Using Religion as Focal Point in Personal Statement?

[YungMufti]

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As a reapplicant having taken a cycle off in the interim, I'm significantly revamping my PS (as well as much of my app). I have spent much of my time off in the Middle East/North Africa region learning/practicing Quranic exegesis and related jurisprudential scholarship - much of this was done in an attempt to do what I think truly matters and in the process discover whether I thought medical school was truly the correct path for me (following my first unsuccessful attempt). At the conclusion of my experiences I am determined to reapply and pursue my calling as a physician, however, I am not sure what the reception would be of explaining my journey in my PS.

I would love to hear opinions on whether or not it is appropriate to have religion play heavily into motivations to pursue medicine. I can provide specifics if it is helpful, but the essence is that religion has provided for me a minimally-arbitrary philosophy upon which to establish values and as such a coherent system of ethics, which extends in my case to a career in medicine. I do of course discuss other experiences in the PS, as they relate to my motivations.

One issue is that even if I avoid talking about religion in my PS, I have a book accepted for print on a religious topic (nothing prestigious - I won't give the title for privacy reasons, but it is a comparison of a Nietzsche text and Ibn Taymiyya's Usul al-Iman) and one of my LORs will be from a prominent Sunni jurisprudential scholar. As such, religion will be a theme in my app regardless. I have other topics to write a PS about if need be.

Any thoughts are welcome - thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

There are some schools that will welcome it.
Many will be neutral.
Some will be confused.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@YungMufti To be blunt, this is just you attempting to sell a gap year doing something that you would have done regardless. Right?

 

[YungMufti]

@YungMufti To be blunt, this is just you attempting to sell a gap year doing something that you would have done regardless. Right?

I always appreciate bluntness, and I assume you will appreciate reciprocation. I don't see how I would have done it 'regardless' since I would not have done it had I experienced success in my first cycle. (As an aside - how is a gap year spent doing something a person would have otherwise done an axiomatically wrong thing which needs explanation? By definition, anyone would have done a thing they would have 'done regardless'.)

While you may be justifiably jaded by the general premed lack of honestly, this is not an attempt to sell anything, and anyone who would devalue my gap year's use of time is not worth my time either present or future. Considering I literally wrote a book on the scholastic progress I made during the year, I hardly feel a need to justify the time spent. Rather, I would use the PS to discuss the personal growth experienced during said activities. Again, the religious aspect of it is the foundation of an ethos. My case is that a clearly-defined and solidly-grounded ethos is imperative in making a mature decision to be a physician.

 

[YungMufti]

There are some schools that will welcome it.
Many will be neutral.
Some will be confused.

Can you elaborate on the source of confusion? If I could clear up this concern, perhaps I would end up with a more generally palatable strategy.

 

[gyngyn]

Can you elaborate on the source of confusion? If I could clear up this concern, perhaps I would end up with a more generally palatable strategy.

Many schools on the coasts are unaccustomed to religion playing a central role in motivations for medicine.
Loma Linda and public schools in the South (I'm told) do seem to get a religious bent to their applications.

 

[Bonejorno]

I think you should focus on the physical things that you did, such as writing a book instead of going into religion and philosophy. At best, I think it’s too abstract. At worst, it’s bringing religion into medicine. At even worst-er, more conservative schools in the south won’t even look at you.

 

[Goro]

As a reapplicant having taken a cycle off in the interim, I'm significantly revamping my PS (as well as much of my app). I have spent much of my time off in the Middle East/North Africa region learning/practicing Quranic exegesis and related jurisprudential scholarship - much of this was done in an attempt to do what I think truly matters and in the process discover whether I thought medical school was truly the correct path for me (following my first unsuccessful attempt). At the conclusion of my experiences I am determined to reapply and pursue my calling as a physician, however, I am not sure what the reception would be of explaining my journey in my PS.

I would love to hear opinions on whether or not it is appropriate to have religion play heavily into motivations to pursue medicine. I can provide specifics if it is helpful, but the essence is that religion has provided for me a minimally-arbitrary philosophy upon which to establish values and as such a coherent system of ethics, which extends in my case to a career in medicine. I do of course discuss other experiences in the PS, as they relate to my motivations.

One issue is that even if I avoid talking about religion in my PS, I have a book accepted for print on a religious topic (nothing prestigious - I won't give the title for privacy reasons, but it is a comparison of a Nietzsche text and Ibn Taymiyya's Usul al-Iman) and one of my LORs will be from a prominent Sunni jurisprudential scholar. As such, religion will be a theme in my app regardless. I have other topics to write a PS about if need be.

