Vanderbilt and Diversity? And a few other things...

[spumoni620]

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Hi everyone,

I'm posting on this forum in the hope that some actual Vandy students (and students who visited & considered Vandy) can weigh in on this question. Basically, I have heard a lot of wonderful things about this school and have just been invited for an interview. I'm incredibly excited but when I did a search of earlier threads i found a lot of people seemed to complain about Vandy's (and Nashville's) lack of diversity.

So my question is...has it improved at all in the past few years? Is Nashville liveable (I've never been there) and is the student body lack of diversity painfully obvious? And if yes, does the teaching/clinical opportunities available make up for the social aspect at all?

And one more question about scholarships: does anyone know the criteria or methodology by which merit scholarships are awarded? Vandy's tuition seems exceedingly steep. 🙁

Thanks so much for helping me understand a good school a little better...

 

[RobbingReality]

It is the country music capital of the world, what else could you want? YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAW

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Heh, I think this is what you're looking for:
http://bret.mc.vanderbilt.edu/diversity/


So which kind of color diversity are you looking for?

 

[Renovar]

I am a VMS4, and I can address some of these questions. What I said on this post reflect only my personal opinion.

First of all, dont be disillusioned. If you come from the west coast, or some other big cities in the east coast, or attended undergraduate schools with good diversity like some good private or public colleges in the Northeast, you will face a little bit of a culture shock. Even though it may appear to rank with some of the highly regarded med schools in the country in terms of academics and competitiveness, it just doesn't have the same diversity, as say, Stanford or Chicago. The university itself has a steep regional tradition of educating caucasian aristocrats from the South, and the med school is no exception. Expect to find lots of ol'boys as your classmates. Although there are some Asians in the class, they really all fit the gunner banana-type ABCs. In my class, there is exactly 2 african americans. In summary, diversity is not a strong point of the school. It has come to my attention that the administration is now more interested in inflating the ranking of the med school that it will only accept people with higher numbers, which I would imagine will only hurt the diversity even further.

Second of all, if you are a politically correct person, and insist that everything in the world must be politically correct, then Vandy wont be a good school for you. A lot of the clinical faculty here are ol'boys - they live in the south all their lives and know nothing but the South. You can figure out the raminification of this yourself.

Scholarship wise, the full ride scholarship is called Canby Robinson scholarship which awards to 5-6 students a year, and a newly found Dean's scholarship to 1 student a year. These are the "poster boys/girls" for the medical school. Statistically speaking, white, christian from ivy league schools or top public schools who are top of their class (ie close to 4.0, 35+MCAT) and have exceptional communication scale (on interview and essays) have the best shot. The scholarships is strategically used on attracting people they thought they will otherwise lose to a top school like Harvard of UCSF. If you fit this mode, then you have a shot, if not, then you can plan on taking out some mass loans and little aid. Vandy wont match aid packages like some rich ivy league med schools will.

Medical education-wise, it's pretty good overall. With the administration changing the grading system to pass fail first year, competition hopefully will be decreased and less stressful. First two years prepares you well for step 1 of the boards where students here have among the best averages in the nation. Just watch out for the ass-kissers in the 3rd year, who will dive their nasal promenience into the nearest chief resident or attending's gluteal cleft at all costs, and avoid them like a plague - and you'll be alright. People here are trained very well for residency, and this strength reflects in the success of people obtaining competitive residencies. I recently have worked with a visiting MS from a state school, and the difference of our clinical skills is quite apparent.

Overall I thought my education here is fairly good. PM me if you have any more specific questions.

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by Renovar
I am a VMS4, and I can address some of these questions. What I said on this post reflect only my personal opinion.

First of all, dont be disillusioned. If you come from the west coast, or some other big cities in the east coast, or attended undergraduate schools with good diversity like some good private or public colleges in the Northeast, you will face a little bit of a culture shock. Even though it may appear to rank with some of the highly regarded med schools in the country in terms of academics and competitiveness, it just doesn't have the same diversity, as say, Stanford or Chicago. The university itself has a steep regional tradition of educating caucasian aristocrats from the South, and the med school is no exception. Expect to find lots of ol'boys as your classmates. Although there are some Asians in the class, they really all fit the gunner banana-type ABCs. In my class, there is exactly 2 african americans. In summary, diversity is not a strong point of the school. It has come to my attention that the administration is now more interested in inflating the ranking of the med school that it will only accept people with higher numbers, which I would imagine will only hurt the diversity even further.

Second of all, if you are a politically correct person, and insist that everything in the world must be politically correct, then Vandy wont be a good school for you. A lot of the clinical faculty here are ol'boys - they live in the south all their lives and know nothing but the South. You can figure out the raminification of this yourself.

Scholarship wise, the full ride scholarship is called Canby Robinson scholarship which awards to 5-6 students a year, and a newly found Dean's scholarship to 1 student a year. These are the "poster boys/girls" for the medical school. Statistically speaking, white, christian from ivy league schools or top public schools who are top of their class (ie close to 4.0, 35+MCAT) and have exceptional communication scale (on interview and essays) have the best shot. The scholarships is strategically used on attracting people they thought they will otherwise lose to a top school like Harvard of UCSF. If you fit this mode, then you have a shot, if not, then you can plan on taking out some mass loans and little aid. Vandy wont match aid packages like some rich ivy league med schools will.

Medical education-wise, it's pretty good overall. With the administration changing the grading system to pass fail first year, competition hopefully will be decreased and less stressful. First two years prepares you well for step 1 of the boards where students here have among the best averages in the nation. Just watch out for the ass-kissers in the 3rd year, who will dive their nasal promenience into the nearest chief resident or attending's gluteal cleft at all costs, and avoid them like a plague - and you'll be alright. People here are trained very well for residency, and this strength reflects in the success of people obtaining competitive residencies. I recently have worked with a visiting MS from a state school, and the difference of our clinical skills is quite apparent.

Overall I thought my education here is fairly good. PM me if you have any more specific questions.

hey,

i'll be heading to vandy this fall. just outta curiosity, what was the average usmle at vandy versus the nat'l average for ur year? any suggestions on which are the good electives to take and which, if any, to stay away from? i'm not sure how the course selection works but how will u be able to know which electives u can take if there's a cap in each class's size and MS IIs,IIIs, and even IVs are allowed to take some of the same courses as MS I's? i.e. priority by seniority? thanks.

 

[efex101]

Spumoni I am not am med student but live in the area, and the above poster nailed it right on. I did research at at Vandy one summer and the diversity is largely lacking, yeah they spout off a lot about increasing it but so far nada. Nashville is a nice city to live in specially if you have a family, there are things to do but forget about the city being culturally diverse. I have applied to Vandy, but being from TN will probably work against me for Vandy hardly accepts any Tennesseans. Good luck.

