US grading system equivalents?

[IMG69]

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I'm an IMG if you can't tell by the name, my medical school gives out percentages as grades with no bell curve or anything so everybody can get 100% or everyone could fail and I was just wondering if anybody has an idea about what percentage is equivalent to the US grades e.g Pass = 50%? high pass =70%? etc etc.

To pass a subject here we need 60% not 50% (that doesn't imply the content is easier, it literally means we need to know 60% of the course just to pass compared with the usual 50%?) so quite a few students do actually fail subjects and the highest grades usually seen are by scholarship students ( their grades are made public) these guys are the top 5 out of the whole class and they tend to float between 82%~88% for their GPA's. -- Hopefully this gives you some kind of reference point?

Just curious as it will help me make comparisons when I read a lot of the threads on here such as "will I get psych with all passes". Thank you 🙂

 

[Styrene]

I'm an IMG if you can't tell by the name, my medical school gives out percentages as grades with no bell curve or anything so everybody can get 100% or everyone could fail and I was just wondering if anybody has an idea about what percentage is equivalent to the US grades e.g Pass = 50%? high pass =70%? etc etc.

To pass a subject here we need 60% not 50% (that doesn't imply the content is easier, it literally means we need to know 60% of the course just to pass compared with the usual 50%?) so quite a few students do actually fail subjects and the highest grades usually seen are by scholarship students ( their grades are made public) these guys are the top 5 out of the whole class and they tend to float between 82%~88% for their GPA's. -- Hopefully this gives you some kind of reference point?

Just curious as it will help me make comparisons when I read a lot of the threads on here such as "will I get psych with all passes". Thank you 🙂

This varies by school, and it is difficult to compare pre-clinical and clinical grades. At my school, pre-clinical grades are honors/pass/fail: Honors is 90%, pass is 65%, and fail is <65%. For some of the classes, half of all students earn honors. Clinically, many schools, mine included, use an honors/high pass/pass/low pass/fail grading scheme. Given the subjective component of clinical grades, the exact methodology of grade calculation can be somewhat of a black box.

 

[IMG69]

This varies by school, and it is difficult to compare pre-clinical and clinical grades. At my school, pre-clinical grades are honors/pass/fail: Honors is 90%, pass is 65%, and fail is <65%. For some of the classes, half of all students earn honors. Clinically, many schools, mine included, use an honors/high pass/pass/low pass/fail grading scheme. Given the subjective component of clinical grades, the exact methodology of grade calculation can be somewhat of a black box.

Yeah I understand it's very difficult to make comparisons but do you think you could attempt to make one based on the information I provided? Both pre-clinicals and clinical subjects are graded using percentages. I'm really just looking for a ballpark figure 🙂 When you say 90% do you actually mean they only got 10% of the whole course wrong or is there some curvature to this?

Our clinical subjects are taught exactly the same as pre-clinicals (lectures etc) with the occasional hospital visit (we then do 1.5 years of rotations where ever we want - I want to do this in the U.S hence why i'm asking about grade comparison)

 

[Styrene]

Yeah I understand it's very difficult to make comparisons but do you think you could attempt to make one based on the information I provided? Both pre-clinicals and clinical subjects are graded using percentages. I'm really just looking for a ballpark figure 🙂 When you say 90% do you actually mean they only got 10% of the whole course wrong or is there some curvature to this?

Our clinical subjects are taught exactly the same as pre-clinicals (lectures etc) with the occasional hospital visit (we then do 1.5 years of rotations where ever we want - I want to do this in the U.S hence why i'm asking about grade comparison)

There is no curve at my school, so, for example, if my final grade in neuropathophysiology was a 94.8%, it means I only missed 5.2% of everything.

As for clinicals, I am not sure how the actual percentages work out. But our clinical grades are based on clinical rotations/evals + NBME shelf exams (one for each rotation).

 

[IMG69]

There is no curve at my school, so, for example, if my final grade in neuropathophysiology was a 94.8%, it means I only missed 5.2% of everything.

As for clinicals, I am not sure how the actual percentages work out. But our clinical grades are based on clinical rotations/evals + NBME shelf exams (one for each rotation).

Congrats on your amazing grade. With that being said i'm amazed that half of your class can get 90% for some subjects, even with all the Thai students here (they're absolute robots) we have here only 1~3 out of ~80 students will crack 90% for any given subject.

