USMLE Shelf Exams at Osteopathic Schools - Required

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OnMyWayThere

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Any other osteopathic schools require the Allopathic shelf exams during 3rd year? Is this necessarily a "good thing" to have? My school just implemented this. Seems like another stressor to add to 3rd year sleepless nights.

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OnMyWayThere;

From what I understand, there are only 2 or 3 osteopathic schools that currently use the NBME shelf exams. I personally think they are good to judge your understanding of the material over the past 1-2 months (and gauge how much you need to study that subject for step 2). Of course, I'm at one of the other schools that require the shelves. Just study and relax, 3rd year isn't that stressful anyway - a test every couple of months isn't any big deal.

Best of luck;

jd
 
We're required to take Shelf exams too (at KCUMB) although I don't really know all that much about them. So it's basically just to assess how you're doing compared to others taking the same test? I'm assuming it's supposed to get us in a testing mindset?
 
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snowhite said:
We're required to take Shelf exams too (at KCUMB) although I don't really know all that much about them. So it's basically just to assess how you're doing compared to others taking the same test? I'm assuming it's supposed to get us in a testing mindset?

We do take a shelf at the end of every rotation, but its not the NBME version. I've heard it is still very difficult. I would guess that the purpose is to make sure we are studying/learning so that we can pass boards in the summer. Who knows? Any other KCUMBers have any insight?
 
The shelf exams at KCUMB are not the NBME shelf exams. They are written by the faculty, supposedly using our recommended texts. They are taken online so you can use any resource you'd like. The questions could use a little updating and they really don't prepare you for Step 2 or help you gauge your understanding.

I think it would be extremely beneficial to take the NBME exams. I think students at KCUMB would study more each month along the way. I think they'd be great review. It would also help us compare to the nation. Just a thought.

Who knows.
 
The NBME shelf exams are proctored exams in each subject. In addition to a great gauge of your learning for step 2 exams, each test gives you a percentile grade based on your comparison to other test takers around the nation. Phenomenal gauge of your understanding of the subject (and also is counted as 25% of our grade).
 
I think it's great that more osteopathic schools are improving their standards by adding the shelf exam. When I went through Western, I only had 2 exams my entire 3rd year, during Ob/Gyn and Peds, but they were hospital specific made by the dept chair. And honestly, they helped with my Step 2/Comlex 2 studying. Believe me, these exams will not only help w/ that, but also hold you accountable for what you should be learning on rotations. At Western, it's very easy to float through certain rotations and never pick up a book, much less even show up, which is doing you a disservice, you are basically wasting your money.

Good luck!

FYI-Most, if not all, allopathic med schools have shelf exams.
 
OnMyWayThere said:
Any other osteopathic schools require the Allopathic shelf exams during 3rd year? Is this necessarily a "good thing" to have? My school just implemented this. Seems like another stressor to add to 3rd year sleepless nights.

I go to school with Delaughter who replied above. I think we both agree that these exams are highly useful and necessary. To not have these exams makes no sense in my opinion. They are pretty tough exams overall but after you have taken about 5-7 of them, you start to be able to predict how you will do on the USMLE II. I have no idea if they correlate with COMLEX II, but if you asked me, I honestly believe that the USMLE should replace the COMLEX anyway. If you can't pass it, then you should not be practicing. There are probably 10% of DO students nationwide who quite frankly would never pass the USMLE Step One. I think the percentage would improve at Step II and III though. Add a manipulative medicine exam to the USMLE that is 100 questions and call it a day. The COMLEX will never have the resources to be a great exam like the USMLE, and if we are trying so hard to be accepted as equal or better than MD's, then its time to get onboard this idea.

USMLE is the standard and we all know it. I personally am taking all the USMLE exams just so that I can feel comfortable knowing I have acheived the same level of expertise as anyone I might be in residency with.
 
corpsmanUP said:
I go to school with Delaughter who replied above. I think we both agree that these exams are highly useful and necessary. To not have these exams makes no sense in my opinion. They are pretty tough exams overall but after you have taken about 5-7 of them, you start to be able to predict how you will do on the USMLE II. I have no idea if they correlate with COMLEX II, but if you asked me, I honestly believe that the USMLE should replace the COMLEX anyway. If you can't pass it, then you should not be practicing. There are probably 10% of DO students nationwide who quite frankly would never pass the USMLE Step One. I think the percentage would improve at Step II and III though. Add a manipulative medicine exam to the USMLE that is 100 questions and call it a day. The COMLEX will never have the resources to be a great exam like the USMLE, and if we are trying so hard to be accepted as equal or better than MD's, then its time to get onboard this idea.

USMLE is the standard and we all know it. I personally am taking all the USMLE exams just so that I can feel comfortable knowing I have acheived the same level of expertise as anyone I might be in residency with.

