URGENT!!! Help me decide!

[Lightmare]

Hello,

I applied in the 2019-2020 cycle and am literally starting classes at the D.O. school I was accepted to, tomorrow.

Long story short, the dean of my top choice school that I interviewed at (M.D. program) just called me and said that the school is offering me a seat in a master's program. I would be taking classes with the first year students and have to just maintain good grades to get an automatic acceptance the following year to start at the medical school as a first-year student.

The dean told me that with a scholarship the program would only cost around $4k (not including housing) and their tuition (once I start next year as a first-year) is much lower than my D.O. school.

If I accept by tomorrow (the deadline) I have to move all my **** out of my current place and probably move into their housing ASAP, as their classes start next week.

What scares me is that I will be a physician a year later and also be losing that year of physician salary. Plus, I feel like nothing is 100% guaranteed admission like what I have now with my D.O. program that I am already in and I will be graduating in a year later, in 2025.

But I feel like I would graduate less in debt, wouldn't have to learn extra things that D.O.'s learn (like OMM), and wouldn't have to take 2 sets of extra board exams.

SDN, what should I do?

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[zeddd78893]

Can you explain the criteria for automatic acceptance? Just want to gauge if it truly is guaranteed admission to an MD program

 

[Lightmare]

Can you explain the criteria for automatic acceptance? Just want to gauge if it truly is guaranteed admission to an MD program

Sure, she said as long as I maintain a B grade point or something along those lines (although the school is P/F, so not sure how that exactly pans out), I get an automatic acceptance. She said the program is in it's 4th year now and that for example, 14/16 people matriculated last year (88% success).

 

[zeddd78893]

Personally I would take the extra year to go MD but it depends on your goals. Do you want to do primary care? MD could set you up for more specialties.

 

[BoneWizard]

What are your interests in as a specialty?
How different would the tuition be?
Are you willing to gamble on making the cut?

 

[Lightmare]

What are your interests in as a specialty?
How different would the tuition be?
Are you willing to gamble on making the cut?

1. Not entirely too sure, I was just going to decide closer to when I start rotations, but I definitely feel like I would want to specialize and not just do family medicine.

2. D.O. school has a tuition of ~$65k while M.D. is about ~$45k.

3. I am not entirely too sure

I'm honestly torn at the moment.

 

[BoneWizard]

Since you are unsure I would heavily recommend trying to go the MD route first especially given the difference in tuition and recent Step 1 changes.
You would also save ~$100k going to the MD after loan fees and interest is taken into account.

 

[afib_ace]

Would this happen to be at a certain New York school? If so, I just finished that program and yes, would definitely recommend.

 

[Lightmare]

If you were reasonably satisfied with the DO school you were planning on going to, just stick with it IMO.
-A bird in the hand blah blah blah. If this is one of those situations where you're taking basically the first year classes along with the M1s, maintaining a B average is HARD. I certainly barely scraped a B average in my first year and I worked my butt off.
-Completely relocating your life in the next week sounds like an absolute nightmare, both logistically and financially, and I know if I were in that position I would not feel settled in and set up for success in the new location for at least a few weeks into the first class
-Unless there's an enormous COA differential, as you pointed out the lost year of attending physician salary would probably even out the debt difference. (ETA: just saw that the difference is $20k per year...more than compensated by the additional year of salary)
-Especially with the residency merger, DOs are becoming better and better represented even in competitive specialties if that's even your goal. Even more true if you're willing to live in DO-friendly regions. I suspect the gap between the two specialties at the residency application level will continue to become smaller, and you won't be applying to residency for a few years yet.

It's not far from each other, but the CoL would be higher at the M.D. school just a bit more.

And that's true about D.O.s. I just don't want a lot of doors closed in my face, especially it's a hard field that I want, but that I would see myself enjoy practicing.

I just called her again to confirm, and basically, there's 6 courses that I must take from now until April/May. 4 are core med school classes I take with the first years and the other 2 are ones I take with the other Master's students. I must maintain an overall B average entirely to matriculate. Meaning if I get like 1-2 C's, I may be done for and will end up with nothing.

She did say that in the 3-4 years since this program, 99.9% of people have matriculated and this is the first year people actually obtain a Master's degree in physiology and that the tuition for the program is eligible to be paid by Federal Aid.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Would this happen to be at a certain New York school? If so, I just finished that program and yes, would definitely recommend.

If the classes are P/F, how does one maintain a B average in them?

How strong a premed student were you? And how hard was it to maintain the required GPA in your masters classes?

 

[Lightmare]

If the classes are P/F, how does one maintain a B average in them?

How strong a premed student were you? And how hard was it to maintain the required GPA in your masters classes?

I guess for master's they grade it, rather than go off a P/F scale.

I wasn't strong at all, my GPA was low, but it's also because my life hasn't been the easiest, but I am by no means a genius.

EDIT: I never got a master's. This program will give me a master's + and M.D. 5 years total.

 

[KeViN2502]

I will go for the MD

 

[FluteDog]

Whichever choice you choose, you'll always be wondering "what if". Follow your heart. You will make whatever you choose the right choice by making the best of it.