Hmm so i'm still unsure of a comparison but of course i'll do my best regardless.

Thanks for your responses.

 

[Frogger27]

My schools is P/F preclinical. Above 70% is pass. The only thing that shows on your transcript is the P or F. Our school keeps an internal ranking with preclinical making up 50% and clinical grades making up the other 50%. We will be broken into quartiles when we apply to residencies that will be disclosed on our ERAS app

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm an IMG if you can't tell by the name, my medical school gives out percentages as grades with no bell curve or anything so everybody can get 100% or everyone could fail and I was just wondering if anybody has an idea about what percentage is equivalent to the US grades e.g Pass = 50%? high pass =70%? etc etc.

To pass a subject here we need 60% not 50% (that doesn't imply the content is easier, it literally means we need to know 60% of the course just to pass compared with the usual 50%?) so quite a few students do actually fail subjects and the highest grades usually seen are by scholarship students ( their grades are made public) these guys are the top 5 out of the whole class and they tend to float between 82%~88% for their GPA's. -- Hopefully this gives you some kind of reference point?

Just curious as it will help me make comparisons when I read a lot of the threads on here such as "will I get psych with all passes". Thank you 🙂

At my school, P=70%, HP=80%, H=90%. No curve whatsoever.

We have no class rank, but charts are provided for each of our clinical and preclinical blocks that show where we were in relation to our class.

 

[IMG69]

Ah ok so if I can maintain around ~85% I should be alright.

Thanks for your replies.

 

[Frogger27]

Ah ok so if I can maintain around ~85% I should be alright.

Thanks for your replies.

Most important thing is your Step Score (if you are trying to match in the US). This is the way you will be standardized to other candidates. There is too much variability in preclinical grades to compare across the spectrum.

 

[IMG69]

Most important thing is your Step Score (if you are trying to match in the US). This is the way you will be standardized to other candidates. There is too much variability in preclinical grades to compare across the spectrum.

Yeah i'm fully aware step 1 is everything basically but i'm going to try for a very competitive field so literally everything matters, i'm purely just trying to get an idea of where I need to keep my subject averages (of course higher is better but if i'm pulling say 83's and need 87's then i'll need to step it up a bit)

 

[Precedexed Out]

I'm an IMG if you can't tell by the name, my medical school gives out percentages as grades with no bell curve or anything so everybody can get 100% or everyone could fail and I was just wondering if anybody has an idea about what percentage is equivalent to the US grades e.g Pass = 50%? high pass =70%? etc etc.

To pass a subject here we need 60% not 50% (that doesn't imply the content is easier, it literally means we need to know 60% of the course just to pass compared with the usual 50%?) so quite a few students do actually fail subjects and the highest grades usually seen are by scholarship students ( their grades are made public) these guys are the top 5 out of the whole class and they tend to float between 82%~88% for their GPA's. -- Hopefully this gives you some kind of reference point?

Just curious as it will help me make comparisons when I read a lot of the threads on here such as "will I get psych with all passes". Thank you 🙂

Every school (even class) is so different that comparisons aren't practical. Some schools have difficult tests where 60% is passing and others have test averages in the 80% area. Getting a 60% doesn't necessarily mean you only know 60% of the course content. At my school, one can easily know 75% of the content and still fail the test because they only ask questions about the more difficult stuff and stay away from the basics. If you think about learning like a pyramid, the base contains much more and each layer is smaller than the one below it. Yet the test questions mostly come from the top of the pyramid at my school and maybe your school selects question proportionally to all layers so our scores will be different even if we know the exact same amount of content.

 

[Frogger27]

Yeah i'm fully aware step 1 is everything basically but i'm going to try for a very competitive field so literally everything matters, i'm purely just trying to get an idea of where I need to keep my subject averages (of course higher is better but if i'm pulling say 83's and need 87's then i'll need to step it up a bit)

As an IMG, to match into a competitive field is near impossible. You will need All A's, AOA (if that is even a thing at carib schools), 260+ step score, multiple publications (in Nature if possible) and connections out the ass to fight for you. I don't think preclinical grades matter very much in your case. It all comes down to an astronomically high step score and some serious connections. It is tough road but good luck!

