US DO moving to Canada

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FBurnaby

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Does anyone have any information that could help me achieve this? I am a US citizen graduating from a US DO program intent on doing pediatrics, and am highly interested in moving to Canada (ON or BC) for good. Spouse US citizen. Is it possible to get a peds residency there? What is the feasibility if I am ACGME trained?

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I don't know details, but I believe Canada treats DO's as IMG's. If you don't have Canadian citizenship, I'm not sure if you're eligible for Canadian residencies. Look up the info on CaRMS, the Canadian match website. FYI the Canadian match is earlier than either the US MD or US DO matches.
 
Residency will be a no without citizenship, DO's are also IMGs here. If you have anACGME residency you might be able to work here, but I'll point out finding jobs is also not easy right now
 
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Can anyone explain the feasibility given that pediatrics residency is 3 years in U.S. And 4 years in Canada? Id be willing to live anywhere in CA as a pediatrician for a few years but want to end up somewhere like Windsor or London.
 
So it's possible to get a job through pathway 3 which would allow for permanent residency? Anyone here doing this? With these issues it's difficult to gauge the difference between "certainly doable" and "technically possible but highly doubtful." I'm surprised the market for pediatricians isn't more similar to the US.
 
So it's possible to get a job through pathway 3 which would allow for permanent residency? Anyone here doing this? With these issues it's difficult to gauge the difference between "certainly doable" and "technically possible but highly doubtful." I'm surprised the market for pediatricians isn't more similar to the US.
Well look at ortho-one of the highest paid in the US, but there's something like projected ~200 unemployed orthopods in Canada because there are literally zero jobs. Not zero jobs in Toronto, but zero anywhere.
 
Why is there a job shortage in Canada? Is there just not enough patients to go around? You would think it would be the opposite given the amount of residency spots/med schools Canada has.
 
Why is there a job shortage in Canada? Is there just not enough patients to go around? You would think it would be the opposite given the amount of residency spots/med schools Canada has.
There are too many patients-and insanely long waitlists-i.e. 8months for an 'urgent' MRI, 2 years for a knee replacement.

The problem is it's a public system, and the government is cutting funding, not increasing it as the population (and the # of med grads) grows. So they won't make new jobs for the many more specialists in residencies now, leaving them without work once they finish.

Up to 100% (CT surg last year) of grads end up taking jobs in the US
 
Well look at ortho-one of the highest paid in the US, but there's something like projected ~200 unemployed orthopods in Canada because there are literally zero jobs. Not zero jobs in Toronto, but zero anywhere.

Is there any data on primary care docs? For example, how hard would it be to get a job as a hospitalist in London?

There seems to be a shortage of jobs for specialists, but I can't find any info on PCPs.
 
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Is there any data on primary care docs? For example, how hard would it be to get a job as a hospitalist in London?

There seems to be a shortage of jobs for specialists, but I can't find any info on PCPs.
I dont know where data would be, but FM does have jobs in most places, so that's a plus if you're interested in fam med
 
I trained for internal medicine in the US and now seriously considering to relocate to Canada so any idea please about recruiters who help getting a job and guidance throughout the license process? Would appreciate any insight about transitioning from the US to Canada as an internist?
 
I trained for internal medicine in the US and now seriously considering to relocate to Canada so any idea please about recruiters who help getting a job and guidance throughout the license process? Would appreciate any insight about transitioning from the US to Canada as an internist?

You'd have to retake the Canadian exam equivalent, have your ACGME residency "assessed" by the Royal college of Canada (which costs $$$, >$1000), most likely result is that you'll end up owing Canada 1 year of training (in the form of a fellowship) as IM is 4 years in Canada, 3 years in the US.
 
I do have an additional Geri one year fellowship. How is the job market in terms of jobs availability and pay compared to the US?
 
That would be a no for the residency, limited to Canadian citizens or permanent residents only... or rich Saudis willing to pay their way through Canadian residency (then return to Saudi Arabia).
You'd be stuck with an ACGME peds residency, which is 3 years in the US, at least 4 years in Canada.
After your ACGME peds is finished, you need to pay for an "assessment" with the Canadian royal college, for them to determine if it is equivalent to the Canadian training. The answer will be "no", because your training was 3 years in the US. So you'll likely need to do another year of peds fellowship to meet the Canadian standard of 4 years. Then you need to take the Canadian version of the peds board exams. That's just to get recognition from the Royal college of Canada - which regulates all specialists.
You also need to take the Canadian version of the USMLE steps 1-3 (The MCC exams) to get provincial licensure. But fortunately, most or all provinces will take your USMLEs in place of the MCC.

This is one way, the other way is (if you want to work in Ontario), go through one of their 4 pathways. You'd need something like 5 years of experience working in the US with a FULL license in peds for that to work.

Does anyone have any information that could help me achieve this? I am a US citizen graduating from a US DO program intent on doing pediatrics, and am highly interested in moving to Canada (ON or BC) for good. Spouse US citizen. Is it possible to get a peds residency there? What is the feasibility if I am ACGME trained?
 
I do have an additional Geri one year fellowship. How is the job market in terms of jobs availability and pay compared to the US?

Whether your geri one year fellowship will meet the requirement or not will be determined by your "assessment". Canadian programs require certain amounts of months spent on specific disciplines, hence the reason you need the assessment in the first place, for them to determine that. The outcome could still be "no", you need a few more months in X,Y,Z. OR, they could say, ok, your fellowship is sufficient.
Let's suppose its sufficient. Then you can take the Canadian equivalent of the IM exam. Next question. What do you plan to work as?
General IM? Or IM geriatrics? The job market will be quite different depending on what you want to go into.
 
