URM benefits???

[MissMary]

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I'm hardly dismissing anyones "concerns" and I definately wouldnt call them concerns. I think their complaints are rude and unjustified. Minorities don't have time to patiently add their viewpoints because they have to spend so much time refuting baseless accusations of "preferential treatment" and defending their superior candidacy to those to who didn't make the cut.

I think recruiting URMs is a great way to diversify the medical profession and produce physicans that minority patients can identify with. Race will not become irrelevant anytime soon, THEREFORE the need to push URM recruitment now is necessary.

 

[Saluki]

I'm hardly dismissing anyones "concerns" and I definately wouldnt call them concerns. I think their complaints are rude and unjustified. Minorities don't have time to patiently add their viewpoints because they have to spend so much time refuting baseless accusations of "preferential treatment" and defending their superior candidacy to those to who didn't make the cut.

I think recruiting URMs is a great way to diversify the medical profession and produce physicans that minority patients can identify with. Race will not become irrelevant anytime soon, THEREFORE the need to push URM recruitment now is necessary.

The most bitter complaints on this thread have come from you. Moosepilot, who is a minority himself, has tried to add a more balanced perspective, but you keep coming back with virulent remarks. You tend to take peoples' objections and put them into the most extreme terms. If you're that thin skinned in general, I'm not surprised that you feel like you are encountering racism at every turn.

 

[Bernito]

If race is ever going to be irrelevant, we need to face that it's already irrelevant.

Irrelevant?!?!? To you and some people on SDN, maybe. It is a far cry from being irrelevant.

And trust me, no matter what it seems like, they do have the resources to figure out who is disadvantaged and who is not.

I suppose you are right. They do have the resources, just use all the NIH money to investigate each person instead of using it for research. Similarly, the US gov't also has the resources to track down all tax cheats as well. Just scratch the defense budget.

Let's say I'm a minority student who got accepted to Harvard for undergrad with mediocre SATs relative to other Harvard matriculants. Am I still disadvantaged when I apply to medical school? Residency? I mean, come on... Going to Harvard gives me the best resources in the world. Why am I still disadvantaged when I apply to medical school? How many "shots" of disadvantaged status do I get? They seem to be endless.

Judging from this statement and the one about an African American being from White Town, CT it seems that you think there is a glut minorities with their pockets overflowing. But you called it "White Town" for a reason. There is probably 1 family per 100 that is a minority, and all of the sudden there is parity between the races?

Trust me, NO URMs are getting into Harvard with mediocre stats. All the ones that do are exceptional in their own right. Being a URM just gets a few more eyes looking over the application. And deservedly so, b/c to be exceptional in this society, the one that is itching to blame 'them' for all their problems, is quite a feat.

 

[MissMary]

The most bitter complaints on this thread have come from you. Moosepilot, who is a minority himself, has tried to add a more balanced perspective, but you keep coming back with virulent remarks. You tend to take peoples' objections and put them into the most extreme terms. If you're that thin skinned in general, I'm not surprised that you feel like you are encountering racism at every turn.

your whole post was silly and unnecessary...anyway...moving on...

 

[johnc]

your whole post was silly and unnecessary...anyway...moving on...

...And when someone makes a very insightful observation you conveniently dismiss it. The only thing silly about the post was your response.

 

[MissMary]

definately wouldn't call it insightful, but to each his own

 

[medhacker]

And this is an example why this subject is not the domain of SDN

This is a very sensitive topic. What you may see as an URM overreacting to a minor comment from a non-URM may not seem the same to the URM in question.

There is a difference of perspectives obligated by the very different worlds we have had to live in.

As long as we don't have the qualified authorities (people with psychological/sociological preparation) on SDN capable of keeping inflamattory comments away from the conversation, we will always indefectibly, have a flame war when the URM subject arises.

As long as SDN mods can not guarantee such a qualified supervisory role, URM threads should be terminated on SDN in my opinion.

Failure to do so will only cause a further polarization of URMs vs non-URMs which would truly be quite sad.

 

[chemist156]

Regarding my other tread that was closed, I am not racist. I just think that is the way things go, that is all. Can I prove I am not racist? Well, I do volunteer in a battered women's shelter teaching helping children of black and hispanic background with their schoolwork. Anyways, I feel bad linking the profile, but I stay to my main point.

I am not jealous either. I am an URM.

 

[Bernito]

If you're that thin skinned in general, I'm not surprised that you feel like you are encountering racism at every turn.