 

[Lnsean]

for preclinical it varies so much by school...some schools give out As like candy...so the only real objective and standardized measure is step 1.

 

[IMG69]

As an IMG, to match into a competitive field is near impossible. You will need All A's, AOA (if that is even a thing at carib schools), 260+ step score, multiple publications (in Nature if possible) and connections out the ass to fight for you. I don't think preclinical grades matter very much in your case. It all comes down to an astronomically high step score and some serious connections. It is tough road but good luck!

Yup also aware of this 🙂 but I think it's possible, i'm going for ortho specifically which had 13 non U.S med school students match this year and 6/27 match the year before. Yeah hence why I was trying to make the comparison in grades, i'm aiming for top of my class anyway. I have no idea what AOA is and i'm not in the Caribbean, yes I've already got publications pending for anatomical journals and plan to publish around 25-30 over my degree.

I didn't want this thread to take this turn, I knew I should've put something in the OP. I know step 1 is my make or break but i'm not worried about it as i'm already reviewing the material years before I sit it (yes i'm making sure I get into ortho) I have research going, i've met the head of department even and got his contact (good for references etc) and I plan to make connections when I do my internship (our final year) which I will undertake in the U.S so I should make amazing connections living there for a whole year. Who knows though maybe I am just delusional.

If all that somehow fails I will just go for gen. surgery and then do ortho in my home country. (I hold a U.S passport and step 1 is a requirement in my home country for IMGs so why not just try for ortho in the states anyway)

But thank you for reaffirming what the most important things are 🙂

 

[Mad Jack]

Yeah i'm fully aware step 1 is everything basically but i'm going to try for a very competitive field so literally everything matters, i'm purely just trying to get an idea of where I need to keep my subject averages (of course higher is better but if i'm pulling say 83's and need 87's then i'll need to step it up a bit)

Depending on the specialty you are looking at, no amount of grades might make it possible unless you're from a very select few IMG institutions.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yup also aware of this 🙂 but I think it's possible, i'm going for ortho specifically which had 13 non U.S med school students match this year and 6/27 match the year before. Yeah hence why I was trying to make the comparison in grades, i'm aiming for top of my class anyway. I have no idea what AOA is and i'm not in the Caribbean, yes I've already got publications pending for anatomical journals and plan to publish around 25-30 over my degree.

I didn't want this thread to take this turn, I knew I should've put something in the OP. I know step 1 is my make or break but i'm not worried about it as i'm already reviewing the material years before I sit it (yes i'm making sure I get into ortho) I have research going, i've met the head of department even and got his contact (good for references etc) and I plan to make connections when I do my internship (our final year) which I will undertake in the U.S so I should make amazing connections living there for a whole year. Who knows though maybe I am just delusional.

If all that somehow fails I will just go for gen. surgery and then do ortho in my home country. (I hold a U.S passport and step 1 is a requirement in my home country so why not just try for ortho in the states anyway)

But thank you for reaffirming what the most important things are 🙂

We're just trying to keep you realistic. Usually people that match ortho that are IMGs have something special- they're from someplace like Oxford, Cambridge, or Karolinska, they went to Sackler, which is considered in-state in NY for many purposes and has some of the strongest connections of any IMG school, or they've got family in powerful places in medicine in the United States. Expecting that just working hard will be enough is a good way to set yourself up for serious disappointment, especially since you'll be graduating in a climate with thousands of more US graduates than now. Even general surgery is a tough thing to match, so be ready for a tough fight ahead either way.

 

[IMG69]

We're just trying to keep you realistic. Usually people that match ortho that are IMGs have something special- they're from someplace like Oxford, Cambridge, or Karolinska, they went to Sackler, which is considered in-state in NY for many purposes and has some of the strongest connections of any IMG school, or they've got family in powerful places in medicine in the United States. Expecting that just working hard will be enough is a good way to set yourself up for serious disappointment, especially since you'll be graduating in a climate with thousands of more US graduates than now. Even general surgery is a tough thing to match, so be ready for a tough fight ahead either way.

I know hence my 'maybe i'm delusional comment' 🙂 yeah i'm aware it's a longshot but as I said in that speel above the one thing that I believe makes a big difference, is the ability to do 100% of my final year in the US this really gives me a chance to make some great connections, get US references and things of this nature.

