Vanderbilt ($) vs Yale ($$$)

[TotalMHCmismatch]

Short story: Got accepted to both, loved both. Yale is full price, Vandy is about half price (incl. cost of living).

Other stuff about me... I want to match in the Northeast in a competitive surgical residency, ideally in Philadelphia. I’m interested in being a physician-leader, likely in administration and/or health policy (eventually). I have no debt from college.

Yale Pros
- The Yale curriculum seemed chill
- Match list is bonkers
- Close to NYC, where I have a lot of friends
Yale Cons
- Full price. Will need to take out ~90K of loans per year.
- Weather
- New Haven

Vandy Pros
- 1 year preclinical
- Will only end up taking around 33k/yr in loans
- Weather
- Nashville is awesome
Vandy Cons
- Concerned about matches to top NE residencies

I know it seems clear-cut, but I’m more trying to gauge if Yale would give me an advantage in positioning myself to excel in healthcare in general. I currently work in business and wish to one day use my leadership and operations skills in leading a healthcare system/medical startup/similar ventures. Willing to pay $200K if it gives me a significant edge in being the next Atul Gawande (kinda joking, kinda not). Before you throw shade, I do have the resume to back up the goals. Not trying to be pretentious, just looking to get serious answers.

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[Rachapkis]

The real issue is what the delta is between Vanderbilt and Yale, and whether that delta is worth $228,000. Both schools are good, but not at the very top in terms of rankings. I suspect that if you excel on your Step exams, your clinical rotations, and your ECs (e.g., research, etc.), you will be able to match out of either school. What's more, I would attribute Atul Gawande's success to who he is and what he undertook, rather than where he went to medical school. Given those puts and takes, I would be inclined to choose Vanderbilt, but reasonable minds can differ on this one.

 

[574522]

Just as a note, Nashville is actually one of the unsung health care enterpreneurship (namely Health IT and private hospital) meccas of the nation. They have a lot of people both at their medical school and business school focused specifically on healthcare innovation. Depending on if your more interested on that side of things or the policy side, at which I imagine Yale is stronger, may influence which university is objectively 'better' for your goals.

 

[Willy38]

Yale is great and may have a slight edge for New England stuff but I don't think its worth 200k over a school like Vandy. In the end choose where you'll be happiest (for me 200k less debt would significantly improve my mood, thats a mortgage haha). I would go cheaper especially given your alternative is Vandy.

 

[here2help]

Take a look at Vandy’s match lists in recent years... I believe in 2016 or 2017 there was something like 9 neurosurgery matches out of a class of ~90 people... Pretty bonkers too, if you ask me. They seem to match VERY well, so I wouldn’t be too worried on that front.
Given that you liked both programs, I’d choose Vandy since the cost will be significantly cheaper and will alleviate a lot of headache surrounding paying off debt in the future. You also seem to have a better pro/con ratio for Vandy than for Yale Either way, you can’t go wrong!

~Disclaimer: I’m also planning on going to Vandy with scholarship. I’m big into writing too, so come to Nashville and we can collectively write a book that outperforms any of Atul Gawande’s stuff (kinda joking, kinda not!!!)

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

Vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaandyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Naruhodo]

n=1 but person I know who got a full ride scholarship to Vandy med school matched to MGH neurosurg program. If you're willing to put the work in it can be done.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Vandy bc of the cost, as well as a few of the other considerations you wrote down about Yale. It is clear that Vandy, FOR YOU, seems to be the obvious choice.

There is no way that you should be afraid to choose Vandy due to match lists. The Vandy grads do fantastic in their matches, especially in surgical fields and you will have no trouble coming back up north. In fact, it will help you that you are coming from a school where many of your classmates will be looking to stay South than if you went to Yale. Residency programs in Philadelphia will likely have many apps in the pile from Yale medical students, but not as many from Vandy. This can certainly work in your favor.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

Yale!

 

[freedoctor17]

Yale!

