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usc vs ucla

Discussion in 'Ophthalmology: Eye Physicians & Surgeons' started by minterr, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. minterr

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    both are great programs it seems. I am not from LA or the west coast, so don't really have a handle for what the reputation of these programs is. is one more famous than the other? is one nicer? is one richer/have more funding?

    I like them both for different reasons:

    ucla = clinical volume
    usc = two very nice retina faculty members who interviewed me.

    I disliked things about each program as well
    ucla = large, perhaps fragmented faculty
    usc = lower clinical volume, many residents who talked about why they had gone to harvard med - and the program director initiated and participated fully in this conversation. I go to a good med school (top 5-6: take your pick of Penn, Wash U or Duke) but I had nothing to contribute to this conversation.

    hmm. don't know how to order this rank list!
     
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  3. baya

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    I don't think USC lacks clinical volume at all.

     
  4. minterr

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    usc is about 120 CE (not bad), very busy county hosp for clinics, but don't get as many surgeries as ucla, if I recall correctly. also, ucla residents often get to do vitrectomies, deep orbit surgery, etc if they are interested in that field.

    anybody remember ucla's cataract numbers?
     
  5. MacularStar

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    For whatever its worth... my overall impression is that UCLA is slightly more prestigious/better reputation as far as research and training goes.
     
  6. MacularStar

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    I don't think either USC or UCLA has a reputation of being particularly resident friendly, UCLA quite the opposite. If you want a "nice" top tier program where the residents are happy and get great training...go to Wills.
     
  7. skyriderfox

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    2nd that. UCLA def. is not very resident friendly and the county hospitals are 25 miles away from the main medical center in opposite directions. Volume is high though.
     
  8. MAYOphtho

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    Well I did an away rotation at USC-Doheny...and I never got the impression it was anything other than VERY resident friendly. Yes, they work hard but the faculty seemed VERY concerned with resident education/traning honestly. This is only based on a 6 week rotation, but that's how I felt while there.
     
  9. eycer

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    mayophtho (and others) - any thoughts on these programs vs ucsf?
     
  10. rubensan

    rubensan Senior Member
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    Both JSEI and Doheny are outstanding programs and you won't go wrong at either. Be prepared to work very hard at both programs. As someone who will be very involved in resident education at Doheny in the near future, I think the clinical and surgical volume at our program is very solid. This is what you can expect to do surgically at our program:



    Cataract Extractions: 140
    Muscle Operations: 20
    Enucleations and/or Eviscerations: 10
    Lid: 25
    Tear Sac Operations: 8
    Pterygia: 25
    Retinal Detachments (SBs, core vitrectomies): 15
    Glaucoma: 25
    Orbital Surgery: 15
    Extraocular Traumas: 45
    Intraocular Traumas: 40
    Photocoagulation Procedures: 250


    The residents meet with our Department Chair weekly to discuss everything from resident concerns to Optometric Scope. How many other Department Chairs do this? We also meet with our Program Director weekly. Many interviewees ask if we are "resident friendly?" If resident friendly means making sure that every resident in our program gets outstanding training and good fellowship/job placement after residency, then yes, we are resident friendly. If "resident friendly" means holding your hand every step of the way through a busy county program, then I'm not sure Doheny will do that for you. Again, a program will not make an outstanding ophthalmology resident. If you are motivated to learn and have a good work ethic, you will be an awesome resident at many programs.
     
  11. ReidWings

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    I don't know much about UCLA, but as for Doheny:

    To respond to the original post: I did not go to Harvard. Not everyone here did. If some people were proud of their med school, that is nothing to be ashamed of!

    As for calling Doheny "malignant," I agree wholeheartedly with the previous posts. Doheny is amazingly resident friendly. It is a very tough program and we work very hard, but we have great support from the faculty. From our weekly meetings with the chairman to our chief of service, we always have someone looking after us and helping us with any issues we may have.

    The strengths of Doheny are the county hospital and the attendings. The attendings at Doheny are amazing. The first week you are here, you get all their cell phone numbers and can call them anytime with any questions you have. (Not sure how that is malignant?) You can email them patient photos/FAs anytime and they'll get back to you with their opinion on the case.