My university has these partners, could you possibly shed some light on them? are they decent schools? University of Texas, Ohio State University, University of Virginia, Indiana University, University of Illinois, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York University, Rutgers University, Benedictine University, Emporia State University

 

[Mad Jack]

I know hence my 'maybe i'm delusional comment' 🙂 yeah i'm aware it's a longshot but as I said in that speel above the one thing that I believe makes a big difference, is the ability to do 100% of my final year in the US this really gives me a chance to make some great connections, get US references and things of this nature.

My university has these partners, could you possibly shed some light on them? are they decent schools? University of Texas, Ohio State University, University of Virginia, Indiana University, University of Illinois, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York University, Rutgers University, Benedictine University, Emporia State University

The partners don't matter a whole hell of a lot when it comes to matching something like ortho- you're either home program or not. You might get some decent letters, but I'm telling you, I know kids with exceptional Step scores and great letters and research that have struggled to match ortho coming out of US schools. Most departments put IMGs directly in the shred bin, because matching an IMG carries a stigma of there being something wrong with the program.

 

[IMG69]

The partners don't matter a whole hell of a lot when it comes to matching something like ortho- you're either home program or not. You might get some decent letters, but I'm telling you, I know kids with exceptional Step scores and great letters and research that have struggled to match ortho coming out of US schools. Most departments put IMGs directly in the shred bin, because matching an IMG carries a stigma of there being something wrong with the program.

This is basically my plan, i'll use Texas for this example, I reach my final year then move to Texas and complete my full year of rotations there - so i've spent 52 weeks (that's the length of our final years rotations) in the Texas Uni affiliated hospital. Do you not think I would have a slightly increased chance of getting a residency there? I'll basically have the pre-clinical knowledge from my current University but have the clinical skills of that University. Let's ignore ortho for this example and say general surgery.

Also thanks for your posts any information on this topic is good information.

 

[Mad Jack]

This is basically my plan, i'll use Texas for this example, I reach my final year then move to Texas and complete my full year of rotations there - so i've spent 52 weeks (that's the length of our final years rotations) in the Texas Uni affiliated hospital. Do you not think I would have a slightly increased chance of getting a residency there? I'll basically have the pre-clinical knowledge from my current University but have the clinical skills of that University. Let's ignore ortho for this example and say general surgery.

Also thanks for your posts any information on this topic is good information.

Most places only allow non-home program students to do up to eight weeks of rotations, and the match process starts in September, so you'll realistically only have two to three rotations in by the time the match starts, and only two of those can be at the same place, unless you take a year off. If you take a year off, you'll be a year out of any US clinical experience, which counts against you a bit. This is why programs that complete core years in US hospitals have such an edge- they get a full year of USCE prior to the match and can have US letters and all that lined up. Basically, it isn't an easy process, and it's particularly difficult for IMGs.

 

[IMG69]

Most places only allow non-home program students to do up to eight weeks of rotations, and the match process starts in September, so you'll realistically only have two to three rotations in by the time the match starts, and only two of those can be at the same place, unless you take a year off. If you take a year off, you'll be a year out of any US clinical experience, which counts against you a bit. This is why programs that complete core years in US hospitals have such an edge- they get a full year of USCE prior to the match and can have US letters and all that lined up. Basically, it isn't an easy process, and it's particularly difficult for IMGs.

Wow only 8 weeks... my shortest rotations are 2 weeks, things like derm and ENT but i'm meant to do 12 weeks surgery and 12 weeks of IM. Hmm this is getting complicated... well hypothetically couldn't I just make sure one of the 2-3 rotations is surgery?

While I still have you here, do you know of any programs (websites) that aid IMG's in getting rotations in the U.S? I will google it but you might know the top programs off the top of your head?

Thanks again for your replies 🙂

 

[Mad Jack]

Wow only 8 weeks... my shortest rotations are 2 weeks, things like derm and ENT but i'm meant to do 12 weeks surgery and 12 weeks of IM. Hmm this is getting complicated... well hypothetically couldn't I just make sure one of the 2-3 rotations is surgery?

While I still have you here, do you know of any programs (websites) that aid IMG's in getting rotations in the U.S? I will google it but you might know the top programs off the top of your head?

Thanks again for your replies 🙂

Don't know, personally. You could try the USMLE forums or ValueMD, they tend to know more about that stuff. You could do both in surgery, that's what most people do.

