VA Mental Health Provider Venting / Problem-solving / Peer Support Thread

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I am running on fumes, but celebrating my wins. I have gotten a stream of straight-forward EBP cases where the patients seem engaged and motivated. It's been nice.

Impossible. We all know that combat related PTSD only improves after 10 years of non-directed therapy on slightly cloudy days (not so nice that a veteran feels good and no-shows, not so grey that they feel depressed and also no show). Then the VA cuts off their life line because no one cares about veterans anymore.
 
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Second this. I still did therapy for PTSD as a neuropsych when I was in the VA and this was my experience as well. I hate the self-serving myth that CE/CPT are only for easy cases that the snakeoil people peddle.
Thirded, I don't do CPT/PE but I haven't found complexity to be inimical to psychotherapy succees, except when the complexity is that they also have a Cluster B PD.
Although I do cheat and use chemicals to mess with their brains.
 
Second this. I still did therapy for PTSD as a neuropsych when I was in the VA and this was my experience as well. I hate the self-serving myth that CE/CPT are only for easy cases that the snakeoil people peddle.
Back on internship (during the olden times!), some of my best outcomes were using PE with medically complex and multiple-trauma veterans….likely bc they committed and put in the work, funny how those things help treatment outcomes.
 
Thirded, I don't do CPT/PE but I haven't found complexity to be inimical to psychotherapy succees, except when the complexity is that they also have a Cluster B PD.
Although I do cheat and use chemicals to mess with their brains.
Even in people with co-morbid BPD and PTSD, PE/CPT has been shown to be effective for PTSS, IIRC.
 
It has, yes!

This isn't VA related, but I wish they would come up with a name for sub-clinical PTSD that's shorter than "other specified trauma and stressor-related disorder"
Agreed.

They also need to add two additional disorders to DSM-6.0-ChatGPT:

- Adult Developmental Disorder

and

- Service-Connection Deficit Disorder

though that last one may be more appropriate as a 'V-Code'

And there are some who would say that we should add a "Pseudo-PTSD" option to the trauma- and stressor-related d/o spectrum. I could write the criteria in my sleep.
 
Must be local to your VA because I haven't heard this...can you share more detail?

Well, it is not just local but the news may have only filtered down locally. I don't have more detail. Simply that the AFGE master agreement with the VA dictated annual leave policy among other things (including step and within grade pay increases). Now that the VA no longer recognizes the union, they are revisiting the leave policy for Fiscal year 2026 (which starts Oct 1 2025). This means no one is sure right now if any of the already determined holiday schedule will be honored or not and they are not approving annual leave post 10/1 at the moment (at my hospital anyway). Now that the master agreement is gone, I am not sure who is making the rules (local MCD, OPM, VA central office?). I imagine the will also be true for pay and other things in the master agreement.
 
I'm not looking forward to explaining groypers/the black pill this coming week, but it might keep a couple of folks out of jail.
 
So umm…did anyone else not get paid? Or just me?
Don’t worry, TRUMP has a looooong history of being trustworthy and paying his debts.

*checks notes*

Just kidding, you have a better chance he’ll accidentally tell the truth while lying about something else before he actually does something he promised to do. Promises Made, Promises Kept….really quiet hoping others won’t remember what he actually said bc he doesn’t actually remember.

Morbid jokes aside, I’m sorry you are being negatively impacted by that Traitor and his fellow grifters.
 
Yeah, I got paid. Leadership gave us a heads up that there was a delay because of how some things are processed. The LES came out later than usual too for the same reason.
 
As I'm preparing my neuro postdoc apps, only one site (my current internship) is a VA. I don't want any part of this

I will say that my postdoc site did a great job at shielding trainees from a lot of the nonsense and chaos. Because of our trainee status, the TD had some leeway in how some of the WFH rules and such impacted us. While I absolutely would not want to be staff at a VA at the current moment, I feel like you would still get quality training at most VAs. I think that may significantly depend on how much the MH chief values psych training though.
 