Any thoughts are welcome - thanks!

Not something that flies well with me, having had to deal with a God-intoxicated fool of a doctor who was treating my in-laws.

 

[IMGASMD]

“I” wouldn’t. Since you value bluntness, I will start that way, while I am waiting for my 5 year old computer to boot up.

You’re at best a few points above the average applicant, at worst below average, by the virtue of you will be a re-applicant. If you have MCAT of 520, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. When you’re “exceptional” you have much more wiggle room.

Most physicians are trained to be doers and believers of evidence. By making your PS focusing on something that “I” don’t do on a regular basis, makes me thinking that you may not be similar to me.

My last point is the extension of the above. Most Americans don’t know the different between Sunni and Shia. Just like most Asians don’t know the differences between a presbyterian and catholic. If I had to fight for someone who I am not familiar with or someone who is, guess which one I will try a little harder?

Mention it as part of who you are. Make the “action” part of connecting with your culture or religion, Not the religion itself.

Make sure you get the interviews should be your focus. If anyone is interested during them, you can continue.

I will also be very honest with you, I did not understand nor care to lookup what all those foreign words really mean. Even if you let me know of the title of your book, the chance of me looking for it or actually read it, is very close to 0. I would not imaging the general population in the US is much different than me.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@YungMufti You already stated that you have a book accepted in print. So I assumed that religiosity had always been a topic of interest for you since it's rare that someone would start banging a manuscript on intersectionality between Niezteche and a 1300's Sunni theologian due to having an unsuccessful application cycle.

 

[Isoval]

I would be careful and pick your battles.

This is something more benign than, but not unlike, politics.

As per Goro and Gyngyn - some schools will love it, some schools don’t care, and some schools will hate it. That’s the line you walk when you pick a historically and culturally divisive subject like religion.

My personal recommendation (as a med student and not an adcom) is to take this route only if you write the essay in what I would describe as an academic tone. In other words, speak of the religion in as abstract and neutral a way that you can while keeping the message of your essay intact. If you can’t do that, I can’t recommend the essay topic simply because it’s something that’s sure to prove divisive.

 

[deleted889094]

As long as it's clear that it is part of your motivation for medicine, I don't see a problem. I wouldn't make it a strong focus because the PS should be abouy many different things. (Motivations, qualifications, experiences, goals, etc.)

I am pretty devout myself, (different religion) but I didn't see a need to bring it up in my case because I don't think it influenced why I wanted to pursue medicine. Really, it more gave me assurance that I would still find my way if I couldn't end up doing medicine.

TLDR: Remember that PS is more than just who you are on a personal level

 

[907914]

So, I have taken myself off the PS reader list, but if you do end up going this route I would gladly provide you feedback on it if you would like. There is no harm in writing a first draft and having someone read it. I can and will be blunt with you if it does not work to properly address “why me/why medicine?”

I am personally a diehard atheist, however the study of religion and the various cultural, historical and philosophical implications have always fascinated me (I have an annotated bible, Quran and a few Hindu epics. I love the stuff). This would definitely be something I would love to read and provide you feedback on.

 

[YungMufti]

Not something that flies well with me, having had to deal with a God-intoxicated fool of a doctor who was treating my in-laws.

“I” wouldn’t. Since you value bluntness, I will start that way, while I am waiting for my 5 year old computer to boot up.

You’re at best a few points above the average applicant, at worst below average, by the virtue of you will be a re-applicant. If you have MCAT of 520, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. When you’re “exceptional” you have much more wiggle room.

Most physicians are trained to be doers and believers of evidence. By making your PS focusing on something that “I” don’t do on a regular basis, makes me thinking that you may not be similar to me.

My last point is the extension of the above. Most Americans don’t know the different between Sunni and Shia. Just like most Asians don’t know the differences between a presbyterian and catholic. If I had to fight for someone who I am not familiar with or someone who is, guess which one I will try a little harder?

Mention it as part of who you are. Make the “action” part of connecting with your culture or religion, Not the religion itself.

Make sure you get the interviews should be your focus. If anyone is interested during them, you can continue.

I will also be very honest with you, I did not understand nor care to lookup what all those foreign words really mean. Even if you let me know of the title of your book, the chance of me looking for it or actually read it, is very close to 0. I would not imaging the general population in the US is much different than me.

I would be careful and pick your battles.

This is something more benign than, but not unlike, politics.

As per Goro and Gyngyn - some schools will love it, some schools don’t care, and some schools will hate it. That’s the line you walk when you pick a historically and culturally divisive subject like religion.

