VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

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PSA: Someone needs to tell the folks over here insisting that we accept folks with increasing acuity that the folks over there want increased access and productivity because these two things do not go together. That is all.

There's this SAIL metric in PTSD clinics that assesses "penetration" - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have been seen in your clinic. And then there's a metric that measures delivery of EBPs in PTSD clinics - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have received CPT or PE.

Without fail, if a clinic is doing well in the latter but poor in the former, leadership gives them guff about it. The clinic lead then has to explain that it is IMPOSSIBLE to do well in both. They are contradictory and compete against each other. You cannot see everyone with a PTSD diagnosis in your clinic (a specialty clinic, at that!) and still have good EBP access. All the PTSD National people have been able to do is get the penetration metric weighed less, and the EBP metric weighed far more. But they can't get rid of it entirely.

Literally, you are set up to fail.
 
There's this SAIL metric in PTSD clinics that assesses "penetration" - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have been seen in your clinic. And then there's a metric that measures delivery of EBPs in PTSD clinics - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have received CPT or PE.

Without fail, if a clinic is doing well in the latter but poor in the former, leadership gives them guff about it. The clinic lead then has to explain that it is IMPOSSIBLE to do well in both. They are contradictory and compete against each other. You cannot see everyone with a PTSD diagnosis in your clinic (a specialty clinic, at that!) and still have good EBP access. All the PTSD National people have been able to do is get the penetration metric weighed less, and the EBP metric weighed far more. But they can't get rid of it entirely.

Literally, you are set up to fail.

We solved this in the other thread. Everyone has PTSD or at least anyone willing to show up for an EBP. No trauma necessary.
 
EDIT: With this, I have inadvertently realized that Star Wars was an allegory about modern American healthcare.

Luke Skywalker - Eager intern/resident
Obi wan Kenobi - Wise supervisor that is slightly grizzled
Yoda - Famous VA psychologist that wrote a textbook you once read and remembers when VA staff took two hour daily lunches
Darth Vader - Rich private practice owner
Han Solo - Renegade therapist turned life coach that is all about the money, but still likable
Chewbacca - Therapy Dog
Prince Leia: passionate therapist who gets burned out and leaves the VA

R2-D2: what management wishes all of us could aspire to be

C-3PO: “Well, not everybody can be R2-D2 so we’ll settle for the neurotic droid version”

Jabba the Hut: stand in for your least favorite Executive Suite management person at your facility. Except instead of their hubris/etc causing their downfall, they will be promoted to the VISN or VACO in due time.

Jar Jar Binks: all of us have had a Jar Jar in therapy (or still do)

That rude bartender who tells Luke that he can’t bring C-3PO into the bar in A New Hope and then begrudgingly gives Luke his drink: MSAs
 
There's this SAIL metric in PTSD clinics that assesses "penetration" - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have been seen in your clinic.
I feel like metric based discussions on trauma services, which likely includes lots of MST care, shouldn’t involve the troubleshooting on how to increase penetration, ya know?
 
There's this SAIL metric in PTSD clinics that assesses "penetration" - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have been seen in your clinic. And then there's a metric that measures delivery of EBPs in PTSD clinics - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have received CPT or PE.

Without fail, if a clinic is doing well in the latter but poor in the former, leadership gives them guff about it. The clinic lead then has to explain that it is IMPOSSIBLE to do well in both. They are contradictory and compete against each other. You cannot see everyone with a PTSD diagnosis in your clinic (a specialty clinic, at that!) and still have good EBP access. All the PTSD National people have been able to do is get the penetration metric weighed less, and the EBP metric weighed far more. But they can't get rid of it entirely.

Literally, you are set up to fail.
Same thing with what percentage of your clinic slots are full (with scheduled patients).

After getting fussed at for having 'no access' (all slots filled for next couple of months) in the past but also, most recently, fussed out for having 'availability' (like...a few slots/ week) in my clinics...

I recently asked my supervisor to please tell me what the actual target percentage (or range) was that they thought would be ideal for me to shoot for (assuming, for the sake of argument, that I even control (which I don't) how full my schedule is). They can't even do that. I refuse to be 'fussed at' for not meeting an 'outcome' that supervisors/admins cannot even identify.

Of course, they changed the subject but prior to them doing so I told them that I could make a really strong argument that the percentage 'full' one's schedule should optimally be would be between 85-95% full (so you could actually have slots to put new patients into).
 
Prince Leia: passionate therapist who gets burned out and leaves the VA

R2-D2: what management wishes all of us could aspire to be

C-3PO: “Well, not everybody can be R2-D2 so we’ll settle for the neurotic droid version”

Jabba the Hut: stand in for your least favorite Executive Suite management person at your facility. Except instead of their hubris/etc causing their downfall, they will be promoted to the VISN or VACO in due time.

Jar Jar Binks: all of us have had a Jar Jar in therapy (or still do)

That rude bartender who tells Luke that he can’t bring C-3PO into the bar in A New Hope and then begrudgingly gives Luke his drink: MSAs
I prefer to go my own way (with my own methods, tools, custom questionnaires, 'secret' protocols, etc. to handle the reality of outpatient practice (80% of problems relate to overreporting/under-engagement rather than what people think are the problems)...

Which makes The Mandalorian my Star Wars spirit animal.

Screw The Empire and screw the idealism of the Jedi Order.

Now if only we could take out all the Sith Lords running the joint.
 
We solved this in the other thread. Everyone has PTSD or at least anyone willing to show up for an EBP. No trauma necessary.
The most excruciating experience in outpatient practice (as well as the most reliable/valid way of detecting fake PTSD presentations) is attempting to take someone who doesn't even have PTSD through a CPT protocol.
 
There's this SAIL metric in PTSD clinics that assesses "penetration" - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have been seen in your clinic. And then there's a metric that measures delivery of EBPs in PTSD clinics - how many people with PTSD diagnoses have received CPT or PE.

Without fail, if a clinic is doing well in the latter but poor in the former, leadership gives them guff about it. The clinic lead then has to explain that it is IMPOSSIBLE to do well in both. They are contradictory and compete against each other. You cannot see everyone with a PTSD diagnosis in your clinic (a specialty clinic, at that!) and still have good EBP access. All the PTSD National people have been able to do is get the penetration metric weighed less, and the EBP metric weighed far more. But they can't get rid of it entirely.

Literally, you are set up to fail.
I have yet to encounter a 'SAIL metric' that appears to have been developed with any subtlety, sophistication, or forethought above a brainstem level of reasoning.
 
The most excruciating experience in outpatient practice (as well as the most reliable/valid way of detecting fake PTSD presentations) is attempting to take someone who doesn't even have PTSD through a CPT protocol.

Tell me again how it made you feel when your professor played "The Breakfast Club" without a trigger warning. The future is bright!
 
How many new cases are you all expected to regularly take into your caseloads every week?

