USAF pilot long-term goals/options

[NMPilot]

First of all, I apologize for starting yet another "look at me and tell me what to do" thread. I promise to use this thread to update my own status rather than start new ones every time I have a question.

I'm currently serving as a C-17 pilot in the United States Air Force. It seems that more and more the topic of "what are you going to do after you get out" is coming up in conversation, and I've always jokingly answered "medical school" because it was always something I considered doing until I fell bass-ackwards into this. But more and more, I'm realizing that I am answering that question seriously with "medical school". Among many reasons, I grew up in a medical family, my father and now younger sister are both doctors. And I'd love to join in the family business eventually, so to speak.

Anyway, I'll let loose with some specifics before I ask questions.
-BA in Political Science (took lots of science/math classes, though)
-2003 Boston University 3.3 GPA
-USAF Capt. w/ 4+ years active service
-Several years commitment left, will be Maj. (likely) by then.
-GRE in Dec 02. I did very well but can't remember specific scores.

I imagine that if I had applied myself even half as much in my college years as I have since I'd have a much higher GPA and who knows what I would have done on the GRE. But the past is the past and my record since has been great. I'm about to start getting my masters because its required to make certain promotions in the AF now, but I am probably going to have to get it online because I'm not home on a regular enough schedule as my job means frequent 2-3 week overseas trips.

My commitment in the AF won't be up for a while now, so I'm thinking about things in a much more long-term way than most, though I take comfort in reading other threads in this Non-Trad category that I'm not alone. I probably won't be applying until 2014 at the earliest.

My questions (for now):
1. How much of an impact will my undergrad performance, both good and bad, have on my chances applying to medical school 10-15 years after the fact?
2.How should I go about meeting the needs for a Masters through the AF (probably online) and knocking out as many prereqs or at least preparing me for them ASAP?
3. What other advice, in the way of studying or otherwise preparing, would you have for someone thinking about it so far in advance?

I'm flying now and serving my country becasue that came up as a surprise opportunity that I couldn't turn down as I finshed college, but I always knew it would only be a temporary thing. The last few months as I've thought about this more and more I actually feel like I finall yknow what I want to do when I grow up! And its given me even more motivation to push myself even harder to be even better at what I'm already doing. And I want to start using that motivation towards opening up even more options for myself. And I find sentences started with the word "and" annoying. And I keep doing it...

Thanks!

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[thatfrickekid]

First of all, I apologize for starting yet another “look at me and tell me what to do” thread. I promise to use this thread to update my own status rather than start new ones every time I have a question.

I'm currently serving as a C-17 pilot in the United States Air Force. It seems that more and more the topic of “what are you going to do after you get out” is coming up in conversation, and I've always jokingly answered “medical school” because it was always something I considered doing until I fell bass-ackwards into this. But more and more, I'm realizing that I am answering that question seriously with “medical school”. Among many reasons, I grew up in a medical family, my father and now younger sister are both doctors. And I'd love to join in the family business eventually, so to speak.

Anyway, I'll let loose with some specifics before I ask questions.
-BA in Political Science (took lots of science/math classes, though)
-2003 Boston University 3.3 GPA
-USAF Capt. w/ 4+ years active service
-Several years commitment left, will be Maj. (likely) by then.
-GRE in Dec 02. I did very well but can't remember specific scores.

I imagine that if I had applied myself even half as much in my college years as I have since I'd have a much higher GPA and who knows what I would have done on the GRE. But the past is the past and my record since has been great. I'm about to start getting my masters because its required to make certain promotions in the AF now, but I am probably going to have to get it online because I'm not home on a regular enough schedule as my job means frequent 2-3 week overseas trips.

My commitment in the AF won't be up for a while now, so I'm thinking about things in a much more long-term way than most, though I take comfort in reading other threads in this Non-Trad category that I'm not alone. I probably won't be applying until 2014 at the earliest.

My questions (for now):
1. How much of an impact will my undergrad performance, both good and bad, have on my chances applying to medical school 10-15 years after the fact?
2. Are there any half-decent (or even half-semidecent) online masters programs out there that would be worthwhile to do if applying in 6-8 years?
3. What other advice, in the way of studying or otherwise preparing, would you have for someone thinking about it so far in advance?

