- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 9,316
- Reaction score
- 5,577
I've heard Mission Act pay isn't horrible, but that's second-hand information; I've not looked up the rates myself.
I tend to think that if I take the actual 'mission' to heart, then I'll be taken care of. But I've been pretty naive before. It ain't a virtue.I've heard Mission Act pay isn't horrible, but that's second-hand information; I've not looked up the rates myself.
I've heard Mission Act pay isn't horrible, but that's second-hand information; I've not looked up the rates myself.
Hope someone can give some advice or info...
my spouse is a VA “graduate” psychologist at the GS-12 level and failed EPPP for the 2nd time. Sadly the 2 year timeline to obtain a license as a VA employee is now a couple weeks away. Her supervisor is already in the process with HR to get a term date set.
any thoughts or remedies? I wasn’t sure if the 2 year timeline (per 38 U.S.C. § 7405 [(c)(2)(B)]) pertains to the current job/position she is in or if she could reapply for some other VA psychologist position at another location at the GS-11 level.
my spouse is a VA “graduate” psychologist at the GS-12 level and failed EPPP for the 2nd time. Sadly the 2 year timeline to obtain a license as a VA employee is now a couple weeks away. Her supervisor is already in the process with HR to get a term date set.
I know the Lexington, KY VA shut theirs down not too long agoI have been following this listserv (for mental health C&P folks at VA) for the past four years on a daily/weekly basis. There have always been 'rumors' and rumblings and the occasional minor downsizing. This time it's for real. Multiple posters chiming in that they have just gotten word recently that the plan is to shut it all down. Some completely shut down very soon. Some departments will (if I remember correctly) try to eliminate roughly 25% of staff and assessments per quarter while increasing community exams commensurate with that draw down until they reach zero in-house exams. D-Day for C&P is here.
I'm not familiar with the 2 year timeline to get licensed--does that clock start ticking once you start as a psychologist?
I believe so, yes. I know few people who've done this and became licensed within a year or so of their start date.
I'm not familiar with the 2 year timeline to get licensed--does that clock start ticking once you start as a psychologist?
It's a requirement of gs-11 or gs-12 psychologists and is in their VA contract when they are highered for the position that is a full performance gs-13. No real wiggle room as it comes from HR. We just finished hiring a gs-12 and checked this with HR recently.
I know the Lexington, KY VA shut theirs down not too long ago
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Is there not another position in mental health she may apply for? I work in VA mental health and we need all the help we can get.Per her supervisor they stated that their hands are tied and cannot extend the timeline. I’m not certain but I believe they can extend for providers who do not have patient contact. Ex: research position.
Is there not another position in mental health she may apply for? I work in VA mental health and we need all the help we can get.
From what I know, our psychologists typically get 60 mins.
I've heard of 90, but more commonly for psychiatrists than psychologists (I think).
60 just seems really short to me given all of the administrative requirements (e.g, the CSRE).
Good Lord, what is that? More MH suite nonsense?
All MH clinic and I think specialty clinic intakes/new patients were a 60 minute slot when I was there. The PCMHI intake was bare bones (and we still fudged the 90791 code for it), but the MH clinic intake template (for psychology) was not much more comprehensive and a complete joke when I was there.
Comprehensive Suicide Risk Evaluation. We have to do a suicide screener (the Columbia) for every mental health intake, even if it isn't due.
So, if you see a patient who screens positive and then you have to do a CSRE... then imagine you have to do a safety plan, and possibly a suicide behavior report. That just eats up time. Whenever I've tried to do 60 min intakes with complex patients I've run out of time. And, yeah, that doesn't include the admin stuff like Mental Health Suite or Mental Health Assistant.
And...
Get ready for the Therametrics 'Behavioral Health Lab' software (I am one of a small handful of providers who have been voluntold to use this software).
An entirely separate software package that (sorta) integrates with CPRS where you get to enter all of your client's self-report questionnaire (PCL's, PHQ's) responses.
I think we passed ridiculous about five years ago.
'Behavioral Health Lab.' 'Lab.'
Yeah...pretty much just a glorified Excel spreadsheet of questionnaire responses with a clunky, buggy and slow Visual Basic front end interface tacked on.
'Lab.'
How does this differ from MHA?
That was my exact question. Easier for data extraction or something? Allows the bean counters to more easily track compliance?
It appears to be a replacement for Mental Health Assistant and they are 'piloting' it in my VISN...we're some of the lucky few who get to be required to use it (for all cases) first. But, don't worry, it'll make its way out into the entire organization to become yet another software requirement soon enough. The local social workers (who run mental health here) and administrators couldn't stop cooing and ranting how it heralds a 'new' era of 'evidence-based care' and how it is going to 'revolutionize' everything and bring in the mental health utopia.
It appears to be a replacement for Mental Health Assistant and they are 'piloting' it in my VISN...we're some of the lucky few who get to be required to use it (for all cases) first. But, don't worry, it'll make its way out into the entire organization to become yet another software requirement soon enough. The local social workers (who run mental health here) and administrators couldn't stop cooing and ranting how it heralds a 'new' era of 'evidence-based care' and how it is going to 'revolutionize' everything and bring in the mental health utopia.