You'd really choose Yale with 90k of loans per year

That's a lot of money. If they got some sort of aid that brought it down to like 50 to 60k then I'd say it's reasonable but I feel like 90k is too much when the other option is a third of the cost.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

I would! For me, there is nothing more "worth it" in life to go into debt over than a top-notch education. People go into debt for tons of more trivial things in life- expensive clothes, boats, cars, fancy homes...but to go into debt for a Yale degree? IMO, totally worth it. You will come out the other end as a physician with a healthy, stable income. And, if you're wise with your spending, you could pay that debt off in a reasonable time!

But again, those are just my thoughts/priorities, everyone is different!

 

[freedoctor17]

I would! For me, there is nothing more "worth it" in life to go into debt over than a top-notch education. People go into debt for tons of more trivial things in life- expensive clothes, boats, cars, fancy homes...but to go into debt for a Yale degree? IMO, totally worth it. You will come out the other end as a physician with a healthy, stable income. And, if you're wise with your spending, you could pay that debt off in a reasonable time!

But again, those are just my thoughts/priorities, everyone is different!

That's fair! For me personally money is very important so the opposite would be very true in my case.

 

[931408]

I would! For me, there is nothing more "worth it" in life to go into debt over than a top-notch education. People go into debt for tons of more trivial things in life- expensive clothes, boats, cars, fancy homes...but to go into debt for a Yale degree? IMO, totally worth it. You will come out the other end as a physician with a healthy, stable income. And, if you're wise with your spending, you could pay that debt off in a reasonable time!

But again, those are just my thoughts/priorities, everyone is different!

It sounds like you think a Yale degree makes you a better physician somehow. You learn the same things at all medical schools; let's not get carried away here by saying a Yale education is top-notch while a Vanderbilt education is not. If you want to have a discussion about how the external opportunities differ (research, global health, etc...), that's a separate story.

 

[lalalallala]

Vandy by a landslide

I think it is really crazy to think that you couldn't get the same residency coming from Vandy vs Yale. Both are extremely well respected programs. Vandy's 1 year pre clinical curriculum will give you a lot of time to make a strong residency application.

That 240k (before interest) may make you feel like you need to pick a lucrative speciality. It is also just money that could be going towards something fun or buying a house or your retirement. Or idk literally anything other than paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for what you perceive as a slight bump in prestige

 

[puahate]

Vandy

 

[NITRAS]

I would! For me, there is nothing more "worth it" in life to go into debt over than a top-notch education. People go into debt for tons of more trivial things in life- expensive clothes, boats, cars, fancy homes...but to go into debt for a Yale degree? IMO, totally worth it. You will come out the other end as a physician with a healthy, stable income. And, if you're wise with your spending, you could pay that debt off in a reasonable time!

But again, those are just my thoughts/priorities, everyone is different!

You do know that those people who paid less for their degrees get paid the same....right?

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

LOOOOL at you folks. Of course, these are both excellent programs (better than I am anywhere near matriculating to). But I gave this person my honest opinion (and the opinion of most of the population besides SDN haha)- Yale is better than Vanderbilt. Period, that is the truth. Obviously, you can still go anywhere and be a great doctor, what kind of odd statement is that? They could go to UT Rio Grand Valley and be a phenomenal clinician. But in academia (and honestly beyond), that top Ivy brand matters. It's just the way the world works, sorry if ya don't like it. Let's not be naive. And I would definitely say that Yale will give you a regional bump for NE programs as well. ESPECIALLY, if you are trying to be involved in political/administrative medicine...the next ATUL haha. Honestly, I read your statement again more closely and it gives me all the more reason to suggest Yale over Vandy with your interest in healthcare leadership, etc.

Everyone has different factors that influence their decisions. I made the decision once to follow the money to a less prestigious undergrad (Ivy vs Public), and I could never quite shake the feeling of "what if." I'd never wish that regret on anyone else. My motto now is to go all out. Money is made to be spent on things that are precious to us.

But hey, these are both great! Just my 2 cents haha.

 

[rball]

Based on your stated career goals, Yale is the better choice. Now if finances are a big concern, or if you’d be happier at Vandy, go there. But based on your goals of matching into New England, and potentially being involved in policy/leadership, the reputation of yale within those circles is going to give you an advantage.