 

[Retro]

I will be MS1 at Vandy next month and I have arrived in Nashville for over 2 weeks now, and I have to say that I got the same impression about Nashville as Renovar. I am living near the Green Hill area, where expensive gated communities are densely spotted. Every where I go, I saw Mercedes, BMW and Lexus SUVs, and there are occasionally some Black people collecting money for church donations near the area, but they were told to leave by the cops (I agree that they endangering themselves by standing at the busy intersections). My landlord is a typical Southern and she does not believe in such things as affirmative action or diversity and she was very polite; although people are nice in Nashville, it is very different from California. But immediate area around Vandy seemed pretty diverse, i.e. I saw Hispanic, Middle eastern, Southeast Asian and African American people walking about quite often. I was told that within the I-40 loop, it is pretty international but outside of it, it will be typically Southern.
My landlord also calls those rich people "aristocrats", and I am excited about meeting them o'boy aristocrats, they got to show some form of grace to the poor and gravely-indebted people like me. The loan is killing me, i.e. I got nothing from Vandy...

 

[spumoni620]

Thank you guys for your input....a lot to think about...
and efex101, i'm sure you have an interview waiting right around the corner...😉

 

[8744]

Man, you guys have got to quit busting down on the South. Or look at it from my point of view. I go up to some place like Burlington, Vermont and can not believe how far they bend over backwards in the name of "diversity." It seems strange the contortions that a medical school, like UVM, in a overwhelmingly "caucasian" state will go through to put "color" into its program.


Don't bust down on me either. I am from Vermont and am a transplant here in beautiful (but tropical) Louisiana.

Likewise Vanderbilt, I'm sure, which is in a state that is not nearly as ethnically diverse as California.

Diversity is a good thing, but not for its own sake. We certainly don't want "diversity" if it means embracing all ideas as equal. If that were the case we'd let more chiropractors into the hospitals.

And then what most universities mean by "diversity" is the celebration of liberal and leftist ideas and the absolute exclusion of conservative opinions.

The ironic thing is that true diversity at most universities is represented by conservative activists who are the true radicals. The sixties-era radicals have become the establishment.

By the way those: good ol' boys are good people if you get to know them. Just because someone is white, drives a pickup, fishes, hunts, and votes Republican doesn't make him an intolerant fellow. In fact, many of my "redneck" fellow medical students are a durn sight more tolerant of other people then a typical yankee.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Bah, all of those whites are good ol' boys. They are intolerant and ignorant of everything that is not southern. And don't get me started on those asians. Those damn gunner bananas. We want tolerance and diversity! The point of diversity is that we don't stereotype or assume things of people just based on their outer appearance. But I guess your kind will never understand that.

 

[Renovar]

Diversity, in my opinion, is a notion rather than a quota, a figure, a number. If a group is diverse, it means to me that not only is the group diverse in terms of background and color, but also a collective notion of openness in accepting others with different background, from different culture, harbor different but equally plausible beliefs without a sense of rejection or a sense of superiority. I argue (and many scholars, including the supereme court judges of the recent Michigan law school case would concur) that diversity is one of the cornerstones of a truly great academic institution. And one of the surest ways to bring diversity to a class is to enroll a class of students from diverse backgrounds.

With that said, I dont think Vandy med school is HORRIBLE at diversity. I think the school is putting in some sincere efforts in trying to attract a diverse class. I am just saying that comparing the school's student population with those from other top private institutions you will find a lot less racial and background diversity. You are less likely to find hispanics, african americans, non-traditionals, offsprings of refugees, etc etc (ie. those people with really interesting life histories in addition to having good records on paper) and much much more likely to find a typical affluent upper middle class caucasian student from the Southern US.

In my view, the school's efforts to increase diversity are limited to increasing enrollment of african american students and to achieve the right "color" mix. To me, that really is only solving the problem at the tip of the iceberg. The students they tend to admit are awfully homogenious, and some previous applicants who I talked to on interview days (I served as a tour guide for my first 2 years) says that Vandy students, regardless of race/background, are very bland, gunnery types - study science in college, high numbers in terms of grades/test scores, otherwise very few "out of the world" achievers or people from disadvantaged/interesting backgrounds.) This is further complicated by the administration's inability to accept people with slightly lower numbers who have other life experiences that may compensate for their lower numbers, because the admin wants to inflate their published averages so that the med school continues to rise in national rankings. In my personal opinion, the administration's goal of "being top 10 US news ranking school by 2010" is ridiculous, and appears to run in different directions from the call to increase diversity of the school. This flaky slogan may sound catchy at first, but when you think about it, it really only underscores the uncertainty and doubt of the adminstration in the medical school's own image among the leading institutions in this country. Why isn't Cornell, Baylor, the U of Chicago or Mayo (4 very strong med schools who are not happened to rank in the top 10 in US news) crying with their slogan? Dont they want to rank in the top 10? It's because these institutions are firmly entrenched in the history of medicine, and are sure of their place among the leader in the field that they dont need US News to affirm their place. And smart people know that and look beyond rankings. These schools, along with most other top schools, dont need to be so uptight about screening for the applicants' numbers and rather select and enroll a much more diverse class, often with comparably good numbers. With most of these interesting applicants with good numbers having gone to a "better" institution, vandy is forced to into a tough decision of accepting a bland applicant with good numbers, or an "interesting" applicant with lesser numbers. And the administration will choose the former in the interest of inflating their ranking. This is my personal theory attempting to explain why Vandy is less diverse with less interesting students than other comparable institutions.

Bah... I blew enough time typing this post... back to reading... 🙂

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
By the way those: good ol' boys are good people if you get to know them. Just because someone is white, drives a pickup, fishes, hunts, and votes Republican doesn't make him an intolerant fellow. In fact, many of my "redneck" fellow medical students are a durn sight more tolerant of other people then a typical yankee.

Not to be mean, but just imagine this:

Lets say for argument's sake you are a 2nd generation Asian from Northeast, speaks 4 languages fluently, enjoys classical music, have extensive travel experiences and is well read. 3rd year rolls around, you in the OR with a redneck ol'boy attending surgeon who's last 3 generations have not stepped outside of the state of Tennessee, speak with a southern tongue and can't understand 1/2 of what you say (and vice versa) and dont give a damn about you, who you are, what you do, etc. To him, tennessee is the center of the world, and find no need to appreciate and respect people with other backgrounds. There are just no common things to talk about For most of the day in the OR, he ramps up his country music, which you find irritating (and of course, you dont have the guts to tell him to turn it down due to fear of him slamming you on your eval), and when he runs out of questions to pimp you about the ex-lap case, he start pimping you about country music, which you know jack **** about. Wont that be painful?