As I'm preparing my neuro postdoc apps, only one site (my current internship) is a VA. I don't want any part of this
Which is sad, because overall, one of the things VA has typically done very well is training. But you can't train if you don't have any providers around to actually do the training.
 
I have a question related to criterion A as it pertains to veterans from you more experienced folks and apologies if this has been discussed before as it likely has but please bear with me:

I am struggling with the age old dilemma of criterion a being an EVENT. However, I have some veterans that report having anxiety/fear of being attacked after being on a deployment in which they never experienced direct combat BUT there were issues with insurgents shooting at our aircraft with guns (kind of as a taunting thing) but they were never in the aircraft. And just always being briefed on how the other side can track your movements in xyz ways, that they hate you, they want you dead, etc.

So despite being on base, just developing a very general feeling of unease and anxiety.

Also, I am not asking about whether to diagnose PTSD or not, or if they also meet other criteria. Only asking if living in this type of environment counts for criterion A, since it could be counted as many event(s) where death or serious injury was threatened?

I also tend to dx PTSD conservatively (as in if everything is trauma because a ****ty thing happened to you that then negatively impacted you and your relationships, functioning, etc then living life is just trauma lol)
 
A couple of thoughts.

It's impossible to have 're-experiencing' symptoms in relation to an event that you never actually 'experienced' (that actually occurred) in real life in the first place. The more the anxiety/distress is about something that 'could have happened' (but didn't), it doesn't make any sense to me to consider this a 'traumatic event/ trauma' in one's past fueling current distress.

There's obviously a continuum and room for nuance (and debate) here. If a veteran served in Iraq in 2008 and was doing daily patrols in an area where there were constant enemy attacks (IED's, snipers, firefights, etc.) but that veteran was just 'lucky' enough never to have actually been shot at, blown up, or injured, I still would say that the veteran was clearly 'exposed to a warzone' sufficient for it to meet Criterion A for development of possible PTSD. However, other situations (to me) clearly don't meet criterion A. Some examples:

1) being stateside (never deployed) during the Vietnam era but being afraid that one would be deployed is not a 'Criterion A'
2) being in the Navy and serving on an aircraft carrier during normal operations in the Mediterranean sea and, at certain points, having to don/doff nuclear/biological/radiological protective gear (as part of routine, universally-experienced, precautionary training/ preparation drills) is not a 'Criterion A' event

There are others, but you get my point. There will ALWAYS be a requirement of clinical judgment (and careful interviewing) around the putative or potentially traumatic event (PTE) and if/how/why the individual experienced it as 'traumatic.' There is a subjective component to this and there always will be. They eliminated Criterion A2 from the DSM-5 (after DSM-IV) because they were largely considering events (originally) that anyone would find traumatic (i.e., canonical traumas like getting shot, getting raped, or seeing someone turn to mist in front of your eyes). However, in cases that are at the borders or fringes of Criterion A, to me, it is absolutely essential for the clinician to interview the patient around the question of what, specifically, did you experience as 'traumatic' about that experience? A technical phrase that is a handy way of stating your doubt is that their presentation/ report of their history and symptoms does not align with known patterns of symptom expression (or etiopathology) of the condition in question or the known 'natural history or etiopathogenesis' of the disorder. Someone claiming nightly nightmares about terrorist attacks that disrupt 90% of their sleep 10 years after being 'exposed' to being deployed to Saudi Arabia for an objectively non-eventful deployment on a large base just...doesn't really make clinical sense as a trauma- and stressor-related disorder. The claimed symptoms are just ridiculously out of proportion to the putative stressor (to me). The more that the putative relationship between the claimed 'stressor' and current symptoms 'strains credulity,' the more likely you're dealing with factors other than the 'traumatic event' causing/fueling those present symptoms and the more you're likely dealing with other factors (e.g., malingering/feigning/response bias, personality disorder traits or conditions, substance use/withdrawal effects, etc.).