Recently, they've been scheduling me for at least three external (to the PCT) incoming consults as well as 2-3 'transfer' (within-team) consults, totaling 5-6 new cases to my caseload PER WEEK. I'm wondering how I'm going to be able to keep up and not be overwhelmed. They are also now starting to schedule new intakes (external) into random 'open' slots (outside of my three dedicated intake slots per week) up to a month in advance. I am regularly emailing my boss to ensure that this is documented (the MASSIVE uptick in rates of new cases flooding my caseload) so that--down the road--when I get 'backed up' I can cite numbers of how many damn new cases I've had to attempt to 'absorb' into my caseload.

With the standard course of CPT being 12 weeks (three MONTHS) per patient...I don't think that a rate of entry of 5-6 new psychotherapy cases PER WEEK is reasonable. Granted, everyone else is abandoning ship (retiring early, moving to non-clinical (or non-outpatient) positions, etc.) and I am having to absorb all of their clients all of a sudden, but this is ridiculous and unsustainable.

Alternatively, if I am expected to do the work (and handle the patient inflow) of three psychologists at once, I need a tripling of my salary.
 
How many new cases are you all expected to regularly take into your caseloads every week?

Recently, they've been scheduling me for at least three external (to the PCT) incoming consults as well as 2-3 'transfer' (within-team) consults, totaling 5-6 new cases to my caseload PER WEEK. I'm wondering how I'm going to be able to keep up and not be overwhelmed. They are also now starting to schedule new intakes (external) into random 'open' slots (outside of my three dedicated intake slots per week) up to a month in advance. I am regularly emailing my boss to ensure that this is documented (the MASSIVE uptick in rates of new cases flooding my caseload) so that--down the road--when I get 'backed up' I can cite numbers of how many damn new cases I've had to attempt to 'absorb' into my caseload.

With the standard course of CPT being 12 weeks (three MONTHS) per patient...I don't think that a rate of entry of 5-6 new psychotherapy cases PER WEEK is reasonable. Granted, everyone else is abandoning ship (retiring early, moving to non-clinical (or non-outpatient) positions, etc.) and I am having to absorb all of their clients all of a sudden, but this is ridiculous and unsustainable.

Alternatively, if I am expected to do the work (and handle the patient inflow) of three psychologists at once, I need a tripling of my salary.
I'm probably on track to experience something similar soon enough and it's not good for patient care.

In my speciality role, I have 2 new patient intake slots weekly. So far, new intakes are not being scheduled into regular followup slots but they keep coming and are getting scheduled further and further out.

Which is fine by me but at some point, I imagine the wait times will get too long and other actions, such as making new intakes slots or using followup slots will happen, especially since access is by far the biggest political priority right now.

And then the question of who will remain being seen weekly, who can I try to push to biweekly and who am I hoping will discontinue treatment so that others who are more engaged/able to attend can be prioritized will become more and more of an issue.

I do this currently but it's mostly manageable as patient preferences balance things out (such as people who work full time and can't make weekly appointments even if offered).

But at some point, the sheer number of active patients on my caseload will tilt this in the wrong direction and my speciality position will experience more and more what BHIP deals with on a daily basis.
 
We each have one intake per week and those patients have to go somewhere. So it's not really a set number but they try to distribute them fairly. It's this constant, steady flow and that's what's most stressful: it never stops. Primary Care is allowed to stop taking new referrals, but we aren't.
 
How many new cases are you all expected to regularly take into your caseloads every week?

Recently, they've been scheduling me for at least three external (to the PCT) incoming consults as well as 2-3 'transfer' (within-team) consults, totaling 5-6 new cases to my caseload PER WEEK. I'm wondering how I'm going to be able to keep up and not be overwhelmed. They are also now starting to schedule new intakes (external) into random 'open' slots (outside of my three dedicated intake slots per week) up to a month in advance. I am regularly emailing my boss to ensure that this is documented (the MASSIVE uptick in rates of new cases flooding my caseload) so that--down the road--when I get 'backed up' I can cite numbers of how many damn new cases I've had to attempt to 'absorb' into my caseload.

With the standard course of CPT being 12 weeks (three MONTHS) per patient...I don't think that a rate of entry of 5-6 new psychotherapy cases PER WEEK is reasonable. Granted, everyone else is abandoning ship (retiring early, moving to non-clinical (or non-outpatient) positions, etc.) and I am having to absorb all of their clients all of a sudden, but this is ridiculous and unsustainable.

Alternatively, if I am expected to do the work (and handle the patient inflow) of three psychologists at once, I need a tripling of my salary.

I am limited based on the number of intakes my primary care team can handle. However, we recently got discovered by PRRC and are now getting slammed with high risk consults. I have had 5-6 consults in as many weeks with active suicidal ideation/recent attempts, bipolar folks off their meds or some combo of those. Given that I already had a full caseload, this is not sustainable. Not to mention they are pushing RVU numbers and all these folks are non-compliant with care.
 
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I am limited based on the number of intakes my primary care team can handle. However, we recently got discovered by PRRC and are now?getting slammed with high risk consults. I have had 5-6 consults in as many weeks with active suicidal ideation/recent attempts, bipolar folks off their meds or some combo of those. Given that I already had a full caseload, this is not sustainable. Not to mention they are pushing RVU numbers and all these folks are non-compliant with care.
It seems like similar phenomena are happening all around the country in VA outpatient mental health

Increased consults/patients requesting therapy, decreased numbers of providers to privide said therapy, 'access issues,' inability to schedule weekly sessions (which means, in essence, no true therapy is getting done), unacknowledged issues with lack of patient engagement in the therapy process, high numbers of no-shows/cancellations...etc.

There is no 'official' source of guidance/help with these issues (that would require admin to admit their existence).

We're left to invent/innovate our own techniques and practices to deal with the realities.

Cue The Mandalorian main theme song.
 
I am limited based on the number of intakes my primary care team can handle. However, we recently got discovered by PRRC and are now getting slammed with high risk consults. I have had 5-6 consults in as many weeks with active suicidal ideation/recent attempts, bipolar folks off their meds or some combo of those. Given that I already had a full caseload, this is not sustainable. Not to mention they are pushing RVU numbers and all these folks are non-compliant with care.

Do you have a SOP with OPMH? Our PCMHI would refuse to take those cases. Also, nationally the mandate is that PCMHI referrals come from PACT, not MH.
 
Do you have a SOP with OPMH? Our PCMHI would refuse to take those cases. Also, nationally the mandate is that PCMHI referrals come from PACT, not MH.

We have SOPs, though not specific to OPMH. I often flag this stuff and can get them rejected because lack the MH resources. However, I was off and several got accepted when I wasn't there. We recently rejected one that made a suicide attempt before we even screened the consult after being non-compliant with PRRC.
 