I think that you're being a little overconscientious. The USMLE is not the end all and be all in licensing examinations. And, don't confuse achievement tests such as the MCAT, LSAT, SAT etc where higher scores = higher achievement with licensing exams that where the goal is to determine thresholds for minimal compentency. There is a ton of literature in the academic medical circles showing that higher scores on USMLE correlates little with residency achievement.

Still, because some program directors use USMLE cut-offs and may be too lazy or ignorant to develop COMLEX cut-offs, I advise DO's who are considering competitive ACGME-accredited residencies (there is really no such thing as an "allopathic" or "osteopathic" residency only different accreditation agencies such as the ACGME versus AOA) to take USMLE steps I and II for residency applications and then finish up their licensing sequence with COMLEX Level III. No one will ever care which pathway you're licensed under (USMLE versus COMLEX).

However, depending upon the state you practice, there may be real benefits to being licensed under the COMLEX as a D.O. (that is the reason it was designed in the first place). Chiefly, how you acquire and maintain your certification. In the osteopathic world, things are set up so you can essentially hit an AOA convention every 2 or 3 years, catch up with friends from medical school, and get all your CME done for that 5 year cycle. Being licensed under both pathways will likely require more time (ie $$) away from practice to keep your CME current, two separate accounting systems of CME credit, and double dues to the various professional societies that sponsor the CME. Being licensed only under the USMLE as a D.O. may create problems down the road in certain states. As the profession grows (and currently the AOA population pyramid looks like a third world country in terms of the number of D.O. students and residents in training), the COMLEX will clearly increase in stature and relevance. Similarly, things like the AOA-approved internship might also be important. Case in point: I recently interviewed for a fellowship positiion in PA. PA is one of "those states" that require an AOA-approved internship. I did an ACGME-accredited internship which would have left me out in the cold because the fellowship requires fellows to be independently licensed so they can bill for their services. To be indepedently licensed in PA require an AOA-approved internship. Luckily, I applied for approval for my internship from the AOA a couple of years ago under the "hardship rule" and got it approved....so I was okay! I never would have thought that I would be interested in a fellowship in PA 4 years ago, but I'm glad that I jumped through the obligatory hoops to make it happen.

Bottom line: Don't get suckered into thinking that "their way" is always the better way. Things like licensing examinations, accreditation standards, etc are beauracratic rigormoral that can change with the wind. Similarlly, don't cut yourself off from the AOA and the osteopathic world because you never know when it might come in handy. Yes, there are a lot of politics and shinangans in the osteopathic world, but you'll see that it is *EVERYWHERE* in medicine and worse in some specialties!

How you behave on the wards, how you treat your patients, your work ethic, and your own personal integrity will be the ultimate index of your "achievement" and "expertise" not which test you took.
 
drusso said:
I think that you're being a little overconscientious. The USMLE is not the end all and be all in licensing examinations. And, don't confuse achievement tests such as the MCAT, LSAT, SAT etc where higher scores = higher achievement with licensing exams that where the goal is to determine thresholds for minimal compentency. There is a ton of literature in the academic medical circles showing that higher scores on USMLE correlates little with residency achievement.

Still, because some program directors use USMLE cut-offs and may be too lazy or ignorant to develop COMLEX cut-offs, I advise DO's who are considering competitive ACGME-accredited residencies (there is really no such thing as an "allopathic" or "osteopathic" residency only different accreditation agencies such as the ACGME versus AOA) to take USMLE steps I and II for residency applications and then finish up their licensing sequence with COMLEX Level III. No one will ever care which pathway you're licensed under (USMLE versus COMLEX).

However, depending upon the state you practice, there may be real benefits to being licensed under the COMLEX as a D.O. (that is the reason it was designed in the first place). Chiefly, how you acquire and maintain your certification. In the osteopathic world, things are set up so you can essentially hit an AOA convention every 2 or 3 years, catch up with friends from medical school, and get all your CME done for that 5 year cycle. Being licensed under both pathways will likely require more time (ie $$) away from practice to keep your CME current, two separate accounting systems of CME credit, and double dues to the various professional societies that sponsor the CME. Being licensed only under the USMLE as a D.O. may create problems down the road in certain states. As the profession grows (and currently the AOA population pyramid looks like a third world country in terms of the number of D.O. students and residents in training), the COMLEX will clearly increase in stature and relevance. Similarly, things like the AOA-approved internship might also be important. Case in point: I recently interviewed for a fellowship positiion in PA. PA is one of "those states" that require an AOA-approved internship. I did an ACGME-accredited internship which would have left me out in the cold because the fellowship requires fellows to be independently licensed so they can bill for their services. To be indepedently licensed in PA require an AOA-approved internship. Luckily, I applied for approval for my internship from the AOA a couple of years ago under the "hardship rule" and got it approved....so I was okay! I never would have thought that I would be interested in a fellowship in PA 4 years ago, but I'm glad that I jumped through the obligatory hoops to make it happen.