Typical yankees, although rude, I found are much more cosmopolitan, and thereby have higher acceptance of others with different backgrounds.

My .02.

 

[Retro]

Hey Renovar, just curious: why did Vandy, being a top school, matched so poorly in Dermatology for the last two years? I was told that many didn't match Derm and had to sit out for one year and reapply. I know Derm is ultra-competitive and all, but being a top 15 school, not matching at all is kind of hard to swallow though.

 

[Retro]

And Renovar, this whole hype of Vandy being the med school with the highest student satisfaction rate, is there any truth behind that if students had to deal with o'boy Southern Surgeons who quizzes people on country music? You know, during 2nd weekend, everyone is telling you how great the school is, and sometimes, the real truth is perhaps buried somewhere. I believe, truth is often found behind constructive criticism, which I find you to be the honest about.

 

[spumoni620]

renovar, thanks for your eye-opener post...but is your view the majority? i.e. i keep hearing about how students are so "happy" at vandy...

with so much ambivalence, how does vandy rank so consistently high on those student satisfaction surveys?

 

[RobbingReality]

Now I can't have everybody ripping on tennesseeans or even southerners, so I am going to add a few words to the thread.

I am not the typical southern I have traveled all over the world and all though everywhere I went the those countries seemed to have its fair share of curtious people, it also had their share off jerks. However the reason I love the south so much is problay the same reason you guys hate it. Sure the diversity here is lacking but history is to be blamed for this. The reason why I love the South and TN. is because the lifestyle is so relaxed. You can leave the hustle of the big cities like New York, Los Angeles, and Pittsburgh, and just relax. The people here are usually friendly, Southern Hospitality does still exist. If you are into wildlife you can't find a better place to be because TN and the south in general has more parks than any other geogrpahical area in america.
As far as the good ol boys go, you will have to put up with them no matter where you go , they are everywhere, and they can't be any worst than the gang bangers.

 

[funkless]

Here's a little nudge back toward the original topic, with a nod to the last poster:

As for the typical Southerner: I don't know what that is. I, too, am "world-traveled" and I've found bigots all over, from Knoxville TN to Middletown CT to Port-au-Prince, Haiti. I've also found open-minded, hospitable, and courteous persons all over this blue-green pebble.

As for Nashville: Nashville is a wonderful city. My wife (a Yankee) and I spent a wonderful and romantic honeymoon there and, come to think of it, saw not a single cowboy hat the entire time. I've been there a dozen times, and have had a blast every time without any line-dancing whatsoever. It's diverse, you have to dig to get a good look at the different cultures, which is how it should be, IMO. If you see the entire social palette within a three-hour-tour, then you're probably getting a watered-down, EPCOT-style view of your surroundings.

As for Vandy: if there seems to be a whitewash in the ranks, ask the adcom to see the race report percentages on the 2003 applicants and matriculants. You'll probably find that any discrepancy in the enrollment is reflective of a discrepancy in the applicant demographics. I imagine that that cycle is particularly vicious and difficult to break.

As a Tennessean, I can only speak for Tennesseans at large when I say: "By all means, come live among us, whoever you are. You'll find us surprisingly diverse and surprisingly pleased to meet you."

Of course, we have bigots among us. Of course, you do too. Been to NYC lately? A bigot's buffet! LA? The race riot capital of the country! Chicago? New Haven? Topeka? Bigots are everywhere, and tolerant souls are everywhere, too. Welcome to America.


--Funkless, the original good ol' boy

P.S. And for all of you who would like to hold slavery against the South, just read Lincoln's inaugural address before you do. Face it, white people all over America were responsible for that mess. (For those of you who won't bother, he said that he'd like to resolve the secession "without freeing a single slave," if possible. There's your hero.)

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by Retro
And Renovar, this whole hype of Vandy being the med school with the highest student satisfaction rate, is there any truth behind that if students had to deal with o'boy Southern Surgeons who quizzes people on country music? You know, during 2nd weekend, everyone is telling you how great the school is, and sometimes, the real truth is perhaps buried somewhere. I believe, truth is often found behind constructive criticism, which I find you to be the honest about.

First of all, dont get me wrong. I love my classmates, I felt that the class unity and mutual support here is outstanding. Outside of some anal people, I can't say I have any qualms about anybody in my class, including the ones I appear to trash on the p ost (ie. the typical upper middle class ol'boys).

With that said, I am not blindly in love with the institution. I respect it as my alma mater and it is indeed a good place to train - dont get me wrong. But I came from an undergraduate institution where diversity is a huge plus, where I can find true, unimpaired exchange of ideas, where I can find talended young people from all walks of life with a common interest, and supplement that with a faculty that is receptive to new ideas and respect other point of views, even those that are not their own. To me that's a defining character of a truly great institution. Despite its efforts and propaganda, I dont think the school is quite there yet.

Student satisfaction-wise, I think Vandy is refering to an AAMC survey to graduating medical students done a few years ago and Vandy is on top of the list. I dont think they are lying here. My interpretation of it is that again this goes back to diversity. If you think about it, who do you think will have the easiest time dealing with a primarily-ol'boy faculty? Ol'boy students, of course! They love it when all they have to do in the OR is talk about when the last time they went to the Jackson Brewery and got wasted, or when the last time they went to Dixon county on a hunting/fishing trip, and they dont have to answer any tough pimping questions. Hell, they'll even sing along the country music. And watch them get good evals because those are the people the ol'boy faculty identify with. And if your class is replete with ol'boy students, they have no problem with it at all, hence high satisfaction rate. (ie. "good ol' boys satisfied at the good ol'boy education they've got" type phenomenom.) But if you look beyond the numbers, you will realize that if Vandy has more diversity, the satisfaction rate wont be nearly as high.

Anyways, I dont want to turn this into an anti-vandy thread because it is not my intention. I dont represent the majority of the student body here, but I can assure you that I am not the only one with this type of sentiment.

Regarding a previous poster about derm matches, my take is that there are good years and bad years for each specialty and it should not be taken face value. Last year vandy had great ortho, ENT and urology matches which were tough matches. Many of the top people from that class matched into medicine and did extremely well. Derm didn't have a good year (i think it was 0/1 or 0/2 if I remember correctly), but it did for 2 or 3 years prior to that. A lot of it really depends on what the class interest is, because every class is a bit different. I would not over-interpret it.