 

[Blueprint Med School]

Do the master's. MD opens up so many doors and the opportunity cost of losing 1 year as an attending is far outweighed by what can be opened up to you by having an MD. Not to mention saving the 100k in tuition.

Kevin W, MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[Osminog]

Doing the master’s program would obviously be a gamble given that you have a weak academic background and that schools are making various experimental changes to their curricula in light of the pandemic. Going to a DO school definitely closes some doors when it comes to residencies and specialties... but doing poorly in a master’s program can close the door to becoming a physician altogether.

I might just be a risk-averse person, but if I were in your situation, I’d go to the DO school.

 

[Lightmare]

Relocating on such short notice still sounds like a nightmare to me, even if it's just across a city, but I am a Plan Very Far Ahead type of person.

Re: career opportunities - if you're at the school I think you're at based on your post history, looking at their match list for the last few years, they do have some matches in fields that are traditionally unfriendly to DOs. And bear in mind that an MD does not guarantee you access to those hard fields either - you truly have to be at the top of your class, and someone with your academic history will rarely meet that standard (no judgment, I certainly wasn't a superstar). Of course, who knows how this will change in light of P/F step 1.

"tuition for the program is eligible to be paid by federal aid" - what does that mean? Student loans are technically "federal aid." How much is the tuition actually? And have you been officially offered the scholarship you mentioned in your OP?



Obviously this may vary from school to school, but you usually still get a percentage/score at P/F schools. E.g. you would know that you got an 82% on your endocrine final, but it's marked on your transcript sent to residencies as just "pass." I would imagine it's based on that.

Yeah, it is that school. Their match list has been getting more and more impressive by the year. Tuition for what? The master's? It's 11k, but she said if I am eligible for the scholarship (which I do not know of as of right now, since the FA office is closed), I could get $600/month, which basically means I will have to either pay out of pocket or use loans to pay off $4k just in tuition. Not sure if I am eligible for the scholarship as of now though.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Go for M.D. option unless you got into D.O. due to poor GPA and not 100% sure about maintaining B average. However 86% conversation rate means program knows what type of students to target.

 

[Lightmare]

Yes, sorry, tuition for the master's. Okay, so in that case I would bank on the assumption that it's going to be $11k in tuition + cost of living + ???? for books, fees, etc....accruing interest over a period of at least five years (master's + med school), if not longer while you're a resident as well, not to mention the lost year of attending income (at least $200k), vs. about $100k additional tuition + interest if you stay at your DO school. Financially, I would say sticking with DO is smarter in the long run, although obviously that's not the only consideration.

Right now, my heart is definitely leaning more towards the D.O. school, because it's right in my hands. Sure, I am probably capable of passing with that B for the M.D. program and there is a high 90% something matriculation rate, but then again, it's not 100% and nothing is guaranteed...I could either play it safe and go D.O., or attempt to go M.D., and lose everything if I don't do well. Know what I'm sayin'?

 

[Lightmare]

Go for M.D. option unless you got into D.O. due to poor GPA and not 100% sure about maintaining B average. However 86% conversation rate means program knows what type of students to target.

Yeah, I did have a poor GPA, and had to re-take my MCAT due to a lower score the first time.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yeah, I did have a poor GPA, and had to re-take my MCAT due to a lower score the first time.

Did you have big upward trend i.e. your last two years GPA is much higher than first two years? Also, did you go to a competitive UG?

 

[Lightmare]

Did you have big upward trend i.e. your last two years GPA is much higher than first two years? Also, did you go to a competitive UG?

Yes. I had a parabola graph for my GPA during the 4 years. Started off decent, then sunk, then picked myself up and got 4.0 during my last 2 semesters (senior year). And no, didn't go to a competitive UG.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yes. I had a parabola graph for my GPA during the 4 years. Started off decent, then sunk, then picked myself up and got 4.0 during my last 2 semesters (senior year). And no, didn't go to a competitive UG.

Does those 4.0s include mostly higher level science classes?

 

[Lightmare]

Does those 4.0s include mostly higher level science classes?

Umm, microbio, cognitive neurosci, and neurobio, and advanced cognitive between those 2 semesters.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Umm, microbio, cognitive neurosci, and neurobio, and advanced cognitive between those 2 semesters.

Given that I believe you can survive the masters program. If you are a bit of risk taker, go for MD, but if you think this will cause lot of stress, stick to D.O. btw, I am not an adcom, just a parent who has keen interest in education.

 

[strawberrycake]

No I would stay DO there is no guarantee med classes Are hard and maintaining B level is every difficult and you are already accepted

 

[Lightmare]

Choose MD option. Especially given P/F boards, you will want that extra edge in case you decide you want something non-primary care (anesthesiology, radiology, surgeries)

Actually, my D.O. school is highly reputable and has a good match list! A lot of our students match into those specialties.

 

[HopeP]

OP do you know how covid uncertainty in next year may throw a monkey ranch if you decide to go for masters+MD? Do you have resources to cope with it?