 

[IMG69]

Don't know, personally. You could try the USMLE forums or ValueMD, they tend to know more about that stuff. You could do both in surgery, that's what most people do.

Ah ok i'll have a search around, thanks anyway. To obtain my degree I have to work through all these departments; Internal Medicine, Surgery, Gynaecology & Obstetrics, Pediatrics, Neurology, Out-patient department, Ophthalmology, Dermatology, Otolaryngology. All are varying lengths, IM and surgery the longest (12 weeks each)

I don't actually think I get to choose electives..

 

[Mad Jack]

Ah ok i'll have a search around, thanks anyway. To obtain my degree I have to work through all these departments; Internal Medicine, Surgery, Gynaecology & Obstetrics, Pediatrics, Neurology, Out-patient department, Ophthalmology, Dermatology, Otolaryngology. All are varying lengths, IM and surgery the longest (12 weeks each)

I don't actually think I get to choose electives..

You'd be doing all of those in your home country though during third year. Fourth year, at least here, is entirely electives.

 

[IMG69]

You'd be doing all of those in your home country though during third year. Fourth year, at least here, is entirely electives.

See this is where it differs, we basically learn all the theory for the specialties the year before we go into our 'intern' year so neurology, surgery, etc and we sit theory exams (compound fracture of femur what's your surgical approach). Our final year is treated as an actual internship hence why it lasts for a whole year and has no examinations.

Using surgery as an example, in our penultimate year we learn the theory and operate on dogs, performing actual operations - 'ectomies', orthopedic procedures etc etc yes it's highly unethical and some do die but it's legal in this country and incredibly beneficial for learning

 

[Mad Jack]

See this is where it differs, we basically learn all the theory for the specialties the year before we go into our 'intern' year so neurology, surgery, etc and we sit theory exams (compound fracture of femur what's your surgical approach). Our final year is treated as an actual internship hence why it lasts for a whole year and has no examinations.

Using surgery as an example, in our penultimate year we learn the theory and operate on dogs, performing actual operations - 'ectomies', orthopedic procedures etc etc yes it's highly unethical and some do die but it's legal in this country and incredibly beneficial for learning

Wait, so you have no clinic experience whatsoever before fourth year? That's troubling, as when you come into fourth year you're expected to have a full year of experience. Do you do your integrated intern year prior to coming to the US? If not I'd be highly concerned about your performance.

 

[IMG69]

Wait, so you have no clinic experience whatsoever before fourth year? That's troubling, as when you come into fourth year you're expected to have a full year of experience. Do you do your integrated intern year prior to coming to the US? If not I'd be highly concerned about your performance.

No we do but we aren't actually treating patients just observing and doing minor things etc but I was just trying to make the point that this year is mainly theory based to ramp up for the huge final year. We go by semesters here (2 semesters = 1 year) from semester 8 we start getting clinical experience then our intern year; semesters 11-12 I believe is the same as your fourth year? We do rounds, treatment regimes, diagnose

 

[Mad Jack]

No we do but we aren't actually treating patients just observing and doing minor things etc but I was just trying to make the point that this year is mainly theory based to ramp up for the huge final year. We go by semesters here (2 semesters = 1 year) from semester 8 we start getting clinical experience then our intern year; semesters 11-12 I believe is the same as your fourth year? We do rounds, treatment regimes, diagnose

Yeah, your last year would be an elective year here.

 

[IMG69]

Yeah, your last year would be an elective year here.

Based on what you said earlier about grades possibly being outweighed by contacts, do you think it would be better to just do my final year in my home country (New Zealand) and play the contacts card, I have a few family members who are doctors and have been involved in the medical education system back home so I would imagine they would surely have U.S contacts and could put in a good word. I mean my neighbour is even an orthopaedic surgeon..

What's your opinion on this? I'm not a fan of the dirty tactics but I suppose these residencies are pretty cutthroat

 

[Mad Jack]

Based on what you said earlier about grades possibly being outweighed by contacts, do you think it would be better to just do my final year in my home country (New Zealand) and play the contacts card, I have a few family members who are doctors and have been involved in the medical education system back home so I would imagine they would surely have U.S contacts and could put in a good word. I mean my neighbour is even an orthopaedic surgeon..

