va hospital advice?

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TheBlaah

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I'm currently an upcoming p3 student and I've been interested in working as a clinical pharmacist at a VA hospital. This coming fall, we're going to have to choose our rotations for 4th year, and unfortunately I've been notified by the rotation coordinator that normally there are only 5-7 slots for the Atlanta VA hospital out of a class of ~145 students. And slots are chosen by how you rank the rotation and randomized as well.

That being said, I do not believe my chances of being randomized into that rotation are very high even if I do rank it first. I was wondering if I could get some advice on how I can get some experience at a Veterans Affairs hospital. I'm getting ready to call their volunteer office to see if there's spots, but I'm unsure if they offer volunteer spots for pharmacy interns (even for outpatient/inpatient).
Another option I have is to convince a pharmacist to act as a site/preceptor, but I'm not really familiar with the process and it being a government program, how easy it could be done.

If all else fails, would a rotation at another hospital give me a similar experience? The only differences I'm aware of are that VA hospitals would probably be dealing with a more constant patient population and that some clinical pharmacists have limited prescribing rights. And would it seem decent when residency matching comes around (I have no experience working at a hospital as it is).

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Call the director of pharmacy at the VA hospital. Tell them what you posted on here about you wanting experience...then just hope the director is nice and will let you shadow the pharmacists.
 
I'm currently an upcoming p3 student and I've been interested in working as a clinical pharmacist at a VA hospital. This coming fall, we're going to have to choose our rotations for 4th year, and unfortunately I've been notified by the rotation coordinator that normally there are only 5-7 slots for the Atlanta VA hospital out of a class of ~145 students. And slots are chosen by how you rank the rotation and randomized as well.

That being said, I do not believe my chances of being randomized into that rotation are very high even if I do rank it first. I was wondering if I could get some advice on how I can get some experience at a Veterans Affairs hospital. I'm getting ready to call their volunteer office to see if there's spots, but I'm unsure if they offer volunteer spots for pharmacy interns (even for outpatient/inpatient).
Another option I have is to convince a pharmacist to act as a site/preceptor, but I'm not really familiar with the process and it being a government program, how easy it could be done.

If all else fails, would a rotation at another hospital give me a similar experience? The only differences I'm aware of are that VA hospitals would probably be dealing with a more constant patient population and that some clinical pharmacists have limited prescribing rights. And would it seem decent when residency matching comes around (I have no experience working at a hospital as it is).

I guess it depends what your goal is - do you want a VA residency? I'm a VALOR student (pre-residency year-long internship offered to rising 3rd years) at a VA, so I've been working there a year now and am pretty familiar with the processes/ins and outs.

The volunteer offices at VAs are the ones you want to call - they do use a lot of pharmacy volunteers and you can definitely get experience (especially inpatient pharmacy) there. Don't bother calling the DoP (often called "Pharmacy Chief" at VAs) - you need to get cleared from a background check and fingerprints to do anything on premises, so you can't just go shadow someone randomly. (And you need to be a US citizen).

In my experience, pharmacists at my VA were kind of flexible in terms of being willing to precept - the VA didn't really stand in their way there. My advice would be to check around and see if maybe some of them precept for OTHER schools (that's pretty common at my hospital), and then to contact them and see if they'd be willing to precept you as well. Or, look at different VAs in other cities/states (espec if you can stay with family).

Sorry to say it, but a rotation at another hospital won't give you the same experience. Some VAs even give you points on your residency application for having done a VA rotation (... and/or points for being a VALOR student ... or both :naughty::naughty::naughty:) The VA is its own system and is pretty much unto its own laws and policies, and they know it. They love to hire from within, and while a rotation there won't guarantee you an interview, it can score points and give you a leg up on other candidates - which considering how many applications some of these VAs get, is something you want!
 
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I guess it depends what your goal is - do you want a VA residency? I'm a VALOR student (pre-residency year-long internship offered to rising 3rd years) at a VA, so I've been working there a year now and am pretty familiar with the processes/ins and outs.

The volunteer offices at VAs are the ones you want to call - they do use a lot of pharmacy volunteers and you can definitely get experience (especially inpatient pharmacy) there. Don't bother calling the DoP (often called "Pharmacy Chief" at VAs) - you need to get cleared from a background check and fingerprints to do anything on premises, so you can't just go shadow someone randomly. (And you need to be a US citizen).

In my experience, pharmacists at my VA were kind of flexible in terms of being willing to precept - the VA didn't really stand in their way there. My advice would be to check around and see if maybe some of them precept for OTHER schools (that's pretty common at my hospital), and then to contact them and see if they'd be willing to precept you as well. Or, look at different VAs in other cities/states (espec if you can stay with family).

