Using Sick Days For Vacation

[Sparda29]

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I was told by some of the fellow pharmacists over here to do this in case I get a feeling that the director most likely will not approve my vacation requests, as long as I get myself a doc's note. Any hospital pharmacists have any input about this?

Now, if I already submit a vacation request, get denied, and then use a sick day on that day, it's gonna look very suspicious. Apparently its also suspicious to get sick before a scheduled day off or before a weekend or after a weekend.

Apparently, we don't even get to roll over our sick days to the next year to use if we are really sick. It's either use them or get paid 1/2 for them.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I was told by some of the fellow pharmacists over here to do this in case I get a feeling that the director most likely will not approve my vacation requests, as long as I get myself a doc's note. Any hospital pharmacists have any input about this?

Now, if I already submit a vacation request, get denied, and then use a sick day on that day, it's gonna look very suspicious. Apparently its also suspicious to get sick before a scheduled day off or before a weekend or after a weekend.

Apparently, we don't even get to roll over our sick days to the next year to use if we are really sick. It's either use them or get paid 1/2 for them.

I wouldn't do it unless your DOP just doesn't give a damn. Like you mentioned, frequently "sick" first or last day of scheduled work day/holiday is an easily spotted sign of abuse.

Look, if you really need a day off for a very good reason, talk to your DOP and a decent one will work with you. Here is also where a good relationship with your DOP and fellow pharmacist will you big. Ask other pharmacist if you can trade with them. If you are so new that you don't have a rapport yet, ask your DOP if he can ask for you. He may also be able to bring in agency or PRN pharmacists, or even plug the gap personally if he feels that you do need the time off.

 

[nnguyenc]

yeah, it is weird that there is a use or lose sick day policy


it would actually be more cost effective to get sick because you will be paid the full $$$
as oppose to only getting half for being healthy

 

[xiphoid2010]

yeah, it is weird that there is a use or lose sick day policy


it would actually be more cost effective to get sick because you will be paid the full $$$
as oppose to only getting half for being healthy

Yeah, but isn't being healthy better off than being sick? 😀 I rather work than be down in bed with the flu.

Some hospitals like mine have sick days + PTO days, others give you more PTO but is used for everything. Which one's better probably depends on your age and health condition.

 

[Sparda29]

I wouldn't do it unless your DOP just doesn't give a damn. Like you mentioned, frequently "sick" first or last day of scheduled work day/holiday is an easily spotted sign of abuse.

Look, if you really need a day off for a very good reason, talk to your DOP and a decent one will work with you. Here is also where a good relationship with your DOP and fellow pharmacist will you big. Ask other pharmacist if you can trade with them. If you are so new that you don't have a rapport yet, ask your DOP if he can ask for you. He may also be able to bring in agency or PRN pharmacists, or even plug the gap personally if he feels that you do need the time off.

Well, the main thing with my vacations is, after looking at this stupid vacation calendar that all the senior pharmacists filled out, there is only like 1 full week free the entire year for me to be able to take a vacation. Otherwise, I'd conflict with another vacation and the director would have to pay the two people taking vacation + 2 per diems, and he doesn't wanna do that.

I wouldn't mind not taking the vacations as long as I can save them up or cash them out whenever I want to. But, there's no way I'm gonna use my vacations by taking 2 days here, 1 day here, 3 days here, etc. If I cannot take out the whole week or two so I can go on a proper travel trip, there is no point. I'm not a big fan of "staycations".

 

[xiphoid2010]

Well, the main thing with my vacations is, after looking at this stupid vacation calendar that all the senior pharmacists filled out, there is only like 1 full week free the entire year for me to be able to take a vacation. Otherwise, I'd conflict with another vacation and the director would have to pay the two people taking vacation + 2 per diems, and he doesn't wanna do that.

I wouldn't mind not taking the vacations as long as I can save them up or cash them out whenever I want to. But, there's no way I'm gonna use my vacations by taking 2 days here, 1 day here, 3 days here, etc. If I cannot take out the whole week or two so I can go on a proper travel trip, there is no point. I'm not a big fan of "staycations".

I can understand that. And personally, I think a FTE should be able to take at least a week off at a time once a yeah.

But you must also understand the seniority thing. Many places practice it, and it's reward for years of service. So don't complain, but do what those old timers did, earn yours.

Anyway, I still think your plan is to build your relationships, ask your fellow pharmacists, and be flexible about when you go on vacation. They guy your vacation is butting against may reschedule with you, and you can return the favor by covering for him at other times he would like off. Also, the DOP probably has some wiggle room with PRN pharmacists. I have more problem with PRN pharmacist availability on the days when I need them. So if you can take vacation when PRN pharmacists are available, that can help.