My personal recommendation (as a med student and not an adcom) is to take this route only if you write the essay in what I would describe as an academic tone. In other words, speak of the religion in as abstract and neutral a way that you can while keeping the message of your essay intact. If you can’t do that, I can’t recommend the essay topic simply because it’s something that’s sure to prove divisive.

It sounds like it's just too high-risk of a topic. I would hardly call myself God-intoxicated, but I would not want to risk that appearance, especially if it comes across even from posts like these. I suppose I may have spent so much time around/in it that I lost a sense of how odd I sound, lol.

While it's concerning to hear that an adcom (or anyone, really) would lobby harder for someone with a familiar religion as opposed to a 'foreign' one, I suppose this is a realistic view with which I will have to contend (even if that was/is conjecture). I'll mention my work in academic terms, leaving the body of the PS for other activities/experiences/motivations. Even in academic terms it'll probably be too abstract, so I'll minimize even that. Thanks to everyone for the input!

@MemeLord a special thanks for offering to read my work - I'll let you know if I ever decide it would be helpful!

 

[deleted480308]

It sounds like it's just too high-risk of a topic. I would hardly call myself God-intoxicated, but I would not want to risk that appearance, especially if it comes across even from posts like these. I suppose I may have spent so much time around/in it that I lost a sense of how odd I sound, lol.

While it's concerning to hear that an adcom (or anyone, really) would lobby harder for someone with a familiar religion as opposed to a 'foreign' one, I suppose this is a realistic view with which I will have to contend (even if that was/is conjecture). I'll mention my work in academic terms, leaving the body of the PS for other activities/experiences/motivations. Even in academic terms it'll probably be too abstract, so I'll minimize even that. Thanks to everyone for the input!

@MemeLord a special thanks for offering to read my work - I'll let you know if I ever decide it would be helpful!

Be prepared to answer something along the lines of “describe your interactions with the jewish and lgbt communities”

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

1) I'd write a draft at the very least to see how it goes. have people in the medical field/advisors read over it to gauge their opinions.
2) If this were me, I wouldn't run the risk of putting religion into a PS due to biases (even implicit bias) towards that topic. Med school is hard enough to get into (as you experienced), no need to possibly put yourself in an "awkward" situation with some schools when an average PS would suffice and please the masses.
3) If you're a risk taker and apply broadly, I am sure at least one school would find your PS unique and interesting.
4) Instead of making your religious journey (gap year) the focal point, I'd make "Why doc" the focal point and sprinkle details about your experience.

Good luck ~

 

[YungMufti]

Be prepared to answer something along the lines of “describe your interactions with the jewish and lgbt communities”

At this point in my life, I know how to respond to the virulent ignorance of Islamophobes. Thank you for validating my years of preparation.

 

[deleted480308]

At this point in my life, I know how to respond to the virulent ignorance of Islamophobes. Thank you for validating my years of preparation.

Unruffle your feathers

I had to answer some of that with a lot of religion in my application as well. For what it’s worth, you didn’t do well just now, that type of reaction will harm you as an applicant

Play the game or get played by it

 

[YungMufti]

Unruffle your feathers

I had to answer some of that with a lot of religion in my application as well. For what it’s worth, you didn’t do well just now, that type of reaction will harm you as an applicant

Play the game or get played by it

You were really asked things like that in an interview? Intuitively, that seems to be on questionable legal ground. It contains a baseline assumption that an individual member of a group is a racist until proven otherwise.

 

[deleted480308]

You were really asked things like that in an interview? Intuitively, that seems to be on questionable legal ground. It contains a baseline assumption that an individual member of a group is a racist until proven otherwise.

That’s not what racist means.

And if you put it in your app, it’s fair game. They don’t get to ask what your religion is but if you mention it they get to explore that with you. Talk about your christianity and you might get asked about how you handle referring a patient who wants an abortion or lgbt questions. Talk about your atheism and you might be asked accomodating religious folks beliefs in their conversations. Talk about your kids and get asked about work/life balance. Talk about a year of religious islamic study and writing a book comparing your faith to others and you absolutely might get asked about how you interact with those your faith is often perceived to have disagreements with.....it’s the game you need to get ready for

I’m not blasting you here, I’m preparing you for the reality you are going to face

 

[IMGASMD]

While it's concerning to hear that an adcom (or anyone, really) would lobby harder for someone with a familiar religion as opposed to a 'foreign' one, I suppose this is a realistic view with which I will have to contend (even if that was/is conjecture).