You are correct their match outcomes are on another level. Vandy is great, but you want to make it as easy for yourself as possible to achieve your career goals. As you progress further in your training, it becomes harder and harder (for the most part) to make a jump into the next tier of schools/programs/jobs/etc, so you would be doing yourself a favor by going with Yale.

Different people have different priorities. I tend to believe it’s better to focus on your happiness and career goals over money, and this will give you the least regrets in life as a physician guaranteed to make 6 figures (esp if you pursue a surgical subspecialty). That being said if $$ is a huge concern for you, vandy is a still a great option.

 

[emergentmd]

Yale = $360K loans which is $400K when you finish med school. 7 yrs and you are finished a surgical subspecialty residency with a 600K loan.

Your options to do anything academics will be VERY limited. Good luck and whoever said to take this path is financial malpractice.

Go to Yale, 600K loan at age 32. No way you could ever pay that off with an academic starting salary. Your only real option would be to slop at the highest paying job in the worse areas. You will NEVER understand such a burden until you have it. The stress looking at the 400K continue to grow will be a financial gorilla on your back and mind that you will never understand.

Nice northeast area? fantasy.

The only people telling you to go to Yale are Med students/premed students. I love the unicorn and magical dragon ideals.

Hell, I would pick a middle of the road state school.

 

[rball]

Yale = $360K loans which is $400K when you finish med school. 7 yrs and you are finished a surgical subspecialty residency with a 600K loan.

Your options to do anything academics will be VERY limited. Good luck and whoever said to take this path is financial malpractice.

Go to Yale, 600K loan at age 32. No way you could ever pay that off with an academic starting salary. Your only real option would be to slop at the highest paying job in the worse areas.

Nice northeast area? fantasy.

The only people telling you to go to Yale are Med students/premed students. I love the unicorn and magical dragon ideals.

First of all I’m not a premed or yale med student. Also, you make $ during residency. Not much, but enough. So if you are smart with your $, you start paying off the loans during that time. And most surgical subspecialties don’t have a residency length of 7 years.

If you go into a surgical subspecialty and shoot for leadership/policymaking positions (as this student is hoping to do), your life will not be ruined by the debtload provided. I don’t believe OP’s career goals are magical dragon ideals, I think based on what she/he has said and his/her current acceptances they are tangible and attainable goals in the future and easier to attain if he/she goes to Yale. I know my advice goes against the grain of classic SDN advice, but I know several physicians who have made these types of decisions and have turned out just fine.

 

[emergentmd]

Yale = $360K loans which is $400K when you finish med school. 7 yrs and you are finished a surgical subspecialty residency with a 600K loan.

Your options to do anything academics will be VERY limited. Good luck and whoever said to take this path is financial malpractice.

Go to Yale, 600K loan at age 32. No way you could ever pay that off with an academic starting salary. Your only real option would be to slop at the highest paying job in the worse areas.

Nice northeast area? fantasy.

The only people telling you to go to Yale are Med students/premed students. I love the unicorn and magical dragon ideals.

First of all I’m not a premed or yale med student. Also, you make $ during residency. Not much, but enough. So if you are smart with your $, you start paying off the loans during that time. And most surgical subspecialties don’t have a residency length of 7 years.

If you go into a surgical subspecialty and shoot for leadership/policymaking positions (as this student is hoping to do), your life will not be ruined by the debtload provided. I don’t believe OP’s career goals are magical dragon ideals, I think based on what she/he has said and his/her current acceptances they are tangible and attainable goals in the future and easier to attain if he/she goes to Yale. I know my advice goes against the grain of classic SDN advice, but I know several physicians who have made these types of decisions and have turned out just fine.

There is a reason you are med student and still a fly in the attendings eyes. Sometimes its better to sit back and listen but you will be swatted into your rightful place soon enough.

I know of some that quit college and now millionaires but I am not going to tell anyone to quit college.

What are you going to do with a 50K residency taxable income with 500K in loans? Seriously your financial knowledge is very lacking.

And your nitpicking about 6-7 yrs surgical subspecialties which makes you just argumentative.
7 Yrs - NSG, ENT/Plastics with Sub, Thoracic, vascular

Also I never called you a Yale med student so your reading comprehension is also lacking.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

There is a reason you are med student and still a fly in the attendings eyes. Sometimes its better to sit back and listen but you will be swatted into your rightful place soon enough.