 

[Yogi Bear]

for whatever it's worth, vandy's various deparments have been ranked by usnews as: ent is ranked #12, cancer #10, digestive disorder (unranked), opthalmology (unranked), geriatricts (unranked), gynecology #28, heart surgery (unranked), hormonal disorders #18, kideny #11, neuro (unranked), ortho #27, pediatrics (unranked), psychiatry (unranked), rehab (unranked), respiratory disorders (#28), rheumatology (#43), urology #20.

in terms of matchlists, i think vandy's list is a bit misleading/difficult to interpret. i have a feeling that many people evaluate matchlists by two criterias 1) which hospital people match (MGH/ucsf/etc. are tops) or by 2) type of residency program...i've heard some say that the ideal of many students are to be the "road" towards Radiology, Opthalmology, Anesthesiology, and Dermatology. these 4 fields have a pretty standard 9-5 caseload and pay fairly well.

i haven't looked thoroughly through vandy's matchlist, but a lot of students end up matching at vandy and few match at the northeast/ivy schools. this could just be because the majority are from the south and don't want to leave it for a variety of reasons. that doesn't mean that the students don't match well.

 

[promethius]

I have several friends who attend Vandy for undergrad, and they all commented on how preppy and white the university was. I interviewed there early last year, and I agree with that sentiment. Vandy tries to mask the lack of diversity by using their few minorities as tour guides, but you can see right through that veil if you just open your eyes and look around.

If you're interested in a good medical school with a diverse student body, consider my unbiased choice of Pitt Med! 😀 Good luck with you interview at Vandy though. It's a fine medical school I reckon! 😛

If you have any specific questions or concerns about the interview at Vandy, feel free to PM me.

 

[Thewonderer]

As for schools admitting gunners with highest numbers to jack up their rankings, I think that most if not all top 10 schools do that. All of their MCAT and GPA's have gone up over the years. It is not limited to Vandy.

 

[Renovar]

True, but I think the extent Vandy is openly trying to jack their number up is so obvious it isn't funny. Other than Wash U and maybe Columbia, I can hardly think of another place that so openly jacks their numbers.

 

[8744]

Originally posted by Renovar
Not to be mean, but just imagine this:

Lets say for argument's sake you are a 2nd generation Asian from Northeast, speaks 4 languages fluently, enjoys classical music, have extensive travel experiences and is well read. 3rd year rolls around, you in the OR with a redneck ol'boy attending surgeon who's last 3 generations have not stepped outside of the state of Tennessee, speak with a southern tongue and can't understand 1/2 of what you say (and vice versa) and dont give a damn about you, who you are, what you do, etc. To him, tennessee is the center of the world, and find no need to appreciate and respect people with other backgrounds. There are just no common things to talk about For most of the day in the OR, he ramps up his country music, which you find irritating (and of course, you dont have the guts to tell him to turn it down due to fear of him slamming you on your eval), and when he runs out of questions to pimp you about the ex-lap case, he start pimping you about country music, which you know jack **** about. Wont that be painful?

Typical yankees, although rude, I found are much more cosmopolitan, and thereby have higher acceptance of others with different backgrounds.

My .02.

I know you're not being mean. But I am from "Yankeeland." I have found the attitudes and beliefs of your typical member of the "eastern elite" to be every bit as rigid and uncompromising as you suppose our's to be here in the south.

I know folks up in Vermont, for example, who pride themselves on being open-minded but at the same time hold rigidly orthodox views on such things as abortion, gun-control, and school choice. Naturally since their views are left-of-center politically they are "given a pass" and are allowed to believe that they are tolerant or open-minded.

What is the difference, pray tell, between some Klansman here in the south picketing an all black college and a leftist up in Boston trying to pressure his local radio station to take Rush Limbaugh off the air?

I am not about to get into a political discussion here. But you all have your share of "provincial" thinking up there. You just give yourselves airs and act superior about it.

We have one of "your's" here at LSU. He is a surgical resident from Rhode Island, is the very model of a Yankee and is universally detested by all who are unfortunate enough to work with him. And yet he is a smart fellow, very knowledgable and all that. But he lacks all social graces, is obviously fooled by our accents and supposes we are all idiots, and is not willing to understand "how the other half lives." He is certainly not very accepting of our different backgrounds.

He probably thinks he is. But until he moved down here from provincial and non-diverse Rhode island his tolerance was never put to the test.

 

[jkai]

I was down in Nashville this April for the second look weekend. I personally had a great time there - the school knew how to pamper us, but I did notice that the student body there was rather homogeneous. It wasn't just race, but most of the perspective students seemed to have shared very similar backgrounds and interests. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it was very different than the environment that I'm used to. I had a great time meeting them during that weekend, but four years is a long time and I didn't think that I would feel comfortable spending that much time with them. Nevertheless, there are some great people there. Don't make a decision based on what you hear here. You have to see for yourself if this is the right place for you.

If you get accepted, do go to the second visit weekend though. It gives you a much better idea of the school and the people there. I didn't have a good impression of the school at all after the interview, but the second visit completely changed my mind. It almost made me want to go there despite some of my concerns.

I didn't get any merit scholarship, but my need-based aid was quite generous. Although not the best, it certainly was a lot better than most other schools, especially NYU.

I have to admit that Vanderbilt is a wonderful school - I can go on and on about why I like the place. I definitely would've gone there if I hadn't spent the last four years at a very liberal and politically correct college. And plus, persoanlly I just can't imagine spending four years in a state that elects Bill Frist to the Senate.

 

[spumoni620]

jkai, thanks for the input. you're right...many ppl here seem to think vandy is a wasp haven....i'll have to decide for myself in the interview...it can't be much worse than where i went to undergrad tho. 🙂 guess i'm ready for a change...

 

[busticate]

I feel as though I should probably voice an opinion here because I am a white boy from Vandy medical school. Vanderbilt is certainly no haven for the ethnically (or culturally, or even religiously) diverse. I do feel that some of the previous posts have been inaccurate in their portrayal of the attendings and professors at Vandy. Yes, we have some southerners. We are in the south. I suppose that people at Harvard have northerners, as that is equally logical. I have spent many an hour in the OR with southern attendings holding hook and have never once even heard country music being played, have never heard an attending try to convert me towards catholicism, and have noted that most of the attendings are happy either a) teaching or b)ignoring the students (for those of you not yet in school, most attendings fall into one of these two groups). I have been screamed at by my fellow "ol' boys" while being praised by the surgeons of ethnicities other than mine. What I am getting at is that Vandy is not a fraternity of old southern men who only like white males wearing crosses and seersucker suits. The surgeons may speak with an accent, but so does any surgeon in Boston or Michigan. For the most part people are very accepting, and the cultural and ethnical diversity that is present is embraced rather than scorned. It is very difficult to recruit african americans to a predominently white school because the lack of diversity is a turn off, thus propogating more homogeneity. I am very good friends with students from all ethnicities and have the feeling that my class is as tight as any. The school does an incredible job of catering to the students and continues to produce competent, hard working physicians. The teaching is top notch and the hospital is very technologically advanced. Our class scored much higher than the national average on the USMLEI at around 225, and we consistently match our students into very competitive specialties. Each year is different so I think that little can be said about matching 0/2 into derm last year or whatever. It's derm, first of all. Secondly, there are only two students in this series. If you look at things like IM or surgery, most people place in their top 3 or 4, and a significant number of students stay at Vandy for residency because of its incredible hospital and training.

