UVA or UW

[Non-Medical Father]

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My daughter is very focused on being a research pathologist. That said, she is trying to decide on the best undergrad program. She has been accepted to University of Virginia (where we live) and University of Washington.

UVA is about $30K a year for us, and has a biology program, not microbiology

UW is about $55K a year for us, and has a microbiology program.

My daughter wants to eventually get MD/PhD.

Any advice? Should be pay the extra $100K for UW?

 

[DNC127]

Noooooooooo.

Cheapest undergrad is the best undergrad.

My undergrad was an open enrollment, 2.5k per semester, no-name school. Most the pre-meds applying to med school got accepted. Including top medical schools like Duke and Pitt, and more specific to your daughters case University of Virginia. This was just in my class. Undergrad "prestige" is overrated unless its Harvard, MIT, Stanford ect in my opinion. Even then I don't think any undergrad is worth 50k per year.

 

[Oso]

First of all, OP, I love your username.

Second of all, does UVA at least offer some microbiology classes and have microbiology research labs? If yes, then I think the answer is definitely UVA. Not having an official microbio major doesn't really matter. Both are wonderful schools and should set her up well for a medical and/or research career.

 

[curbsideconsult]

My daughter is very focused on being a research pathologist. That said, she is trying to decide on the best undergrad program. She has been accepted to University of Virginia (where we live) and University of Washington.

UVA is about $30K a year for us, and has a biology program, not microbiology

UW is about $55K a year for us, and has a microbiology program.

My daughter wants to eventually get MD/PhD.

Any advice? Should be pay the extra $100K for UW?

Agreed with what everyone has said.

As an aside, are you asking on behalf of your daughter? Or are you trying to decide what is reasonable for you to pay for?

 

[Non-Medical Father]

I am asking for my daughter. I am covering in state costs, she covers the rest. She really wants to go to UW, and I am helping her evaluate whether it’s worth it.

 

[curbsideconsult]

I am asking for my daughter. I am covering in state costs, she covers the rest. She really wants to go to UW, and I am helping her evaluate whether it’s worth it.

Maybe it would be easier if she posted herself?

More on UVA vs. UW: the extra $100k+++ she'll have to pay is definitely not worth it. Seattle is a ridiculously pricey place to live, even in the UDistrict. And if it's not pricey, then you're living with rats and you have a slumlord and/or you're living with 4 people in a one-bedroom. Obviously, she could dorm, but that's expensive too. She can always try for MD/PhD at UW later on if she's still hellbent on going to Seattle. That way it'll be paid for.

 

[BombsAway]

I vote UW. Life is short, live in the PNW. Also, establishing residency in WA would give her a shot at UW for medical school.

 

[XOXO123]

Just wanted to pop in as a UVA student to say that I really couldn't recommend this school more. I have had an amazing four years and will miss it dearly when I graduate this spring. I don't think the lack of a specific microbio major will hurt your daughter in any way, and there are definitely microbio classes and abundant opportunities for her to get involved in research here. Charlottesville is certainly a different place than Seattle, and if that's what is pulling her to UW then I can understand. That being said, I think that getting to live in a college town like Cville is an amazing experience, and getting to do it at one of the best schools in the country for in-state tuition prices is unbeatable.

 

[sss1219]

Also, establishing residency in WA would give her a shot at UW for medical school.

This is important. Having residency in WA will be a huge boost when the time comes for applying to medical school. The med schools in the PNW region are inclusive because there aren't many of them, so the acceptance rates for PNW residents is pretty high for schools in that region compared to schools nation-wide, and one can only imagine how incredibly competitive the process will have become 4 years from now.

Of course your daughter will have to 1) stay pre-med over 4 years and 2) do well in school regardless of where she ends up for this to matter, but it is still something to consider along with finances. I'm not sure how the law is set up for establishing residency for WA so you will want to look this up to see whether educational years even count towards the requirement.

 

[Cath Up]

I am sure either school will have microbiology-related courses and doubt MD/PhD programs care as much as you think they do about specific undergrad major.

ECs that are relevant to academic interests would definitely be important. UW's microbiology program will give a student excellent access to microbiology research and scientific ECs. But the micro courses themselves are brutally curved and every single course I took in UW's microbio program was difficult compared to my other classes. In my opinion it is absolutely not worth the risk to take those classes and have one's GPA suffer- MD/PhD programs probably care more about stats than a small subset of classes that one takes as an undergrad.

For this reason, I would think UVA is a much better option for your daughter, all other considerations aside.

While it is admirable for you to remain involved in your daughter's plans, I would encourage her to be asking these questions as well. Information seeking about programs and opportunities is a really important part of success as a college student and med school applicant.

