VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

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cara susanna said:
I hope this doesn't sound overly dramatic, but it's like a moral injury for me to respond. But I don't want to lose my job, or deal with a fight to get it back. I'm struggling with what to do.
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I just responded with 5 bullet points describing assessment, diagnostic, treatment planning, suicide screening/ safety planning, intervention duties, etc. Took 2 minutes off the top of my head. I'd just be matter-of-fact about it. I wouldn't recommend sarcasm or not responding, but that's just me. I wouldn't give anyone any excuses to take action. Our leadership finally 'encouraged' but didn't 'require' us to respond.
 
Fan_of_Meehl said:
I just responded with 5 bullet points describing assessment, diagnostic, treatment planning, suicide screening/ safety planning, intervention duties, etc. Took 2 minutes off the top of my head. I'd just be matter-of-fact about it. I wouldn't recommend sarcasm or not responding, but that's just me. I wouldn't give anyone any excuses to take action. Our leadership finally 'encouraged' but didn't 'require' us to respond.
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Yeah, I think I need to stop being willful and just do what I need to be effective. I sent the email.
 
Fan_of_Meehl said:
To me the greater good is to be found in keeping skilled and dedicated providers such as yourself in the role of helping veterans.

'Discretion is the better part of valor.'
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Yup, I've already said that they're gonna have to fire me. I'm gonna pick my battles. And I hope my leadership will do the same, rather than just rolling over time and time again. At some point, there will be a line in the sand and if they won't draw it, I will. But not today, it seems.
 
I've been listening to this on repeat because it's really resonating with me today

 
I am somewhat conflicted with this, among most of the other absurdity going on. I can understand wanting to limit the damage and care for those in the VA, even if a majority voted for this. However, if we minimize the damage, and take it on ourselves, those people who voted for it will just smile and pat themselves on the back and think they did a good job. I honestly think the best thing to do, is sit back and let it happen, expose people to the full brunt of the consequences of this course of action. Better to see a quick burst of action and (hopefully) a correction, than a slow burn of damage over a long period of time, with the system that caused the damage largely intact to simply keep doing it. Martyrs won't solve this.
 
WisNeuro said:
I am somewhat conflicted with this, among most of the other absurdity going on. I can understand wanting to limit the damage and care for those in the VA, even if a majority voted for this. However, if we minimize the damage, and take it on ourselves, those people who voted for it will just smile and pat themselves on the back and think they did a good job. I honestly think the best thing to do, is sit back and let it happen, expose people to the full brunt of the consequences of this course of action. Better to see a quick burst of action and (hopefully) a correction, than a slow burn of damage over a long period of time, with the system that caused the damage largely intact to simply keep doing it. Martyrs won't solve this.
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I agree. There is no precedent for "disciplining" anyone not responding to something like this... MUCH LESS for/from some faceless entity who is not recognized in your chain of leadership. Trump didn't even say you have to...nor not did the Secretary of VA, right?

It's all so sketchy and outside everything you have learned about infosec and other processes anyway...I just wouldn't do it no matter what rushed and unjustifiable response some VA middle manager told you via a mass email. Have so many of you really done EVERYTHING your VA middle manager boss actually told you to??? I really doubt that. There are so many legitimate ways to justify a non-response, its unreal. A
"line in the sand" has to be drawn here.
 
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There are many ways to justify it, but they might still try and that's a fight I don't want to have at the moment. Trump's whole deal is breaking the law and exhausting people with legal battles when they push back.
 
cara susanna said:
There are many ways to justify it, but they might still try and that's a fight I don't want to have at the moment. Trump's whole deal is breaking the law and exhausting people with legal battles when they push back.
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I empathize. I do. I just couldn't do it or tolerate it, personally.

I think a hard look at one's career, knowledge, skills, and the APA ethics code is in order here. This not something you reply to and it's just "over" or "all good" for you moving forward. That is NOT what is happening here, folks! Again, I still don't think many (VA leadership, mainly) truly "get" what is happening.

They don't care about you. Or veterans. AT ALL. AT ALL!

Its a big club folks...and you ain't in it!
 