For those of you concerned about diversity, I think that if you are looking for a class with 25% african americans or 25% hispanics, stay away from Vandy because it does not exist here. If you are looking for a school with students who are happy and cohesive, regardless of ethnicity or religion, come to Nashville.

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by busticate
I feel as though I should probably voice an opinion here because I am a white boy from Vandy medical school. Vanderbilt is certainly no haven for the ethnically (or culturally, or even religiously) diverse. I do feel that some of the previous posts have been inaccurate in their portrayal of the attendings and professors at Vandy. Yes, we have some southerners. We are in the south. I suppose that people at Harvard have northerners, as that is equally logical. I have spent many an hour in the OR with southern attendings holding hook and have never once even heard country music being played, have never heard an attending try to convert me towards catholicism, and have noted that most of the attendings are happy either a) teaching or b)ignoring the students (for those of you not yet in school, most attendings fall into one of these two groups). I have been screamed at by my fellow "ol' boys" while being praised by the surgeons of ethnicities other than mine. What I am getting at is that Vandy is not a fraternity of old southern men who only like white males wearing crosses and seersucker suits. The surgeons may speak with an accent, but so does any surgeon in Boston or Michigan. For the most part people are very accepting, and the cultural and ethnical diversity that is present is embraced rather than scorned. It is very difficult to recruit african americans to a predominently white school because the lack of diversity is a turn off, thus propogating more homogeneity. I am very good friends with students from all ethnicities and have the feeling that my class is as tight as any. The school does an incredible job of catering to the students and continues to produce competent, hard working physicians. The teaching is top notch and the hospital is very technologically advanced. Our class scored much higher than the national average on the USMLEI at around 225, and we consistently match our students into very competitive specialties. Each year is different so I think that little can be said about matching 0/2 into derm last year or whatever. It's derm, first of all. Secondly, there are only two students in this series. If you look at things like IM or surgery, most people place in their top 3 or 4, and a significant number of students stay at Vandy for residency because of its incredible hospital and training.

For those of you concerned about diversity, I think that if you are looking for a class with 25% african americans or 25% hispanics, stay away from Vandy because it does not exist here. If you are looking for a school with students who are happy and cohesive, regardless of ethnicity or religion, come to Nashville.

what was vandy's score and the nat'l average for any given year? i keep hearing it scores higher but no expact numbers. one third year said vandy scored a few points above average.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by Yogi Bear
what was vandy's score and the nat'l average for any given year? i keep hearing it scores higher but no expact numbers. one third year said vandy scored a few points above average.

Yuck, "a few points above the mean" is an utterly disgraceful number for a school that heavily base its first 2 years on rote (and boring) lectures and book work, considering Vandy ranks #1 in terms of amount of time a preclinical medical student spend in the lecture hall, and the rote, minutia based examination. (Cathy "Petty"-fer's favorite = what are the 8 components of the nuclear basket? histology question comes to my mind.) They just recently (and reluctantly) changed their schedule around so VMS1s dont have Saturday morning embryo lectures anymore. When I was a VMS1, we all have to scoot our lil' asses in at 7:30 am every saturday mornings in first semester to listen to some embryology bull$hit that I probably forgot about 99% by now. Under this kind of ridiculous training it is almost impossible to not do well. You are basically turn into a memorization machine. The curriculum sure does not prepare you well for 3rd year, but step 1 should be in your bag. I dont know what my year or this past year's average is, but I'd say the class above us averages 230 at least, which ranks among the top averages for any medical school.

 

[droliver]

Originally posted by Renovar
When I was a VMS1, we all have to scoot our lil' asses in at 7:30 am every saturday mornings in first semester to listen to some embryology bull$hit that I probably forgot about 99% by now

This is a view that lacks the perspective of experience I think. Congenital diseases and developmental anatomy will be something you deal with time & time again in both adult and pediatric patients. Failing to recognize this will hinder your understanding of the pathophysiology involved in many patients you might see. I myself have been recently humbled by this having to relearn the whole branchial arch/cleft/groove paths to understand the anatomy of a number of cleft lip/palates & ear deformities I've been working on some 10 years after I had developmental anatomy.

 

[GoodMonkey]

yeah, but saturday morning lectures as an m1? wow.

 

[busticate]

How soon we forget...
1) Saturday classes occur for about 5 weeks when we were learning the embryology of the heart and abdomen. Basically, the school has felt that embryology is important in understanding the makeup of human anatomy (i.e. the reason behind the dermatomal distriubution of the extremities or how fingers are formed). Yes embryo, histo, anatomy, etc... are all designed for memorization. So is medicine. It is hard to philosophize about surgical anatomy, one just sort of needs to know it. While the histology and eight components of some nuclear pore or whatever is probably very low-yield, it is included in schools across the country because they have to test on something. THey can't ask "Does the cell have a nucleus?" and expect people to get it wrong. I personally feel that my first two years of medical school were rigorous enough that I was able to score well on my boards and proceed to feel competent in all areas of my third year as I was asked by patients what their disease process was or what a certain lab value meant. If I had not joined my fellow students in hours of memorization in a library or hours in a classroom, I might not have been able to answer such questions. In all fairness, some people learn well in a classroom setting while others do not. I tend to do well in lecture and better in small groups, but that is not universal. I know members of my class who struggled first two years because of the lectures and are very solid clinical students. I also know people who were AOA first two years and middle of the road as third years. It is hard to make generalizations about the strengths or weaknesses of a school curriculum in general, and even harder to say that the teaching sucks or is too specific at a place like Vandy that is so well liked.
2) Boards. Ah yes, averages. I do not know specific averages, but I have heard we are better than average and the dean's assistant at Vandy said we are in the mid 220's. National average is 215. Failing is 182. we had a few students who almost failed and a few who got >260. That is why it is an average. We probably do well because we accept strong students and place them in a basic science oriented curriculum. We also get time off (approximately 8 weeks total) to take our boards after second year. We have a good mentoring program from the upperclassmen about how to study, and I have shared this with friends from other schools and they have also done well. I am guessing that most other top schools are in the same general range. Attending vandy does not mean that you will score in the 260's or 180's.
3) In general, I would say that Vanderbilt's curriculum is not too far off from most others. We probably do significantly less clinical work than some other school during our first two years, but it also seems like the typical vandy student is pretty outgoing and friendly. Our third year and late second year really lay on the whole dr-pt interaction stuff, and I know of numerous patients who have written the dean about a student they loved. I don't think that our lack of early clinical exposure hurts us because we tend to stray from taking students who do not "communicate" well.
4) Finally, Vanderbilt has its downsides. All schools do. My opinions are just that, opinions, and it seems as though one of my classmates has views that differ from mine. I would personally rather be no place other than Nashville and feel as though my education has been top-notch throughout my four years. I would be very happy to stay here for residency.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by droliver
This is a view that lacks the perspective of experience I think. Congenital diseases and developmental anatomy will be something you deal with time & time again in both adult and pediatric patients. Failing to recognize this will hinder your understanding of the pathophysiology involved in many patients you might see. I myself have been recently humbled by this having to relearn the whole branchial arch/cleft/groove paths to understand the anatomy of a number of cleft lip/palates & ear deformities I've been working on some 10 years after I had developmental anatomy.