We each have one intake per week and those patients have to go somewhere. So it's not really a set number but they try to distribute them fairly. It's this constant, steady flow and that's what's most stressful: it never stops. Primary Care is allowed to stop taking new referrals, but we aren't.

WAIT. You guys are at one intake per week in the VA these days!? I'm at one intake per day in a non-VA hospital system. Specialty clinic. Access is the name of the game.

It seems like similar phenomena are happening all around the country in VA outpatient mental health

Increased consults/patients requesting therapy, decreased numbers of providers to privide said therapy, 'access issues,' inability to schedule weekly sessions (which means, in essence, no true therapy is getting done), unacknowledged issues with lack of patient engagement in the therapy process, high numbers of no-shows/cancellations...etc.

Yes. 100%. If we just could do our jobs, patients would get better and use the ED less, use other medical services less, be healthier overall. But.. who is looking at those long term metrics other than academics? Not the government bean quarterly and annual counters. But I guarantee the $ would be in our favor.

I have noticed since 2020 patients are less looking for therapy and to just show up and some one to fix them. Like going to the dentist for a cleaning, or cavity fill if serious **** happening. Its... bizarre. My non-VA system is also giving out time off work letters and disability stuff like candy. I was talking to a colleague about this recently, and it is like the issues with VA the past decade are now prevalent in some aspects of other systems. Not VA related, but I also think that companies like BetterHelp and Cerebral will kill psychology by promoting dumb practices. There will be consequences to society long term. I'm sad for the field.
 
WAIT. You guys are at one intake per week in the VA these days!? I'm at one intake per day in a non-VA hospital system. Specialty clinic. Access is the name of the game.



Yes. 100%. If we just could do our jobs, patients would get better and use the ED less, use other medical services less, be healthier overall. But.. who is looking at those long term metrics other than academics? Not the government bean quarterly and annual counters. But I guarantee the $ would be in our favor.

I have noticed since 2020 patients are less looking for therapy and to just show up and some one to fix them. Like going to the dentist for a cleaning, or cavity fill if serious **** happening. Its... bizarre. My non-VA system is also giving out time off work letters and disability stuff like candy. I was talking to a colleague about this recently, and it is like the issues with VA the past decade are now prevalent in some aspects of other systems. Not VA related, but I also think that companies like BetterHelp and Cerebral will kill psychology by promoting dumb practices. There will be consequences to society long term. I'm sad for the field.
As 'therapy' bleeds into everyday culture more (at least, it feels like it has in my lifetime with the decreasing stigma and apparently increased mainstream interest), it also becomes 'washed out.' What I mean is that there is a loss of subtlety and sophistication and a general diffusion (disappearance?) of meaning of the terms and concepts that--although they may have had a precise, technical, professional meaning before--they have now become 'buzzwords' mindlessly chanted/mouthed everywhere (and in every circumstance) by the masses and the public relations 'admin' types who hold all the power but--at the end of the day--zero responsibility in our increasingly-fragmented and decreasingly-effective mental healthcare systems.

'Trauma' is a good example as a term/concept (and this was extensively explored in another thread).

'(Psycho)Therapy' is another. In the current VA MH system, I see very few (a small handful) of providers actually delivering effective courses of active psychotherapy with patients. Continuity of care is nearly non-existent. The current 'game' appears to be one of getting 'skilled' at shuffling patients from your service/caseload to another person's service/caseload (through entering consults, 'tagging' people on notes, etc.)...I call it the 'Red Rover' ('red rover, red rover, send Mr. Smith right over..') maneuver and it is irritating.

Most MH providers now consider themselves narrow 'specialists' (only providing a 'slice' of intervention focused on a single (or few) very circumscribed targets/disorders/special issues) rather than generalists and, therefore, there are very few therapists who actually treat the 'whole person' in any kind of integrated or comprehensive manner. I think we need to train the vast majority (80%+) of VA mental health therapists as providers who at least have basic competencies to treat the most frequent MH problems our patients present with...for example, I'd argue that if you do MH in VA, even if you are a 'specialist' in a certain area (e.g., MST, Pain, PCMHI, Neuropsych, SUDs, whatever), you should be able to competently work up, diagnose, and treat the following:

- PTSD
- Depression
- Anxiety
- SUDS
- 'anger' issues

These are the frequently encountered presenting issues that everyone keeps 'passing around' to other providers until they eventually land in the caseload of someone who doesn't 'pass them on' to someone else. I'm one such provider (the 'buck' stops with me...I can't even turn down consults (not that I generally would want to, but still). When I get someone sent to me, I'm not thinking, 'hmm...how can I send them somewhere else?'

There needs to be much less passing people around among providers and more continuity of care.

Unfortunately, with the proliferation of different 'layers' of MH care, fractionating into 'PCMHI,' vs. 'BHIP,' vs. 'Specialty' levels of care, we're creating a lot of churn in mental health care, but very little actual meaningful intervention. Moving to a 'BHIP heavy' model is a mistake (at least to the extent that I understand the philosophy underlying BHIP). The BHIP lead at my facility appears to be acting like the 'thalamus' of the nervous system (basically, a relay station through which MH patients travel, but don't stay for therapy/intervention). They're talking about expanding the BHIP psychologist positions from one to five at my facility. Great...four more relay stations. But how many 'destinations' do we have? Like, providers to actually commit to a course of psychotherapy treatment with all those patients. Unfortunately, in our braindead system, providers merely 'touching' a case (by doing an 'assessment/intake' and then passing them along to another provider to do their assessment/intake...who, in turn, passes them to a third provider to.........you get the idea) are getting 'credit' for 'doing a lot of work' or 'seeing a lot of patients' because everyone is about eyeballing some 'easy metric' and fraudulently presenting 'stats' as something that they are not. But that comes from the general traits of cowardice and laziness in the upper levels of management.

I may completely misunderstand the BHIP model (or maybe it is being incorrectly implemented here), but we don't need more of that. We need to go back to the majority of MH providers being able and willing to provide courses of therapy to the majority of veterans with the high-frequency (PTSD, dep/anx, SUDS, etc.) problems. Sending someone to someone else (when you have the ability to offer them a course of effective treatment) needs to become a rarity rather than a routine practice.

Edit: I need to clarify that I don't actually disagree fundamentally with the philosophy of the BHIP model, but the problem is the reality of the VA system and the implementation (or lack thereof) of that philosophy. Basically, what I see happening (and it is already happening) is that people are seeing the BHIP position (at least at my facility) as a perfect political stepping stone to climb the promotion ladder (high visibility position, the next new 'hot' thing) which involves very little actual (messy and labor intensive) clinical intervention. You get to be 'the decider' with the BHIP 'badge' having been deputized to make the decisions regarding where vets need to be sent. There is a lot of power in that position in the corrupt system that we have and I see it already being abused and the potential for worse abuse is pretty amazing. They become de facto supervisors (through their roles of being 'deciders' about where (and how many) patients get sent to whom, and why) and will be able to exert a tremendous amount of influence with 'leadership' and get to reward their political allies and punish their political enemies.

