VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

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futureapppsy2 said:
I’m struggling with something—I have a job offer outside the VA that would be a pay increase and re-unite with my SO (we’ve been long distance for about 11 months as I’ve been working my VA job and looking for a transfer). My anniversary at the VA is end of July 1 and I’m wondering if it makes sense to try to stay for the full 12 months for TIG or take the beginning of June start date that the new position prefers. It would probably cost me an additional $3.5k in rent to stay until July 1, so there’s that.
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I think on the pro/con list the answer is pretty clear. Go to your SO friend!
 
Sanman said:
Yeah, let's see VA allow that. More likely, you can see them for less than medicare money, twice the paperwork, and you won't see the cash for 6+ months.
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Yeah, my understanding is that VA pays Medicare rates. Although at least while I was at VA, I heard that the administrative burden wasn't bad, and the VA was decently timely in paying (which was a big change from in the past before some of the revamps to Community Care a few years ago).
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Yeah, my understanding is that VA pays Medicare rates. Although at least while I was at VA, I heard that the administrative burden wasn't bad, and the VA was decently timely in paying (which was a big change from in the past before some of the revamps to Community Care a few years ago).
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May be regional, I am hearing the opposite here.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Yeah, my understanding is that VA pays Medicare rates. Although at least while I was at VA, I heard that the administrative burden wasn't bad, and the VA was decently timely in paying (which was a big change from in the past before some of the revamps to Community Care a few years ago).
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Rates here are unadjusted Medicare rates but, at least those I have talked with around here, says payment is somewhere between 60 - 120 days.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Huh. Seeing on the VHA HR subreddit that there may be no RIF. Kind of surprising? Thoughts?
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Musk having left the building may have taken pressure off. Still seems like anything is possible and rumors abound. I wouldn't be surprised if there was smaller RIF than originally planned for, and a larger reorganization process that drags out. Perhaps out of a realization that you can't fire 80k people without a whole lot more planning if you don't want a very public mess on your hands.
 
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Psychologist1234 said:
Do you actually have first or secondhand knowledge of the RIF/reorg plan being completed?
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My dude. This had been in the news and in-the know for months now. Publicized, advertised, attested to in official memos. etc.

What, exactly, are we questioning here? Someone may be coming to save you at the last minute??? 3:1... no. Past history predictive of future history and all. Probably best to stop with the "I heard" rumors, yea?

There is nonsensical stuff happening in this administration. The minute you start thinking "it wont happen to me, because..."

THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. ITS A BIG CLUB...AND YOU AINT IN IT!
 
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docloufan said:
My dude. This had been in the news and in-the know for months now. Publicized, advertised, attested to in official memos. etc.

What, exactly, are we questioning here? Someone may be coming to save you at the last minute??? 3:1... no. Past history predictive of future history and all. Probably best to stop with the "I heard" rumors, yea?

There is nonsensical stuff happening. THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. ITS A BIG CLUB...AND YOU AINT IN IT!
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The press conferences signal something more chaotic is happening in the background. It feels equally likely that they will fire thousands of people and zero people based on the available data. Unless there is something more concrete, I wouldn't place bets on anything.
 
Shiori said:
The press conferences signal something more chaotic is happening in the background. It feels equally likely that they will fire thousands of people and zero people based on the available data. Unless there is something more concrete, I wouldn't place bets on anything.
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My greater point may actually be that you are NOT garbage. Right?

Less support staff, less autonomy, less clinical judgment, and no schedule flexibility is not exactly a workers market in 2025...much less a Ph.D. Psychologist market in 2025. Do you have any idea how common it is for Ph.Ds to have scheduling flexibility and work from home days outside the VA? It's 2025, folks. It's the norm! Live in the now!
 
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docloufan said:
The greater point may actually be that you are NOT garbage.

Less support staff, less autonomy, less clinical judgment, and no schedule flexibility is not exactly a workers market...much less a Psychologists market in 2025. Do you have any idea how common it is for Ph.Ds to have scheduling flexibility and work from home days outside the VA? It's 2025, folks. It's the norm! Live in the now!
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I get the sense you mean well, but the messaging is probably not landing the way you're hoping.
 
Shiori said:
I get the sense you mean well, but the messaging is probably not landing the way you're hoping.
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I don't know what this means. There is no "messaging" here. People are doing rumor stuff from the interwebs. No one is coming to save you. Terrible advice and rumors being given here.
 
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Shiori said:
We can do some hiring. It's just slow and painful. We just approved several positions.
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I mean, yea, maybe. But mostly no. No Ph.D. signs up to be a 8-5 office "wage worker." Are you kidding me?
 