Well good for you. Now I feel such a failure as a medical professional for not remembering what makes up the 2nd branchial pouch. That really is going to make a difference in how I treat patients. Really, it will.

To be honest, I never heard of those crap ever again since I took my boards with any attending or residents, or anyone for that matter.

 

[Renovar]

Fair enough, some people like it, some people dont. The above poster obviously like it, I obviously dont. I do not question one has to work hard to do well here, as I was one of them who actually has to. It's the same everywhere. However, your perspectives change, what may be "important" to you in first year, maybe useless as you move on. To me, many of the stuff I learned in first year and thought it's like the most precious information I deem as superfluous information now. The curriculum does a very poor job of emphasizing what's important and what's not. Testing here, especially first year, test esoterica and minutia more than it test understanding and application. Yes, it help you memorize for the boards, but it gives you no perspective for what's important when you walk in 3rd year. Besides, there are programs across the country where people spend a lot less time in lecture and still do as well if not better on it. And yes, before they cancel it for class of 2006, Vandy is the only school where it requires people to go to saturday AM classes as a first year. And before they change it this year, this is only one of 3 top 20 school that has letter grade system.

As for board averages, I dont know the most recent data, and the above poster may be correct regarding most recent data. Vandy used to have vaunted averages, among the top in the nation. Mid 220's... It saddens me to see the last vestige of advantage Vandy student have is slowly disappearing as well.

I hate to sound bitter, but by actually working hard, on the whole, i actually did well in this system. And despite the above poster, there is like NOBODY in my class who would like to stay in Vanderbilt for residency, except those who is going for derm, etc, who will take whatever they can. Admit it, it is no New York or Los Angeles or Boston. Personally I've had enough of red necks.

Ultimately there is no right or wrong, it's how well you fit with the whole scheme of things at a particular med school that's the most important. Everything is so individual that what is "diversity" for one may not be for another. There is no single definition for everyone, so do some research yourself and buyers beware, caveat emptor.

 

[funkless]

An open letter to Renovar:

Well, allow me to be the first to invite you OUT of my beloved Tennessee. Last I checked, I-275 is open.

We really don't need snobbish jerks like you around, if you're not digging it.

Oh, and if you haven't discovered Nashville's cultural diversity, then you probably haven't yet deigned to roll up your sleeves, grab a compass, and travel farther than your own backyard/quad/whatever.


--Funkless

P.S. I'm enjoying a temporary residence in Connecticut. Though it's beautiful here, I have'nt exactly been overwhelmed by the erudition of the populace. As in Tennessee (and Boston, NYC, LA, etc) most people here drive badly and talk funny, and they can't quote Dante, Bellow, or Faulkner. BUT, if you can remove the outsider's chip from your shoulder (even when you feel unwelcome) you just might find they're good ol' boys, too.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by funkless
An open letter to Renovar:

Well, allow me to be the first to invite you OUT of my beloved Tennessee. Last I checked, I-275 is open.

We really don't need snobbish jerks like you around, if you're not digging it.

Oh, and if you haven't discovered Nashville's cultural diversity, then you probably haven't yet deigned to roll up your sleeves, grab a compass, and travel farther than your own backyard/quad/whatever.


--Funkless

P.S. I'm enjoying a temporary residence in Connecticut. Though it's beautiful here, I have'nt exactly been overwhelmed by the erudition of the populace. As in Tennessee (and Boston, NYC, LA, etc) most people here drive badly and talk funny, and they can't quote Dante, Bellow, or Faulkner. BUT, if you can remove the outsider's chip from your shoulder (even when you feel unwelcome) you just might find they're good ol' boys, too.

An Open Reply to Digless:

First of all, I would like to thank you very much for sharing your open letter for your views precisely illustrates the argument I am trying to make regarding diversity and red-neck-ness which represent this city.

Nashville's culture diversity? Please. Obviously you have not opened your eyes in your quasi-existence in Tennessee, or anywhere in the world for this matter, to realize the meaning of the word. You have not open your mind to any other ideas, another culture other than your self-centered arrogance that so typifies your beloved rednecks. I have lived in all areas of this country as well as two other countries, and I can speak 4 languages without blinking an eye, and so far I have not met any chefs in an Indian restaurant here who are actually Indian, or a Chinese restaurant here that actually serve legit Chinese food. Vanderbilt culturally diverse? Try finding a computer on the ENTIRE CAMPUS that supports Sanskirt, or Thai, or Korean, or try to find a copy of the bible in any of the eastern languages from the Vanderbilt's "vaunted" library. Yea, you can call it diverse, but you can also look from the bottom of a well and the sky will look round to you.

If you think being able to quote Dante or Faulkner to be culturally diverse, then I humbly suggest you look around for your closest, sober, non red-neck friend (however difficult that may be) and have him define diversity for ya. If you look down on your feet, you will probably feel you are the center of the universe.

Oh yea, before I forget, I am happy to inform you that I will be out of here next year. I came here on an invitation from Vandy's dean along with scholarship, and have actually done well in this system through my hardwork. Your invitation for me to leave, nor Vandy's IM program director's plead for me to stay, aren't relevant nor necessary. I tell you now I wont rank Vandy for residency and let me assure you that only over my dead body will I stay here any longer than I have to, so I wont be dealing with precisely red necks like you.

By the way, the snobbish jerk comment. Please keep that to yourself. This is a free country. We are as entitled as we are RESPONSIBLE for our thoughts and comments. We might hold different opinions, but no need to point fingers and be mean to each other, heh?

 

[8744]

Originally posted by Renovar
An Open Reply to Digless:

First of all, I would like to thank you very much for sharing your open letter for your views precisely illustrates the argument I am trying to make regarding diversity and red-neck-ness which represent this city.