I've seen this system fail over the years due to favoritism and disparate treatment. The good providers get overloaded with far more than their share of cases, get burnt out, and then leave/retire/move on. The cycle just repeats itself. We would be far better off--in my opinion--with a much simpler system. How about just trying to give every provider approximately the same number/frequency of intakes of MH cases over the course of a year and then--at the end of the year--meet with their supervisor to review how they did with those cases? How many are still on your caseload? Why or why not? You know, (gasp), REAL clinical supervision. What interventions/models are you using? Are you still dealing with too many 'hangers on' in your caseload? What support/suggestions can your clinical supervisor provide you to help you with that?

But to do that, we'd have to operate more like a healthcare system rather than a public relations firm.
 
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You guys are at one intake per week in the VA these days!? I'm at one intake per day in a non-VA hospital system. Specialty clinic. Access is the name of the game.
Thanks for the perspective. I had a VA patient recently who worked in a CMH setting who would sometimes cancel our apt if she was scheduled two intakes that day due to miscommunication. So it can definitely be worse in other settings.

I guess some of my lament comes from the fact that our system absolutely has both the resources (money to pay/hire/retain employees) and the ability (have sensical policies/processes that help convince providers to stay in the VA) to do so much better but we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

And the vast majority of mental health providers that I meet genuinely want to help veterans but seemingly more and more are moving on or starting part-time private practices to set up for an eventual move out of the VA.

I guess the numbers game will mean that some other well meaning people will fill some of those spots but things could be so much better if not for politics (duh!).

Happy Thanksgiving y’all!
 
WAIT. You guys are at one intake per week in the VA these days!? I'm at one intake per day in a non-VA hospital system. Specialty clinic. Access is the name of the game.

I used to do up to 6 intakes per day in the non-VA world, but paperwork was significantly smaller and the quality of the intake was often lesser. That still led to burnout after a few years but it did lead to a lot of money being made.
 
As 'therapy' bleeds into everyday culture more (at least, it feels like it has in my lifetime with the decreasing stigma and apparently increased mainstream interest), it also becomes 'washed out.' What I mean is that there is a loss of subtlety and sophistication and a general diffusion (disappearance?) of meaning of the terms and concepts that--although they may have had a precise, technical, professional meaning before--they have now become 'buzzwords' mindlessly chanted/mouthed everywhere (and in every circumstance) by the masses and the public relations 'admin' types who hold all the power but--at the end of the day--zero responsibility in our increasingly-fragmented and decreasingly-effective mental healthcare systems.

'Trauma' is a good example as a term/concept (and this was extensively explored in another thread).

'(Psycho)Therapy' is another. In the current VA MH system, I see very few (a small handful) of providers actually delivering effective courses of active psychotherapy with patients. Continuity of care is nearly non-existent. The current 'game' appears to be one of getting 'skilled' at shuffling patients from your service/caseload to another person's service/caseload (through entering consults, 'tagging' people on notes, etc.)...I call it the 'Red Rover' ('red rover, red rover, send Mr. Smith right over..') maneuver and it is irritating.

Most MH providers now consider themselves narrow 'specialists' (only providing a 'slice' of intervention focused on a single (or few) very circumscribed targets/disorders/special issues) rather than generalists and, therefore, there are very few therapists who actually treat the 'whole person' in any kind of integrated or comprehensive manner. I think we need to train the vast majority (80%+) of VA mental health therapists as providers who at least have basic competencies to treat the most frequent MH problems our patients present with...for example, I'd argue that if you do MH in VA, even if you are a 'specialist' in a certain area (e.g., MST, Pain, PCMHI, Neuropsych, SUDs, whatever), you should be able to competently work up, diagnose, and treat the following:

- PTSD
- Depression
- Anxiety
- SUDS
- 'anger' issues

These are the frequently encountered presenting issues that everyone keeps 'passing around' to other providers until they eventually land in the caseload of someone who doesn't 'pass them on' to someone else. I'm one such provider (the 'buck' stops with me...I can't even turn down consults (not that I generally would want to, but still). When I get someone sent to me, I'm not thinking, 'hmm...how can I send them somewhere else?'

There needs to be much less passing people around among providers and more continuity of care.

Unfortunately, with the proliferation of different 'layers' of MH care, fractionating into 'PCMHI,' vs. 'BHIP,' vs. 'Specialty' levels of care, we're creating a lot of churn in mental health care, but very little actual meaningful intervention. Moving to a 'BHIP heavy' model is a mistake (at least to the extent that I understand the philosophy underlying BHIP). The BHIP lead at my facility appears to be acting like the 'thalamus' of the nervous system (basically, a relay station through which MH patients travel, but don't stay for therapy/intervention). They're talking about expanding the BHIP psychologist positions from one to five at my facility. Great...four more relay stations. But how many 'destinations' do we have? Like, providers to actually commit to a course of psychotherapy treatment with all those patients. Unfortunately, in our braindead system, providers merely 'touching' a case (by doing an 'assessment/intake' and then passing them along to another provider to do their assessment/intake...who, in turn, passes them to a third provider to.........you get the idea) are getting 'credit' for 'doing a lot of work' or 'seeing a lot of patients' because everyone is about eyeballing some 'easy metric' and fraudulently presenting 'stats' as something that they are not. But that comes from the general traits of cowardice and laziness in the upper levels of management.

I may completely misunderstand the BHIP model (or maybe it is being incorrectly implemented here), but we don't need more of that. We need to go back to the majority of MH providers being able and willing to provide courses of therapy to the majority of veterans with the high-frequency (PTSD, dep/anx, SUDS, etc.) problems. Sending someone to someone else (when you have the ability to offer them a course of effective treatment) needs to become a rarity rather than a routine practice.

Edit: I need to clarify that I don't actually disagree fundamentally with the philosophy of the BHIP model, but the problem is the reality of the VA system and the implementation (or lack thereof) of that philosophy. Basically, what I see happening (and it is already happening) is that people are seeing the BHIP position (at least at my facility) as a perfect political stepping stone to climb the promotion ladder (high visibility position, the next new 'hot' thing) which involves very little actual (messy and labor intensive) clinical intervention. You get to be 'the decider' with the BHIP 'badge' having been deputized to make the decisions regarding where vets need to be sent. There is a lot of power in that position in the corrupt system that we have and I see it already being abused and the potential for worse abuse is pretty amazing. They become de facto supervisors (through their roles of being 'deciders' about where (and how many) patients get sent to whom, and why) and will be able to exert a tremendous amount of influence with 'leadership' and get to reward their political allies and punish their political enemies.