 

[Lightmare]

Call me stupid or whatever you want, but I'm going to go with sticking with my D.O. offer.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Call me stupid or whatever you want, but I'm going to go with sticking with my D.O. offer.

I don't think anyone will call you stupid, but even someone does why do you care. Ultimately it comes down to your comfort level.

 

[Osminog]

Choose MD option. Especially given P/F boards, you will want that extra edge in case you decide you want something non-primary care (anesthesiology, radiology, surgeries)

Let’s not stretch things too far. Diagnostic radiology and anesthesiology have ~90% and ~80% match rates for DOs, respectively. A good number of non-primary care specialties are totally in reach for decent-performing DO students and likely will continue to be with P/F Step 1.

 

[yokiguz]

Call me stupid or whatever you want, but I'm going to go with sticking with my D.O. offer.

Its all up to you buddy! I wish the best of luck to you future doctor.

 

[Lightmare]

Its all up to you buddy! I wish the best of luck to you future doctor.

Thank you! Same to you!

 

[deleted804295]

If I were you I would've taken the DO.

Kinda cruel for that MD school to do that instead of giving you an outright acceptance. I ignored all emails about masters programs from my emails.

 

[Lightmare]

If I were you I would've taken the DO.

Kinda cruel for that MD school to do that instead of giving you an outright acceptance. I ignored all emails about masters programs from my emails.

That's what I ultimately ended up choosing!

And listen, as much as I wanted the M.D. spot, I guess it wasn't meant to be for me. At the end of the day, in 4 years (as long as I pass medical school and my boards), I get to call myself Doctor.

 

[MyOdyssey]

That's what I ultimately ended up choosing!

And listen, as much as I wanted the M.D. spot, I guess it wasn't meant to be for me. At the end of the day, in 4 years (as long as I pass medical school and my boards), I get to call myself Doctor.

As an Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark fan, I say to you: "You chose wisely."

 

[MyOdyssey]

If I were you I would've taken the DO.

Kinda cruel for that MD school to do that instead of giving you an outright acceptance. I ignored all emails about masters programs from my emails.

Is it common for MD programs to offer MD applicants the option of a do-or-die one year "masters" program?

About a year ago, didn't you preemptively post that you would not be getting into medical school before you had applied and for that reason you wouldn't be posting on SDN going forward? You'll make a much better doctor than you would a fortune teller ...

 

[deleted804295]

Is it common for MD programs to offer MD applicants the option of a do-or-die one year "masters" program?

About a year ago, didn't you preemptively post that you would not be getting into medical school before you had applied and for that reason you wouldn't be posting on SDN going forward? You'll make a much better doctor than you would a fortune teller ...

I thought I wouldnt get in. Neuroticism or something like that.

On that note I have a class that starts in 4 minutes. Better get going!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Choose MD option. Especially given P/F boards, you will want that extra edge in case you decide you want something non-primary care (anesthesiology, radiology, surgeries)

You dont need an MD to match those specialties. DOs match them regularly. One of my students matched Anesthesiology at Hopkins, considered by most to be the number one program in the nation. My advisee just matched Rads at an east coast university. Gen Surgery is still over 60% match for DOs.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Its all up to you buddy! I wish the best of luck to you future doctor.

That's what I ultimately ended up choosing!

And listen, as much as I wanted the M.D. spot, I guess it wasn't meant to be for me. At the end of the day, in 4 years (as long as I pass medical school and my boards), I get to call myself Doctor.

I think you made the best decision. Normally i would advise going to the cheaper school. In your case there is no guaranteed admission to the MD program. You have no crystal ball seeing into the future. You could have an illness or family crisis and the school would be under no obligation to allow you to continue the program if these unforseen emergencies cropped up and your grades fell below the cutoff. Congrats on your admission. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[Lightmare]

I think you made the best decision. Normally i would advise going to the cheaper school. In your case there is no guaranteed admission to the MD program. You have no crystal ball seeing into the future. You could have an illness or family crisis and the school would be under no obligation to allow you to continue the program if these unforseen emergencies cropped up and your grades fell below the cutoff. Congrats on your admission. Good luck and best wishes!

Thank you!

 

[MyOdyssey]

You dont need an MD to match those specialties. DOs match them regularly. One of my students matched Anesthesiology at Hopkins, considered by most to be the number one program in the nation. My advisee just matched Rads at an east coast university. Gen Surgery is still over 60% match for DOs.

Do you foresee DOs having more difficulty matching into competitive specialties now that Step 1 scores are mandatory pass/fail?

Did your student who matched into Hopkins Anesthesiology have sky high Step 1 scores and grades?

 

[deleted804295]

Thank you!

Congrats on being a med student!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Do you foresee DOs having more difficulty matching into competitive specialties now that Step 1 scores are mandatory pass/fail?

Did your student who matched into Hopkins Anesthesiology have sky high Step 1 scores and grades?

1. step 2 will now be more important. Not much will change.
2. Not sky high, but a good score.Gpa top quartile. Interviews well, a nontrad.