VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Are the police really necessary? Are they expecting the DEIA materials to offer physical resistance? This is so VA. 'We are sending armed officers to physically remove any pictures of rainbows. Please comply or you will be exterminated. Be sure to be on time for the daily 'Safety Meeting.' We wub you xoxoxoxoxox! Your Friendly VA Admin...kissykissykissy!'

I would like to report witnessing police officers with DEI paraphernalia on VA property. They were carrying pictures of rainbows for God sakes!



I would also like to report a government official engaging in what I can only describe as a DEIA activity publicly. I encourage everyone to report this particular DEIA activity immediately.
 
Last edited:
I am really concerned about potentially losing ability to telework. Not only would this be difficult for me for several reasons, I can see many people leaving over this.
 
I am really concerned about potentially losing ability to telework. Not only would this be difficult for me for several reasons, I can see many people leaving over this.

Pretty sure that's the point of the EO.
 
Pretty sure that's the point of the EO.

The ironic part about this stuff is that it is not the people that they think who will be leaving first. Many VA physicians are furnishing telehealth services and many are dually appointed with other academic medical centers. Those folks will be the first to leave. Then will come the early retirees and the experienced folks that have other options in high demand fields. The everyday paper pushers who need a job will just complain and show up wherever.
 
Pretty sure that's the point of the EO.
What I see playing out is the eventual replacement of doctoral-level psychologists with master's and bachelor's-level staff, pushing 'group therapy' as the cure-all, 'alternative therapies,' service dogs, medical marijuana/gummies, 'McMindfulness,' 'Whole Health,'...everything/everyone is homogenized into a morass of BHIP 'coping skills' groups, DBT-lite groups, etc...basically whatever is popular and sounds good.
The masters/bachelors folks will be more into 'cPTSD' therapies (EMDR/IFS), 30 min appointments vomiting buzzwords, excusing angry outbursts as 'PTSD episodes' (not your fault, not your responsibility), diagnosis via checklists of symptom self-report (because to say 'no' to a PTSD diagnosis would be 're-traumatization' or 'triggering' or cruel), etc. With the relaxation of requirements for 100% s/c for mental health/PTSD most people will ratchet their way up to 100%. Everyone will be 'totally and permanently disabled' yet everyone will also be constantly scheduled for group and pharmacotherapies that somehow never result in reduction of symptoms or improvements in functioning and that have a 50%+ no-show/cancellation rate and somehow it will be all the providers' fault.

Everyone will be happy then and we can all go home.
 
Last edited:
What I see playing out is the eventual replacement of doctoral-level psychologists with master's and bachelor's-level staff, pushing 'group therapy' as the cure-all, 'alternative therapies,' service dogs, medical marijuana/gummies, 'McMindfulness,' 'Whole Health,'...everything/everyone is homogenized into a morass of BHIP 'coping skills' groups, DBT-lite groups, etc...basically whatever is popular and sounds good.
The masters/bachelors folks will be more into 'cPTSD' therapies (EMDR/IFS), 30 min appointments vomiting buzzwords, excusing angry outbursts as 'PTSD episodes' (not your fault, not your responsibility), diagnosis via checklists of symptom self-report (because to say 'no' to a PTSD diagnosis would be 're-traumatization' or 'triggering' or cruel), etc. With the relaxation of requirements for 100% s/c for mental health/PTSD most people will ratchet their way up to 100%. Everyone will be 'totally and permanently disabled' yet everyone will also be constantly scheduled for group and pharmacotherapies that somehow never result in reduction of symptoms or improvements in functioning and that have a 50%+ no-show/cancellation rate and somehow it will be all the providers' fault.

Everyone will be happy then and we can all go home.

I think the bolded will depend on location. There are many early career PsyD grads in most major cities with big student loans that will need to put up with the headaches for a paycheck. There will always be one person that can be suckered into "Chief of Psychology" by the title despite the terribly small pay bump. Maybe a later career person looking to hit their five years prior to retirement age. The problem with VA has always been mid-career and it will just get worse. Maybe if you are shooting for pslf, you can justify 10 years in.

If the covid shift to telework and those pay raises had not come, I was planning on private practice by year 4-5. I just wanted some runway and the VA has no non-compete.
 
