Vanderbilt vs BU

[cvspopcorn]

Hi everyone! I've been fortunate enough to be accepted to a few places, and I think for me ultimately it's going to come down to Vanderbilt vs BU (unless I get extremely lucky + get off the waitlist at my top choice haha!). I've lived in Boston all my life, and my family and community I have in the city are one of the best parts of my life. At the same time, I feel like for my future career, Vandy might offer the better opportunities. I'd say I'm 50/50 at the moment, and would love to know what you guys think! I should also mention that as of now, I'm hoping to eventually match / stay in the Northeast, but I don't know where life will take me in four years of course, and that might change. I would love to know what you guys think!

Vandy (would graduate w ~200k in debt)
Pros:

• Prestige / ranking - especially because I'm interested in a career in academic medicine.
• P/F clerkships!
• More opportunities for interesting research; seems to have really strong mentorship as well.
• Stronger match list.
• School seems to focus a lot more on student wellbeing (this is at least the impression I got; current students, please feel free to weigh in if you feel like this is true / isn't)

Cons:

• More expensive (~$150k more)
• Farther from home - I'm worried this will affect my mental wellbeing negatively as my family and friends are such a big part of my support system (and also I'm kind of sad I'm never going to live at home again, my parents aren't getting any younger, etc., etc.)
• I've never been to Nashville (planning on going for Second Look though!) but it doesn't seem like a city I would love (vs I love love Boston)

BU (would graduate with ~50k in debt, if I live at home)
Pros:

• Close to my family + support system <3
• Could live at home (wouldn't have to rent; would as a result be significantly less expensive)
• Social justice oriented; would give me exposure to a wide range of patients.

Cons:

• Lower ranked; don't want it to hold me back come residency / a career in academic medicine.
• Graded clerkships 🙁
• Still relatively new implementing their systems-based curriculum.
• Mentorship / research opportunities didn't seem as robust (though perhaps offset by being in Boston + being able to potentially work on projects with other hospitals around the city?)

Thank you so much in advance 🙂

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[AstroSidekick]

Tough call, but I get the sense you aren’t afraid of a new adventure. I would pick Vandy because it has a much stronger national reputation and because you won’t be competing with other schools in the area for clinical exposure/research projects. Additionally, the better match list, P/F curriculum, and the emphasis on student wellbeing are critical components that Vandy offers and BU doesn’t. Creating that research CV will be critical for a career in academic medicine and it sounds like you like the projects at Vandy more.

However, Boston is a fantastic city, and I get why you love it. If you did ultimately pick BU, living in an apartment with classmates will be better for you socially than living at home. It would be more loans but it would only benefit you. Also, I have been getting a lot of advice from residents and attendings to not worry about the cost of attendance differences. As an academic physician, you would easily be eligible for PSLF, making the COA difference not something to worry about.

Think about it this way, if they cost the same, which school would you choose? I’m guessing Vandy.

The Vandy second look day will definitely help you determine if you are a good fit the school, the student cohort, and location! Ask students there what mental health resources they have available to them in case being far from home does impact you negatively.

Congratulations and good luck! 🍀

 

[deleted1065184]

This is tough, don't think you'd be wrong either way. Not sure what you're planning on matching in but Vandy def has more research opportunities than BU, but it won't functionally matter much unless you're planning on doing a ton of research. But BU being in the Northeast offers a geographical advantage for matching. That is a pretty steep price difference, but as somebody in the middle of clerkships at a pass/fail clerkship school, I must say that it is absolutely amazing.

Disclaimer, I'm biased. But I think Nashville is an amazing city. I'm so curious to see what your thoughts are once you come back from second-look. While you're there, make sure you stop by Prince's (*not* Hatti B.'s) for hot chicken lol

You really will have to decide how heavily you value P/F, wellbeing focus, and research/prestige vs saving $150k, social justice focus, and proximity to support system/ideal matching region.

I can't say what I think you should do, but I'd say that *I* would probably choose BU if I were in your shoes...with you being from Boston, having support system there, wanting to match in Northeast, and being able to save $150k. BU doesn't have the prestige of Vandy but it's still very well respected in medicine.

Good luck to you, and please update us after you visit Nashville!