What's your opinion on this? I'm not a fan of the dirty tactics but I suppose these residencies are pretty cutthroat

It's important, but it's also EXTREMELY important to have US clinical experience. Given that you're at least from NZ, you might have a faint, miniscule shot at ortho so long as you play your cards right, but general surgery could also be in the cards so long as you get that USCE and hopefully build up some contacts.

 

[IMG69]

It's important, but it's also EXTREMELY important to have US clinical experience. Given that you're at least from NZ, you might have a faint, miniscule shot at ortho so long as you play your cards right, but general surgery could also be in the cards so long as you get that USCE and hopefully build up some contacts.

This is basically what i'm thinking since you said I only have a limited number of weeks for rotations in the US; Do all the other stuff in NZ IM, Neuro etc then complete my surgery requirements in the U.S. Seems like this is my best option.

Anyway thanks a lot for all the advice 🙂 you've been a big help.

 

[Mad Jack]

This is basically what i'm thinking since you said I only have a limited number of weeks for rotations in the US; Do all the other stuff in NZ IM, Neuro etc then complete my surgery requirements in the U.S. Seems like this is my best option.

Anyway thanks a lot for all the advice 🙂 you've been a big help.

NP. Like I was saying though, you should really talk with some people on an international-focused forum as they tend to know that game better than we do here! Good luck!

 

[IMG69]

NP. Like I was saying though, you should really talk with some people on an international-focused forum as they tend to know that game better than we do here! Good luck!

Have you seen those forums? I went to valuemd, all you get is indians and pakistanis saying every university is the best ever or surly Caribbean students, there's nothing positive or informative about those sites sadly. Thanks, i'll definitely need a bit of luck haha.

 

[Mad Jack]

Have you seen those forums? I went to valuemd, all you get is indians and pakistanis saying every university is the best ever or surly Caribbean students, there's nothing positive or informative about those sites sadly. Thanks, i'll definitely need a bit of luck haha.

Could check in the surgery subforums, they've got some PDs there that might be able to advise. I'm just a medical student, I've got more limited experience with the match than the PDs and residents you'll meet there.

 

[AshNiffler]

My 2c, I’m an IMG/4th year currently applying for residency. There are several variables going in (visa, name of school, research, LORs, USCE etc) and yes you have the right idea about covering your ass by getting As when you can and 260+. But. As I am rapidly coming to understand, it can really only take you so far as an IMG. I’d love to be wrong and every case is different but hey my 2c. Do some research, scour the forums and see other experiences, I know it’s the internet so grain of salt and all that. Best of luck.

 

[IMG69]

My 2c, I’m an IMG/4th year currently applying for residency. There are several variables going in (visa, name of school, research, LORs, USCE etc) and yes you have the right idea about covering your ass by getting As when you can and 260+. But. As I am rapidly coming to understand, it can really only take you so far as an IMG. I’d love to be wrong and every case is different but hey my 2c. Do some research, scour the forums and see other experiences, I know it’s the internet so grain of salt and all that. Best of luck.

So your an FMG not an IMG? - I have a US passport. If I was an FMG I truly wouldn't even bother with the US, also the main reason i'm going the US route is that in my country it's virtually impossible to get ortho (truly impossible) they offer 9 spots a year in the whole country. I've done quite a bit of research; i've had lots of down time since it's coming up to the final exams period, valuemd doesn't really offer anything helpful, I think this forum is by far the best.

 

[libertyyne]

So your an FMG not an IMG? - I have a US passport. If I was an FMG I truly wouldn't even bother with the US, also the main reason i'm going the US route is that in my country it's virtually impossible to get ortho (truly impossible) they offer 9 spots a year in the whole country. I've done quite a bit of research; i've had lots of down time since it's coming up to the final exams period, valuemd doesn't really offer anything helpful, I think this forum is by far the best.

Your odds seem better in NZ.

 

[Frogger27]

Looking at your post history it seems you are from NZ but go to medical school in China? I think you would have better luck getting an ortho residency in either of those countries (do not know enough about them to give grea advice).

It also seems that people in the other threads you have created have tried to give you realistic advice about applying to ortho in the US as an IMG and you seem to either not want to listen/ want to believe it

 

[libertyyne]

Wait, you are a NZ/US citizen going to school in china?