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docloufan said:
I don't know what this means. There is no "messaging" here. People are doing rumor stuff from the interwebs. No one is coming to save you. Terrible advice and rumors being given here.
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I've said this before: those of us in the VA are choosing to stay there right now. Please respect our decision, even if you don't agree with it. It's not helpful for us to keep hearing "you shouldn't stay, there are better options." Like, we probably are just as aware of you, if not more, of what we're facing. Staying in this job doesn't mean we're in denial. And those other options aren't always available to us, or they come with just as many cons.
 
docloufan said:
My dude. This had been in the news and in-the know for months now. Publicized, advertised, attested to in official memos. etc.

What, exactly, are we questioning here? Someone may be coming to save you at the last minute??? 3:1... no. Past history predictive of future history and all. Probably best to stop with the "I heard" rumors, yea?

There is nonsensical stuff happening in this administration. The minute you start thinking "it wont happen to me, because..."

THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. ITS A BIG CLUB...AND YOU AINT IN IT!
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That was a long way to say “no, I don’t have any actual firsthand knowledge.” You originally stated that the VA RIF and reorg plans are “already done,” which is stating a very specific thing. There are no reports that the VA RIF plans have been finalized. You complain about “rumors,” but you are contributing to these rumors. A RIF at VA still may happen, but people (e.g., you) need to stop pretending to definitively know things that they in fact do not know. If we believed every “the sky is falling” rumor online, 100% of clinical staff should have been fired by now and private contractors brought in to replace us.
 
Psychologist1234 said:
That was a long way to say “no, I don’t have any actual firsthand knowledge.” You originally stated that the VA RIF and reorg plans are “already done,” which is stating a very specific thing. There are no reports that the VA RIF plans have been finalized. You complain about “rumors,” but you are contributing to these rumors. A RIF at VA still may happen, but people (e.g., you) need to stop pretending to definitively know things that they in fact do not know. If we believed every “the sky is falling” rumor online, 100% of clinical staff should have been fired by now and private contractors brought in to replace us.
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Psychologist1234 said:
That was a long way to say “no, I don’t have any actual firsthand knowledge.” You originally stated that the VA RIF and reorg plans are “already done,” which is stating a very specific thing. There are no reports that the VA RIF plans have been finalized. You complain about “rumors,” but you are contributing to these rumors. A RIF at VA still may happen, but people (e.g., you) need to stop pretending to definitively know things that they in fact do not know. If we believed every “the sky is falling” rumor online, 100% of clinical staff should have been fired by now and private contractors brought in to replace us.
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Never said anything like '100% of clinical staff should have been fired by now and private contractors brought in to replace us." But....its happening, folks. They don't care about you. They don't need you. And I 100% guarantee that jobs are cut...weeks ago. Again, they don't care about you! How many times do I need to say this?
 
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WisNeuro said:
They can keep the RIF tangled up in courts for a while, but in the meantime, they can just not fill open positions and make life even more unbearable in the VA.
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Shiori said:
We can do some hiring. It's just slow and painful. We just approved several positions.
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cara susanna said:
I've said this before: those of us in the VA are choosing to stay there right now. Please respect our decision, even if you don't agree with it. It's not helpful for us to keep hearing "you shouldn't stay, there are better options." Like, we probably are just as aware of you, if not more, of what we're facing. Staying in this job doesn't mean we're in denial. And those other options aren't always available to us, or they come with just as many cons.
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At the end of the day, there are two different issues going on. The first is the RIF. If you are a clinical provider seeing patients, the likelihood of you actually getting fired is slim. While it is a scary thought, not likely.

The second is the RTO, this is still being sorted out. Per reddit, clinical resource hub folks may have just been approved for an exemption to RTO nationally. I believe mental health staff generally were third in line for exemption to RTO. While I agree that there are many flexible options outside the VA, nothing other than partial RTO has happened yet. Personally, nothing has changed for me because they cannot find a local office. When they do, I will avail myself of my choices. Some already have. However, what happens will likely be based on each person's and individual department's circumstances.
 
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Sanman said:
At the end of the day, there are two different issues going on. The first is the RIF. If you are a clinical provider seeing patients, the likelihood of you actually getting fired is slim. While it is a scary thought, not likely.

The second is the RTO, this is still being sorted out. Per reddit, clinical resource hub folks may be approved from an exemption to RTO. I believe mental health staff generally were third in line for exemption to RTO. While I agree that there are many flexible options outside the VA, nothing other than partial RTO has happened yet. Personally, nothing has changed for me because they cannot find a local office. When they do, I will avail myself of my choices. Some already have. However, what happens will likely be based on each person's circumstances.
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Good friend here was remote as a pharmacy director out west. Forced into RTO and is now in a cubicle farm that the VA rented for the telehealth former WFH peeps here.
 
docloufan said:
Never said anything like '100% of clinical staff should have been fired by now and private contractors brought in to replace us." But....its happening, folks. They don't care about you., They don't need you.
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You did say definitively that VA has completed the RIF plans…which is a rumor. You’re in the wrong here. Stop spreading rumors.
 