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docloufan said:
I empathize. I just couldn't do it or tolerate it, personally. Think a hard look at one's career, knowledge, skills, and the APA ethics code is in order here. This not something you reply to and its just "over" or "all good" for you moving forward. That is not what is happening here. Again, I still don't think many really get it.
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I get it, and this was honestly one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. I am aware of the slippery slope and, if this continues, I can't say I will respond in a similar manner.
 
cara susanna said:
I get it, and this was honestly one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. I am aware of the slippery slope and, if this continues, I can't say I will respond in a similar manner.
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This is bigger AND more strategic than you can even dream. 100% guaranteed.
 
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cara susanna said:
There are many ways to justify it, but they might still try and that's a fight I don't want to have at the moment. Trump's whole deal is breaking the law and exhausting people with legal battles when they push back.
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100%.

Document everything, keep local copies separate from VA system, & dare them to fire you.

I agree with Wis though, gotta let it burn and don’t let them try and revise history. I’m sorry that VA leadership are being cowards.
 
Well, there you go VA employees, your department heads are willing to go ahead and have you comply with an idiot savant who just admitted he was just ****ing with you. And, nothing will happen to him, or anyone involved. So, they will continue to **** with you. All of that anxiety/anger/etc that you felt over the past few days, get ready for that periodically over the next X number of years.
 
cara susanna said:
Yup, I've already said that they're gonna have to fire me. I'm gonna pick my battles. And I hope my leadership will do the same, rather than just rolling over time and time again. At some point, there will be a line in the sand and if they won't draw it, I will. But not today, it seems.
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They will always roll over. VA leadership is super weak
 
psy.d. 2021 said:
They will always roll over. VA leadership is super weak
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Most of them always have been. At the moment, though, you are all just a couple of billionaire's playthings. They are literally laughing at you. I left for far less than this in the VA. Up to y'all to decide how long you want to be in this position.
 
You people (including you reading this...yes, you) really don't get it...do you?

Its over now. It's done. The take over is complete now. They said jump. You asked how high? This is the goal. This is the permission.
 
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monkey GIF


Dance, monkeys!
 
WisNeuro said:
Most of them always have been. At the moment, though, you are all just a couple of billionaire's playthings. They are literally laughing at you. I left for far less than this in the VA. Up to y'all to decide how long you want to be in this position.
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That depends on how you look at things. It is Februrary. Performance evals are in October. If I am not making till then, there are no rules. Making it to my anniversary date means more severance and pension.

Let them laugh, I am playing the long game.
 
WisNeuro said:
Well, there you go VA employees, your department heads are willing to go ahead and have you comply with an idiot savant who just admitted he was just ****ing with you. And, nothing will happen to him, or anyone involved. So, they will continue to **** with you. All of that anxiety/anger/etc that you felt over the past few days, get ready for that periodically over the next X number of years.
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Idiot savant???

Nazi dummy.... more like it. He already admitted it, openly.

All this is make believe nonsense and has me believing everyone else might be literally Intellectual Disabled.

Like, literally, this is embarrassing.
 
Sanman said:
That depends on how you look at things. It is Februrary. Performance evals are in October. If I am not making till then, there are no rules. Making it to my anniversary date means more severance and pension.

Let them laugh, I am playing the long game.
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I would not feel all that secure in a government pension. Governmental pensions have been reduced/raided before.
 
WisNeuro said:
That's fair, I just wouldn't want two of those stools being completely reliant on the government. Especially when one of those likely won't be solvent in a couple of decades.
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I still trust the federal government to meet its obligations more than a state or private company. In my personal case, it is all gravy. If we are at the point where I am struggling to retire, there is probably already blood in the streets and I likely don't live in the country anymore.
 
docloufan said:
You people (including you reading this...yes, you) really don't get it...do you?

Its over now. It's done. The take over is complete now. They said jump. You asked how high? This is the goal. This is the permission.
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WisNeuro said:
monkey GIF


Dance, monkeys!
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Okay, crap like this is NOT helpful. I feel bad enough about responding to this damn email. I agonized about it for hours. You don't have to make me feel even WORSE. I'm not an idiot. I know what's going on and what the intent is. But that doesn't exactly change reality.