Last edited:
this just seems like such a cruel slap in the face to LGBTQ+ and other veterans from marginalized communities (my caseload has a lot of non-US born veterans too)
At least now people can stop pretending this ever had anything to do with "fairness" and was an excuse to tear up even the most miniscule gestures of acceptance.
 
I have been reading about the founding of our country in an attempt to remind myself we have always been better at storytelling than being good people. Today, I'm reading about how one of the Jamestown residents murdered and ate his pregnant wife during the Starving Times. None of my social studies textbooks gave many details about the horrors of Jamestown at all.

This is also the second time we've elected a person who has a history of assault to two non-consecutive terms.

History is fun.
There are a lot of things left out of the history books (and they are actively trying to leave out even more), but I admit that when I found out they LITERALLY ATE THEE NAT TURNER, I was like…*stares unblinkingly-*

I don’t know why that was the line for me but I was definitely shaken.
 
To warn you, the account of what happened to Nat Turner has conflicting accounts. Someone will attempt to derail a conversation and get lost in the weeds. The desecration of his corpse is pretty solid though.

The horrors of what enslavers did is thoroughly documented as well. The DNA of many Black Americans tells a very ugly story.
 
Stephen Colbert Popcorn GIF
 
With the ban of dei, how might this impact internship and postdoctoral training? I believe APA requirements include a diversity component? Hopefully, APPIC and VAPL can figure something out.
 
With the ban of dei, how might this impact internship and postdoctoral training? I believe APA requirements include a diversity component? Hopefully, APPIC and VAPL can figure something out.
From what I've heard, it's not an outright ban on discussing concepts related to diversity, multiculturalism, and other information as related to clinical/patient care. It's specifically a ban on DEI, particularly with respect to hiring practices, but also as relating to training. Which, if I had to hazard a guess, could be interpreted by the powers-that-be as, among other things: anything that implies any group of people is inherently racist.
 
From what I've heard, it's not an outright ban on discussing concepts related to diversity, multiculturalism, and other information as related to clinical/patient care. It's specifically a ban on DEI, particularly with respect to hiring practices, but also as relating to training. Which, if I had to hazard a guess, could be interpreted by the powers-that-be as, among other things: anything that implies any group of people is inherently racist.

The overcorrection to the overcorrection was somewhat inevitable/predictable.
 
Based on all the things I've seen labeled "DEI," it makes sense that some people would be confused. It's interesting that so much effort was made to demonize the concept in such vague ways that almost anything could get caught up in the DEI fray. It reminds me of all that communist talk back in the day.
 
Last edited:
Based on all the things I've seen labeled "DEI," it makes sense that some people would be confused. It's interesting that so much effort was made to demonize the concept in such vague ways that almost anything could get caught up in the DEI fray. It reminds me of all that communist talk back in the day.
By design, sadly.

They do the same thing w trans legislation, book ban legislation, etc. However, they mean for “Religious Freedom” to be VERY specific to ONE point of view, but they’ll never admit it. Go figure….
 
By design, sadly.

They do the same thing w trans legislation, book ban legislation, etc. However, they mean for “Religious Freedom” to be VERY specific to ONE point of view, but they’ll never admit it. Go figure….

Definitely a throwing the baby out with the bathwater situation. Messaging and words matter. Dems suck at this.
 
From what I've heard, it's not an outright ban on discussing concepts related to diversity, multiculturalism, and other information as related to clinical/patient care. It's specifically a ban on DEI, particularly with respect to hiring practices, but also as relating to training. Which, if I had to hazard a guess, could be interpreted by the powers-that-be as, among other things: anything that implies any group of people is inherently racist.
We were kind of hoping at the VA I'm at, that diversity-related things pertaining to training would be safe. Unfortunately, that turned out not to be the case as diversity-aware training committees and diversity didactics for trainees have now been canceled. It's really unfortunate, as so much good work came from those training aspects. I think for me that's been a hard part to watch, and seeing the staff that really put a lot of effort into those components learning they can't offer that to trainees anymore has been hard, as well as events being canceled because of this EO. For example, there was supposed to be an International Holocaust Remembrance Day event that got canceled day of...it made a lot of people upset and worried about what else would/could happen.
 
