Utah MSTP vs Miami MD-PhD vs ColoradoMSTP

[PrePhysicianMusician]

Sorry to make one of these, and at the risk of being neurotic, but I'm just struggling to even figure out how to start thinking through these. I haven't been accepted to all of these programs, but I will most likely end at one of these three based on my IIs so far.
I have a friend that's moving with me wherever I go as well to attend grad school next year, so... the earlier I start thinking about housing etc the easier it will get. More so, coming into this cycle I realistically wasn't assuming I was going to get any MD-PhD IIs, let alone As... and then having to sort through multiple As. As a first gen kid it's a dream come true but also terrifying and no one I know irl is in this position. I'm also coming to this knowing that I don't even know what questions to begin asking for Second Look when I need to start making decisions. This whole thing is just some nebulous concept I can't seem to wrap my brain around.
So here are my list of pros and cons.

Utah MSTP:
PRo:
Pre-PhD contains clinical experience/longitudinal clerkship
Just got their MSTP affiliation
Have lots of cool PI's to work with
Overall very collaborative and everyone I met was really really nice and down to earth
Lots of fun skiing and hiking in the area
My friend has a full ride scholarship to the grad program here

Cons
VERY far away from family
IDK what their match rates are to more competitive residencies? (Derm, Anesthesia, ENT)
Small immigrant community
Not very diverse (which isn't a huge deal for me, but it still makes my inner immigrant kid feel out of place)
Would be in the first class of their new curriculum so everything might not be ironed out yet


MIAMI MD-PhD
Pros
Very diverse medical school Community
Huge immigrant community
Pride themselves on being able to get people into Ivy league residencies
Very cool research
Have had 3 years with their new curriculum so things should be more ironed out and it looks like due to new that it'll be a faster time to get you MDPhD
Closer to home (still 10ish hours driving, but closer than Utah)
Nice warm weather with lots of cool things to do year round (key west, night life, beaches etc)

Cons:
Seems very competitive
Vibe between students is nice but seems very very stressful (all medical students are but these seemed more than other places I interviewed at)
Not true P/F (you are ranked)
Will be harder to live off their stipend because the cost of living and rent is so darn expensive (easier to buy a house in the future tho!)
Higher crime ratings in the city?
More expensive for my friend, because she probably won't be getting a full ride scholarship at this place( financial aid package for her here hasn't come out yet)
Have heard some rumors about the vibe of the MD-PhD program administration isn't very nice, but again, idk, may be just other people's biased opinions


Colorado:
Pros
Cool place to live (seem to be the best of both worlds of diverse living, but lots of outdoor activities)
Diverse medical school community
Large immigrant community
Highest ranked MSTP Program out of the three
Seem to be a really lowkey hippie vibe
Very cool Research
Would be cheaper for my friend's grad program as well

Cons:
Students seem unsatisfied with new curriculum (MD-PhD in particular)
With the new shift, seem to be taking much longer to degree completion (9-10 years)
Administration seems slightly disorganized?
IDK their match rates, but they seem to be highly ranked?
Bitter cold, lol



In short, I don't even know what else to ask these programs for their second look that would help me make a decision. I love all of these programs, and am getting really confused about PD rankings, vs residency match lists, etc. All very confusing and overwhelming. I went into this process thinking the one program that accepts me will be my "best fit", and never imagined having so many IIs.

Any thoughts on rankings of these schools vs match lists? Or other questions to ask for the Second look that would make the decision easier?
According to PD rankings it goes Colorado--> Utah--> Miami. Yet Miami is known to have amazing residency placements.