I think you have your cause and effect confused. By encountering racism it is just natural to develop a thicker skin. That being said I would like to continue this discussion, and I will do so in a civil manner.

URM recruitment, the way it is currently defined by the AAMC, was and has been implemented by a dedicated body that has done years of research into this subject. In other words it was done for a reason. Sure these discussions, which I know many SDNers find annoying, do not lead to any direct consequences. But the fact that it does keep coming up shows that there is still animosity and a general lack of understanding for why it is necessary. And because of that I will keep replying...

The common complaint is that socioeconomic status rather than race/ethnicity should be the deciding factor. As discussed previously this cannot be implemented fairly. But really capitalist forces are always going to ensure that the poor are at a disadvantage, and there will always be poor people (or you can't have an economy). But poverty is not what is trying to be corrected here. What they are trying to correct is a sizable discrepancy in the #'s of minorities that go into medicine, based on the numbers in the population. This discrepancy points to something that is inherently unequal, and as we all know that type of inequality is unconstitutional.

Please just look at the acceptance data for black, hispanic, native american and hawaiian, for example before you reply.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005sumyrs.htm

Then compare to the US population, e.g.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

 

[SpyPuts]

I think you have your cause and effect confused. By encountering racism it is just natural to develop a thicker skin. That being said I would like to continue this discussion, and I will do so in a civil manner.

URM recruitment, the way it is currently defined by the AAMC, was and has been implemented by a dedicated body that has done years of research into this subject. In other words it was done for a reason. Sure these discussions, which I know many SDNers find annoying, do not lead to any direct consequences. But the fact that it does keep coming up shows that there is still animosity and a general lack of understanding for why it is necessary. And because of that I will keep replying...

The common complaint is that socioeconomic status rather than race/ethnicity should be the deciding factor. As discussed previously this cannot be implemented fairly. But really capitalist forces are always going to ensure that the poor are at a disadvantage, and there will always be poor people (or you can't have an economy). But poverty is not what is trying to be corrected here. What they are trying to correct is a sizable discrepancy in the #'s of minorities that go into medicine, based on the numbers in the population. This discrepancy points to something that is inherently unequal, and as we all know that type of inequality is unconstitutional.

Please just look at the acceptance data for black, hispanic, native american and hawaiian, for example before you reply.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005sumyrs.htm

Then compare to the US population, e.g.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

I agree that a school's commitment to enrolling a class which is representative of the general population does not seriously damage the chances of whites, asians, etc. to be accepted into any given school.

I have a few points, however:
1) There is nothing unconstitutional about an unequal access to medical education, as long as the institutions themselves are not discriminating against applicants on the basis of race. Something wrong, maybe. Something unconstitutional, no.

2) Your first link does little to convince me that there is anything but a shortage of URM applicants. They seem to be accepted at rates which are only slightly lower than the rates of acceptances for white and asian applicants. Black and Hawaiin (sample size ~40) do seem to fare a little worse. However, a link to the AAMC's data on race vs. MCAT scores would be very telling here.

3) For right or wrong, socioeconomic (disadvantaged) status will never play as large of a role in the admissions to graduate science programs as race currently does. However, the belief that anything other than socioeconomic status is responsible for the current discrepancies in the profile of graduate programs is synonymous with racism. See how long it takes you to get branded a racist if you suggest that this discrepancy is due to a biological or cultural deficiency.

If (a) it's advantageous for the physician population to mirror the general population, (b) all races are created equal, and (c) the only factor limiting a group's access to admission into a medical school program is socioeconomic status, then it would not matter which factor (race or s.e. status) adcoms took into account when evaluating an application. This is not an effective way to correct the situation, we are told. Therefore, the current admissions strategies aimed to rectify the profile of enrolled medical students are founded on racist beliefs (ie. regardless of s.e. status, the intrinsic qualities that determine one's fitness for graduate school are possessed in differing amounts based on one's race).

My third point is extreme and only holds if the ratio of URM applicants to the total applicant pool is equal to their prevalence in the general population. This is not currently the case (based on your links, AA's represent only ~4% of the applicant pool and 12% of the general pop.).

Do your worst, but keep in mind that I do support the means presently used to increase representation of URM's in medicine. I think everyone would lose if the profile of enrolled medical students was 95% asian + white.

 

[1Path]

See how long it takes you to get branded a racist if you suggest that this discrepancy is due to a biological or cultural deficiency.