I've seen this system fail over the years due to favoritism and disparate treatment. The good providers get overloaded with far more than their share of cases, get burnt out, and then leave/retire/move on. The cycle just repeats itself. We would be far better off--in my opinion--with a much simpler system. How about just trying to give every provider approximately the same number/frequency of intakes of MH cases over the course of a year and then--at the end of the year--meet with their supervisor to review how they did with those cases? How many are still on your caseload? Why or why not? You know, (gasp), REAL clinical supervision. What interventions/models are you using? Are you still dealing with too many 'hangers on' in your caseload? What support/suggestions can your clinical supervisor provide you to help you with that?

But to do that, we'd have to operate more like a healthcare system rather than a public relations firm.

The one thing I would add is that we really need to be able to bill on case complexity like physicians. Recent suicide attempt or psych hospitalization within 6 months? Level 5. Mild neurocognitive disorder with depression, medical issues impacting care, and a family caregiver? Level 4. Mild depression outpatient case? Level 1.

And with that commensurate payment or RVU credit. Otherwise, the tough cases just get the "hot potato" treatment and the easy ones are kept to bolster metrics.

I don't mind the BHIP model because someone does need to do the case and consult management aspects of care. However, as you mentioned, the reality may be that it does not get done properly. The fetish of "productivity" rears its ugly head again. Can we admit that 'increasing productivity' is often just playing stats games? I do it too, but it is just stupid.
 
The one thing I would add is that we really need to be able to bill on case complexity like physicians. Recent suicide attempt or psych hospitalization within 6 months? Level 5. Mild neurocognitive disorder with depression, medical issues impacting care, and a family caregiver? Level 4. Mild depression outpatient case? Level 1.

And with that commensurate payment or RVU credit. Otherwise, the tough cases just get the "hot potato" treatment and the easy ones are kept to bolster metrics.

I don't mind the BHIP model because someone does need to do the case and consult management aspects of care. However, as you mentioned, the reality may be that it does not get done properly. The fetish of "productivity" rears its ugly head again. Can we admit that 'increasing productivity' is often just playing stats games? I do it too, but it is just stupid.
Your BHIP 'providers' (psychologists, social workers) actually do 'case management' vs. 'psychotherapy?'

I guess (as a 'grunt' on the frontlines with absolutely zero experience with this 'layer' of VA management during my career), I'm confused about all of this.

I see a lot of people coding sessions as 'psychotherapy' sessions but, essentially, seeing people very infrequently (once every 1 - 6 months) and--in their chart notes--perhaps referring to concepts/terms such as 'behavioral activation' (e.g., I suggested they get out and do more...or, say, go for a walk) or maybe telling people about 'PTSD Coach' or 'Mindfulness Coach' apps, or doing a 5 min relaxation/breathing exercise and calling it a day.

Would you consider this 'case management' or 'psychotherapy?' Is there even a separate code for 'case management' vs. 'psychotherapy' or do 'case managers' doing 'case management' simply see people less frequently (while still billing under the psychotherapy codes) and provide pseudo-interventions? I honestly don't know. I would think that there would be a separate code (non-psychotherapy code) for 'case management' and that it wouldn't involve therapy--per se--but would include things like suicide/homicide screening/management, helping people get re-scheduled to see treatment providers, make sure their medication prescriptions haven't run out, referrals for other services, etc.

This just seems like such a grey area (from my perspective) at VA. What is 'psychotherapy' vs. what is 'case management?'

I have always said that I would have no problems with management splitting my FTE straight down the middle (say, 0.5 FTE psychotherapy appointments and 0.5 FTE 'case management') but let's just be clear what we're doing and distinguish between these services. I think a big part of clinician burnout is when folks have to see people very infrequently and these are people who aren't really there to engage actively in psychotherapy (self-change efforts) but we have to call it 'psychotherapy,' take symptom outcome measures (and account for these never improving), have to write up 'treatment plans' (for folks who are only nominally engaged in psychotherapy 'treatment'), etc. The other distinguishing feature of 'case management' (vs. psychotherapy) might be that the patient just comes in on an 'as needed' basis (rather than scheduling routine followup appointments) or follow-ups are scheduled extremely infrequently (annually? bi-annually?)?

I just think the VA as a whole needs to do a much better job separating out 'psychotherapy' from 'case management.'
 
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The one thing I would add is that we really need to be able to bill on case complexity like physicians. Recent suicide attempt or psych hospitalization within 6 months? Level 5. Mild neurocognitive disorder with depression, medical issues impacting care, and a family caregiver? Level 4. Mild depression outpatient case? Level 1.

And with that commensurate payment or RVU credit. Otherwise, the tough cases just get the "hot potato" treatment and the easy ones are kept to bolster metrics.

I don't mind the BHIP model because someone does need to do the case and consult management aspects of care. However, as you mentioned, the reality may be that it does not get done properly. The fetish of "productivity" rears its ugly head again. Can we admit that 'increasing productivity' is often just playing stats games? I do it too, but it is just stupid.
RVU's were never even originally intended to measure 'productivity.' I think that at some point I read that in some of the original writings on the concept. Of course, we just flat out ignore that.

Also, I think a much more valid measure of outpatient psychotherapist productivity would be something like:

Number of unique psychotherapy cases seen in a year minus number of those psychotherapy cases referred/transferred to other providers (handing off the cases to others) divided by number of these unique cases still scheduled to see you for future appointments. Of course, there would need to be some reasonable clinical supervisory oversight to ensure that these cases are being properly handled (e.g., that they either (a) experience sx improvement and agree with the therapist to successfully terminate therapy, or (b) they passively drop out of therapy (no-show and/or cancel their way out of therapy) or [extremely rare] (c) they acknowledge the fact that they aren't actually in the market to receive active psychotherapy services.

This checking is important because there are tons of providers who just 'send' their patients (especially their difficult cases (those lacking in engagement, with personality disorders, recent severe SI/HI, etc.) to other providers and 'get credit' for a 'high number of uniques' as a result.

I've shared these thoughts with management but their response is always, 'yeah...but there's no easy way to measure that.'

I'm like...there's no easy way to do a lot of things properly but some things are important to do properly--at least that's my philosophy and I guess that's why I'm not in 'management.'
 
Your BHIP 'providers' (psychologists, social workers) actually do 'case management' vs. 'psychotherapy?'

I guess (as a 'grunt' on the frontlines with absolutely zero experience with this 'layer' of VA management during my career), I'm confused about all of this.

I see a lot of people coding sessions as 'psychotherapy' sessions but, essentially, seeing people very infrequently (once every 1 - 6 months) and--in their chart notes--perhaps referring to concepts/terms such as 'behavioral activation' (e.g., I suggested they get out and do more...or, say, go for a walk) or maybe telling people about 'PTSD Coach' or 'Mindfulness Coach' apps, or doing a 5 min relaxation/breathing exercise and calling it a day.