I'm flying now and serving my country becasue that came up as a surprise opportunity that I couldn't turn down as I finshed college, but I always knew it would only be a temporary thing. The last few months as I've thought about this more and more I actually feel like I finall yknow what I want to do when I grow up! And its given me even more motivation to push myself even harder to be even better at what I'm already doing. And I want to start using that motivation towards opening up even more options for myself. And I find sentences started with the word "and" annoying. And I keep doing it...

Thanks!

Wow...at least you have a plan. When I seperated it took me nearly two years to get my head together.

 

[NMPilot]

Thanks to OTS delays I had a gap between college and the Air Force that taught me the hard way that I don't want to spend time trying to figure things out again when this is over. Plus, I figure there's no harm in long-term planning..

 

[thatfrickekid]

Thanks to OTS delays I had a gap between college and the Air Force that taught me the hard way that I don't want to spend time trying to figure things out again when this is over. Plus, I figure there's no harm in long-term planning..

Not at all. If I had any sense when I got out I would have gone to school immediately...I could have applied this year...

Oh well...lesson learned.

 

[NMPilot]

I'm hoping to get some (all?) of the prereqs done while still serving but I'm not sure the most efficient way of doing that since I'm so many years out. As time grows, I'll have a more regular schedule with flying missions. This year has already been much more "regular" than last. Maybe this time next year I might even be able to take a class in a classroom. But might that be too soon? Plus, I need to work on my masters ASAP. Kill two birds with one stone?

 

[thatfrickekid]

I'm hoping to get some (all?) of the prereqs done while still serving but I'm not sure the most efficient way of doing that since I'm so many years out. As time grows, I'll have a more regular schedule with flying missions. This year has already been much more "regular" than last. Maybe this time next year I might even be able to take a class in a classroom. But might that be too soon? Plus, I need to work on my masters ASAP. Kill two birds with one stone?

Well...I'm sure someone else on the site can give you better advice considering I still have two years of UG left...

...but know that many schools won't accept prereqs taken online, so if you don't have the time for the classroom now you may just have to wait until you're out...as much as that sucks.

 

[NMPilot]

Well, ya I figured as much on that. Especially with the lab requirements. I can only remember two of my classes being lab classes in college.. but neither were bio labs. As far as online stuff goes that's more to "check a box", as we say, for the AF now than anything. I was just wondering if anyone knew of any interesting programs that'd at least stimulate me and pave the road for working on prereqs later. I guess I'll change my above question to reflect that more accurately....

 

[kleo0986]

Hey there, I'm also in the AF, though I'm a newly commissioned Lt, so a little behind you

I'm not exactly sure how it works with pilots, but would you be able to possibly get an assignment as an instructor or test pilot? Not sure if that'd be an opportunity available to you, but if so it would possibly keep you in one place to get some classes done.

Secondly, if you have to do a masters for promotion, you could look into trying to find something loosely related to medicine. Not pre-reqs, but maybe some kind of heath field that could show an interest (medical ethics maybe?). I think it would be impossible to take the pre-reqs online, but I know there are anatomy/physiology classes online and the like that are again, related.

Also, maybe you could study spanish in your free time... I've heard from a lot of people that knowing spanish is a huge plus in the medical field

As for your long commitment, I have friends who have gotten out of their commitments to go to med school, if they plan to remain in the military after school. If that sounds like something you're interested in, then you might be able to go sooner. As far as I know, you just need to be released by your command, and then you're golden.

I hope that helps. I know its frustrating to not have the same flexibility that some of our civilian counterparts have, but military service looks great on the resume, so don't give up!

 

[NMPilot]

The instructor gig is exactly what I was thinking, actually. I should be finding out in a little while here where I'm headed next and hopefully it'll be somewhere more stable. As for the long commitment, I have no interest in staying in after going to medical school and working at what I call the "medical hobby shop". That's just me, though.. my experiences with military medicine as a patient are more than enough, thanks. Haha.

 

[lovethebomb]

The instructor gig is exactly what I was thinking, actually. I should be finding out in a little while here where I'm headed next and hopefully it'll be somewhere more stable. As for the long commitment, I have no interest in staying in after going to medical school and working at what I call the "medical hobby shop". That's just me, though.. my experiences with military medicine as a patient are more than enough, thanks. Haha.

Funny you mention the "medical hobby shop".. I'm an air force brat (you are one forever right??) and grew up in watching those doctors tinker around horribly at Wright Patt, Lakenheath, Norton AFB (CA) and Plattsburgh. Having been a gymnast and a child who actively outside of gymnastics ended up hurt often, I spent plenty of time with many types of doctors. To this day I can't recall one good one. Granted I hope today things are different because I'm not trying to say military medicine is that horrific, just many of our experiences haven't been convincing!