I think the cultural deficiency point has some merit. If you strip a person of his family, language, and identy put 1000 of him/her on a boat for barely 100, bring him/her to a strange cold land, bondage him/her in slavery for 300 years, bondage him/her in "Jim Crow" for another 100 years, and every now and then drag one of "them" behind a Ford F 150, then what you have essentially have done is seen the "product" of the ill "harverst" you planted.

That ANY decendant of a slave has done as well as they have, is a freakin miracle!

 

[Bernito]

1) There is nothing unconstitutional about an unequal access to medical education, as long as the institutions themselves are not discriminating against applicants on the basis of race. Something wrong, maybe. Something unconstitutional, no.

The constitutionality based on, for example Grutter vs. Bollinger, that the URM definition is based on. Note that it emphasizes a time limit on race factors in admissions. More on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger

2) Your first link does little to convince me that there is anything but a shortage of URM applicants. They seem to be accepted at rates which are only slightly lower than the rates of acceptances for white and asian applicants. Black and Hawaiin (sample size ~40) do seem to fare a little worse. However, a link to the AAMC's data on race vs. MCAT scores would be very telling here.

Now Mbkcd, I am afraid I am going to have to take you to school. Grade school that is to work on your basic math :

e.g. % of applicants from AAMC
Hispanic 2708/37364 = 7.2%
Black 2809/37364 = 7.5%

vs general population:
Hispanic 14.1%
Black 12.8%

And finally, 7.2 < 14.1 and 7.5 < 12.8. Keep in mind that this is just approximate using the overall numbers. By region/state/school there could be more or less discrepancy.

3) For right or wrong, socioeconomic (disadvantaged) status will never play as large of a role in the admissions to graduate science programs as race currently does. However, the belief that anything other than socioeconomic status is responsible for the current discrepancies in the profile of graduate programs is synonymous with racism. See how long it takes you to get branded a racist if you suggest that this discrepancy is due to a biological or cultural deficiency.

If (a) it's advantageous for the physician population to mirror the general population, (b) all races are created equal, and (c) the only factor limiting a group's access to admission into a medical school program is socioeconomic status, then it would not matter which factor (race or s.e. status) adcoms took into account when evaluating an application. This is not an effective way to correct the situation, we are told. Therefore, the current admissions strategies aimed to rectify the profile of enrolled medical students are founded on racist beliefs (ie. regardless of s.e. status, the intrinsic qualities that determine one's fitness for graduate school are possessed in differing amounts based on one's race).

My third point is extreme and only holds if the ratio of URM applicants to the total applicant pool is equal to their prevalence in the general population. This is not currently the case (based on your links, AA's represent only ~4% of the applicant pool and 12% of the general pop.).

Do your worst, but keep in mind that I do support the means presently used to increase representation of URM's in medicine. I think everyone would lose if the profile of enrolled medical students was 95% asian + white.

I don't even know what you are talking about here. Branded? Never did I mention or imply inherent differences in race. I am talking about external forces that lead to inequality.

 

[SpyPuts]

The constitutionality based on, for example Grutter vs. Bollinger, that the URM definition is based on. Note that it emphasizes a time limit on race factors in admissions. More on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger



Now Mbkcd, I am afraid I am going to have to take you to school. Grade school that is to work on your basic math :

e.g. % of applicants from AAMC
Hispanic 2708/37364 = 7.2%
Black 2809/37364 = 7.5%

vs general population:
Hispanic 14.1%
Black 12.8%

And finally, 7.2 < 14.1 and 7.5 < 12.8. Keep in mind that this is just approximate using the overall numbers. By region/state/school there could be more or less discrepancy.



I don't even know what you are talking about here. Branded? Never did I mention or imply inherent differences in race. I am talking about external forces that lead to inequality.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?

You stated in your previous post that unequal access to medical education = unconstitutional, which is just plain not true. The wikipedia link you posted has nothing to say about this topic, though, so I wonder why you posted it at all. The ruling in that case upholds the admissions policies of UofM law school, stating that AA-admissions are acceptable now and in the near future. Just so we're clear, the admissions policies of UofM was the item of questionable constitutionality in that case, NOT unequal access to education.

Secondly, read my second point. I stated they are accepted at nearly the same rates. The acceptance rate for each race is approximately 50% (give or take). The fact that there are fewer black and hispanic matriculants stems from a lack in the number of applicants, not an insufficient acceptance rate.

I could go on, but I don't think you read my original post at all. Please, don't purport to "school" someone on the internet ever again.