Would you consider this 'case management' or 'psychotherapy?' Is there even a separate code for 'case management' vs. 'psychotherapy' or do 'case managers' doing 'case management' simply see people less frequently (while still billing under the psychotherapy codes) and provide pseudo-interventions? I honestly don't know. I would think that there would be a separate code (non-psychotherapy code) for 'case management' and that it wouldn't involve therapy--per se--but would include things like suicide/homicide screening/management, helping people get re-scheduled to see treatment providers, make sure their medication prescriptions haven't run out, referrals for other services, etc.

This just seems like such a grey area (from my perspective) at VA. What is 'psychotherapy' vs. what is 'case management?'

I have always said that I would have no problems with management splitting my FTE straight down the middle (say, 0.5 FTE psychotherapy appointments and 0.5 FTE 'case management') but let's just be clear what we're doing and distinguish between these services. I think a big part of clinician burnout is when folks have to see people very infrequently and these are people who aren't really there to engage actively in psychotherapy (self-change efforts) but we have to call it 'psychotherapy,' take symptom outcome measures (and account for these never improving), have to write up 'treatment plans' (for folks who are only nominally engaged in psychotherapy 'treatment'), etc. The other distinguishing feature of 'case management' (vs. psychotherapy) might be that the patient just comes in on an 'as needed' basis (rather than scheduling routine followup appointments) or follow-ups are scheduled extremely infrequently (annually? bi-annually?)?

I just think the VA as a whole needs to do a much better job separating out 'psychotherapy' from 'case management.'

That would be a good idea. However, while there is a case management code, it is not billable and I believe is 0 rvus. So, it boils down to allowing "free" work. Agreed that RVUs are a poor measure of what we are doing. It is the lazy management that causes these problems. Just like how a "teaching" institution does not want anyone teaching too much should it affect clinical productivity. Again, uncounted labor that I essentially got scolded for doing during the pandemic. The focus on "metrics" gets away from actual quality work.
 
That would be a good idea. However, while there is a case management code, it is not billable and I believe is 0 rvus. So, it boils down to allowing "free" work. Agreed that RVUs are a poor measure of what we are doing. It is the lazy management that causes these problems. Just like how a "teaching" institution does not want anyone teaching too much should it affect clinical productivity. Again, uncounted labor that I essentially got scolded for doing during the pandemic. The focus on "metrics" gets away from actual quality work.
Yes, case management (t1016) is 0 wRVUs in 2023 and 2024. I wonder if there is an argument to bill it anyway, so long as it is the accurate code to capture the service. It seems like it could demonstrate to higher-ups how X amount of our time is actually spent doing case management rather than (or in addition to) psychotherapy. I see psychologists bill for psychotherapy and case management together, and in their note document the time spent on each service to keep things kosher.
 
Yes, case management (t1016) is 0 wRVUs in 2023 and 2024. I wonder if there is an argument to bill it anyway, so long as it is the accurate code to capture the service. It seems like it could demonstrate to higher-ups how X amount of our time is actually spent doing case management rather than (or in addition to) psychotherapy. I see psychologists bill for psychotherapy and case management together, and in their note document the time spent on each service to keep things kosher.

You certainly can do this. However, if you manager/leadership is only looking at RVUs and whether you made "the number", it may not matter. With real money on the line now (EDRP and such) not sure many will want to rock the boat and risk losing the benefits.
 
I'm a BHIP psychologist and I feel like at my facility at least it's the opposite of being a relay station, we're the dumping ground for anything the specialty clinics don't want. I have four intakes a week and most are people who should be eligible for our specialty clinics but were rejected and sent to us. For example our PTSD clinic will only treat combat trauma and only if the patient is "ready" for an EBP, our pain clinic psychologists will only take referrals from MDs, our PCMHI currently does not do any individual treatment not even in the short term model it's groups and same day access only, etc. So in BHIP I've got motivating combat trauma patients, treating chronic pain, and PCMHI type stuff like work stress and mild insomnia all waiting 3 months for an intake with me. I can sometimes refer them back to where they should have been in the first place but that's not usually an option given the specialty clinics are so much better at gatekeeping their intakes. So usually it's at best bimonthly sessions with me to make slow or no progress because my caseload is so astronomical or I send them to the wolves in community care.

Oh and if we "touch" a PCMHI patient by doing an intake they can self refer back to outpatient anytime within two years of the last contact and are no longer eligible for any PCMHI services even if the initial complaint that landed them in outpatient was not relevant or is resolved and they subsequently want CBTi or something.

Is it this bad everywhere or am I in a special hell? What VA can I transfer to where I can be the thalamus type of BHIP psychologist?

It sucks because I am a true generalist by intention and training and the BHIP setting should be ideal for me if it was managed better.

This also feels like the right place to vent about a case I just got in BHIP via a referral from our PTSD clinic. So the patient "completed" CPT two weeks ago and got bounced to me for "depression." His PCL when he began his CPT in the PTSD clinic was 62 and his last appointment there it was a 70, it never dipped below 55. So although I don't love the PCL-5 and it appears he did in fact attend 12 sessions of CPT I am doubting if he actually completed anything other than attendence.
 
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I'm a BHIP psychologist and I feel like at my facility at least it's the opposite of being a relay station, we're the dumping ground for anything the specialty clinics don't want. I have four intakes a week and most are people who should be eligible for our specialty clinics but were rejected and sent to us. For example our PTSD clinic will only treat combat trauma and only if the patient is "ready" for an EBP, our pain clinic psychologists will only take referrals from MDs, our PCMHI currently does not do any individual treatment not even in the short term model it's groups and same day access only, etc. So in BHIP I've got motivating combat trauma patients, treating chronic pain, and PCMHI type stuff like work stress and mild insomnia all waiting 3 months for an intake with me. I can sometimes refer them back to where they should have been in the first place but that's not usually an option given the specialty clinics are so much better at gatekeeping their intakes. So usually it's at best bimonthly sessions with me to make slow or no progress because my caseload is so astronomical or I send them to the wolves in community care.

Oh and if we "touch" a PCMHI patient by doing an intake they can self refer back to outpatient anytime within two years of the last contact and are no longer eligible for any PCMHI services even if the initial complaint that landed them in outpatient was not relevant or is resolved and they subsequently want CBTi or something.

Is it this bad everywhere or am I in a special hell? What VA can I transfer to where I can be the thalamus type of BHIP psychologist?

It sucks because I am a true generalist by intention and training and the BHIP setting should be ideal for me if it was managed better.

This also feels like the right place to vent about a case I just got in BHIP via a referral from our PTSD clinic. So the patient "completed" CPT two weeks ago and got bounced to me for "depression." His PCL when he began his CPT in the PTSD clinic was 62 and his last appointment there it was a 70, it never dipped below 55. So although I don't love the PCL-5 and it appears he did in fact attend 12 sessions of CPT I am doubting if he actually completed anything other than attendence.
Definitely the right place to vent.

Sounds like a problematic implementation of the model (maybe even the opposite of what it looks like here).