I know it's hard to believe, but I actually love my job. I want to keep it. I also don't want to have to find another job and start over. Is that SO wrong? Is it my fault? Shouldn't we instead blame the authoritarians who are giving us these ****ty choices?
 
cara susanna said:
Okay, crap like this is NOT helpful. I feel bad enough about responding to this damn email. I agonized about it for hours. You don't have to make me feel even WORSE.

I know it's hard to believe, but I actually love my job. I want to keep it. I also don't want to have to find another job and start over. Is that SO wrong? Is it my fault? Shouldn't we instead blame the authoritarians who are giving us these ****ty choices?
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You should be angry. You deserve better than this. You deserve better than the people you serve voting for exactly this to happen. This stuff likely won't stop, it's probably just the beginning. It's definitely not your fault, but you shouldn't martyr yourself for it, either.
 
cara susanna said:
Okay, crap like this is NOT helpful. I feel bad enough about responding to this damn email. I agonized about it for hours. You don't have to make me feel even WORSE. I'm not an idiot. I know what's going on and what the intent is. But that doesn't exactly change reality.

I know it's hard to believe, but I actually love my job. I want to keep it. I also don't want to have to find another job and start over. Is that SO wrong? Is it my fault? Shouldn't we instead blame the authoritarians who are giving us these ****ty choices?
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You are right. I apologize. I will maintain that there is level of naivete in alot of people i have talked to about this that is just astonishing to me, however.
 
cara susanna said:
Okay, crap like this is NOT helpful. I feel bad enough about responding to this damn email. I agonized about it for hours. You don't have to make me feel even WORSE. I'm not an idiot. I know what's going on and what the intent is. But that doesn't exactly change reality.

I know it's hard to believe, but I actually love my job. I want to keep it. I also don't want to have to find another job and start over. Is that SO wrong? Is it my fault? Shouldn't we instead blame the authoritarians who are giving us these ****ty choices?
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A piece of advice from someone in the trenches with you. Don't agonize too much over what to do, they certainly aren't. The truth is that they are going to do what they want no matter your choices and that is their fault.

Certainly mourn the loss of what you thought your career was going to look like and be angry about the difficult choices you have to make.

Just like many of the patients we treat, a terrible thing is happening and many of us will have to bear the consequences simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
WisNeuro said:
You should be angry. You deserve better than this. You deserve better than the people you serve voting for exactly this to happen. This stuff likely won't stop, it's probably just the beginning. It's definitely not your fault, but you shouldn't martyr yourself for it, either.
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I won't martyr myself, but I also am not going to let this spoiled, Nazi idiot push me out of a job that I love. They will have to fire me. The only exception as I mentioned is if they change our required patient contact hours or I lose more admin time.

Also, my VA really seems to think that town halls are a solution to everything. We're having another one this week. Haha.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
We got an email telling us to be vigilant about phishing emails claiming to be from DOGE.. kind of hard when the actual emails from DOGE seem like the most blatant phishing examples I’ve ever seen.
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We got that message too. Anything weird is getting marked as phishing until they start going through normal channels.
 
To those who do telework (at least some days), are you continuing to telework until that May deadline?
 
So how safe are VA psychologists in the upcoming RIFs? New memorandum outlining more details does not seem to directly exclude VHA from a RIF.

RIF Memo
 
Psychologist1234 said:
So how safe are VA psychologists in the upcoming RIFs? New memorandum outlining more details does not seem to directly exclude VHA from a RIF.

RIF Memo
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No idea. This depends on the VA's plan for reorganization. If you are in leadership, I would watch out. I could see psychology chiefs or training coordinators on the chopping block.
 
Psychologist1234 said:
So how safe are VA psychologists in the upcoming RIFs? New memorandum outlining more details does not seem to directly exclude VHA from a RIF.

RIF Memo
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There being a real answer only makes sense if they adhered to some kind of standards. They have consistently shown they don't mean what they say.
 
Sanman said:
No idea. This depends on the VA's plan for reorganization. If you are in leadership, I would watch out. I could see psychology chiefs or training coordinators on the chopping block.
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I mean, in the 13 yrs I've been at VA, I went from having only three supervisors above me (Psychology Service Chief --> Medical Chief of Staff --> Facility Director) to--by my count-- currently SIX (three new 'layers').
 
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