Use of marijuana among health professionals

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673441

Hey everyone,

I ran across an interesting study that 76% of doctors agree with the use of medical marijuana. This got me thinking, how many doctors actually smoke? I looked at various sources and from what I can make from the .gov/.edu sources is 3% admitted in anonymous surveys to smoking marijuana regularly!!! That's really shocking to me considering the fairly large subset of medical students I saw smoking marijuana on occasion when out at the bars and stuff. I understand this topic is sort of taboo, but let's approach this from a purely educational standpoint. Do you guys think marijuana use among med students and health care providers is a serious issue?


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Do you have a link to the study? I'm not really sure how big of an issue the mary j is for healthcare providers but then again I don't really pay too much attention to that. Though I do still get surprised how many doctors and cancer researchers actually still smoke cigarettes.
 
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At my medical school, I'd say a solid 10-20% smoked regularly, and at least 25% used MJ at least once during medical school, if not multiple times. I have no idea what the actual use is like in practice.

No, I don't think it's a serious issue, but then again I don't think what you do in your own time is the business of your employer or regulating agencies if you are able to do your job well without consequence. MJ is, by happenstance, a problem simply because there are no good ways to differentiate acute intoxication vs. intoxication at some point in the past. And in the case of the latter, that time period may be anywhere from a few days to up to a month.

If someone wants to take a week-long vacation to Colorado and smoke a few joints while they're there, I don't care. But if they get a drug test when they get back, the Powers That Be can't reasonably determine if they smoked a joint an hour before the test or a week ago when they weren't even at work.
 
567WingsO'Heaven said:
Do you guys think marijuana use among med students and health care providers is a serious issue?
Click to expand...

No. As NickNaylor said, the real problem is that we cannot accurately distinguish between acute intoxication and past use. Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with marijuana use among doctors, as long as it is timed appropriately (e.g., on a weekend). I have friends who claim to operate at normal capacity when high, but this is not the case for... ahem... everyone.
 
I have heard that some external clinical sites that my school is partnered with do and have tested students for drug use. For that reason, it was never really worth the risk for me personally. But if I had to guess, I'd say a solid fifth of my class probably smokes at least once every couple of months with a few smoking regularly.
 
We have to look at the responsibility of the student, of course it's a general question. I think everyone can answer this question on their own really. Take a few things in to account... Is it going to effect your work day? Am I timing this appropriately? Is it legal in my state? There can be serious repercussions for physicians in regards to any form of drug usage if it's not legal.

The main question is will it effect your job and is it legal? If you can answer no it effecting your job, and yes it's legal in my state. I don't see why a physician or medical care professional couldn't do so in their free-time of course if used responsibly.
 
Dave89 said:
No. As NickNaylor said, the real problem is that we cannot accurately distinguish between acute intoxication and past use. Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with marijuana use among doctors, as long as it is timed appropriately (e.g., on a weekend). I have friends who claim to operate at normal capacity when high, but this is not the case for... ahem... everyone.
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Who keeps letting you out of the SPF? Have they gotten lazy with the locks? 😉
 
I know a fair amount of people who smoke every once in a while. As for me...I see my body/brain as a temple, and I have no intention of letting it be impaired by smoking or excess drinking. My vice is caffeine.
 
marijuana is harmless. our draconian drug laws in the US are so disappointing
 
cosine89 said:
marijuana is harmless. our draconian drug laws in the US are so disappointing
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Yeah, that's just plain not true. Its not as bad as the law would suggest, but to think its completely harmless shows a startling ignorance.
 
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I'd say that a solid 20-40% of the students in my original medical school class smoked regularly. Our dean knew this and prepped us for our MS1 drug test by giving us a 2 month scheduling window and then telling us that it was "more of an intelligence test than anything else".

I don't think MJ use is wrong, it's legal in my state, and I will argue for anyone's right to make their own decisions like a grow-up...but I don't personally think it's worth the chance of having a positive drug test pop up. There is one particularly poignant moment from my MS3 IM rotation where a patient's (obviously borderline) parent went off on a rant, stormed into the hallway, and accused the senior resident of being drunk. The school took the claim seriously, locked him out of the EMR, and sent him off to a local hospital to be immediately drug and alcohol tested. Everything came back negative and he was fine, but holy ***. Not worth it.
 
I think alcohol is, without a doubt, the bigger substance issue amongst medical students. The binge drinking ive seen after exams can get out of control. That kind lf stuff is honestly MORE likely to get you in legal trouble than smoking pot nowadays. Times are changing.

Personally, I'm of the thought that both drugs can be used responsibly.
 
URHere said:
There is one particularly poignant moment from my MS3 IM rotation where a patient's (obviously borderline) parent went off on a rant, stormed into the hallway, and accused the senior resident of being drunk. The school took the claim seriously, locked him out of the EMR, and sent him off to a local hospital to be immediately drug and alcohol tested. Everything came back negative and he was fine, but holy ***. Not worth it.
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That's an enlightening story. I'm guessing if the drug test had come back positive for anything he would have been in a really bad spot or at least facing an uphill fight, despite him being sober at the time.
 
