getting into a specialty drastically increases compared to most other schools (I would exclude uconn, ucsf. There are probably other non ivy schools with high specialty rates but I don't know them.). Most non ivy schools have specialty rates around 15-20% per class. For ivies, it's 50% or more. So for most non ivy schools, you need to be at nearly the top of the class, whereas for ivies you don't need to at all.
Dentists who have specialized tend to make a considerable amount more than a dentist who did not specialize, on average (obviously there are exclusions).

So by going to an ivy, you might be paying more initially, but your chances of getting into a specialty greatly increases. Over the long run, because you make a lot more money because you specialized, you end up getting a good return on the investment.

Now I know everyone makes the argument, well you can still specialize coming from non ivy schools. Sure that is true but you are taking a legitimate risk. You don't know how you will do in dental school -- you haven't experienced it yet! As an example, let's say you go to your state school over an ivy and you come in wanting to speicalize. Unexpectedly, you struggle in dental school and are nowhere near top 10-15% of your class. Sure you saved money by going to your state school, but now your dreams of specializing are now in serious jeopardy. With being in an ivy, the chances of you specializing are much greater so the risk of not specializing considerably decreases.

If you are dead set or almost sure of specializing, going to an ivy is worth the extra money in most cases.

Now if you are a pre dent who doesn't want to specialize and wants to be a dentist, then don't go to an ivy. You will get an equal or even better education at your state school and have much less debt.

If you are one of those people who are unsure of specializing, the decision becomes very tough. I am not here to tell you what to do. In my opinion, I'd still take the ivy to keep the door open but everyone is different.

Anyway this is my 2 cents on everything not trying to be a hater on non ivies or anything. Curious to what you all think
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with this but I would like to add that it goes both way.

Say you go to an ivy league and find that you can't keep up with that top 50% or you realize you don't want to specialize, now you're in more debt than most all other
general dentists (exception of USC and NYU grads). For UPenn, the class size is 120, so 60 of those students won't specialize...... thats basically the entire class size of many
other schools like Case or UConn for example.

Because of this I believe that going to a cheaper non ivy school (even cheaper private schools) is a safer option overall.
 
Last edited:
Theres also the chicken and egg argument of whether its actually easier to specialize going to an ivy league or if the rates are just higher because higher caliber students are the ones who go there in the first place.
 
Dent5291 said:
Theres also the chicken and egg argument of whether its actually easier to specialize going to an ivy league or if the rates are just higher because higher caliber students are the ones who go there in the first place.
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Or students who do not want to specialize will avoid those schools, regardless of caliber
 
Harvard is pass fail (no rank?)
Columbia is honors pass fail (rank in thirds I think)
UPenn doesn't rank past the top 10

So in all honesty the "competing against smarter kids" argument doesn't make much sense. These schools purposely try to remove the competition. You don't see non ivy schools do this except uconn. (Is ucsf pass fail?)

Also, not every ivy student wants to speicalize. With columbia, 9/9 got into omfs, 9/10 got into ortho, and 8/12 got into ped this past yr (I got data from columbia thread). I bet you see similar numbers from the other 2 schools. So this also debunks "you need to finish in top 50%" because not everyone actually applies to a specialty in the first place.

In addition, all 3 schools offer DDS/MBA dual degree opportunities. I know that other schools do it and not everyone is interested in it, but for those who are, getting an MBA from one of these schools is a big deal.
 
lwen5 said:
Everyone who received an acceptance to UPenn, I would strongly urge that you attend UPenn even if you have cheaper state schools available. $400k isn't that much money in terms of debt. Besides it is worth it to pay $400k. You will get "connections" that are very important, if you attend UPenn. Furthermore, I have heard on SDN that UPenn can 'increase chances of getting into specialties'. I personally heard that all the orthodontist residencies directors and Oral Surgery residencies directors have a preference for UPenn grads, because they are just so wowed by the UPenn name. Once you get into that Ortho/OMFS residency, you can go set up practice in California (where it is not too saturated) and start making bank (I'm talking $500k/yr). So if you have 400k in debt from UPenn, just go to California for a year and you will make $500k, and then you won't have any debt. It is seriously that simple. :biglove: Plus the weather in California is great and all the hot girls will be wowed by your large bank account and the UPenn name. 👍

If you have been accepted to UPenn and if you have been accepted to a state school that also is OOS friendly, withdraw your app from your state school and immediately pay your deposit for UPenn. Paying the deposit at UPenn earlier can increase chances they will like you which could help increase chances you get a good letter of rec for Ortho/OMFS residency.

Lastly, don't listen to sgv. I met this one dentist that makes $2million a year. 👍
Click to expand...

lel
 
Go, just so everyone around you could go like "Woah!!"
 
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