Nashville's culture diversity? Please. Obviously you have not opened your eyes in your quasi-existence in Tennessee, or anywhere in the world for this matter, to realize the meaning of the word. You have not open your mind to any other ideas, another culture other than your self-centered arrogance that so typifies your beloved rednecks. I have lived in all areas of this country as well as two other countries, and I can speak 4 languages without blinking an eye, and so far I have not met any chefs in an Indian restaurant here who are actually Indian, or a Chinese restaurant here that actually serve legit Chinese food. Vanderbilt culturally diverse? Try finding a computer on the ENTIRE CAMPUS that supports Sanskirt, or Thai, or Korean, or try to find a copy of the bible in any of the eastern languages from the Vanderbilt's "vaunted" library. Yea, you can call it diverse, but you can also look from the bottom of a well and the sky will look round to you.

If you think being able to quote Dante or Faulkner to be culturally diverse, then I humbly suggest you look around for your closest, sober, non red-neck friend (however difficult that may be) and have him define diversity for ya. If you look down on your feet, you will probably feel you are the center of the universe.

Oh yea, and I am happy to inform you that I will be out of here next year. I came here on an invitation from Vandy's dean along with scholarship, and have actually done well in this system through my hardwork. Your invitation for me to leave, nor Vandy's IM program director's plead for me to stay, wont be relevant nor necessary. I tell you now I wont rank Vandy for residency and let me assure you that only over my dead body will I stay here any longer than I have to, so I wont be dealing with precisely red necks like you.

By the way, the snobbish jerk comment. Please keep that to yourself. This is a free country. We are as entitled as we are RESPONSIBLE for our thoughts and comments. We might hold different opinions, but no need to point fingers and be mean to each other, heh?

Easy now. I don't see how a bunch of good old boys are any less diverse then a bunch of efete Yankee snobs. They just approach diversity from different sides.

I gotta tell you, with the exception of well-regulated racial quotas, universities are fairly non-diverse up there in Yankee-land. I mean that there is an obvious and perplexing intellectual heterodoxy up there which brooks no dissent and derides anything other then itself.

I am an alumnus of the University of Vermont, perhaps the most politically correct school in the United States. Up there, a College Republican represents true diversity, mainly because there are so few of him. Heck, he should almost qualify as an endangered species. The majority of the student body, at least the vocal ones, are predictably left-wing, ossified in there out-dated but deceptively named "progressive" views and incapable of accepting any contrary views.

In fact, when I was there the campus activists were pushing hard to enact "hate-speech" regulations which would have effectively silenced any true diversity of opinion.

Oh, but they were trying hard to get recruit minorities to achieve the correct pastel shade for the student body.

 

[8744]

And I gotta say, I'm a little perplexed at why anyone would need a computer that supports Sanskrit. Are you sending email to the Dalai Lama?

I understand he speaks english so it's cool.

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
Easy now. I don't see how a bunch of good old boys are any less diverse then a bunch of efete Yankee snobs. They just approach diversity from different sides.

I gotta tell you, with the exception of well-regulated racial quotas, universities are fairly non-diverse up there in Yankee-land. I mean that there is an obvious and perplexing intellectual heterodoxy up there which brooks no dissent and derides anything other then itself.

I am an alumnus of the University of Vermont, perhaps the most politically correct school in the United States. Up there, a College Republican represents true diversity, mainly because there are so few of him. Heck, he should almost qualify as an endangered species. The majority of the student body, at least the vocal ones, are predictably left-wing, ossified in there out-dated but deceptively named "progressive" views and incapable of accepting any contrary views.

In fact, when I was there the campus activists were pushing hard to enact "hate-speech" regulations which would have effectively silenced any true diversity of opinion.

Oh, but they were trying hard to get recruit minorities to achieve the correct pastel shade for the student body.

America is dubbed as the cultural melting pot for a good reason. It is a country of heterogenicity and differing ideas, and this very heterogenicity plays in no small part of its success. For most part, most Americans accept this idea and to certain degree, accept this as a fact and treat others with respect despite their differing religion, belief, political affliation or color. To embrace diversity is to embrace these differences, to the willing to accept difference as equal and not as an inferior or an afterthought.

And by the way, Dalai speaks Hindi. He may or may not have knowledge of Sanskirt but I am not aware of it as far as I know. Sanskirt is mostly a language of antiquity now reserved for scholars to study old Indian literature, the same way latin is used in relation to modern European languages. My friend who is a language buff sometimes is curious about certain Hindi-Sanskirt translation and try to look those things up on the web all the time, and he would get frustrated because of the lack of support.

PS: I have made my points and I believe my voice is amply heard. I think it's time for me to sign off.

 

[uclacrewdude]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
What is the difference, pray tell, between some Klansman here in the south picketing an all black college and a leftist up in Boston trying to pressure his local radio station to take Rush Limbaugh off the air?

The difference is at least Boston isn't a haven for the Klan!

 

[8744]

Originally posted by uclacrewdude
The difference is at least Boston isn't a haven for the Klan!

Just an aside here, but the Klan was always more virulent in the North in places like Indiana then it ever was down here.

Additionally, the Klan is definently a "white trash" orginization here in the South. Heck, the Imperial Wizard of Louisiana lives in a ratty trailer in Choudrant.

"Culture Bigots," on the other hand, up in New England are fairly mainstream and respected members of society. Hell, many of them teach in your finest universities.

That's the difference. Our bigots are marginalized, your's are exalted.

 

[8744]

Originally posted by Renovar
America is dubbed as the cultural melting pot for a good reason. It is a country of heterogenicity and differing ideas, and this very heterogenicity plays in no small part of its success. For most part, most Americans accept this idea and to certain degree, accept this as a fact and treat others with respect despite their differing religion, belief, political affliation or color. To embrace diversity is to embrace these differences, to the willing to accept difference as equal and not as an inferior or an afterthought.

And by the way, Dalai speaks Hindi. He may or may not have knowledge of Sanskirt but I am not aware of it as far as I know. Sanskirt is mostly a language of antiquity now reserved for scholars to study old Indian literature, the same way latin is used in relation to modern European languages. My friend who is a language buff sometimes is curious about certain Hindi-Sanskirt translation and try to look those things up on the web all the time, and he would get frustrated because of the lack of support.

PS: I have made my points and I believe my voice is amply heard. I think it's time for me to sign off.

You seem to be setting the bar for "diversity" pretty high. I think we can manage the part that involves real Chinese people cooking our Chinese food but we're going to have a tough time generating enthusiasm for a dead Indian language of antiquity.

My condolences to your friend. There is no agony quite like being unable to find the correct conjugation of a Sanskrit verb.