Another concern is quite practical. Our trauma-focused therapies (PE/CPT/EMDR) generally require focus on a 'most traumatic event' as part of how they are implemented. If someone is deployed to a large base in Saudi Arabia for three years (but no discrete traumatic event happened to them) but they are claiming that 'the entire deployment' was their 'trauma' because they were in constant fear of something happening (that didn't) how do you handle that as 'the event?' It's too diffuse and if someone is having crippling anxiety, nightmares, hyperarousal, etc. about an event that 'didn't happen' vs. did happen 10 years ago then you're probably less likely dealing with PTSD and more likely dealing with other diagnostic entities or clinical case formulations.

In cases where veterans are presenting with requests to be 'evaluated for PTSD' or they 'think they have PTSD' or 'everyone tells them they have PTSD' and they are reporting 'trauma histories' without clear traumatic events in them...I'd be cautious. Are they pushing 'trauma' as their problem (and PTSD as their diagnosis) or are you (as the clinician interviewing them and getting to know them) seeing a trauma- and stressor-related disorder pattern of symptomatology emerge organically from an exploration of their past events and current expressed patterns of thoughts/emotions/behaviors and symptoms? This is important because, to me, a veteran who clearly has PTSD doesn't have to put a whole lot of effort in to convice me that they have PTSD. If they are simply cooperating with the assessment procedures (chart review, interview, observations, self-report symptom checklists, maybe objective psychological testing), the data from that process are convincing me that PTSD is a real possibility or is the likely best way to conceptualize the case.

When you interview them in detail around their putative PTSD symptoms (endorsed on the PCL-5) by using CAPS-level interview questions...do their responses make sense? Do they even understand the questions? Recently I've been bemused(?) at how frequently I will ask a veteran 'how much' a particular symptom (e.g., intrusive traumatic memories or nightmares or emotional reactivity to cues) "bothers them" or "how much of a problem" the symptom is for them (straight from the CAPS-5) and they either respond with (a) bafflement / confusion / irritation at the question ('what kind of question is that? I don't understand the question') or they (b) respond with how frequent they are claiming to experience the symptom ("all the time...the memories never stop...all day"). You learn a lot from listening to their answers to open-ended questions. Asking someone who actually has PTSD 'how much' their nightmares bother them is not a trick question nor an inappropriate / weird question to ask. Those who respond in that way...are likely not experiencing PTSD and may be experiencing Service-Connection Deficit Disorder instead.

Is there a clear 'texture' and detail to their descriptions of their experience of these symptoms? You'll learn a lot by careful and detailed interviewing around their endorsed re-experiencing and avoidance symptoms. We also tend to forget that we are doing psychological evaluations. This means that a conversation about the meaning of the events (or deployment experiences) is crucial to understanding the nature of the psychopathology that may have developed (hypothetically) in relation to these events or experiences. There is a narrative element here. I see a lot of vets (who don't have PTSD but 'want' to be diagnosed with PTSD) coming in to clinic and simply 'citing traumas' and 'reciting symptoms (or symptom labels).' 'I was traumatized by my deployment to Iraq...I have night terrors, I'm anxious all the time...I have anxiety...I never sleep...I don't leave the house...I have PTSD from it' is the beginning of the interview process...not the end. It's not a process of I show up at a psychologist appointment and say (a) I have a history of potentially-traumatic events and (b) I can recite several labels for PTSD symptoms. It's a conversation. Get to know your client. Get a comprehensive understanding of their psychological history and other contributing factors to their current psychopathological symptoms (e.g., mood disorders, substance use disorders, extreme personality traits, overall adjustment/ maladjustment historically and now, etc.). The clinical picture will either make sense or not make sense and that takes time, data, and clinical hypothesis testing. Have them fill out some cognitive-behavioral self-monitoring forms where they write down disturbing events that occur in between appointments and their specific cognitive/emotional/behavioral responses to these events. What patterns emerge? There are lots of presentations these days of veterans who come in with all sorts of labels that imply that they're really suffering severe psychopathology but this may conflict with my observations of them or the history in their chart (or their occupational and interpersonal functioning). It helps to do psychological testing with the MMPI-2-RF or the PAI to get another source of data rather than the symptom self-report checklists like the PHQ/GAD-7/PCL which are almost universally elevated and practically useless in many cases.
 
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