 

[DBC03]

I took on a ton of debt to go to a really amazing school (Princeton), and while I would say I don't regret it, it also prevented me from going to grad school for a VERY long time (it took me over 10 years just to pay off the debt). If she wants to go directly to medical school, I'd go with UVA. It has an excellent reputation and will not hold her back. Now that I'm choosing medical schools, I'm definitely considering the difference in cost. She is welcome to talk with me about the decision if she's interested.

 

[Cath Up]

This is important. Having residency in WA will be a huge boost when the time comes for applying to medical school. The med schools in the PNW region are inclusive because there aren't many of them, so the acceptance rates for PNW residents is pretty high for schools in that region compared to schools nation-wide, and one can only imagine how incredibly competitive the process will have become 4 years from now.

Of course your daughter will have to 1) stay pre-med over 4 years and 2) do well in school regardless of where she ends up for this to matter, but it is still something to consider along with finances. I'm not sure how the law is set up for establishing residency for WA so you will want to look this up to see whether educational years even count towards the requirement.

UW's MD/PhD program does not care about in-state residency:FAQ | University of Washington MSTP | Medical Scientist Training Program
If this person's daughter wanted to apply to the MD/PhD program at UW, their daughter would not be disadvantaged by going to UVA.

UW's MD program cares very much about WWAMI residency, however. Not sure about their PhD programs.

 

[theonlytycrane]

UWSOM has very strange admissions (they value random things over caliber of student) and terrible undergraduate pre-med courses. Save $ and go to UVA. Also, going to UW for undergrad won't matter if she applies MD/PhD.

 

[BombsAway]

UWSOM has very strange admissions (they value random things over caliber of student)

I think the word you're looking for is "holistic"

 

[Non-Medical Father]

Just wanted to pop in as a UVA student to say that I really couldn't recommend this school more. I have had an amazing four years and will miss it dearly when I graduate this spring. I don't think the lack of a specific microbio major will hurt your daughter in any way, and there are definitely microbio classes and abundant opportunities for her to get involved in research here. Charlottesville is certainly a different place than Seattle, and if that's what is pulling her to UW then I can understand. That being said, I think that getting to live in a college town like Cville is an amazing experience, and getting to do it at one of the best schools in the country for in-state tuition prices is unbeatable.

Thank you for your reply (as well as everyone else who replied). Almost everyone recommended stay in state, save the cash. Taking that mindset, my daughter was also accepted to Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) with money. VCU will cost $100k in lieu of UVA at $140. What are your thoughts on attending VCU and putting the $40k toward md/phd?

Will VCU provide same caliber biology program as UVA, will it prepare her as well for MCAT, and will it be looked upon with more, less, or even favor from top notch medical schools?

 

[theonlytycrane]

@Non-Medical Father MD/PhD is tough to get into, but it's fully funded (tuition free) so $ wouldn't be an issue at that point.

 

[Cath Up]

While taking MCAT-relevant courses helps one prepare for the MCAT, most success on the MCAT comes down to how one studies specifically for the test. I don’t think the differences between these schools will impact MCAT preparedness.

 

[precisiongraphic]

UW grad here.

More on UVA vs. UW: the extra $100k+++ she'll have to pay is definitely not worth it. Seattle is a ridiculously pricey place to live, even in the UDistrict. And if it's not pricey, then you're living with rats and you have a slumlord and/or you're living with 4 people in a one-bedroom. Obviously, she could dorm, but that's expensive too. She can always try for MD/PhD at UW later on if she's still hellbent on going to Seattle. That way it'll be paid for.

Way too expensive, poor housing options.

This is important. Having residency in WA will be a huge boost when the time comes for applying to medical school. The med schools in the PNW region are inclusive because there aren't many of them, so the acceptance rates for PNW residents is pretty high for schools in that region compared to schools nation-wide, and one can only imagine how incredibly competitive the process will have become 4 years from now.

Of course your daughter will have to 1) stay pre-med over 4 years and 2) do well in school regardless of where she ends up for this to matter, but it is still something to consider along with finances. I'm not sure how the law is set up for establishing residency for WA so you will want to look this up to see whether educational years even count towards the requirement.

Acceptance rates for Washington State residents applying instate are among the worst in the nation - worse than that for California residents. WWAMI acceptance rates for Idaho and Montana are better but the UW is very hard to get into for residents. None of this outweighs going to UVA.

Educational years don't count toward residency in WA. She'd have to get a job there after undergrad to be considered instate for IS acceptance and tuition.

Summary: she should go to UVA, graduate with less debt and save the debt acquisition for the best med school that she can get into. And maybe a MD/PhD at UW if she's wants to at that time.

 

[DBC03]

Thank you for your reply (as well as everyone else who replied). Almost everyone recommended stay in state, save the cash. Taking that mindset, my daughter was also accepted to Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) with money. VCU will cost $100k in lieu of UVA at $140. What are your thoughts on attending VCU and putting the $40k toward md/phd?

