Urgent/critical care position available directly out of school?

[ColoradoDVM]

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Is it realistic to hope for a urgent care/ critical care postion directly out of vet school? Are most of these opportunities only made available as internships? Are these internships more competitive than some of the other areas of specialty?
Thanks for any input!

 

[natelam]

Are you talking about working as an ER doc or an ECC residency program?

I think depending on your area, and it's saturation with intern trained and experienced veterinarian, it is definitely possible to get a position as an ER DVM right out of school. However, if you are looking at locations with high saturation of vets with post-DVM education...then pickings may be slim as these are highly competitive and high paying jobs that new grads will be fighting for.

 

[Jochebed]

gone

 

[ColoradoDVM]

Many emergency practices also prefer someone with experience first. There's steep learning curve that first year out...expecting to do that learning in a solely emergency practice? Not something I'd be up for.

I know, that's why I think if someone was specifically interested in ER/CC, an internship would be needed. Hope I can be competitive enough when the time comes 🙂

 

[ColoradoDVM]

Are you talking about working as an ER doc or an ECC residency program?

In a perfect world with no bills and no school loans, would rather do an internship, but I am not sure finances will allow it. That's why I wondered about working as an ER doc right out of school.

 

[VeganSoprano]

You technically can do it, but I can't say I'd recommend it. There is a *huge* learning curve right out of school. I work as an E/CC tech and consider myself to be very good at my job, but even with the level of experience I've had there is still no way I'd want to fly solo as a DVM in the ER or ICU without an internship under my belt. You just can't get clinical expertise without clinical experience. You learn the science of medicine in school but you learn the art by practicing. Both are equally important and there are no shortcuts. I've worked with lots of interns and I can definitely say that they're clinicians on training wheels for several months - and that's with a workload and level of support that comes with a good internship. The curve would be even steeper as an ER clinician outside of an internship. And remember that your learning curve can cost clients lots of money and can easily cost patients their lives. The support of an internship is so crucial, for your development but also for your clients and patients.

If you definitely don't want to do an internship, a few years in general practice would probably be the next best way to gain clinical experience. But the norm seems to be to consider an internship equal to as much as 5 years of general practice experience. If you want to work in an emergency setting, it's hard to justify not doing an internship. No one is a good doctor the day s/he graduates. S/he is a potentially good doctor. Realizing that potential is the next step.

 

[CookieBear]

Are you talking about working as an ER doc or an ECC residency program?

In a perfect world with no bills and no school loans, would rather do an internship, but I am not sure finances will allow it. That's why I wondered about working as an ER doc right out of school.

I think you could do it without an internship, but you should seek an emergency practice where you would be with 2+ more experienced, skilled and passionate veterinarian(s) (ideal=board certified) willing/able to mentor you. You don't want to be by yourself with 1 tech at 2 AM with your first GDV or a spleen that needs to come out.

If it's a progressive high-quality practice with some key tools useful to ER (good diagnostic equipment), skilled/trained/experienced tech(s), and again, early mentorship, it could be a great opportunity.

Just don't get stuck in that, Hey you've been out 3 months, now you're good to handle overnights [alone]!

IMO, it's the caseload/mentoring and experiences you'll get. I don't necessarily think that all internships will equate to 3 or 5 years experience. I've seen some interns that did 1 year at XYZ place, and they are GREAT and I've seen others that, I'd rather have the 3-5 year-experienced-grad-no-internship. It really depends on where you are, doing what, and with who, and your own level of committment to learning and improving.

 

[alliecat44]

+1 to everyone, especially Cookie and VeganSoprano. I also worked as an ER/CC tech for 4 years and as a specialty tech for 6 years prior to vet school and have worked with 50+ interns (new grads) over the course of my career. There is no way you can fly solo as an ER doc right out of school IMHO and to be honest, it would be asking for burn-out to try. In addition to medicine you have to be EFFICIENT, able to prioritize, manage a tech/assistant staff, deal with the most difficult clients in their most stressed-out moments, etc etc...Just about impossible to do WELL (read: not get fired/sued/cost the practice loads of $$) right out of school without extensive mentorship.

There are some practices who are willing/able to have that heavy-duty mentorship and make sure that you're double-staffed with doctors on all your shifts for the first six months to a year--but many more who don't have that kind of $$ and would either a) throw you to the wolves (and burn out ensues!) or look for someone with experience.

One GREAT alternative is to work in day practice during the week and moonlight at the ER one day a week. Usually weekends are really busy and a lot of practices will let you shadow their ER docs. Some will even pay you for working 1 shift a week with all the other doctors who are there on the weekends so you get experience and a foot in the door. Most day practices don't have a big issue with this because it's not technically "competition"--the ER isn't seeing clients that you would be seeing at your normal practice--but definitely talk to your boss. Lots of people have done that and then started working 50/50 at both places and eventually made the transition--seems to be a great move.

 

[Electrophile]

Particularly if you're in a relatively rural area, you may have emergency on call hours whether you want to or not. You'll get your experience in there for sure. Although one of the doctors at the practice I just got done doing an external rotation at today started at an emergency clinic right out of school back in 2002, so I suppose it can be done. I despise emergency work, so no thanks! 😀

 

[Bill59]

I agree with everyone else. There are 2 jobs you don't want right out of school -- practice owner and emergency doctor. Those are just not suited for a new grad in my opinion.

The after-hours hospital business is booming right now so I don't doubt you could find a job somewhere as a new grad. I just think it's a bad idea.

There are a lot of emergency/critical care internships so if possible that would be a better option I think (but keep in mind emergency medicine and critical care are entirely different things).

 

[natelam]

There's one thing to keep in mind though - a lot of internships (even the good ones) are primarily ER work as the primary doctor on. The difference is that you can usually call someone if you're in trouble (or not), and in the morning someone will yell at you and tell you what you did wrong.

That being said, if you can gain this same experience, but make 3-5x as much...and you don't want to specialize eventually - why the heck not? Go for it!

This is coming from a current University trained intern, who is going into a surgery residency next year.

 

[ColoradoDVM]

thanks for the input and ideas.
I have time to sort i out but like to plan ahead. I volunteer/shadow in ER/CC and can see myself in this area of vet med. I have also always preferred working nights/weekends rather than weekdays so hours are just icing on the cake.