It’s only human nature. We are drawn to what we are familiar with. I was going to let the rest slide, since you did pretty well taken everything in. Until I saw your answer assuming Islamphobia is in play.

They were “foreign words” to me. I never said this is a foreign religion. Just like you may not want to teach me about these words (concepts); I really don’t have the time to look them up either. (Nor do I have the desire).

Just like sexual orientations, family planning, politics and whatever taboo topics should not be talked about during residency interviews. As you can see from your own responses/reactions and hopefully all others, religion should not be the “focus” of your PS. It can open up a can of worms that no one wants to touch.

 

[YungMufti]

That’s not what racist means.

And if you put it in your app, it’s fair game. They don’t get to ask what your religion is but if you mention it they get to explore that with you. Talk about your christianity and you might get asked about how you handle referring a patient who wants an abortion or lgbt questions. Talk about your atheism and you might be asked accomodating religious folks beliefs in their conversations. Talk about your kids and get asked about work/life balance. Talk about a year of religious islamic study and writing a book comparing your faith to others and you absolutely might get asked about how you interact with those your faith is often perceived to have disagreements with.....it’s the game you need to get ready for

I’m not blasting you here, I’m preparing you for the reality you are going to face

It’s only human nature. We are drawn to what we are familiar with. I was going to let the rest slide, since you did pretty well taken everything in. Until I saw your answer assuming Islamphobia is in play.

They were “foreign words” to me. I never said this is a foreign religion. Just like you may not want to teach me about these words (concepts); I really don’t have the time to look them up either. (Nor do I have the desire).

Just like sexual orientations, family planning, politics and whatever taboo topics should not be talked about during residency interviews. As you can see from your own responses/reactions and hopefully all others, religion should not be the “focus” of your PS. It can open up a can of worms that no one wants to touch.

@sb247 I'll assume you're being genuine here, and as such, thank you for trying to help. Yours would make the first time in my life that references to my interactions with the Jewish and LGBT communities have been made in good faith, so, again, if genuine, it is refreshing to hear a comment like this in a non-malicious manner. However, my statement that I am prepared to deal with common and usually ill-informed perceptions of my group still stands.

@IMGASMD don't feel a need to defend yourself, I don't think it would be reasonable to perceive malice from your posts. Thanks for the input. As to whether or not Islamophobia is 'in play' - that isn't up to me. Unfortunately for me, I have to live as if it is, always and everywhere (and especially when people have the veil of the internet). But again, you didn't say anything I found to be an issue. I'll explain my project in academic terms as people have suggested and stay away from it as a focus.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't think it's a terrible idea to include this sort of thing in your personal statement, but I definitely don't think it should be the "focus" as you ask in your thread title. The PS is inherently personal (duh), thus I don't think it's a totally wacky idea to include these sorts of beliefs/experiences in discussing your interest and reasons for going into medicine. That said, I do think that there need to be other things as well.

 

[IMGASMD]

I can see that you’re a reasonable and thoughtful guy.

Just like the others have pointed out.
“Dun hate da player, hate da game....” it’s all a game, until you get there. Even when you’re there, there is another few hidden levels...... do you really want to do this, reconsider to stay in religion?

Good luck.

 

[YungMufti]

do you really want to do this, reconsider to stay in religion?

I would explain my decision, but it would take around 5300 characters 😀 thanks again!

 

[Peter Pan.]

Centering your PS on religion or politics generally isn’t a good idea. You never know who is going to read it. If it’s someone who has a strong bias against what you’re saying your application has no chance.

 

[Goro]

You were really asked things like that in an interview? Intuitively, that seems to be on questionable legal ground. It contains a baseline assumption that an individual member of a group is a racist until proven otherwise.

Anything you mentioned in your app is fair game for interview questions

 

[Mooseforkicks]

The LGBT community and Jewish community are just virulent ignorant Islamaphobes in your eyes? Sb asked you how you interact with people from diverse communities. You responded by stating you know how to respond to virulent ignorant islamophobes.
Unbelievable.

To be fair, my reading of OPs response was that the person asking that question was an Islamaphobe, not that the LGBT and Jewish communities are.

However, OPs defensive knee-jerk reaction wasn’t helpful. Assuming without good evidence that someone else is being intolerant and responding with angry accusations is inappropriate and unproductive. And it can make you fall into the intolerant camp yourself.

If you choose to bring up a personal belief that has the possibility to affect how you interact with others or practice medicine, be prepared to talk about it. If you absolutely don’t want to have that discussion, or are going to ascribe racism or intolerance to it, don’t bring it up in the first place.