 

[busticate]

I apologize for my classmate's take on Vanderbilt. It is not one that most of the students share (remember, we are #1 in student satisfaction). I would like to say that I am a northerner from around many of those beloved big cities of which you speak so highly. They suck. Trust me. Nashville has quite a broad and storied history and, as such, has a wide array of people from different backgrounds living within its limits. We do not have computers that support sanskrit. My cousin teaches Sanskrit at Harvard and their computers also don't support Sanskrit, so apparently Harvard sucks too. Nashville, like msot cities, is what you make of it. It has >1million people and offers what most cities of its size have to offer. It has no MOMA or sears tower. On the other hand it does not have the traffic of NY or Chicago. As for the residency thing, approximately 15 students stayed last year for IM at Vandy, not because they have to but because they wanted to. I am also looking hard at Vandy for my residency (which is not in IM), although I probably could look to places in those big cities you praise so highly. I don't want to because A) their programs are not as good and B)I don't feel like dropping 500K for a 2 bedroom apartment in Manhattan. So y'all come down to Nashville. And if you don't like it, sorry.

 

[spumoni620]

hmm...i just returned from vandy and granted i haven't spent 4 years there, but i do live in a very southern town ...nd i have to say, i LOVED the city and its people. the 'diversity' thing i think is blown a little out of proportion...after all it's not necessarily the color of your skin but more of how you think. the students i met seemed genuinely happy and open-minded, which is really all you can ask in an ideal student body. the professors were truly intelligent and seemed caring and compassionate...overall, i know i'm in no position to judge but if i did get an acceptance at vandy, lack of diversity/nashville wouldn't be an obstacle in my deciding to attend.

p.s. sanskrit isn't exactly a "dead language of antiquity"; it's comparable to hebrew/latin in its use and is still used quite heavily in india and elsewhere. that said, i know lots of computers that support hindi script, and hindi and sanskrit have the exact same alphabet. sooo...it seems strange that someone would be able to download hindi but not sanskrit at vandy (why would you need sanskrit or hindi anyway in medical school??)
and even in ny/san fran/other cosmopolitan cities, do chinese chefs really cook all the chinese food? and actually, some of the best indian food where i live is cooked up by hispanic chefs.

okay, enough rambling... 🙂

 

[Dr. Xavier]

The Klan sucks a$$, but red necks are cool as long as they're not bigots, but how likely is that.

 

[funkless]

Just my observations:


1. Rednecks aren't so cool. On the other hand, good ol' boys, by definition, are most affable and, in my experience, are usually far too laid back to give a rat's ass what color anyone is.

2. The KKK is NOT currently a major contingent in the South, or anywhere. Personally, I lived in rural, suburban, and urban TN for 24 years and never met ANYONE claiming membership. Of course, I did meet my share of bigots in the South. But I've met quite a few here in Connecticut, too. Wherever they may be, they're not numerous--it just seems that way because they're loud and obnoxious.

3. One thing I'm certain of: White trash is EVERYWHERE. (Except the SDN!) Look the mullets! Wraparound Oakleys and denim shorts all around you! White trash is everywhere!

😀

This topic is SO tired. If anyone else has anything NEW to add to this thread, can we get it out in the open? Otherwise, this thread could use some sleep.

And with that, (bump). Oh, well.

--Funkless

 

[Dr. Xavier]

Trailer trash is cool too, those are the only girls that let me get some.

 

[unregistered]

vanderbilt seemed like an good school, but nashville seemed to really suck if you're from a more cosmopolitan city such as LA or NY. you just won't have as many things to do for fun, and so the students end up studying and hanging out with each other more (at least that was my take), and since the students were cool, i can see how the develop pride in their school and perhaps in the us vs them (the rest of nashville) attitude.

but really, med school is more about work than play so it shouldn't matter that much

 

[Thewonderer]

Originally posted by unregistered
since the students were cool

Not too be picky, there tons of gunners at top med schools. Just look at the latest GPA and MCAT in the US News and World Report. Haven't you notice that both numbers have gone up since the late-90's even though acceptance rate has actually increased in that time span from 33% to around 45%?

 

[me109cito]

Originally posted by Renovar
Diversity, in my opinion, is a notion rather than a quota, a figure, a number. If a group is diverse, it means to me that not only is the group diverse in terms of background and color, but also a collective notion of openness in accepting others with different background, from different culture, harbor different but equally plausible beliefs without a sense of rejection or a sense of superiority. I argue (and many scholars, including the supereme court judges of the recent Michigan law school case would concur) that diversity is one of the cornerstones of a truly great academic institution. And one of the surest ways to bring diversity to a class is to enroll a class of students from diverse backgrounds.

With that said, I dont think Vandy med school is HORRIBLE at diversity. I think the school is putting in some sincere efforts in trying to attract a diverse class. I am just saying that comparing the school's student population with those from other top private institutions you will find a lot less racial and background diversity. You are less likely to find hispanics, african americans, non-traditionals, offsprings of refugees, etc etc (ie. those people with really interesting life histories in addition to having good records on paper) and much much more likely to find a typical affluent upper middle class caucasian student from the Southern US.

In my view, the school's efforts to increase diversity are limited to increasing enrollment of african american students and to achieve the right "color" mix. To me, that really is only solving the problem at the tip of the iceberg. The students they tend to admit are awfully homogenious, and some previous applicants who I talked to on interview days (I served as a tour guide for my first 2 years) says that Vandy students, regardless of race/background, are very bland, gunnery types - study science in college, high numbers in terms of grades/test scores, otherwise very few "out of the world" achievers or people from disadvantaged/interesting backgrounds.) This is further complicated by the administration's inability to accept people with slightly lower numbers who have other life experiences that may compensate for their lower numbers, because the admin wants to inflate their published averages so that the med school continues to rise in national rankings. In my personal opinion, the administration's goal of "being top 10 US news ranking school by 2010" is ridiculous, and appears to run in different directions from the call to increase diversity of the school. This flaky slogan may sound catchy at first, but when you think about it, it really only underscores the uncertainty and doubt of the adminstration in the medical school's own image among the leading institutions in this country. Why isn't Cornell, Baylor, the U of Chicago or Mayo (4 very strong med schools who are not happened to rank in the top 10 in US news) crying with their slogan? Dont they want to rank in the top 10? It's because these institutions are firmly entrenched in the history of medicine, and are sure of their place among the leader in the field that they dont need US News to affirm their place. And smart people know that and look beyond rankings. These schools, along with most other top schools, dont need to be so uptight about screening for the applicants' numbers and rather select and enroll a much more diverse class, often with comparably good numbers. With most of these interesting applicants with good numbers having gone to a "better" institution, vandy is forced to into a tough decision of accepting a bland applicant with good numbers, or an "interesting" applicant with lesser numbers. And the administration will choose the former in the interest of inflating their ranking. This is my personal theory attempting to explain why Vandy is less diverse with less interesting students than other comparable institutions.

Bah... I blew enough time typing this post... back to reading... 🙂

The medical school that is sure of its place in medicine and accepts people with interesting backgrounds without sacrificing academics is the UW in seattle.