VA pay

[turkish]

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Has anyone here transitioned out to a VA hospital as a full time VA physician? This topic doesn't seem to fit in any other forum.

What is your "base pay" at the VA? If you left the military after 13 years as a doc, what tier would you come into the VA as?

Thanks for any help!

 

[Gastrapathy]

I looked at it pretty carefully but decided not to take a VA job. Your salary is negotiable based on your experience but you should get paid right at the top of the range published in usajobs. You "buy back" your military years so you start with 13 years seniority towards vacation, pension, etc. there is info on the opm website about that. Vacation maxes at 15 years. The way they handle reserve time is very friendly.

All in all, getting to a reserve 20 plus doing at least 5 at the VA is a pretty good deal. My dream job came open and I couldn't turn it down.

 

[notdeadyet]

Buy back is great value if you are going to take a job at the VA anyway. It doesn't do you many favors in terms of salary since the VA doesn't progress along on a very profitable linear curve.

In other words, the difference in pay between two psychiatrists working the same job at the VA don't vary much by seniority. You don't get a big bump each year (other than via COLA) comparable to what you would in most private industry or state or county jobs.

 

[turkish]

Thanks for the above. One other question is what is base pay versus bonus/market pay? As in, your retirement pension is 1% of your High 3 base pay X years of service. Similar to the military, but 1% of 300k is a bit more than 2.5% of 100,000 (ballpark figure for an O6 at 20-21 yrs).

 

[Gastrapathy]

The major negative on the VA side is that you don't start earning the pension in your mid-40s. When I did the math, VA plus reserves pension (2 late pensions) was equivalent to AD pension when factoring in those extra ~15 years.
It's hard to make getting out at 13 a good financial decision even for high paying specialties.

 

[turkish]

Would the extra $100000 a year along those years plus the pension not come close, I wonder? You're right though. May try switching to the Air Force, but I hear they're worse than the army with admin duties as you move up in rank.

 

[Homunculus]

Would the extra $100000 a year along those years plus the pension not come close, I wonder? You're right though. May try switching to the Air Force, but I hear they're worse than the army with admin duties as you move up in rank.

to me there's the financial balance sheet, and the non financial sheet. you may come out behind in the grand scheme, but at some point as we all age i think we start to get to the "my time is worth something" mindset. same reason i now take almost all nonstop flights, even if they cost more. it's worth it to me. similarly, i've looked at this same issue and come to the conclusion that an improved work environment (from multiple aspects) is "worth" the salary difference. ultimately it's always a crapshoot, but how do you place a dollar value on quality of life? i'll be the first to admit that while money isn't everything it sure makes life easier, but i'm near the point where i think working in a different environment may be a greater value even with decreased end game financial compensation.

would you look at AD air force? you are correct-- i've had several older colleagues (i'm not there yet) get to the point where the AF essentially puts them in a pool of O6's and says "unless you give us a good reason we are sending you to do admin at X AFB." if you think its hard to be clinical as an O6 in the army, talk to some AF O6's. it's rare they can hide out since whatever this manning strategy they use seems to be universal. you can take a similar approach as me and be ok as a terminal O5, but most of the time if you do make O6 in the army the admin ship has typically sailed. sure, they can send you somewhere as a lower level admin or staff but from my observations it's not the default like it is in the AF.

on the flipside, they rarely deploy and have no concept of a BDE surgeon tour. yin/yang i suppose.

we may be in similar situations. i'll be at 14 and may get out or have an "unintentional career." after i get a second deployment out of the way, if i play my cards right i may be able to cruise to 20 (with the inevitability of an operational tour unless i hide in an admin or GME position somewhere). i need to come up with a term for that-- people who haven't downed the kool aid but make it to 20. they exist, and if i make it i'd be proud to be counted among them, lol.

--your friendly neighborhood too many choices and need a crystal ball caveman

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

people who haven't downed the kool aid but make it to 20. they exist, and if i make it i'd be proud to be counted among them, lol.