Where are you stationed? My sister and her husband whose active duty are currently in DC. She had to keep it in family, damn her!

 

[NMPilot]

Its not that there's no good ones out there. I don't blame the DOCTORS for military medicine being less than ideal. But whatever. That's another topic for another day.

I'm at McChord AFB in WA for now.

 

[thatfrickekid]

Funny you mention the "medical hobby shop".. I'm an air force brat (you are one forever right??) and grew up in watching those doctors tinker around horribly at Wright Patt, Lakenheath, Norton AFB (CA) and Plattsburgh. Having been a gymnast and a child who actively outside of gymnastics ended up hurt often, I spent plenty of time with many types of doctors. To this day I can't recall one good one. Granted I hope today things are different because I'm not trying to say military medicine is that horrific, just many of our experiences haven't been convincing!

Where are you stationed? My sister and her husband whose active duty are currently in DC. She had to keep it in family, damn her!

OMG...don't get me started on the buffoons at Lakenheath...They didn't even chart half of my medical visits...

...AND some bubble-head nurse tried to convince me that I had heat rash when I CLEARLY had hives...

Idiots.

 

[lovethebomb]

OMG...don't get me started on the buffoons at Lakenheath...They didn't even chart half of my medical visits...

...AND some bubble-head nurse tried to convince me that I had heat rash when I CLEARLY had hives...

Idiots.

Perhaps it was Lakenheath where my angry woes began considering I was born there and lived there for 8 years. Heh. There are great military docs out there, infact I agree there are. Just not one that we encountered in my air force years. Or I'm still fogged up about Lakenheath. Fun place as long as you weren't in the ER as often as I was.

 

[OncoCaP]

...
My questions (for now):
1. How much of an impact will my undergrad performance, both good and bad, have on my chances applying to medical school 10-15 years after the fact?
2.How should I go about meeting the needs for a Masters through the AF (probably online) and knocking out as many prereqs or at least preparing me for them ASAP?
3. What other advice, in the way of studying or otherwise preparing, would you have for someone thinking about it so far in advance?
...
Thanks!

1. Huge. Do a post-bacc after you get out and fix the GPA. You can do your pre-req's at the same time.
2. Master's level classes don't count toward your pre-reqs so don't do that for med school.
3. Wait until you get out and can concentrate on doing an excellent job and get perfect grades from a place that has a decent reputation for your post-bacc. Here is a very incomplete listing of some options: http://www.services.aamc.org/postbac/. When you get a little closer, ask about schools you are considering for your pre-med classes.

 

[NMPilot]

1. Huge. Do a post-bacc after you get out and fix the GPA. You can do your pre-req's at the same time.
2. Master's level classes don't count toward your pre-reqs so don't do that for med school.
3. Wait until you get out and can concentrate on doing an excellent job and get perfect grades from a place that has a decent reputation for your post-bacc. Here is a very incomplete listing of some options: http://www.services.aamc.org/postbac/. When you get a little closer, ask about schools you are considering for your pre-med classes.

Thanks-

About post-bacc... I'm new to this whole idea. My last experience with school was over 5 years ago getting my Bachelor's. Can I not just jump into a school in my area (OSU, UWF, UNM, TexTech, UNLV, etc..) and take pre-med classes as a non-degree student? I'd be the "old guy" taking those classes, and taking the evening and weekend ones when possible... but wouldn't that fill the same role? I'd also re-take classes I took in undergrad (orgo chem, bio, etc--not becuase I had bad grades; mostly B+/A-'s--but because I'd need the refresher) Or would I have to take a full-time load of classes.. something that'd be impossible while flying for the military? There was a time I might have thought about going to one of the very top notch medical schools, but that time passed nearly a decade ago now (wow).. so the strictest of application standards wouldn't apply to me. I'm all about practicality, and I doubt even more time passing will change that.. I'm a resident of NM if that helps.. but I'm way too far out to be thinking about specific schools. *shrug*

 

[AliveNkickin]

My questions (for now):
1. How much of an impact will my undergrad performance, both good and bad, have on my chances applying to medical school 10-15 years after the fact?
2.How should I go about meeting the needs for a Masters through the AF (probably online) and knocking out as many prereqs or at least preparing me for them ASAP?
3. What other advice, in the way of studying or otherwise preparing, would you have for someone thinking about it so far in advance?