 

[PuzzlesMD]

I would say Vandy's prestige can help offset the geographical advantage of matching, especially as Northeast/Boston programs would still be interested in you because of your strong ties to the area so by going to Vandy you are getting twice the geographical advantage (near Vandy and near Boston).

Also since you are interested in academic medicine, prestige will definitely be a factor that will boost your career prospects so Vandy wins that race. Cost-wise, I agree with AstroSidekick that PSLF won't be heard to achieve given your career choices, making the cost change matter a lot less.

 

[cvspopcorn]

Thank you everyone! I guess deep down I'm worried about the cost, ultimately (especially in case I decide to change my mind re: academic medicine) and being with my family. But you've given me a lot of strong points to think about. I'm excited to visit Nashville and see what I think, maybe I'll end up really liking the city!

 

[Jimmy McGill]

Thank you everyone! I guess deep down I'm worried about the cost, ultimately (especially in case I decide to change my mind re: academic medicine) and being with my family. But you've given me a lot of strong points to think about. I'm excited to visit Nashville and see what I think, maybe I'll end up really liking the city!

You can’t go wrong, but personally I’d rather be around my family and friends for 4 years even if hypothetically my career suffered. People make life worth living. I’d choose BU if I were you, but whatever you choose don’t look back 😃

 

[Arsartium]

Congrats on choices OP.

You’ll get to where you want career-wise from either institution. Vanderbilt doesn’t have any more research opportunities than BU, especially given the wider Boston research ecosystem.

P/F clerkship are huge. Everyone hopes they can get honors on every clerkship; few people do. Vanderbilt has enough of a reputation that P/F clerkships don’t harm students when it comes to matching either.

Re: proximity to family/support system. Only you know the value this holds. Direct, affordable flights between Nashville and Boston. People are often surprised to learn that being close with family and friends doesn’t have to end because of geographic distance. Phone calls, FaceTime, and Zoom are all ways you stay connected. Of course, that calculus can change if you have children to care for.

The growth that comes with living in a new place away from all you know cannot be overstated. That said, it’s okay stay with what’s comfortable. This may be the last time you have a true choice in location during your career for while depending on future specialty.

Good luck.

 

[deleted1065184]

Vanderbilt doesn’t have any more research opportunities than BU, especially given the wider Boston research ecosystem.

While I don't think it the the difference in research opportunities matters much for most medical students, your statement is objectively incorrect.

Not only is it very widely accepted in the research space that Vandy has a much wider variety of research opportunities than BU, in 2022 Vandy Med obtained $483M in NIH funding fompared to BU Med's $124M...that's almost 4 times more.

The pattern is also similar for total R&D (although NIH funding is the bulk of all research funding at medical centers, so numbers from it alone suffice). Could also find studies about publications and citations, but that's not necessary. Vandy is just in a different league than BU when it comes to research, period. Just wanted to clear that up.

And BU being in Boston does not make up for the gulf in research prowess. Having research opportunities in your city is not the same as having them at your institution. BU isn't like Cornell, which has very strong alliances with Rockefeller and MSK (TRI-I) that significantly boost its research.

 

[Arsartium]

While I don't think it the the difference in research opportunities matters much for most medical students, your statement is objectively incorrect.

Not only is it very widely accepted in the research space that Vandy has a much wider variety of research opportunities than BU, in 2022 Vandy Med obtained $483M in NIH funding fompared to BU Med's $124M...that's almost 4 times more.

The pattern is also similar for total R&D (although NIH funding is the bulk of all research funding at medical centers, so numbers from it alone suffice). Could also find studies about publications and citations, but that's not necessary. Vandy is just in a different league than BU when it comes to research, period. Just wanted to clear that up.

And BU being in Boston does not make up for the gulf in research prowess. Having research opportunities in your city is not the same as having them at your institution. BU isn't like Cornell, which has very strong alliances with Rockefeller and MSK (TRI-I) that significantly boost its research.

You're right; I was speaking more to the threshold effect - beyond a certain level of research it doesn't really matter for a medical student, especially MD only. More useful would be looking at research opportunity in a specific field of interest (e.g. cancer immuno-metabolism). BU is doing research no one is doing at Vandy and vice versa.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say different "leagues" of research are context-dependent and open to interpretation. We're not discussing an order of magnitude here.