They do exist. I have 420 days left. I consider myself an accidental colonel. Having the mindset of playing the role but not really being in with both feet
may seem disingenuous to some but it is a self protective mind game for me when asked to do something inane, certainly not prison rape but find your happy place applies.

And yes 100% admin roles are plentiful as you age up in the Air Force. They see nothing wrong with taking the only "insert your critical specialty here" and move them into
a command job. In fact I am sweating that now as if they PCS me before 1 July I will be obligated to do an extra unplanned year of service and possibly lose my dream job.
I have volunteered to do what looks like a sucky job because there are far worse jobs out there.

Back to the VA, I would be willing to transition after retirement but the low pay and bureaucracy would be eerily similar. Not having a business man in charge of my daily workload
would be nice but I realize it would be a bureaucrat or congressman in charge instead.

 

[Helpful Troll]

people who haven't downed the kool aid but make it to 20. they exist, and if i make it i'd be proud to be counted among them, lol.

They do exist. I have 420 days left. I consider myself an accidental colonel. Having the mindset of playing the role but not really being in with both feet
may seem disingenuous to some but it is a self protective mind game for me when asked to do something inane, certainly not prison rape but find your happy place applies.

And yes 100% admin roles are plentiful as you age up in the Air Force. They see nothing wrong with taking the only "insert your critical specialty here" and move them into
a command job. In fact I am sweating that now as if they PCS me before 1 July I will be obligated to do an extra unplanned year of service and possibly lose my dream job.
I have volunteered to do what looks like a sucky job because there are far worse jobs out there.

Back to the VA, I would be willing to transition after retirement but the low pay and bureaucracy would be eerily similar. Not having a business man in charge of my daily workload
would be nice but I realize it would be a bureaucrat or congressman in charge instead.

Didn't they miss their opportunity to PCS you? DoD Instruction 1315.18 Enclosure 3 - You don't have 2 years retainability remaining. http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/131518p.pdf

'a. CONUS-to-CONUS Moves. Two years retainability is required after arrival at the gaining installation for CONUS-to-CONUS moves, except Service members who are assigned from shore duty to sea duty or sea duty to sea duty or who change occupational specialty or skill designator as a result of retraining must have a minimum of 1 year of service retainability.'

 

[turkish]

The major negative on the VA side is that you don't start earning the pension in your mid-40s. When I did the math, VA plus reserves pension (2 late pensions) was equivalent to AD pension when factoring in those extra ~15 years.
It's hard to make getting out at 13 a good financial decision even for high paying specialties.

Can anyone explain further the "VA plus reserves, dual late pensions" idea? I can't find any resources showing this as an option, though as was stated, they make a big deal of being friendly towards time off to drill/other reserves duties.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

Didn't they miss their opportunity to PCS you? DoD Instruction 1315.18 Enclosure 3 - You don't have 2 years retainability remaining. http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/131518p.pdf

'a. CONUS-to-CONUS Moves. Two years retainability is required after arrival at the gaining installation for CONUS-to-CONUS moves, except Service members who are assigned from shore duty to sea duty or sea duty to sea duty or who change occupational specialty or skill designator as a result of retraining must have a minimum of 1 year of service retainability.'

That is helpful. I have seen the Air Force Colonel's group move people anyway and the Army moved my brother and he incurred an extra year. I guess when you make the rules you can break them.

 

[turkish]

So what happens if I get out at 13 years active duty, start a GS job, and vest myself into their retirement plan using my active duty time...and I stay in the Guard until 20 years and retire?

What did Gastrapathy mean by "2 late pensions"?

Thanks for any help/clarity.

 

[Gastrapathy]

After 5 years as a govie, you vest in that pension plan which starts in your 60s. Reserve pension starts at 60. So instead of 1 pension at ~46 (assuming earliest age at accession) you get 2 at 60+. It's a break even proposition.

 

[turkish]

Thanks!