Bottom line: Don't get suckered into thinking that "their way" is always the better way. Things like licensing examinations, accreditation standards, etc are beauracratic rigormoral that can change with the wind. Similarlly, don't cut yourself off from the AOA and the osteopathic world because you never know when it might come in handy. Yes, there are a lot of politics and shinangans in the osteopathic world, but you'll see that it is *EVERYWHERE* in medicine and worse in some specialties!

How you behave on the wards, how you treat your patients, your work ethic, and your own personal integrity will be the ultimate index of your "achievement" and "expertise" not which test you took.

Nice words Russo! But if you have taken both USMLE and COMLEX, can you please comment on the relevance to practice? I just think the USMLE is the standard by which medicine should be graded. Actually, in Texas, I plan to sit for all the USMLE's and COMLEX's and take both boards. Your words about the double CME were a bit overly simplistic. 90% of ACOFP and AAFP CME will overlap for an FP for instance, and having both boards is great for anyone wanting to be on faculty in a residency one day. Its all dependent on your specialty as you know.

And I must give COMLEX a bit of a plug as Step II on PC was a vast improvement over the paper Step I. But I just think that any physician in the country should take the same licensing exam as any other physician. It just makes sense. Pods take a different licensing exam as well, but how can they ever proove it is equal? I doubt they can, and I doubt the AOA will ever convince any of us that know better that COMLEX is as good at weeding out those "needing weeded" than the USMLE. Add a manip portion to USMLE and call it USMLE-COMLEX or USMLE DO. Would that really be all that difficult to do, or would it simply weed out more DO's? I think the latter, and quite honestly I don't see why the lower percentile should be able to make it in DO land and not in MD land. It is those lower percentilers that continuously have the allopathic world questioning our abilities.
 
corpsmanUP said:
Nice words Russo! But if you have taken both USMLE and COMLEX, can you please comment on the relevance to practice? I just think the USMLE is the standard by which medicine should be graded. Actually, in Texas, I plan to sit for all the USMLE's and COMLEX's and take both boards. Your words about the double CME were a bit overly simplistic. 90% of ACOFP and AAFP CME will overlap for an FP for instance, and having both boards is great for anyone wanting to be on faculty in a residency one day. Its all dependent on your specialty as you know.

And I must give COMLEX a bit of a plug as Step II on PC was a vast improvement over the paper Step I. But I just think that any physician in the country should take the same licensing exam as any other physician. It just makes sense. Pods take a different licensing exam as well, but how can they ever proove it is equal? I doubt they can, and I doubt the AOA will ever convince any of us that know better that COMLEX is as good at weeding out those "needing weeded" than the USMLE. Add a manip portion to USMLE and call it USMLE-COMLEX or USMLE DO. Would that really be all that difficult to do, or would it simply weed out more DO's? I think the latter, and quite honestly I don't see why the lower percentile should be able to make it in DO land and not in MD land. It is those lower percentilers that continuously have the allopathic world questioning our abilities.

The USMLE and COMLEX are different tests. I thought that the COMLEX was more clinical and and had more "first order" answers. The USMLE is more of a second-order approach to reasoning. I used to be a proponent of the "combine the tests and add a manipulation section" argument, but have changed my mind. I think that keeping the tests separate is better because being a D.O. is more than MD + OMT. As you progress in your training you'll have to make up your mind for yourself.

Also, as I alluded above, there may be benefits down the line to keeping the pathways parallel but separate especially as the profession goes through its "growth spurt." Remember, it was just in 2001 that the COMLEX achieved primary licensure status for DO's in all 50 states. This is still a relatively young profession.

I maintain that for residency application purposes take both exams' steps I and II. It just CYA. I don't know why some DO's do worse on the USMLE compared to the COMLEX (especially on the earlier levels). I suspect that it might be because DO schools don't teach to the USMLE (some may more than others) but instead teach toward the COMLEX. I also think that DO ad coms really do "look past the numbers" more so than MD schools and take chances on older applicants with more life experience, yada, yada.

And, I think that in general, these applicants tend to be intelligent people but lack test taking skills. So, maybe they find the "first order" content of the COMLEX easier than the "second order" content of the USMLE. I took both and thought that they were more similar than different.

My point for DO students is don't frett too much about it. If you're doing primary care or a relatively uncompetitive specialty just take the COMLEX. If you're after competitive specialties or programs in highly competitive geographic locations (SF, Boston, Seattle, NYC, etc) take both.
 
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