EDIT: Ok, I apologize. You seem to have misunderstood this sentence from my previous post: "2) Your first link does little to convince me that there is anything [wrong] but a shortage of URM applicants." We agree on this point then. 🙂

 

[riceman04]

wow, resentment for URMs as a whole group? really? i don't go around resenting people with enough money to pay for an MCAT class, or to take a whole post-bac year to finish pre-med requirements. individuals pi$$ me off, not entire groups.

That is happens when you get yourself in trouble in undergrad and then you find any old excuse to find fault in someone else.

 

[riceman04]

No joke. I'm not a URM, but I would like to hear what people think the disadvantages of being a minority are, not just academic disadvantages but everywhere. I think those far outweigh the "benefits" afforded to URMs in academics. I would readily become white just so I wouldn't have to deal with all of the disadvantages.

I am a URM (afr. amer...and proud of it). Here are the disadvantages:

1. initially negative assumptions are made about your ability/presence. The first day I moved to Lovett college at Rice with my parents they were helping me a white man with his family was being friendly in his eyes when he asked my what sport I would be playing. That baffled me and it deeply upset my parents.
2. perceived to be a threat by many
3. people hold unecessary resentment towards your people...kind of like the the situation with "yourmom"
4. having to deal with people calling you out of your name...hearing words like the N word being thrown around (by all...I deeply resent my people who use that word and then want to get mad when they hear someone who is not "one of us" use it too...regardless, that word really stings.
5. being mocked by some of your own people b/c you are pursuing an education (still baffles me)...greet me by saying "Oh you think you are too good for your own people now b/c you are going to school."

I'm all good though! Oh wait, let me translate: I live, learn, and love who I am. I definitely do not hate the fact that I am a URM (afr. amer).

 

[Faust]

One day red, brown, and black folk will comprise 90% of the entering medical school class. Keep pushing, one day the med school class will be 90% colored folks and 10% non-colored folks. Once the inversion takes place then we can talk about social justice until then keep pushing color.

 

[Fermata]

One day red, brown, and black folk will comprise 90% of the entering medical school class. Keep pushing, one day the med school class will be 90% colored folks and 10% non-colored folks. Once the inversion takes place then we can talk about social justice until then keep pushing color.

😕

 

[Saluki]

1. initially negative assumptions are made about your ability/presence. The first day I moved to Lovett college at Rice with my parents they were helping me a white man with his family was being friendly in his eyes when he asked my what sport I would be playing. That baffled me and it deeply upset my parents.

Why is it a "negative" assumption that you would be playing a sport? I know plenty of intelligent white kids who came to school on athletic scholarships. Also, don't jump to assumptions that it was because you were black. Is it possible that your physique sets you apart. If you're over 6'0 and muscled I might assume you were an athlete. I'm a skinny white girl and I constantly get asked whether I run on the track team- why? I've got the calf muscles and build of a runner. It may be that guys' parents were racist, or it could just be that you look like a basketball player

 

[MissMary]

Why is it a "negative" assumption that you would be playing a sport? I know plenty of intelligent white kids who came to school on athletic scholarships. Also, don't jump to assumptions that it was because you were black. Is it possible that your physique sets you apart. If you're over 6'0 and muscled I might assume you were an athlete. I'm a skinny white girl and I constantly get asked whether I run on the track team- why? I've got the calf muscles and build of a runner. It may be that guys' parents were racist, or it could just be that you look like a basketball player

....or it could be that the man was ignorant and incapable of understanding that some Blacks are actually accepted to undergradute colleges based on their merit and not on their athletic ability. That stereotype does not exist in your neighborhood so clearly it would not affect you in the same way that it did Riceman, his parents, and the entire Black community. Its easy for Blacks to recognize comments like that for what they really are.

 

[Saluki]

Obviously not. The comment was ambiguous. It could be a racist remark implying that blacks can't get into college on academic merit (a possibility I mentioned in my other post) or it could be that he has an athletic build. There is real racism left in the US- I'm from a small town in AR, I would know 😉 But I think that many people are too quick to jump to conclusions about things.
When I went to interview at Vanderbilt, I met a kid who was going to school there on the van. He was pretty chit chatty with me until I mentioned I went to a third tier public university. Now was it for that reason that he stopped being chitt chatty with me or because the conversation was already winding down or he just ran out of things to say? When you think people don't like something about you- your color, your weight, where you go to school, every comment is going that they make is going to be weighed with that in mind. There is racism in the US, but give people a break by not reading too much into what they say.... If you jump to call racist at every innocent remark, you're belittling the real problems of the Jewish kid who gets called "****" or the unspoken segregation of a lot of Southern towns....