1. I agree you need to do a post-bacc program and ace it. Think about retaking any classes you got a C in from 10-15 yrs ago.
2. Agree with the previous poster.
3. Pay off all your debts, establish the best credit score possible. Close any open credit lines that you'll never use (it takes 6 months for your FICO score to update). Consider getting some medical experience for your future app. Establish residency in location (NM?) where you will be situated long term. Lower your standard of living and prepare yourself both mentally and financially to live like a student again. Lobby and get the emotional support of your friends and family.

These are things I'm thinking about and doing to prepare myself. Good luck!

 

[kleo0986]

Ha, medical hobby shop. I agree totally, as a military brat and now active duty, I totally hear ya. Its too bad, but actually one of my reasons for wanting to separate after my commitment is to get away from tricare and military doctors... So I don't think I could ever be one either. <sigh>

As for taking classes as a non student, thats totally fine. I don't think adcoms expect older students to drop everything and be a fulltime student for the sake of it. Just concentrate on doing well, and one at a time is ok.

 

[Vith]

Capt,
You might have a hell of a time getting prereqs knocked out while still active. I switched majors last semester from "screwing around" to biology, and it was rough managing time for 2 lab classes, a 50 hour workweek, and a family. I had to pull teeth just to get to class on work days. The mission is always first, even if your mission is to fly a stack of papers across your desk.
I can't imagine trying to pull it off with a more high-profile job that required travel.

 

[spooge]

I always thought you had to have great projection to fly a football stadium. Sounds like your projection time for medical school is good here. I came from the Navy, but a little different story. I was an E-2 driver and the Navy had too many aviators. Long story short, I did what was best for my country and my family...I took the money and got out. So, I was planning on some form of medical school, but it came a lot sooner than expected. My advice is this: 1) Buy a house and pay it off ASAP. This is the biggest step in financial security and your stability. We paid our house off in less than four years thanks to the flight pay and bonus housing. I know as a Ltjg and Lt I made enough to pay off the house and the DVA loan was only 1.6% at the time. 2) Any kind of instructor job is awesome. I know that there were AF IP's flying at NAS pensacola teaching the navs how to do their jobs without throwing up. The money was good 100K+ and the work day...well...you know the work day...remember API, Primary, Intermediate and Advanced flight training...or do you guys do UPT...take the amount of time spent then and divide it by four. That is the amount of time you will spend as an IP. 3) I have shipmates in D school and med school that were part of the "reduction in naval aviation force" initiative and they did not go to fancy post bacc programs...I have a shipmate at UF SOM with a 3.1 GPA in Public Admin. He took the MCAT and scored a 28. He took his prereqs at a CC in central Florida. The only thing he was asked about at his interview was what it was like landing on an air craft carrier and what specialty does he want to do after graduating from UF SOM. You have real world skills and a special view into a world many people wish they could have. Exploit it. If you can make it through flight training, you can make it through school. 4) You are older, and if the AF trusts you enough to fly a 20 ton multi-million dollar aircraft you can make it through med school and you have the balls to make it through residency. Exploit your age and your experience. Imagine the person who is looking at the secondary apps saying " 23 y/o biology, 3.5, MCAT 30, volunteer work...snore...snore" then he or she gets to your app and reads "31 y/o , AF pilot..." you know the rest. She might even want to interview you to find out how confident you are about driving her. No lie...shipmate at UAB D school. Now they are married...

One more question...what is the kIAS for a C-17 taking off...no cargo?

 

[NMPilot]

I actually was fortunate enough to do the API/primary deal at Mainside and NASWF. I do very much enjoy the Navy way of life. When my bros at the UPT bases were getting their butts kicked in T-37s for 12 hours a day I was on the beach enjoying my days off between T-34 flights. Welll, until Hurricane Ivan that is. Lots of AF IPs at VT-3 actually, and its what my first choice for next assignment currently is. Lots of non-standard, non-airlift/C-17 assignments out there.. especially now w/ how fast the AF is changing. I'd even take a UAV to Creech or Cannon if it meant being in a more stable situation.

Glad to hear about not having to do a fancy post-bacc program. I'm not getting any younger and I'm sure I could manage doing the premed classes at my own pace over a couple years while on an IP or UAV tour. I think you're right about my age and experience being a huge bonus, especially at some places. I defiantely would have felt slightly less than confident right after college about the prospects of medical school and a residency. Now? Bring it on.