We were kind of hoping at the VA I'm at, that diversity-related things pertaining to training would be safe. Unfortunately, that turned out not to be the case as diversity-aware training committees and diversity didactics for trainees have now been canceled. It's really unfortunate, as so much good work came from those training aspects. I think for me that's been a hard part to watch, and seeing the staff that really put a lot of effort into those components learning they can't offer that to trainees anymore has been hard, as well as events being canceled because of this EO. For example, there was supposed to be an International Holocaust Remembrance Day event that got canceled day of...it made a lot of people upset and worried about what else would/could happen.
I’m shocked. It looks like anything related to diversity is being removed from federal agencies. This is scary.

Also, I just saw the notice from appic. It looks like the status of many internship programs is up in the air.
 
We were kind of hoping at the VA I'm at, that diversity-related things pertaining to training would be safe. Unfortunately, that turned out not to be the case as diversity-aware training committees and diversity didactics for trainees have now been canceled. It's really unfortunate, as so much good work came from those training aspects. I think for me that's been a hard part to watch, and seeing the staff that really put a lot of effort into those components learning they can't offer that to trainees anymore has been hard, as well as events being canceled because of this EO. For example, there was supposed to be an International Holocaust Remembrance Day event that got canceled day of...it made a lot of people upset and worried about what else would/could happen.
It looks like diversity, equity, and inclusion is part of the APA training requirements. Didactic seminars and other training related activities have to encompass multicultural components. However, this can’t be achieved if there is a ban on DEI activities in the federal government.

I don’t know if APA can make an exception because they would have to remove the requirement for all internship programs including those in the civilian sector. I could see a gradual domino effect in regards to this sudden change. I’m sure there’s a way to meet the diversity component but I don’t know if federal agencies really have much flexibility in this regard?
 
I am really concerned about potentially losing ability to telework. Not only would this be difficult for me for several reasons, I can see many people leaving over this.
I think that’s the intent of revoking telework agreements. I mean federal agencies were able to fill so many positions by including flexibility with regards to telework and scheduling. This is going to result in an exodus soon.
 
So how might this pause on federal grants impact internships within government agencies? I’m concerned about those applying for internship this year. There are many trainees who have only applied to VA, BOP sites. If funding is pulled, what could the implications be?
 
Yup, they want federal employees to quit.

Oblige them. When vets can't get care anymore in the VA, and then go outside the VA to see that most of their specialists don't take their insurance, and those that do won't put up with anywhere near the level of bull**** they used to pull in the VA, maybe they'll think about the consequences of their actions for once.
 
Oblige them. When vets can't get care anymore in the VA, and then go outside the VA to see that most of their specialists don't take their insurance, and those that do won't put up with anywhere near the level of bull**** they used to pull in the VA, maybe they'll think about the consequences of their actions for once.
I find the cognitive dissonance protects them from these kinds of thoughts. The smarter they are, the better they are at ignoring the fact they're the makers of their own misery. It's why we have jobs in the first place.
 
I find the cognitive dissonance protects them from these kinds of thoughts. The smarter they are, the better they are at ignoring the fact they're the makers of their own misery. It's why we have jobs in the first place.

That may be part of it, but I also feel like many people are actually shielded from the consequences of their actions. So, let's stop shielding them, and give them exactly what their actions called for. Otherwise, we just keep repeating the cycle.
 
That may be part of it, but I also feel like many people are actually shielded from the consequences of their actions. So, let's stop shielding them, and give them exactly what their actions called for. Otherwise, we just keep repeating the cycle.
You are more optimistic than me. I see people with nothing cheering on billionaires. Sick and literally dying for the cause. The only glimmer of hope is how we collectively hate insurance companies in the context of US capitalism.
 
You are more optimistic than me. I see people with nothing cheering on billionaires. Sick and literally dying for the cause. The only glimmer of hope is how we collectively hate insurance companies in the context of US capitalism.
Oh, I am not optimistic. I think we will continue to shield people from the worst consequences and we'll just continue to slide. The far right will continue to become emboldened, the left will continue to lack the will and focus to do anything effective, and us moderates will just keep shaking our heads.
 
That may be part of it, but I also feel like many people are actually shielded from the consequences of their actions. So, let's stop shielding them, and give them exactly what their actions called for. Otherwise, we just keep repeating the cycle.
Reality (and the 'natural consequences' that attend her) is a harsh mistress.
 