 

[Bernito]

School is in session... 🙄

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?

If you say so.😉

You stated in your previous post that unequal access to medical education = unconstitutional, which is just plain not true.

I said: "What they are trying to correct is a sizable discrepancy in the #'s of minorities that go into medicine, based on the numbers in the population. This discrepancy points to something that is inherently unequal, and as we all know that type of inequality is unconstitutional." Applying to a medical school is getting "into medicine." The acceptance rates are fine. The problem, and AAMC sees this, is that so few are applying in the first place relative to the population. This means there is something (environmental) preventing them from getting to that point in the first place.

You're right that I should not have called it unconstitutional. I was trying to say that the supreme court recognizes the discrepancy and allows for race as a factor in admissions, e.g. Grutter vs. Bollinger.

An side note about the acceptance rates. You point out that the rates are roughly the same per group, maybe lower for Native Americans. This is interesting to me b/c where would they be without an emphasis on URM recruitment?

I could go on, but I don't think you read my original post at all. Please, don't purport to "school" someone on the internet ever again.

EDIT: Ok, I apologize. You seem to have misunderstood this sentence from my previous post: "2) Your first link does little to convince me that there is anything [wrong] but a shortage of URM applicants." We agree on this point then. 🙂

No apologies necessary. But I did read our post. And lighten up about the "schooling" part, I never knew that saying you were taking someone to grade school could be so insulting.

 

[Saluki]

An side note about the acceptance rates. You point out that the rates are roughly the same per group, maybe lower for Native Americans. This is interesting to me b/c where would they be without an emphasis on URM recruitment?

Maybe higher if we stopped trying to correct the situation by lowering the bar at the professional school level and started improving education in poor areas from pre-school on up...

 

[riceman04]

Obviously not. The comment was ambiguous. It could be a racist remark implying that blacks can't get into college on academic merit (a possibility I mentioned in my other post) or it could be that he has an athletic build. There is real racism left in the US- I'm from a small town in AR, I would know 😉 But I think that many people are too quick to jump to conclusions about things.
When I went to interview at Vanderbilt, I met a kid who was going to school there on the van. He was pretty chit chatty with me until I mentioned I went to a third tier public university. Now was it for that reason that he stopped being chitt chatty with me or because the conversation was already winding down or he just ran out of things to say? When you think people don't like something about you- your color, your weight, where you go to school, every comment is going that they make is going to be weighed with that in mind. There is racism in the US, but give people a break by not reading too much into what they say.... If you jump to call racist at every innocent remark, you're belittling the real problems of the Jewish kid who gets called "****" or the unspoken segregation of a lot of Southern towns....

It's not only when "you" think people dont like something about you.....every comment they make is going to be weighed with that mind. It is also when that is a general running assumption that plenty of people make. I do not think it was so much the fact that he asked me if I play a sport (b/c I was a varsity athelete in high school) it was the fact that that were the first words that came out of the guys mouth. But hey, that's in the past....whatever now.

 

[Bernito]

Maybe higher if we stopped trying to correct the situation by lowering the bar at the professional school level and started improving education in poor areas from pre-school on up...

True, but that is just a pipe dream. Is throwing people in jail a solution for crime? No. We should weed it out by tackling the underlying societal issue, but that is not going to happen. And lowering the bar? You act like people are getting in to top schools with 19/2.0 just b/c they are URM.

But, the supreme court ruling does point to a time limit on race as a factor, so it is not indefinite. Also, minorities on the whole (this is a large generalization I know, but in my experience I have seen it to be true. Ok so I know of at least one exception: Clarence Thomas) are very good at repaying their debts, for lack of a better way to say it. I mean that after becoming professionals they will not forget how hard it was for them. Eventually I think the transition from the URM system will be aided by minority professionals becoming involved in those poor areas that you mention to lessen the problem.

 

[MarzMD]

Why is it a "negative" assumption that you would be playing a sport? I know plenty of intelligent white kids who came to school on athletic scholarships. Also, don't jump to assumptions that it was because you were black. Is it possible that your physique sets you apart. If you're over 6'0 and muscled I might assume you were an athlete. I'm a skinny white girl and I constantly get asked whether I run on the track team- why? I've got the calf muscles and build of a runner. It may be that guys' parents were racist, or it could just be that you look like a basketball player

I do not expect non-minorities to understand the impact of comments like this, that is why people will never understand the plight of minorities unless they themselves are one. I cant even count the number of times a conversation went like this "Oh, you go to Duke? Do you play football?" I dont care if I am muscular, this should not be your line of thought. Yes, you may assume I am an athlete, but questioning whether I play a sport is not the natural progression of that conversation. Whether I take it as an insult is based solely on the context of the conversation. If it seems like that is the only question the person has to ask me, I have to wonder what they are really getting at. I do not consider it blatant racism, rather a subconscious form of racism that is brought about by the structure of our society.