    That being said, we work very hard. If you don't want to work hard, Doheny is not a good place for you. If you are lazy and aren't excited about learning, you'll find yourself in a difficult position. But really that is probably true of anywhere, especially the top programs. Hopefully if you are interviewing at the likes of Doheny and UCLA, you are a pretty motivated person.

    If you have any questions about Doheny, feel free to message myself or Ruben anytime. We're always happy to help!

    Reid Wainess, MD
    PGY 2 Doheny Eye Institute
     
  12. Hankz

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    How would you rank ucla vs usc now after the doheny split, taking into account the strength of surgical training and resident-friendliness?
     
  13. medstudent9999

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    I think both programs are absolutely top notch and offers basically everything you want from a residency program. This is the feeling I got from both programs:

    UCLA seemed like an awesome place from the start. Their little campus is definitely very pretty. For research, there are a lot of faculty so I'm sure you'll find interesting research to do. Clinical training is great with a variety of training at VAs, counties, and academics. The fellowship match is great but from the handout they distributed about where graduates are working, many people end up in private practice. Plenty of all star faculty but I felt the stereotype of hierarchy held up with a pretty formal relationship between resident and attending. Not 100% negative, but I felt like USC had a really close relationship with their faculty especially the PD and associate PD. I also got a sense that the residents weren't the tightest knit group because there are so many training sites. One of the residents told me that she never had a rotation with one of the other residents until the end of PGY-3. Lastly, everyone always talks about all the driving to the different sites. I heard so many different things about there's really never traffic or there's a ton of traffic. I have a friend that did residency there and, after some coaxing, finally said that there will always be traffic in LA and the commute does get long often.

    USC seems to offer an awesome residency program, too. I thought their presentation of each sub-specialty was nice and there seems to be a ton of interesting projects for residents to join. Clinical training I think is pretty similar with UCLA because USC residents seem to see loads of pathology with a VA, county, and academic practice. Great fellowship match as well. I think the biggest difference between USC and UCLA for me were the interactions with the faculty and the interactions I saw between the residents. I really liked my interviews with all the faculty and can see myself really enjoying interacting with them. The residents absolutely seemed like they knew each other well and I liked that they all worked a centralized location. I think the UCLA residents were cool and awesome people too, don't get me wrong, but I just liked the vibe I got from USC.

    In terms of the split USC seems to be doing pretty well after going separate ways with Doheny. From listening to what UCLA and USC have to say about it, it seems like USC retained most of their big faculty (people like Sadda and Sadun are gone though) but still have people like Varma, Humayun, and Puliafito. Apparently, Doheny might try to do its own residency program in the distant future but nothing set in stone yet. I don't think the UCLA residents actually interact with the Doheny faculty too much since they are at clinical sites pretty far from UCLA.

    In the end, I think UCLA and USC are both no brainers to be #1 on any rank list. Training in LA weather? Unbeatable. Both programs can get you anywhere you want to go in ophthalmology and train you very well surgically. The biggest difference I noticed was, like I mentioned, the resident-friendliness that I thought was better at USC.
     
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  14. docta9

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    Comments?
     
  15. dantt

    dantt Member
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    USCs lobby and elevators have signs saying UCLA is #5 behind bascom wills wilmer and mass eye.
     
  16. Pinkertinkle

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    Puliafito and varma aren't necessarily the easiest to get along with for faculty. Prior to the doheny split the two programs were pretty much on equal terms with slight advantage to JSEI. However after USC loosing so many faculty to the split, JSEI definitely has the edge now. As a matter of day to day I don't think it changed much since USC residents are basically at LA county most of the time. Jules Stein has its own issues of long work hours and poor supervision at some of the peripheral locales and a lot of traffic/driving. If i were ranking them again I would rank JSEI higher.
     
  17. Eyefixer

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    One piece of information that has not been advertised this year by Ucla is that their resident did not match this year and took an outside the match position in medical retina. All USC residents matched and at the place of their choice- it says a lot about the program.

    In the last 2 years USC changed its residency 100 percent: still at county with awesome population and little driving plus new didactics series that resulted in high okaps last year.

    I am not affiliated with USC personally, and have been in practice for 10 years.
     