 

[Sparda29]

I can understand that. And personally, I think a FTE should be able to take at least a week off at a time once a yeah.

But you must also understand the seniority thing. Many places practice it, and it's reward for years of service. So don't complain, but do what those old timers did, earn yours.

Anyway, I still think your plan is to build your relationships, ask your fellow pharmacists, and be flexible about when you go on vacation. They guy your vacation is butting against may reschedule with you, and you can return the favor by covering for him at other times he would like off. Also, the DOP probably has some wiggle room with PRN pharmacists. I have more problem with PRN pharmacist availability on the days when I need them. So if you can take vacation when PRN pharmacists are available, that can help.

That's the thing, if I'm not the clinical pharmacist within 5 years or DOP within 10 years, I'm moving to the next hospital. I don't get how some of these people have stayed at staff pharmacist for the last 25 years.

 

[xiphoid2010]

That's the thing, if I'm not the clinical pharmacist within 5 years or DOP within 10 years, I'm moving to the next hospital. I don't get how some of these people have stayed at staff pharmacist for the last 25 years.

Companies don't want some newbie that come around to make a buck and skip ship shortly after. If your plan is do that, then you deserve to be at the bottle of the totem pole. Seniority is a reward system, and you have to earn it.🙄

 

[Sparda29]

Companies don't want some newbie that come around to make a buck and skip ship shortly after. If your plan is do that, then you deserve to be at the bottle of the totem pole. Seniority is a reward system, and you have to earn it.🙄

Seniority doesn't work though. The dinosaurs at my hospital are lazy ****s who know how to make it seem like they are doing work and keeping busy. They know they can't get fired unless they curse someone out or start a fistfight, etc.

I think the benefits/pay should be based on productivity.

 

[npage148]

Seniority only doesnt work for the person at the bottom

 

[Ackj]

there is only like 1 full week free the entire year for me to be able to take a vacation. Otherwise, I'd conflict with another vacation and the director would have to pay the two people taking vacation + 2 per diems, and he doesn't wanna do that.

That doesn't make sense. No matter how you schedule it, every vacation day will need a per diem to cover for it. If employee A is off week 1, and B is off week 2, week 1 you have per diem + B, and week 2 you have per diem + A. Both weeks you are paying 3 rph, so 6 rph for 2 weeks. Scenario 2, both A and B are on vacation week 1, and neither are for week 2. Week 1 you have per diem x 2, week 2 you have no per diems, and A and B are back from vacation. In this case, it's 4 rph in the first week, and 2 in the second week, which is still 6 over 2 weeks.

Maybe there would be an issue if he doesn't want to have 2 per diem at once d/t lack of experience with your system, lack of availability, or something like that. But not wanting to pay for 2 doesn't hold water.

 

[Sparda29]

That doesn't make sense. No matter how you schedule it, every vacation day will need a per diem to cover for it. If employee A is off week 1, and B is off week 2, week 1 you have per diem + B, and week 2 you have per diem + A. Both weeks you are paying 3 rph, so 6 rph for 2 weeks. Scenario 2, both A and B are on vacation week 1, and neither are for week 2. Week 1 you have per diem x 2, week 2 you have no per diems, and A and B are back from vacation. In this case, it's 4 rph in the first week, and 2 in the second week, which is still 6 over 2 weeks.

Maybe there would be an issue if he doesn't want to have 2 per diem at once d/t lack of experience with your system, lack of availability, or something like that. But not wanting to pay for 2 doesn't hold water.

I think he has separate monthly budgets as opposed to a yearly budget. It might be that he doesn't want a ****load of per diems working who aren't as fast as the full timers.

 

[PENVK]

Speaking of per diem. What can they do in a hospital where they've never worked at before and do not know the computer system. Do you put them on the night shift? I'm curious as how hospital pharmacy uses per diem rph.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sparda29]

Speaking of per diem. What can they do in a hospital where they've never worked at before and do not know the computer system. Do you put them on the night shift? I'm curious as how hospital pharmacy uses per diem rph.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

They do know the system in that they've been trained for it but they only usually come in once a week.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Speaking of per diem. What can they do in a hospital where they've never worked at before and do not know the computer system. Do you put them on the night shift? I'm curious as how hospital pharmacy uses per diem rph.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Of course we train them, and prefer to hire candidates already familiar with the computer system (eg, use the same system at their main/former job).

Also I try to have each work at least a shift per month. To keep them familiar with how things work here, also if you don't use them they won't work for you when you need them.