As for pay, that is hard to say. It heavily depends on how much you are willing to work. Especially with something like IM that needs hospital privileges. Usually you'd need to sign a contract with a hospital, and it would be a salary, or blend of salary with a percentage of your billings. You can even hold private clinic outside of hospital hours to see your discharged hospital patients for more billing. The more billling you have, the more $$ you make. I suppose you can discuss with the hospital how many hours, how many shifts you want to increase your salary.

Then you need to know about the Canadian tax system. If you just work, and don't incorporate (i.e. form a company), something like 50% of your income goes to taxes after you hit 150k. Then it gets wayyy more complicated because I'm sure you pay a lot more taxes in Canada than the US, so incorporation is key.

Right now, 1 US dollar is 1.32 Canadian dollars. So there's quite a difference in terms of exchange rate. If I were you, I'd seriously consider this before the move North. It won't be simple for you. Especially if you don't have a vested interest already present in Canada (e.g. family, property, kids/wife, prior ties, etc etc).
 
I will likely work as an internist. Very detailed response which I appreciate so much! But the impression I got from you is you think working in the US is a better option?
 
I will likely work as an internist. Very detailed response which I appreciate so much! But the impression I got from you is you think working in the US is a better option?

NP. I guess I am painting a somewhat negative picture. Think of it this way. With moving to Canada, you'd be taking an automatic 30% pay deduction (with the exchange rate). You need to spend a few thousand $$$ just to see if your American ACGME training is comparable to the Canadian training. Then you need to study and take your IM exams again (what if you fail?). Then you need to quickly understand the Canadian tax system for professionals, so the government won't take off 50% of your earnings after you hit 150k (very easy to do in medicine!). Then you need to set up all kinds of complicated tax havens to safeguard your earnings. Then you have to invoke specific provincial laws that your USMLEs are equivalent to the Canadian licensing exams... There's just a list of hoops you have to jump through, the whole enterprise could take up to 6 months to 1 year... The thing you should be asking yourself is... why? For what? What do you gain from this?

Staying in the US as an IM doctor seems like the path of least resistance. Just move to California haha, or somewhere warm, by the ocean. (I kinda wished I stayed in California :D)
 
I hear you. Just staying put is definitely more convenient but I also know practicing in Canada is less hassle in terms of insurances and the fact that you get to practice good medicine. My only concern is the job market say I jumped all these hoops eventually would it be easy to get a job as an internist?
 
I hear you. Just staying put is definitely more convenient but I also know practicing in Canada is less hassle in terms of insurances and the fact that you get to practice good medicine. My only concern is the job market say I jumped all these hoops eventually would it be easy to get a job as an internist?

The job market (like most things) depends on where you are in Canada. It will be pointless to talk about the "Canadian job market for internal medicine" in a general sense because Canada is a massive country bigger than the US, but with a population of 1/10th the US. The population distribution is far from uniform. Most of the population lives within 100 miles of the US border. If you went to our largest cities (e.g. Toronto, Vancouver), you might find a job, or you could face over-saturation, because the large cities are where all the specialists congregate.
In general, the further North you go in Canada, the greater the the need for medical care, the scarcer the medical resources and the easier you can find work and get paid an obscene amount for a relatively short amount of work. What I have noticed many specialists do is that they live in the major cities, doing something like part time work, then they spent a few months up North (wayyy north) to do a few weeks or months at a time. This is very lucrative, and potentially doing 4-6 months of work up north is equivalent to a full year's work in the large cities.
As for the exact job prospects for IM all across Canada, I cannot say because I'm a family physician with a clinic, my world is different than an internist's world. There are however organizations in all the provinces that can help settle, get your license, move, and work in Canada.

My suggestion: 1) Find out where you want to work in Canada. I'm going to assume Ontario, just because it is the largest province by population. Look into "healthforceontario", contact them, you might pleasantly surprised.
 
Thank you thank you
Your insights are VERY informative. I thought I will never get to the bottom of this.
I emailed healthforceontario but it looks like they stopped their one on one career guidance which is unfortunate :(

Do you think it's better to practice in Canada as a specialist say rheumatology or IM if we talking about job prospects and to make it more applicable... I am probably looking to relocate to ON since they have the pathway 4 which might be an easier and relatively quicker path with my training?
 
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Thank you thank you
Your insights are VERY informative. I thought I will never get to the bottom of this.
I emailed healthforceontario but it looks like they stopped their one on one career guidance which is unfortunate :(

Do you think it's better to practice in Canada as a specialist say rheumatology or IM if we talking about job prospects and to make it more applicable... I am probably looking to relocate to ON since they have the pathway 4 which might be an easier and relatively quicker path with my training?

Good choice on Ontario, that's what I would have picked too if I were in your position. Additionally, if you haven't already, look into "Pathway 3", this is Ontario specific, if you do this pathway, you can practice with a full license without the royal college assessment, or even the Canadian royal college exam equivalent.

Like I said before, your job prospect varies based on where you are. The further north or more remote you are (i.e., far away from the larger cities), the easier to find a job, the closer you are to the metropolises, the greater the risk of the over-saturation. HFO even has a job searching service, you can easily look for jobs based on location and specialty. Check it out: https://hfojobs.healthforceontario.ca/en/
 
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