 

[IMG69]

Looking at your post history it seems you are from NZ but go to medical school in China? I think you would have better luck getting an ortho residency in either of those countries (do not know enough about them to give grea advice).

It also seems that people in the other threads you have created have tried to give you realistic advice about applying to ortho in the US as an IMG and you seem to either not want to listen/ want to believe it

I don't understand? How does it seem i'm not realistic? I know it's virtually impossible to get? Hence the reason i'm on here asking for advice for every little advantage I can get however minuscule it may be. I need to find those tiny things that will give me an advantage over the other IMGs. As I said above, if Ortho doesn't work out ill just go for gen surgery.

China's off the cards, I really don't want to have to devote the time to become fluent and I would much rather be in a western country. New Zealand is my backup, the system differs to the U.S in that we have to do PGY years and then apply for a speciality residency rather then gaining entry straight into a residency program. So maybe this has shed some light on my situation/plan? USMLE step 1, try for Ortho in the states, step 1 is also used as part of my NZ licensing test so if I didn't gain ortho or gen surgery I would come back and go through the NZ system.

Again to reiterate, i'm fully aware it's near impossible for me to get into Ortho. When I post on here i'm not expecting some magic formula for Ortho, i'm looking for the things that will take my chances from 1% to 1.5% that's all. I'm not expecting to get USCE and then suddenly have a 15% chance of getting ortho.

Summary - US system allows me to specialize instantly, Step 1 is used for NZ system as well, building a great application for US Ortho will also provide me with an incredible foundation to build on in my PGYs for my Ortho application in NZ.

Thank you for your replies 🙂 I know these conversations are like beating a dead horse.

 

[Domperidone]

Focus on the Step 1 if anything..
See what you score. Otherwise, it's just a lot of hot air at this stage.
then get your US clinical rotations organized.

Frogger's not wrong about your chances being potentially better in NZ.
While it takes longer to get onto a training program, NZ shouldn't be ruled out entirely in your case. In the least, it could be back up. The benefit is that while you're in NZ (if you end up there instead - which isn't going to be easy either), you are working in a Western country. You can apply to the American match again if you don't match the first time. In the meantime, you are granted the opportunities to build a CV and network in NZ to work towards ortho in NZ.

There is very much the possibility you will not match into anything state side. That much has been said to you over, and over and over again. The alternative to not matching is not working or working in China. the longer you don't work the harder it is to match after - in either the US or NZ. at any rate, it's obviously up to you what you wish to consider.

Oh geez. i just realized the last response was over a month ago. my bad

 

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Focus on the Step 1 if anything..
See what you score. Otherwise, it's just a lot of hot air at this stage.
then get your US clinical rotations organized.

Frogger's not wrong about your chances being potentially better in NZ.
While it takes longer to get onto a training program, NZ shouldn't be ruled out entirely in your case. In the least, it could be back up. The benefit is that while you're in NZ (if you end up there instead - which isn't going to be easy either), you are working in a Western country. You can apply to the American match again if you don't match the first time. In the meantime, you are granted the opportunities to build a CV and network in NZ to work towards ortho in NZ.

There is very much the possibility you will not match into anything state side. That much has been said to you over, and over and over again. The alternative to not matching is not working or working in China. the longer you don't work the harder it is to match after - in either the US or NZ. at any rate, it's obviously up to you what you wish to consider.

Oh geez. i just realized the last response was over a month ago. my bad

Oh yes i'm all sorted now 🙂 since you bothered to look through to find this, I may as well give you a summary; build my CV towards ortho in US (amazing CV with plenty of publications), study for step 1 over the next 3 years (ensuring I get a high score hopefully) - this won't be to hard, it's incredibly boring here so no distractions, continue doing research, US/western clinicals. Apply for Ortho, plastics, Gen surg and IM, cause why not. If I don't get surgery (any) go to NZ and go through that system however to become an Ortho there it takes almost 10+ years after graduating (found out from NZ medical forums) as you have to build up a CV with trainings and courses to be eligible to apply for Ortho.

So basically NZ is my safety net because no matter what I can always do Ortho there, although it will take me A LOT longer (heard people can wait up till PGY-7 to have enough 'points' to be able to apply) but at least i'll be doing surgery and getting paid still while building my application 🙂

If you see any holes in this plan please let me know