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[thegourd]

First off, congrats on having 3 As already!!! And I totally get how choosing schools can be so overwhelming since it's a HUGE decision, and like you I also don't come from a family of healthcare/scientist people. My mentors and people along the interview trail have given me some amazing advice though, and here are some considerations/thoughts based on what I've learned:

• First of all, try to avoid having super strong opinions for or against any schools for now. I say this because it's very difficult to get an assessment of what the school/program is like without visiting in person (and in reality, you won't know what it's truly like until you're a student yourself). Utah has a significant upper hand here since they are one of few schools that did in-person interviews this cycle, and they did an AMAZING job selling the school (at least for me). I'm not sure if Miami and Colorado were remote, but if they were, remember that you can't really compare an in-person visit with a Zoom visit. I think it's important to have biases/opinions about schools, but try not to have anything set in stone. That being said:
  • 8 years is a long ass time. You say that the lack of diversity (and I assume immigrant community as well) in Utah is not a big deal, but also say that "it still makes [your] inner immigrant kid feel out of place." Think/reflect deeply on whether this out-of-placeness will cause any problems/discomfort/etc., even if it's very minor (because things can add up over 8+ years!) I too was an immigrant kid, but the lack of diversity doesn't bother me at all since my primary schooling was done in a place that was slightly lacking in terms of diversity. I know some people, though, who really value having that specific community. In terms of being away from family, they may be an important part of your current support system but figure out whether you want to be near them or need to be near them. I wouldn't want you to be trapped in a long stressful journey far away from family if you need them.
  • Some considerations for Miami:
    • Don't let the high cost of living turn you off yet. I say this because I've interviewed at schools in places that have ridiculous COL (e.g., SF/Palo Alto/LA/NYC). In most cases, I was very impressed by the highly subsidized (and very nice) university/program-affiliated housing. Find out if Miami has subsidized housing/what students think of it, as well as how students get by. It's very possible that the high COL can become a non-issue.
    • To me, ranking students is a huge turnoff – I think this can go hand-in-hand with the stressful/competitive nature of the program you observed. THAT BEING SAID, you mentioned that they match well and the fact that you'd be applying to residencies with both an MD and PhD would be a huge boost (not that it's an easy in, but you should fare well).
    • I would definitely assess the vibes of the students and program/admin more during second look, or if you have the opportunity to connect with current student(s)
  • And for Colorado:
    • Don't choose schools based on ranking alone. Telling you to ignore rankings would be naive because prestige definitely has an impact, but if it's a major criterion then your priorities may be misplaced.
    • Dissatisfaction with the new curriculum is obviously bad, but this would be mitigated if the program actively takes student feedback and makes changes based on it. Disorganized admin can also be an annoyance, but may not be the end of the world. For these items, you may need to explore them more through second look/connecting with current student(s).

In terms of ranking schools, I would heavily prioritize the research fit and the vibes. 8+ years is a long time, and this will be a transformative period – this is when students may get married, start a family, etc. You want to be someplace that you really love and can thrive both professionally and personally. At the end of the day, you're going to be an MD-PhD student no matter where you go, and so your medical and clinical research training will be top-notch (especially if you have that MSTP stamp). I won't say that all schools are equal (e.g., if your end goal is to work in biotech Utah might be better), but in terms of residency matching and beyond (on the more med side of things), you'll fare well with your resume/credentials.

Finally, on the topic of your friend, I hate to say this, but you have to be selfish. 8+ years is a really long time, and only you know what you want and what is best for you. Input/advice/etc. from others is great, but at the end of the day, only you are qualified to make the final decision. I would first rank the schools based on how you feel about them before working on coordinating things with your friend. If this "friend" is actually a partner or something though I'd def work with her on figuring out where you'll be moving but think deeply as well about what you want. At the end of the day, you are going to be the one spending 8+ years on 2 degrees during a transformative phase of your life.

Hopefully this is at least a bit helpful, but take this with a grain of salt because like you I am also a current applicant (but I haven't gotten any post-interview decisions yet) so there's a lot I don't know

EDIT: typo (strikethrough)

 

[ShinySephiroth]

FYI Utah is getting crazy expensive. My home went from $330k valuation to $500k+ as of this post. It's dropped a lot from April but doesn't look to be going back to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon.

And the U of U has a lot of diversity - you'll be in SLC where there is a lot more diversity than the majority of the state (SLC, Ogden, Wesr Valley, and Woods Cross are more diverse than most other places). I serve on LULAC there and have been part of several other non-profits helping underserved communities - I personally don't think you'll have a hard time getting involved in things/meeting people, especially on campus.

Hope you end up at the place that'll be the best fit for you!

 

[bigfanofscience]

BTW University of Miami is an MSTP