To be fair, it is an improvement over MHA; in fact, it appears that clinicians may have actually had some input into its development (which is astonishing). However, I often wonder how my mentors from grad school (who write books about how to do cognitive therapy) or the likes of Judith Beck, David Barlow, or Marsha Linehan would try to make it practicing in the current VA environment. I'm all for 'evidence-based care' and quality therapy. However, the VA is currently utilizing bachelor's level folks (who might have a degree in History or something) to 'audit' (really supervise) the clinical work of doctoral-level providers via a chart review and judge the 'quality' of their written treatment plans. We don't even treat trainees/interns that way. At least if you are going to critique a grad student's work, you have to actually meet with them face-to-face and interface with them to provide some actual supervision. One issue is that probably 80% of VA workers (non-providers) have had positions where they did, say, 5 hours of work in a 40 hour work period but now with an increased emphasis on 'productivity' (along with the fact that they can't fire anyone), all the non-provider positions are having to make more work for themselves (which generally involves them 'reviewing' the work of providers for 'quality assurance'), making the providers miserable and actually less productive for having to satisfy the 20 different 'masters' who are continually taking more and more pieces out of the providers as we struggle to provide complex patient care services. It's a death spiral at this point for the organization.If it's actually an improvement over MHA (which can be a bit slow and cumbersome to use), I'd welcome it. Although I wonder if it was just an eventual necessity, given the move away from CPRS.
But yes, it's sad that "evidence-based care" has seemingly become synonymous with, "give as many checklists, questionnaires, and semi-structured 'interviews' to the patient as you can."
To be fair, it is an improvement over MHA; in fact, it appears that clinicians may have actually had some input into its development (which is astonishing). However, I often wonder how my mentors from grad school (who write books about how to do cognitive therapy) or the likes of Judith Beck, David Barlow, or Marsha Linehan would try to make it practicing in the current VA environment. I'm all for 'evidence-based care' and quality therapy. However, the VA is currently utilizing bachelor's level folks (who might have a degree in History or something) to 'audit' (really supervise) the clinical work of doctoral-level providers via a chart review and judge the 'quality' of their written treatment plans. We don't even treat trainees/interns that way. At least if you are going to critique a grad student's work, you have to actually meet with them face-to-face and interface with them to provide some actual supervision. One issue is that probably 80% of VA workers (non-providers) have had positions where they did, say, 5 hours of work in a 40 hour work period but now with an increased emphasis on 'productivity' (along with the fact that they can't fire anyone), all the non-provider positions are having to make more work for themselves (which generally involves them 'reviewing' the work of providers for 'quality assurance'), making the providers miserable and actually less productive for having to satisfy the 20 different 'masters' who are continually taking more and more pieces out of the providers as we struggle to provide complex patient care services. It's a death spiral at this point for the organization.
I work in post-deployment. I'd imagine local autocrats got to choose what subset of their workforce had to pilot it at first. Because...reasons.I thought BHL was only for PCMHI.
I'd actually have no problem entering one or two outcome measures into BHL as long as it spat out a CPRS progress note (with me adding some brief progress note text specific to the encounter) and as long as that covered my documentation requirements. Something like this + a decent clinical case formulation and simple problem/goal list is all the documentation that the luminaries in the field of CBT utilize/require. But that ain't up to the VA's 'standards.' We have to do double-, triple-, and quadruple charting, increasing points-of-failure in the system and making efficiency impossible.To be fair, lots of insurance based care can be the same way. I left the private arena because of garbage like this, but it seems to follow me wherever I go. Out of the getting pan into the fire.
I just found out that my facility is also getting rid of in-house C&P and that this is a nationwide thing. So, yup, this is really happening.
With the plan being to do it all via contract workers, or to move C&P to separate facilities?
To contract out. Some of the sites I've been at have been slowing moving toward that for years and steadily cutting the C&P jobs.With the plan being to do it all via contract workers, or to move C&P to separate facilities?
I've not been overly impressed with most of the contracted reports I've seen, but that's not my battle to fight. I do think this at least has the potential to reduce the confusion of providing healthcare services and disability evaluations in the same building(s), even if the providers are technically working for two separate divisions.
I'm not even joking by saying that they think they can effectively differentially diagnose all disorders in the DSM-5 including (and especially) PTSD in...The C&P reports that are contracted out are generally terrible, in my experience. Certainly there are exceptions, of course. But the majority of the ones that I've seen appear to have been written by someone who never even accessed CPRS, let alone someone who actually did a thorough chart review. I get that the reimbursement rate is terrible, but in my opinion it's unethical to accept payment for a C&P exam when you haven't done the background work necessary to make a full assessment. Which is why it makes no sense to dismantle a system where paid VA staff members are hired specifically to do C&P - at least a full-time C&P psychologist isn't going to be motivated to cut corners in order to maximize their hourly rate.
I have no interest in doing C&P myself, but there are VA psychologists who do this (or did this, I suppose) as their full time job.
It's not hard really. Just say whatever the payor wants you to say.I'm not even joking by saying that they think they can effectively differentially diagnose all disorders in the DSM-5 including (and especially) PTSD in...
15 - 20 minutes.
Friggin wizards, they are.
...slingin' PCL-5's and professional opinions.It's not hard really. Just say whatever the payor wants you to say.
Nothing like trading good jobs for crappy ones. Another win for the field.
...slingin' PCL-5's and professional opinions.
Good assembly-line gig if you don't give a damn about the profession.
It is an abysmal and prostitutorial gig, to be sure. We all have our boundaries. And that is one I enforce on myself.It would only be good if it paid well. Most of those, the person that gets the contract takes half the money and the psychologist doing the evaluation gets the liability. Only good if you want to set some suckers up for poor pay and have the money to bank roll it.