 

[pharmdpharmd]

Why don't you walk up to the director and tell him I need x amounts of days off. Let's work together and figure something out. Good DOP will work with you and figure out a compromise.

You are in a tough situation, since you are non-union and everybody else is union there is really nothing you can do. They can abuse the sick day system and the union will back them up, but if you abuse they will just replace you with a brand new grad who will just work as hard as you and won't complain about vacations.

 

[Guitarmacy]

Of course we train them, and prefer to hire candidates already familiar with the computer system (eg, use the same system at their main/former job).

Also I try to have each work at least a shift per month. To keep them familiar with how things work here, also if you don't use them they won't work for you when you need them.

Hypothetically, would you opt to hire a PRN RPh who hasn't used the system if they volunteered to work an unpaid shift or two to learn the computer system? I'm pretty sure that's never happened, but it sounds like a decent way to land a PRN job against more experienced candidates.. Maybe?

 

[Sparda29]

Why don't you walk up to the director and tell him I need x amounts of days off. Let's work together and figure something out. Good DOP will work with you and figure out a compromise.

You are in a tough situation, since you are non-union and everybody else is union there is really nothing you can do. They can abuse the sick day system and the union will back them up, but if you abuse they will just replace you with a brand new grad who will just work as hard as you and won't complain about vacations.

I'm union now, but I'm also lowest on the seniority list. Another thing is, you can't submit requests like 6-9 months in advance, you have to wait till you're 1-2 months before submitting it.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Hypothetically, would you opt to hire a PRN RPh who hasn't used the system if they volunteered to work an unpaid shift or two to learn the computer system? I'm pretty sure that's never happened, but it sounds like a decent way to land a PRN job against more experienced candidates.. Maybe?

Like you said, personally never had to choose between the 2. If your facility use a common one like Meditech, it's pretty easy to find candidates who are familiar with it. And software familiarity is just a part of the consideration. Hospital experience is a must in my book, since they working only once in a while, my concern would be that retail and new grads would never pick it up fully. Candidate's flexibility and availability to plug the need is obvious.

 

[Sparda29]

Like you said, personally never had to choose between the 2. If your facility use a common one like Meditech, it's pretty easy to find candidates who are familiar with it. And software familiarity is just a part of the consideration. Hospital experience is a must in my book, since they working only once in a while, my concern would be that retail and new grads would never pick it up fully. Candidate's flexibility and availability to plug the need is obvious.

One of the new PRNs at my hospital is a new grad, and she works almost as fast as I do, and definitely a lot faster than the dinosaurs around here. The one thing I'll give the dinosaurs is that when a doctor calls looking for a recommendation for something, they'll be able to almost immediately give a recommendation while I might have to fumble around looking stuff up.

 

[xiphoid2010]

One of the new PRNs at my hospital is a new grad, and she works almost as fast as I do, and definitely a lot faster than the dinosaurs around here. The one thing I'll give the dinosaurs is that when a doctor calls looking for a recommendation for something, they'll be able to almost immediately give a recommendation while I might have to fumble around looking stuff up.

How often PRN works varies alot by institution and needs. It can be couple times a week to once a month. Mine works couple shifts a month on average, so those without prior hospital experience will likely always be struggling. If yours average couple of days a week, then that's more like a part timer, and will be able to pickup and retain what they learned.

 

[owlegrad]

How much vacation time do you get anyway?

 

[ttopping]

You may have already answered this, I only skimmed through some of the discussion.

What's the reason for them to deny your vacation request? Is it due to staffing? My concern there is that if you take one of your sick days for vacation during the time that wasn't approved, are you just screwing over the other people working that day who now have to call to get a replacement? Not to mention as was stated early on it's pretty obvious and may negatively impact any performance reviews.

 

[Sparda29]

How much vacation time do you get anyway?

I get 4 weeks vacation.

You may have already answered this, I only skimmed through some of the discussion.

What's the reason for them to deny your vacation request? Is it due to staffing? My concern there is that if you take one of your sick days for vacation during the time that wasn't approved, are you just screwing over the other people working that day who now have to call to get a replacement? Not to mention as was stated early on it's pretty obvious and may negatively impact any performance reviews.

Reasoning is that he is already trying to find coverage for someone on medical leave. Now if someone takes a vacation, that's 2 pharmacists to find coverage for, and then if I want a vacation as well, that's 3 pharmacists to find coverage for.

If I use my sick day for vacation purposes, then yeah I'm probably screwing over the people working that day because they'd only have like 5-6 hours to find a replacement.

Another issue I have with this guy is that we can't officially make these requests many months in advance. When people tell him about tickets/hotels being cheaper the earlier you book, he replies with "not my problem".