C-17 Vgo/Vrot with no cargo and a reasonable amount of gas to get somewhere is usually 110-115 kcas. On our EAS its actually a pretty common thing ORBI or ORBD to LTAG to take-off that empty. Its a fun climb to cruise when that empty. I think the lowest I've ever seen is 104 on the last takeoff of a training mission around the flagpole. I absolutely love flying that jet, and I'll miss it. But TACC? That is one institution I will not miss dealing with.

 

[Sun Dog]

If you are looking for something stable, ever consider palace chase to the reserves?? I'm a C-17 guy out of March back at school full time doing the prereqs and the reserves is definitely the way to go, a very sweet gig.

 

[NMPilot]

If you are looking for something stable, ever consider palace chase to the reserves?? I'm a C-17 guy out of March back at school full time doing the prereqs and the reserves is definitely the way to go, a very sweet gig.

Someone penciled in a "Palace Chase" button above the #3&4 IRU switches on the jet I flew a local on today, but the damn thing was inop as usual. Dang.

Palace chase is certainly an option, but truth is I want to ride out the active duty thing at least one more tour.. I'd like to do the UPT IP thing if at all possible... and because palace chase isn't on my radar quite yet I'm not even sure how to go about doing it. I'm sure I can ask some of the Reserve bubbas here at McChord some point.

 

[Vith]

Palace Chase may not even be a viable option for you, depending on how much time you have left in your current contract. As far as I understand it, you owe twice the amount of time in the reserve that you have left on your AD term. I don't know how well that would work considering you'd possibly have to move out of state for medical school. Even if you could arrange a transfer, the possibility of deployment in the middle of med school would be a concern.
I was looking into going guard or reserve when my enlistment ends next month, but ended up scrapping the idea when I sat down and considered how much time it would take out of studying, and how it could possibly tie me down somewhere I didn't want to be. YMMV, though.

 

[pokepilot]

Hey, you sound like you're in a similar but different situation to myself. I am just getting started into flight training with the USAF, but have been planning on going to med school eventually. (Also family full of docs, pharmacists, nurses, etc...and a liberal arts undergrad)

Have you looked at USUHS? what about a pilot-physician program? I'm not real sure about it all outside of what I read online. Anyway best of luck and keep me posted I'd love to hear how things unfold for you, maybe you can give me some pointers along the way!

 

[Pemberley]

Lab classes are, as you've already figured out, your #1 obstacle. It sounds like you might not be in very bad shape, if you've already taken OChem. Which lab classes do you have to go?

I didn't have a flight schedule to contend with, but I took some pre-reqs during my last year-and-a-half of active duty. Remember to check out your local community college. Remember for med school admissions -- it's the GRADE that counts, not the source. (I was stationed at Nellis; I couldn't take the medical pre-reqs at UNLV because they were always full before non-degree students got to register, but the local community college (CCSN) turned out to be great!) Get As at all costs. If you're starting this early, you can take only one pre-req at once and really do each one carefully.

Most check-the-box masters degrees simply will not play nicely with your medical school pre-reqs. Your best-case scenario would be that a local masters in biology or in a medically-related field would be available at a public school. Then you could get a masters (affordably) AND take some upper-level biology that might actually be interesting. Looks like there's a non-thesis MS program at WSU. Your main challenge, again, would be squeezing in the lab class -- but remember that you don't have to have all your pre-reqs done when you apply. I squeezed my last one in the summer before.

Be creative about WHICH biology classes you take. I couldn't stand the sound of the "standard" second semester freshman biology, so I took a different lab course instead, that was much more interesting.

I would recommend AGAINST re-taking orgo. I'd already forgotten all of it by the time my MCAT prep class came, and they re-taught me what I had to know to pass the MCAT. I have not needed any of it since. I would also recommend AGAINST a post-bacc. They are very expensive, and you will have much more control over your own schedule as a masters-degree or non-degree student.

DO take an MCAT prep course (toward the end of the process) and devote real time to it. Don't think about the MCAT now -- way too early.

DO think about where to establish residency if you PCS a time or two between now and when you separate.

DO be creative. Ask for exceptions when you need to. Ask for forgiveness after taking them where possible. You're not a traditional student, so decide what non-traditional things you want to do and make them happen.

Don't hesitate to PM with questions.