WisNeuro said:
I won't be as forceful as some, but in the many people I know who have left the VA, myself included, I have never heard anyone regret that decision. And that was before all of this recent nonsense with the Trump admin.
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I think both things can be true though. People who left can largely be happier (which makes sense), but people can also choose to stay (for a range of reasons), and telling them repeatedly it’s a bad idea is usually not helpful.
 
WisNeuro said:
Good friend here was remote as a pharmacy director out west. Forced into RTO and is now in a cubicle farm that the VA rented for the telehealth former WFH peeps here.
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That sounds like my personal hell bc Cubicle Life is soul sucking. Back in the day I went from a corner office (startup) to a contract consulting gig where I was relegated to a cubicle, and I literally counted down the days until I could quit.
 
WisNeuro said:
Good friend here was remote as a pharmacy director out west. Forced into RTO and is now in a cubicle farm that the VA rented for the telehealth former WFH peeps here.
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I have heard all sorts of things from post offices to rented spaces to make shift cubicles. If they shove me into the local post office 5 min away from home then I am in less of a rush to leave than if I have a 60 mile commute. Either way, it will get sorted eventually.

In the meantime, I need to finish deciding on a practice name for my LLC paperwork.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
I think both things can be true though. People who left can largely be happier (which makes sense), but people can also choose to stay (for a range of reasons), and telling them repeatedly it’s a bad idea is usually not helpful.
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Meh, I've gotten a couple to jump ship who were very hesitant, and they still thank me for it. Put down the buckets and just let that ship sink, folks. Let people actually experience the consequences of their votes/actions, and then maybe we can get some positive change in place. Otherwise, just get used to the cycle.

Therapist4Chnge said:
That sounds like my personal hell bc Cubicle Life is soul sucking. Back in the day I went from a corner office (startup) to a contract consulting gig where I was relegated to a cubicle, and I literally counted down the days until I could quit.
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Yeah, if people are willing to get shuffled into the cubicle, not sure there is a red line in terms of leaving at that point.
 
Sanman said:
I have heard all sorts of things from post offices to rented spaces to make shift cubicles. If they they shove me into the local post office 5 min away from home then I am in less of a rush to leave than if I have a 60 mile commute. Either way, it will get sorted eventually.

In the meantime, I need to finish deciding on a name for my LLC paperwork.
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Yeah, in his case, it's a cubicle farm about 25 minutes away near downtown....in no traffic.
 
WisNeuro said:
Yeah, in his case, it's a cubicle farm about 25 minutes away near downtown....in no traffic.
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Honestly, not the worst I have heard. The local medical centers are all parking nightmares per old colleagues and friends. No space for the clinicians assigned there, let alone someone that works for a different VISN. Curious to see what happens as I assumed they would offer me space in July after the RIF. Now that it is delayed...
 
Sanman said:
Honestly, not the worst I have heard. The local medical centers are all parking nightmares per old colleagues and friends. No space for the clinicians assigned there, let alone someone that works for a different VISN. Curious to see what happens be are I assumed they would offer me space in July after the RIF. Now that it is delayed...
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Not the worst, but that 1-2 hour commute per day now sucks compared to jumping on the computer in the home office. We used to do coffee Friday mornings every other week, that's toast now.
 
Sanman said:
I have heard all sorts of things from post offices to rented spaces to make shift cubicles. If they shove me into the local post office 5 min away from home then I am in less of a rush to leave than if I have a 60 mile commute. Either way, it will get sorted eventually.

In the meantime, I need to finish deciding on a practice name for my LLC paperwork.
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Remember the 'Air Commission' report?

"This website provides information regarding the Department of Veterans Affairs' (VA) recommendations to the Asset and Infrastructure Review (AIR) Commission to modernize and realign the VA health care system."

www.va.gov

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.
www.va.gov www.va.gov

Name your clinic 'The Veterans F-AIRs Clinic'

Emphasis on the "*F*"
 
For the people who post regularly, I think we're all well aware of the pros and cons of the VA. We get "nudged" to leave regularly.

Any new people stumbling upon this thread for the first time will literally see 128 pages of ranting about the VA.

I already have complaints about my little private practice. It's fun. I love it. It's still work, and it has its own issues.

The VA pays more than the local hospitals. The local hospitals have been in person for a couple of years already. Please trust that people know what they're doing.
 
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