Sorry to say it, but a rotation at another hospital won't give you the same experience. Some VAs even give you points on your residency application for having done a VA rotation (... and/or points for being a VALOR student ... or both :naughty::naughty::naughty:) The VA is its own system and is pretty much unto its own laws and policies, and they know it. They love to hire from within, and while a rotation there won't guarantee you an interview, it can score points and give you a leg up on other candidates - which considering how many applications some of these VAs get, is something you want!

I did end up giving them a call at the volunteer service, and the guy basically said orientations would be in the fall (schedules would get worked out in july and to call back then), and if there were openings in the pharmacy for volunteering they'd let me know.

As for the VALOR program, I actually found out about that earlier today. Unfortunately I don't believe I'll be eligible as the applications ended this March. At my school, rotations can begin a week after p3 year ends, so if I apply for next year, I may not have the summer to participate in it (Although it does require the dean to sign off/nominate you, so maybe they would accomodate me somehow? It's uncertain anyway).

I am a little curious about the admissions process, how competitive it is, and what kind of stats they're looking for. Quite frankly, I have little to no contact with my dean of pharmacy, so I'm unsure if I'd even be able to convince him to nominate me.
 
As for the VALOR program, I actually found out about that earlier today. Unfortunately I don't believe I'll be eligible as the applications ended this March. At my school, rotations can begin a week after p3 year ends, so if I apply for next year, I may not have the summer to participate in it (Although it does require the dean to sign off/nominate you, so maybe they would accomodate me somehow? It's uncertain anyway).

I am a little curious about the admissions process, how competitive it is, and what kind of stats they're looking for. Quite frankly, I have little to no contact with my dean of pharmacy, so I'm unsure if I'd even be able to convince him to nominate me.

I believe most VAs only take P2 students for VALOR, I'm sorry =( It's a longitudinal clinical experience to get you ready for 4th year rotations and to provide pre-residency experience at all levels of clinical pharmacy at the VA (you can rotate eeeeeeverywhere there). I can't speak for the stats at all VAs, but at mine it's super competitive - out of the entire nominee pool, nearly all selected for interviews are Rho Chi and/or PLS (and if you're not and you get an interview, then you've probably got a connection). I had a 3.9 when I applied. Another VALOR student I know had a 4.0 at the time of application. Again, maybe my hospital is super competitive, but VALOR opens a lot of doors for people so it usually gets a lot of applications.
 
just to add a data point:
1 class mate who interned at VA --> residency at VA
2 interns at VA during internshi --> ranked #1 and #4(5?) during ranking, probably both matched (4 PGY-1 spots).

VA is very internal. The best way in is basically if you had internship/APPE/contacts within. Each VA (or VISN) has its separate affiliation agreements. It's difficult for those out-side of the system exposure to get in. It is indeed a VERY PROGRESSIVE system, an idealized pharmacy scope of practice that's hard to achieve when bound by state laws.
 
just to add a data point:
1 class mate who interned at VA --> residency at VA
2 interns at VA during internshi --> ranked #1 and #4(5?) during ranking, probably both matched (4 PGY-1 spots).

VA is very internal. The best way in is basically if you had internship/APPE/contacts within. Each VA (or VISN) has its separate affiliation agreements. It's difficult for those out-side of the system exposure to get in. It is indeed a VERY PROGRESSIVE system, an idealized pharmacy scope of practice that's hard to achieve when bound by state laws.

I'll add another data point:
We have 4 residents at our VA. 3 of us never did a VA rotation during school (although I think 2 did other federal rotations, but I did not), so it can still be done without having VA rotations. Now, finding a permanent VA job after a VA PGY1 residency, that's another story.
 
I'll add another data point:
We have 4 residents at our VA. 3 of us never did a VA rotation during school (although I think 2 did other federal rotations, but I did not), so it can still be done without having VA rotations. Now, finding a permanent VA job after a VA PGY1 residency, that's another story.

Good luck. We had 4 residents, 3 from affiliated COP, except me. But in the end I was the only one who had a job offer. But it was for amb care which I didn't go for since it is boring to me. The VA in 2011 was trying to transition to PACT model. It looks good on paper in the short-intermediate term, but at the expense of non-primary care. I wonder how it is now.
 
I was going to start a new thread, but found this one and thought it best to just piggyback, but please start a new one if that is best. I'm wondering if anyone who frequents the forum has completed the VA VALOR program, and if so, I'd love to hear details about your experience. I start in a couple of weeks and would love to hear more about your experience so I can potentially make even more of mine. Thanks!
 
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