Oh, I am not optimistic. I think we will continue to shield people from the worst consequences and we'll just continue to slide. The far right will continue to become emboldened, the left will continue to lack the will and focus to do anything effective, and us moderates will just keep shaking our heads.
Unrelated, you might enjoy the Bulwark if you don't follow them. I mostly watch them on YouTube. Tim Miller is the only reason I'm optimistic about politics.
 
Unrelated, you might enjoy the Bulwark if you don't follow them. I mostly watch them on YouTube. Tim Miller is the only reason I'm optimistic about politics.

Been following them for a while now. It's ever harder to find political news sources that aren't pretty far to the left or the right, and they tend to be more reasonable than pretty much anything right leaning out there.
 
Been following them for a while now. It's ever harder to find political news sources that aren't pretty far to the left or the right, and they tend to be more reasonable than pretty much anything right leaning out there.
I have liked the PBS Newshour, Aaron Parnas, and the Sloan Zone.

Sloan is pretty far left, but it feels different because he's Australian.
 
Once politics became obvious, I dropped WaPo, NYT (a few yrs ago), and instead now subscribe to a number of Substacks (e.g. The Breakdown/Mueller She Wrote, The Contrarian), etc. I’ll still read The Atlantic, The Hill, and a few more “mainstream” outlets, but for the most part I’d rather support indie writers & journalists on social media.
 
"We are pleased to inform you that we have been authorized with an exemption to reinstate your job offer and continue with the hiring process,” the VA wrote in an email. “We are excited at the prospect of you joining us here at VA.”

'kissykissykissykissy!!!'
#WEAREALLINTHISTOGETHER


Man...you gotta stand in utter awe of the organization's hubris and lack of awareness. Although the situation was clearly caused by the new administration in the White House, one would expect the email from the VA to at least express a somewhat apologetic/sympathetic/contrite tone for the extreme distress and anxiety caused to the applicants.

This debacle is gonna devastate recruitment efforts for decades to come.
 
Last edited:
"We are pleased to inform you that we have been authorized with an exemption to reinstate your job offer and continue with the hiring process,” the VA wrote in an email. “We are excited at the prospect of you joining us here at VA.”

'kissykissykissykissy!!!'
#WEAREALLINTHISTOGETHER


Man...you gotta stand in utter awe of the organization's hubris and lack of awareness. Although the situation was clearly caused by the new administration in the White House, one would expect the email from the VA to at least express a somewhat apologetic/sympathetic/contrite tone for the extreme distress and anxiety caused to the applicants.

This debacle is gonna devastate recruitment efforts for decades to come.

While I am not defender of Donald Trump, I will say two things:

1. The exact same things happened last year with the budget crisis and people with TJOs and FJOs getting offers rescinded after accepting them.

2. McDonough also had plans to RTO people, though not as extreme as this.

This is the way the government seems to be doing business under any administration now and, frankly, it is offensive to me as both a worker and a citizen. If these are examples of how the government treats people, no wonder corporations feel free to act so immorally.
 
While I am not defender of Donald Trump, I will say two things:

1. The exact same things happened last year with the budget crisis and people with TJOs and FJOs getting offers rescinded after accepting them.

2. McDonough also had plans to RTO people, though not as extreme as this.

This is the way the government seems to be doing business under any administration now and, frankly, it is offensive to me as both a worker and a citizen. If these are examples of how the government treats people, no wonder corporations feel free to act so immorally.

Hey, we're not all bad!
 
I really wish we had access to outside C&Ps so we could know how the heck someone who is SC got diagnosed with PTSD. It's clinically useful information.
 
I really wish we had access to outside C&Ps so we could know how the heck someone who is SC got diagnosed with PTSD. It's clinically useful information.

Oh, I would wager that the way that they are being diagnosed these days would not be all that clinically useful given what I've seen when they've tried to recruit. These are rubber stamps.
 
I really wish we had access to outside C&Ps so we could know how the heck someone who is SC got diagnosed with PTSD. It's clinically useful information.
I can sometimes (rarely) find them in JLV if they were done in other VA locations. However, these days, it's getting rarer and rarer.
 
Top