 

[MissMary]

adding to Riceman's list:

6. having your concerns about racist/inappropriate/ignorant remarks or situations dismissed by non-URMs because they cannot identify with the minority experience.

I,for one, cannot stand when Blacks, or any race for that matter, attempt to make every issue a Black and White issue. I feel that my people need to take responsibility for their own actions and recognize that these very actions may be the reason why they didnt get that job or accepted to that school or kicked off that team or whatever. Farrakhan's remarks about Katrina [ "I heard from a very reliable source who saw a 25 foot deep crater under the levee breach. It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry," Farrakhan said.] were just plain dumb if you ask me. I recognize that there are Blacks who cannot see beyond Black and White.

But there are times when comments are truly racist in nature. If you are not accustomed to dealing with these types of comments or this type of attitude, you may think that minorities are making unecessary assumptions when we are not. My 2 yr old niece came home from daycare the other day and asked her mother if she was a n*****. Trust me. We've been dealing with it for years. If you don't understand why a minority feels the way they do about a particular incident, don't dismiss it, just realize that it very well may be beyond your comprehension.

 

[riceman04]

adding to Riceman's list:

6. having your concerns about racist/inappropriate/ignorant remarks or situations dismissed by non-URMs because they cannot identify with the minority experience.

I,for one, cannot stand when Blacks, or any race for that matter, attempt to make every issue a Black and White issue. I feel that my people need to take responsibility for their own actions and recognize that these very actions may be the reason why they didnt get that job or accepted to that school or kicked off that team or whatever. Farrakhan's remarks about Katrina [ "I heard from a very reliable source who saw a 25 foot deep crater under the levee breach. It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry," Farrakhan said.] were just plain dumb if you ask me. I recognize that there are Blacks who cannot see beyond Black and White.

But there are times when comments are truly racist in nature. If you are not accustomed to dealing with these types of comments or this type of attitude, you may think that minorities are making unecessary assumptions when we are not. My 2 yr old niece came home from daycare the other day and asked her mother if she was a n*****. Trust me. We've been dealing with it for years. If you don't understand why a minority feels the way they do about a particular incident, don't dismiss it, just realize that it very well may be beyond your comprehension.

Amen to that! Preach sista preach! 🙂

 

[Will Ferrell]

5. being mocked by some of your own people b/c you are pursuing an education (still baffles me)...greet me by saying "Oh you think you are too good for your own people now b/c you are going to school."

Did someone actually say this to you? Aren't you from the upper-middle class?

 

[lucklucknow]

Your links don't support your words. Further, your inflammatory tone doesn't add anything positive at all. A civil debate only comes from being civil.

Civil??? someone had to change the tone of the debate 🙂

 

[lucklucknow]

I think you have your cause and effect confused. By encountering racism it is just natural to develop a thicker skin. That being said I would like to continue this discussion, and I will do so in a civil manner.

URM recruitment, the way it is currently defined by the AAMC, was and has been implemented by a dedicated body that has done years of research into this subject. In other words it was done for a reason. Sure these discussions, which I know many SDNers find annoying, do not lead to any direct consequences. But the fact that it does keep coming up shows that there is still animosity and a general lack of understanding for why it is necessary. And because of that I will keep replying...

The common complaint is that socioeconomic status rather than race/ethnicity should be the deciding factor. As discussed previously this cannot be implemented fairly. But really capitalist forces are always going to ensure that the poor are at a disadvantage, and there will always be poor people (or you can't have an economy). But poverty is not what is trying to be corrected here. What they are trying to correct is a sizable discrepancy in the #'s of minorities that go into medicine, based on the numbers in the population. This discrepancy points to something that is inherently unequal, and as we all know that type of inequality is unconstitutional.

Please just look at the acceptance data for black, hispanic, native american and hawaiian, for example before you reply.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005sumyrs.htm

Then compare to the US population, e.g.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... gotta give you props for this post 👍

 

[riceman04]

Did someone actually say this to you? Aren't you from the upper-middle class?

Yeah I grew up in an upper-middle class family. There are still people in my family though (like cousins) and people I barely know who are pretty judgemental.