And there are definitely a lot of protocol 'completers' (nominally) who never really engaged or experienced symptom reduction over the course of treatment (and it always irks me when the providers do not acknowledge this lack of progress in their notes, not even session 12).
 
I'm a BHIP psychologist and I feel like at my facility at least it's the opposite of being a relay station, we're the dumping ground for anything the specialty clinics don't want. I have four intakes a week and most are people who should be eligible for our specialty clinics but were rejected and sent to us. For example our PTSD clinic will only treat combat trauma and only if the patient is "ready" for an EBP, our pain clinic psychologists will only take referrals from MDs, our PCMHI currently does not do any individual treatment not even in the short term model it's groups and same day access only, etc. So in BHIP I've got motivating combat trauma patients, treating chronic pain, and PCMHI type stuff like work stress and mild insomnia all waiting 3 months for an intake with me. I can sometimes refer them back to where they should have been in the first place but that's not usually an option given the specialty clinics are so much better at gatekeeping their intakes. So usually it's at best bimonthly sessions with me to make slow or no progress because my caseload is so astronomical or I send them to the wolves in community care.

Oh and if we "touch" a PCMHI patient by doing an intake they can self refer back to outpatient anytime within two years of the last contact and are no longer eligible for any PCMHI services even if the initial complaint that landed them in outpatient was not relevant or is resolved and they subsequently want CBTi or something.

Is it this bad everywhere or am I in a special hell? What VA can I transfer to where I can be the thalamus type of BHIP psychologist?

It sucks because I am a true generalist by intention and training and the BHIP setting should be ideal for me if it was managed better.

This also feels like the right place to vent about a case I just got in BHIP via a referral from our PTSD clinic. So the patient "completed" CPT two weeks ago and got bounced to me for "depression." His PCL when he began his CPT in the PTSD clinic was 62 and his last appointment there it was a 70, it never dipped below 55. So although I don't love the PCL-5 and it appears he did in fact attend 12 sessions of CPT I am doubting if he actually completed anything other than attendence.

Every VA is its own special hell based on staffing (or lack thereof), who has been there longer and rigged the system in their favor, and thr usual office politics (who is friends with the chief, more psychology vs midlevels, etc. ). Then you realize that is nothing compared to speaking with HR.
 
Definitely the right place to vent.

Sounds like a problematic implementation of the model (maybe even the opposite of what it looks like here).

And there are definitely a lot of protocol 'completers' (nominally) who never really engaged or experienced symptom reduction over the course of treatment (and it always irks me when the providers do not acknowledge this lack of progress in their notes, not even session 12).
It definitely feels problematic. I'm an ECP and have limited exposure to other systems so I didn't even realize what is happening here may be out of step with the model.

I should look into (maybe just to torture myself) how BHIPs are supposed to be implemented. I sort of thought they were supposed to be the MH analog of the PACT but at least at our VA it's basically like a ****ty group private practice where the disciplines are basically saving on overhead by working in the same space but don't really collaborate. But unlike in private practice where at least you have some say over your cases it has the flavor of ****ty community mental health where you get as many cases as possible no matter the fit and you can't ever get rid of them.

I keep hearing we're supposed to get social workers whose whole job is doing MHTC stuff but I'll believe it when I see it.
 
It definitely feels problematic. I'm an ECP and have limited exposure to other systems so I didn't even realize what is happening here may be out of step with the model.

I should look into (maybe just to torture myself) how BHIPs are supposed to be implemented. I sort of thought they were supposed to be the MH analog of the PACT but at least at our VA it's basically like a ****ty group private practice where the disciplines are basically saving on overhead by working in the same space but don't really collaborate. But unlike in private practice where at least you have some say over your cases it has the flavor of ****ty community mental health where you get as many cases as possible no matter the fit and you can't ever get rid of them.

I keep hearing we're supposed to get social workers whose whole job is doing MHTC stuff but I'll believe it when I see it.
At this point in my life, I have trained at and worked at 3 different VAs and interviewed at half a dozen others. The day I hear one service chief say "we are fully staffed", I will fall out of my chair in amazement.
 
Is it this bad everywhere or am I in a special hell? What VA can I transfer to where I can be the thalamus type of BHIP psychologist?
No, it’s not like this everywhere.

Most PCTs are not combat only. Many PCMHIs play more nicely, especially rural PCMHIs which essentially provide BHIP-lite care.

And I don’t think there should technically be a policy (formal or informal) where only MDs can refer for chronic pain but if a mental health provider or pharmacist puts in that consult, it’s auto rejected.

If I had to guess, a root cause could be that the program managers for each of these speciality programs are very good at advocating for their services. So this is good for their providers and also likely metrics but of course comes at the expense of BHIP.

If so, the broader question might be whether your BHIP program manager is either not so good at doing these things, too meek to protest, or doesn’t have the ability to navigate politically.

Worse yet, it’s also quite possible that the mental health chief/ACOS/hospital leadership have decided to ‘sacrifice’ BHIP (because they think it might be a mess anyways, at least when it comes to SAIL, many BHIPs technically are) to support other higher performing clinics in which case, things will likely only get worse in terms of dumping.

Regardless, it might not hurt to look at other VA gigs. There are multiple virtual BHIP gigs on USAJobs now, including one at a Clinical Resource Hub which might be more your liking. Hang in there!
 
No, it’s not like this everywhere.

Most PCTs are not combat only. Many PCMHIs play more nicely, especially rural PCMHIs which essentially provide BHIP-lite care.

And I don’t think there should technically be a policy (formal or informal) where only MDs can refer for chronic pain but if a mental health provider or pharmacist puts in that consult, it’s auto rejected.

If I had to guess, a root cause could be that the program managers for each of these speciality programs are very good at advocating for their services. So this is good for their providers and also likely metrics but of course comes at the expense of BHIP.

If so, the broader question might be whether your BHIP program manager is either not so good at doing these things, too meek to protest, or doesn’t have the ability to navigate politically.

Worse yet, it’s also quite possible that the mental health chief/ACOS/hospital leadership have decided to ‘sacrifice’ BHIP (because they think it might be a mess anyways, at least when it comes to SAIL, many BHIPs technically are) to support other higher performing clinics in which case, things will likely only get worse in terms of dumping.

Regardless, it might not hurt to look at other VA gigs. There are multiple virtual BHIP gigs on USAJobs now, including one at a Clinical Resource Hub which might be more your liking. Hang in there!
This is good context to have, thanks! I actually trained here and rotated in a lot of the different clinics so I think you hit the nail on the head with those program managers are assertive and ours are not. We also suffer I think because our PMs are mostly social workers and mostly new and the other programs have established psychiatrists or psychologists at the helm.

The one exception is I will say that our pain clinic said their shift to accepting only consults from PCPs (I earlier said MDs by mistake) is part of a new national standard for pain clinics that requires PCP gatekeeping. But who knows if that's accurate.