Was in the Boston research ecosystem for the better part of a decade. BU medical students are almost just as likely to do extramural as intramural research. Take it from a student who did research at BU, Harvard, MIT, and BWH; it's not that hard. However, each institution does come with its own unique red tape.

TL DR Rest assured OP, BU is not holding you back in research.

 

[pierty]

While I don't think it the the difference in research opportunities matters much for most medical students, your statement is objectively incorrect.

Not only is it very widely accepted in the research space that Vandy has a much wider variety of research opportunities than BU, in 2022 Vandy Med obtained $483M in NIH funding fompared to BU Med's $124M...that's almost 4 times more.

The pattern is also similar for total R&D (although NIH funding is the bulk of all research funding at medical centers, so numbers from it alone suffice). Could also find studies about publications and citations, but that's not necessary. Vandy is just in a different league than BU when it comes to research, period. Just wanted to clear that up.

And BU being in Boston does not make up for the gulf in research prowess. Having research opportunities in your city is not the same as having them at your institution. BU isn't like Cornell, which has very strong alliances with Rockefeller and MSK (TRI-I) that significantly boost its research.

I'm surprised to hear you tooting this horn. I understand there was a (light) challenge to your comment, but still a bit surprising the change in heart.

The focus on research and prestige tends to be overblown, especially for medical students. Both are great programs, from many different angles it seems like you (and your pockets) would be happier at BU.

I'm not sure whether you truly know if you want to do academic medicine before finishing your degree, let alone starting it (and your opinion might yet still change in residency). Vanderbilt is a great program, and growing in a new environment can be a very positive experience. It can also be very difficult, in an already trying time.

Go where you think you will be happiest, and don't look back. If you believe you made the right decision, then you did.

 

[deleted1065184]

You're right; I was speaking more to the threshold effect - beyond a certain level of research it doesn't really matter for a medical student, especially MD only. More useful would be looking at research opportunity in a specific field of interest (e.g. cancer immuno-metabolism). BU is doing research no one is doing at Vandy and vice versa.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say different "leagues" of research are context-dependent and open to interpretation. We're not discussing an order of magnitude here.

Was in the Boston research ecosystem for the better part of a decade. BU medical students are almost just as likely to do extramural as intramural research. Take it from a student who did research at BU, Harvard, MIT, and BWH; it's not that hard. However, each institution does come with its own unique red tape.

TL DR Rest assured OP, BU is not holding you back in research.

In complete agreement that it won't really matter for most med students, but I do think it's necessary to highlight the fact that there is a significance different in overall research between the two institutions. I'm sure there is a field or two stronger at BU, but the overwhelming majority will be much stronger at Vandy.

And you're right, leagues are context/field dependent to some degree...but you'll find that when you get to a certain level of funding/research activity, institutions are stronger across the board. So from this perspective, I'd say Vandy is in a different league...we can use the term cluster if you'd prefer lol

We don't functionally disagree tho, I also agree that BU will offer more than enough opportunities for OP. Just wanted to make the distinction for others reading this now or in the future who may care a lot about research.

 

[deleted1065184]

I'm surprised to hear you tooting this horn. I understand there was a (light) challenge to your comment, but still a bit surprising the change in heart.

The focus on research and prestige tends to be overblown, especially for medical students. Both are great programs, from many different angles it seems like you (and your pockets) would be happier at BU.

I'm not sure whether you truly know if you want to do academic medicine before finishing your degree, let alone starting it (and your opinion might yet still change in residency). Vanderbilt is a great program, and growing in a new environment can be a very positive experience. It can also be very difficult, in an already trying time.

Go where you think you will be happiest, and don't look back. If you believe you made the right decision, then you did.

No change in heart from me. Said up front that Vandy has more research opportunities but it likely won't matter for OP, and that I'd probably choose BU if I were OP. Neither of those changed.

Can def see how my response to Arsartium may seem a bit over the top, but I know how SDN can get and I just prefer to lead with numbers if somebody disagrees with something I've said.

I also think it's helpful for OP to be informed about research opportunity differences just in case they're planning on doing a gap year or something.