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  18. DrZeke

    DrZeke yzarc gniog ylwolS
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    Thanks for that insight. I had also heard the USC has drastically changed with a lot more supervision during surgery. Seems like a great place.
     
  19. victsing

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    As someone who interviewed at both this past season, I thought that they were both very similar and I personally gave a slight edge to UCLA. because of the interview day experiences. UCLA probably had one of the most personable interview days as the PDs literally knew our applications inside and out which was a nice change of pace compared to other programs.

    From the resident's perspective, the split with Doheney didn't seem to hurt the residents at USC as much as I expected nor did it help the residents at UCLA as much as I expected. Like someone mentioned earlier, Doheney is hoping to start its own residency program...
     
  20. DrMassacre

    DrMassacre Junior Member
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    I have heard very negative things about both Varma and Puliafito when I was in fellowship. As a disclaimer, Im not associated with UCLA or USC in any way.
     
  21. Bubchik

    Bubchik Senior Member
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    I wish I saw this prior to this year match.

    Disclaimer: I am a recent faculty addition at USC.

    In the last two years everything changed at USC lac except location- 100 percent supervision by faculty in OR and clinic; high okaps scores; protected academic time every Friday morning until 1 pm. Yes- this is the only program in the country where residents have a half day off from clinic and OR for a lecture, wet lab, or free study time. The curriculum follows bcsc series with 6-8 weeks in each specialty/subject. Residents are sent to a review course ( San Antonio last year) prior to okaps. All matched to the fellowship and location of their choice this year.

    New faculty is energetic and approachable. When I interviewed here for residency a few years back- residents were overworked and unhappy- huge difference now. I did not rank it when I applied, if I had to do it all over again- this would have been my top choice.

    In reference to UCLA postings in the building: USC is number 8 or 9, therefore they only listed up to 7 on their advertisement. Oh well, could have done top 10 to be fair.

    Doheny/stein faculty are outstanding as well as their research but we are not far behind.

    As far as Varma / paulifito. Don't trust the rumors talk to the residents/fellows that just graduated. They have nothing to lose.

    We matched a strong class this year and looking forward to meeting new applicants next cycle.
     
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  22. dantt

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    Isn't this exactly who you should trust? Those residents/fellows obviously had some ax to grind and were under constant fear of retaliation to speak out.

    The chairman and dean are very well known and if they vouch for you, it may get you places. I wouldn't count on being "buddies" with them.
     
    #21 dantt, Jan 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  23. Eyefixer

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    It's not clear what you are trying to say. Are you saying one should trust the rumors? What residents/fellows have an axe to grind? Bubchik clearly suggests to speak with recent graduates who have nothing to loose, not someone who is under constant fear of retaliation. Also, who wants to be "buddies" with DEAN OF MEDICAL school? This is a kind of person who can make or break careers. Why would you even want to be "buddies" with a person like that? I say you'd want a professional relationship with him. Bubchik was saying that new faculty is young, energetic and approachable; not Varma or Paulofito.
     
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  24. OphthoApp

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    No I think he/she is saying that you'll get a real answer. If you talk to an ex resident you will get honest answers, whereas you will of course only hear positives from current residents. So I think the point is that if an ex resident says positive things you know it's truthful since they have nothing to lose at this point.
     
  25. Eyefixer

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    Lol. This is EXACTLY what Bubchik was saying. Dude, are you ok?
     
  26. dantt

    dantt Member
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    Bubchik said "don't trust the rumors..." is my understanding of English that bad?
     
  27. Eyefixer

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    Bubchik said "don't trust the rumors..." is my understanding of English that bad?


    "As far as Varma / paulifito. Don't trust the rumors talk to the residents/fellows that just graduated. They have nothing to lose"

    Does this make sense now?
     
  28. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
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    Ex residents and fellows still want to protect the reputation of the program they graduated from. No one is completely unbiased in this.
     
  29. Bubchik

    Bubchik Senior Member
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    Best way to put rumors to rest- come do a rotation with us if you are thinking about applying here. It can be 2 weeks or more- specialty of your choice or combo. This is the best way to see the residency and faculty. We vouched to accommodate all Med students and have had plenty rotating last year. If anything- 2 weeks in LA can be a nice mini vacation.
     
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