And we've lost about 6 psychologists in the past year to the CRH so it's on my radar but for now I'm an oddball who likes some in person work so I haven't decided if the tradeoff is worth it yet but every day it seems more likely.

It's just frustrating because this would be my dream job in terms of location, schedule, population, environment, labor mapping, everything (pay is even competitive in my area) but the leadership and policies have made it a nightmare
 
I'm a BHIP psychologist and I feel like at my facility at least it's the opposite of being a relay station, we're the dumping ground for anything the specialty clinics don't want. I have four intakes a week and most are people who should be eligible for our specialty clinics but were rejected and sent to us. For example our PTSD clinic will only treat combat trauma and only if the patient is "ready" for an EBP, our pain clinic psychologists will only take referrals from MDs, our PCMHI currently does not do any individual treatment not even in the short term model it's groups and same day access only, etc. So in BHIP I've got motivating combat trauma patients, treating chronic pain, and PCMHI type stuff like work stress and mild insomnia all waiting 3 months for an intake with me. I can sometimes refer them back to where they should have been in the first place but that's not usually an option given the specialty clinics are so much better at gatekeeping their intakes. So usually it's at best bimonthly sessions with me to make slow or no progress because my caseload is so astronomical or I send them to the wolves in community care.

Oh and if we "touch" a PCMHI patient by doing an intake they can self refer back to outpatient anytime within two years of the last contact and are no longer eligible for any PCMHI services even if the initial complaint that landed them in outpatient was not relevant or is resolved and they subsequently want CBTi or something.

Is it this bad everywhere or am I in a special hell? What VA can I transfer to where I can be the thalamus type of BHIP psychologist?

It sucks because I am a true generalist by intention and training and the BHIP setting should be ideal for me if it was managed better.

This also feels like the right place to vent about a case I just got in BHIP via a referral from our PTSD clinic. So the patient "completed" CPT two weeks ago and got bounced to me for "depression." His PCL when he began his CPT in the PTSD clinic was 62 and his last appointment there it was a 70, it never dipped below 55. So although I don't love the PCL-5 and it appears he did in fact attend 12 sessions of CPT I am doubting if he actually completed anything other than attendence.
I'm also BHIP. This is the same as how it is at my facility.
 
I'm a BHIP psychologist and I feel like at my facility at least it's the opposite of being a relay station, we're the dumping ground for anything the specialty clinics don't want. I have four intakes a week and most are people who should be eligible for our specialty clinics but were rejected and sent to us. For example our PTSD clinic will only treat combat trauma and only if the patient is "ready" for an EBP, our pain clinic psychologists will only take referrals from MDs, our PCMHI currently does not do any individual treatment not even in the short term model it's groups and same day access only, etc. So in BHIP I've got motivating combat trauma patients, treating chronic pain, and PCMHI type stuff like work stress and mild insomnia all waiting 3 months for an intake with me. I can sometimes refer them back to where they should have been in the first place but that's not usually an option given the specialty clinics are so much better at gatekeeping their intakes. So usually it's at best bimonthly sessions with me to make slow or no progress because my caseload is so astronomical or I send them to the wolves in community care.

Oh and if we "touch" a PCMHI patient by doing an intake they can self refer back to outpatient anytime within two years of the last contact and are no longer eligible for any PCMHI services even if the initial complaint that landed them in outpatient was not relevant or is resolved and they subsequently want CBTi or something.

Is it this bad everywhere or am I in a special hell? What VA can I transfer to where I can be the thalamus type of BHIP psychologist?

It sucks because I am a true generalist by intention and training and the BHIP setting should be ideal for me if it was managed better.

This also feels like the right place to vent about a case I just got in BHIP via a referral from our PTSD clinic. So the patient "completed" CPT two weeks ago and got bounced to me for "depression." His PCL when he began his CPT in the PTSD clinic was 62 and his last appointment there it was a 70, it never dipped below 55. So although I don't love the PCL-5 and it appears he did in fact attend 12 sessions of CPT I am doubting if he actually completed anything other than attendence.

Yup, there are facilities where specialty clinics are very restrictive and everything gets sent to BHIP. For what it's worth, one VA I was at had the PCT leadership replaced because they pissed off too many non-PCT managers with their restrictiveness.

The national PTSD people are advocating that PTSD can be treated with EBPs in BHIP and don't necessarily need the PCT, but this isn't meant to give the PCT the ability to cherry pick cases, either. I'm half BHIP half PCT, and my PCT role is invoked with the more complex cases (or patients that are insistent on seeing an "expert")

Restricting a PCT to combat only is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous to me. I wonder how the MST Coordinator feels about that.
 
You know how Gmail will alert you when you write "attached" but forget to attach a file? I wish CPRS did that for alerting providers!
That would be great!

But given the aged CPRS infrastructure, we would probably receive that reminder via fax and in 7-10 business days.
 
That would be great!

But given the aged CPRS infrastructure, we would probably receive that reminder via fax and in 7-10 business days.

And it would jam your fax machine due to the volume of pages.
 
Second the CPRSBooster rec. It's awesome! I also use it for all my major note templates (intakes, risk assessments, EBP sessions)
Wow. Thanks for the heads up on this option/program.

The fact that I have to hear about this from an anonymous colleague on an internet message board (rather than from a supervisor or one of the many 'Innovation Champions/Czars' at my own) VA speaks volumes.

This is the first I've ever heard of CPRSBooster
 
Wow. Thanks for the heads up on this option/program.

The fact that I have to hear about this from an anonymous colleague on an internet message board (rather than from a supervisor or one of the many 'Innovation Champions/Czars' at my own) VA speaks volumes.

This is the first I've ever heard of CPRSBooster

Did an email search out of curiosity. Apparently it was put on hold during a roll out in 2022 due to security issues and that is the last I heard about it until this thread. No idea that it was active.
 
Almost all of my work is within the health psych and geropsych world. Majority of my patients are coping with health consequences of an unhealthy lifestyle and aging (I guess that's just sort of the VA population, eh?). A lot of my patients right now are just experiencing one medical issue after another - to the point where they really can't catch a break. For example, I have one patient who needs chemo for the rest of his life, just had eye surgery, but now needs more intensive eye surgery because the VA messed something up and he can't see out of his eye anymore, and just found out that he may need heart surgery. His low mood mostly stems from this sort of endless "sick person" role, the accompanying functional limitations, and anxiety about "what's going to happen next?" My typical approach has been mostly CBT/ACT-based, modified values-based behavioral activation, exploring how this impacts their life, what they'd be doing differently if they weren't sick/coming to the VA for appointments all the time, bolstering coping skills and support network, and focusing on what is within their control. But this just feels like it's been falling flat with a few patients and I'm feeling a bit stuck, particularly with some of my older male veterans, even those who seem like they are actually putting in the work. Wanted to just see what's been successful for you all.
 
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