Will VCU provide same caliber biology program as UVA, will it prepare her as well for MCAT, and will it be looked upon with more, less, or even favor from top notch medical schools?

First, I'm just a lowly applicant who will be matriculating to medical school. So I cannot comment on how undergrad will help in the application process (but I'll give my thoughts). However, I'm in my mid-30s and can comment on aspects of undergraduate education that are important outside of just getting in to graduate schools.

I went to Princeton and took on what I believed was a ton of debt to do so - over $70k. I had a full ride to any of my state schools. While I thought it was a bear to pay down, there are a few advantages that have made it a worthwhile decision for me. First, we have an amazing alumni network and I took it for granted for too many years. If I need to network with someone or have a question in any field at all, alumni from all over the world jump in and help. We also have continued support from the undergraduate campus - it never ends. I can use the career counseling center and the health professions advising team. There are many ways to remain involved. I should also note that I learned so much more than academics during my time on campus and I grew as a person. The support for the undergraduates was amazing. It was the experience and exploration I had during college that made all of the debt completely worthwhile.

I'm not as familiar with VCU, but I do have friends, colleagues, and one mentor who went to UVA and rave about it - for many reasons that were similar to what I found at Princeton. For these reasons, and because of the unique undergraduate education and experience that UVA provides, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that UVA provides a similar experience to a small private university - your daughter will learn much and grow in ways that she could possibly not imagine right now. If she was only considering the most efficient and cost effective way of obtaining MD/PhD, any place would do. But based on what I have heard about UVA, I think it will provide her with many non-tangible benefits that will help her become a better person and she will make friends and connections that will last forever. If it was me, I would go with UVA and take on the additional cost. And that's coming from someone who really hates debt.

 

[XOXO123]

I would completely echo what DBC03 said above. Students and alumni alike rave about UVA. The name comes with some prestige (which I do think bears at least a little weight in this game regardless of what others say), but it's not undeserved because this is an incredible institution that will promote tremendous growth and help your daughter make connections. There's almost nothing you can't do here. I don't think giving that up is worth 40k. Anecdotally, a lot of other premed students that I know here have done extremely well on the MCAT. I'm sure this is in part because no one goes around chatting about it when they didn't do so hot, but I do think that the rigorous science classes here prepare you well.

I honestly can't speak to VCU. I'm from out of state and don't know anyone who goes/went there nor have I really heard much about it from anyone.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Go to the cheapest school that you will be successful at, period. Absolutely no reason to go 100k in debt for a biology degree. What happens if she goes to school and decides medicine isn't for her, then you're looking at 100k+ debt without a physician salary. I don't know much about Virginia's undergrad state schools, but go to the cheapest one possible.

 

[Seattle111]

I live in Seattle and both my kids will not be going to UW for their biology majors (one is in a pre-dental track currently a sophomore at an out of state private university and the other is an incoming freshman looking at out of state private universities - we aren’t rich - they got incredible merit scholarships). They were admitted as Pre-Science majors in UW and would need to apply to the biology major after freshman year (no guarantees for admittance). There is no direct admit to biology (as well as MANY other programs). My older daughter has a friend trying to get into the Public Health major at UW (didn’t get in after applying at the end of freshman year). She tells my daughter the science classes are incredibly competitive and non-collaborative because everyone is competing to get into their perspective majors (not everyone gets in). I would definitely call undergrad admissions and ask for the numbers regarding those applying into your desired major and how many get in and what their stats are (or other criteria). If you don’t get into your desired major by end of sophomore year, you either transfer out of UW or pick another major that is non-competitive. I hear many pre-engineering students transfer after sophomore year when they can’t get into their engineering majors but still want to become an engineer.

 

[theonlytycrane]

I live in Seattle and both my kids will not be going to UW for their biology majors (one is in a pre-dental track currently a sophomore at an out of state private university and the other is an incoming freshman looking at out of state private universities - we aren’t rich - they got incredible merit scholarships). They were admitted as Pre-Science majors in UW and would need to apply to the biology major after freshman year (no guarantees for admittance). There is no direct admit to biology (as well as MANY other programs). My older daughter has a friend trying to get into the Public Health major at UW (didn’t get in after applying at the end of freshman year). She tells my daughter the science classes are incredibly competitive and non-collaborative because everyone is competing to get into their perspective majors (not everyone gets in). I would definitely call undergrad admissions and ask for the numbers regarding those applying into your desired major and how many get in and what their stats are (or other criteria). If you don’t get into your desired major by end of sophomore year, you either transfer out of UW or pick another major that is non-competitive. I hear many pre-engineering students transfer after sophomore year when they can’t get into their engineering majors but still want to become an engineer.

Great insight to look out for your kids- all true statements^

 

[AllBleedingStops]

Go in state.

Every 4 year undergraduate institution has microbiology courses and being microbio major vs bio major won't have a significant difference in outcome.