Marijuana is really effective for medicinal use. Giving chemo patients the munchies is really helpful. And of course, the antidepressant effects without the side effects of SSRI's
 
O731 said:
Marijuana is really effective for medicinal use. Giving chemo patients the munchies is really helpful. And of course, the antidepressant effects without the side effects of SSRI's
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Are there any human data for this or are you just extrapolating small animal studies and assuming the effects hold true in people?
 
I think at least 10% of med students smoke marijuana.
 
mcloaf said:
Are there any human data for this or are you just extrapolating small animal studies and assuming the effects hold true in people?
Click to expand...

My dad is an oncologist and told me that they prescribe it for those reasons.

Edit: Oh wait, this is in regards to the bolded. I have no idea, but marijuana gets you high and chilled out (I don't smoke it). Hell, if my patient doesn't have a family history of psychosis or any psychriatic issues I would rather prescribe them with medical marijuana (the pill kind) instead of SSRI's.
 
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O731 said:
My dad is an oncologist and told me that they prescribe it for those reasons.

Edit: Oh wait, this is in regards to the bolded. I have no idea, but marijuana gets you high and chilled out (I don't smoke it).
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Dude this is a forum for medical students, if you're going to make implications about using drugs for treatment of a disease (and do so by comparing them to gold standard medications and saying they have fewer side effects) come with data; or ffs at least do better than "the stoner kid down the hall smokes all the time and seems pretty chill."
 
Well I just talked with an oncologist and he told me they give marijuana pills (marinol) to "make patients feel good, reduce nausea, and stimulate appetite" so I'm assuming that means it's not uncommon to use it, at least for chemotherapy patients.


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O731 said:
My dad is an oncologist and told me that they prescribe it for those reasons.

Edit: Oh wait, this is in regards to the bolded. I have no idea, but marijuana gets you high and chilled out (I don't smoke it). Hell, if my patient doesn't have a family history of psychosis or any psychriatic issues I would rather prescribe them with medical marijuana (the pill kind) instead of SSRI's.
Click to expand...
A side effect of marijuana is a decrease in motivation. I am pretty sure that my patients with depression won't do well with even less motivation. Also, there are some negative cognitive effects of both depression and marijuana, but then again thinking clearly is so overrated. 🙄
 
smalltownpsych said:
A side effect of marijuana is a decrease in motivation. I am pretty sure that my patients with depression won't do well with even less motivation. Also, there are some negative cognitive effects of both depression and marijuana, but then again thinking clearly is so overrated. 🙄
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We're talking about easing the burden of chemotherapy here by helping with the reduced appetite, reducing nausea, and promoting relaxation. I don't mean to say a patient can just go and roll some fat j's when he feels a little depressed. I'm talking about controlled medicinal use, with the right dosage and for the appropriate symptoms.
 
O731 said:
We're talking about easing the burden of chemotherapy here. I don't mean to say a patient can just go and roll some fat j's when he feels a little depressed. I'm talking about controlled medicinal use, with the right dosage and for the appropriate symptoms.
Click to expand...
You said that you would recommend marijuana over ssri's, that's what I was challenging. We've all heard that marijuana can be helpful for patients going through chemo although I don't know the literature on that since it is outside my specialty. I will say that I have not seen any research that shows a benefit for depression with marijuana use. What I see everyday in my practice is the complete opposite. We had this discussion about PTSD as well and there is no good evidence to support beneficial effects of marijuana use and much evidence that it can make your life worse.
 
smalltownpsych said:
You said that you would recommend marijuana over ssri's, that's what I was challenging. We've all heard that marijuana can be helpful for patients going through chemo although I don't know the literature on that since it is outside my specialty. I will say that I have not seen any research that shows a benefit for depression with marijuana use. What I see everyday in my practice is the complete opposite. We had this discussion about PTSD as well and there is no good evidence to support beneficial effects of marijuana use and much evidence that it can make your life worse.
Click to expand...

Well I can't argue with that since my statement in regards to treating depression with it was anecdotal.
 
It sorta goes almost without saying that we do whatever for patients with serious cancer getting chemo
- we give them whatever they want that makes them feel good that we can Rx and not be outside standard of care

Want some opiates? benzos? Ambien? Med MJ? woo hoo have at it!

that's why I like those patients. You can have a much freer hand.
 
I dunno the most interesting thing about the OP's post to me was that the survey (most likely) vastly underreported the number of health professionals who actually use marijuana. Which speaks to the need to keep it very much on the DL if one does smoke due to stigma, fear, and, oh yeah, it's still illegal under federal law. Pretty screwy business.
 
Amphetamine use, prescribed and not, is a much bigger issue at my school. The doses some of my classmates took daily in preclinical were completely absurd.
 
http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/co-occurring/marijuana_use_ptsd_veterans.asp
scroll down to "marijuana as a treatment for PTSD"

They're doing an RCT on smoked cannabis for PTSD right now: http://www.maps.org/research/mmj/marijuana-us

Just because there are no RCT results at this time does not mean it is ineffective. I have had a lot of first had accounts from patients in the VA who claim it helps for PTSD, and I've certainly seen it help for opiate w/d while working in an addiction psych fellowship. That said, there are risks to it too. Keep an open mind, y'all!
 
It's a huge issue. Even if it's legal you can lose your license and be sent to rehab and ruin your career. Don't smoke, don't prescribe, and for heaven's sake don't practice medicine while high. What in the world are y'all thinking????
 
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