I know of some that quit college and now millionaires but I am not going to tell anyone to quit college.

What are you going to do with a 50K residency taxable income with 500K in loans? Seriously your financial knowledge is very lacking.

And your nitpicking about 6-7 yrs surgical subspecialties which makes you just argumentative.
7 Yrs - NSG, ENT/Plastics with Sub, Thoracic, vascular

Also I never called you a Yale med student so your reading comprehension is also lacking.

Haha, you seem like a distasteful, somewhat bitter, person. Also, your advice sucks. 500K in loans is like investing in a home. For MANY people, a Yale education is worth much much more than a nice home. The doors it could open, the connections this person could make...it isn't even close.

Again, Vandy is great- Yale is better.

Also, you should probably be banned or something from this thread. You just threatened this person by saying they would be "swatted into [their] rightful place." Wtf.

 

[emergentmd]

Haha, you seem like a distasteful, somewhat bitter, person. Also, your advice sucks. 500K in loans is like investing in a home. For MANY people, a Yale education is worth much much more than a nice home. The doors it could open, the connections this person could make...it isn't even close.

Again, Vandy is great- Yale is better.

Also, you should probably be banned or something from this thread. You just threatened this person by saying they would be "swatted into [their] rightful place." Wtf.

My goodness, threat? Someone needs a pacifier.
Equating 500K in a student loan to a 500K home is like apples to a rotten orange. I don't know how some are so financially ignorant.

 

[Avada Cadaver]

I interviewed at both last cycle and they're both amazing med schools and have their own merits. Yale has the Yale name and it's unique curriculum, while Vanderbilt has a better hospital system, and better city imho. I personally preferred Vanderbilt but my goals aren't similar to yours. Since you have some experience in the business world, I'm sure you're aware of their predilection for ivy-leagues. That said, the dean of medicine at Yale attended a medical school "less" prestigious than both the schools you're considering.

But more importantly, OP you should reach out to Yale and see if they are willing to match your scholarship. I know they say they only offer "need based" aid, but I can personally tell you they do offer/match full tuition and full-COA merit scholarships.

 

[camnewton1]

I interviewed at both last cycle and they're both amazing med schools and have their own merits. Yale has the Yale name and it's unique curriculum, while Vanderbilt has a better hospital system, and better city imho. I personally preferred Vanderbilt but my goals aren't similar to yours. Since you have some experience in the business world, I'm sure you're aware of their predilection for ivy-leagues. That said, the dean of medicine at Yale attended a medical school "less" prestigious than both the schools you're considering.

But more importantly, OP you should reach out to Yale and see if they are willing to match your scholarship. I know they say they only offer "need based" aid, but I can personally tell you they do offer/match full tuition and full-COA merit scholarships.

Are you sure about this? I’ve also been accepted to Yale, and they very specifically said they don’t match merit scholarships and not to send in offers from other medical schools.

OP, this is a tough decision for sure. I think if you’re serious about pursuing an “atul gawande” like trajectory, go with Yale, as long as you’re completely aware of the debt you’ll be taking on. Vandy is a great school but when it comes to the tippy top the Yale name might give you a boost. Either way can’t go wrong.

 

[Avada Cadaver]

Are you sure about this? I’ve also been accepted to Yale, and they very specifically said they don’t match merit scholarships and not to send in offers from other medical schools.

Yes, I have multiple first hand experiences, even one of my classmates was offered full tuition merit at Yale. Almost every single ivy-league/t20 med school does, although not like Penn/Washu, where they just auto match. You'd need to be a compelling applicant or a superstar. OP's experience isn't exactly traditional and Yale seems like the right choice for him/her, which is why I suggested they try.

 

[rball]

There is a reason you are med student and still a fly in the attendings eyes. Sometimes its better to sit back and listen but you will be swatted into your rightful place soon enough.

I know of some that quit college and now millionaires but I am not going to tell anyone to quit college.

What are you going to do with a 50K residency taxable income with 500K in loans? Seriously your financial knowledge is very lacking.

And your nitpicking about 6-7 yrs surgical subspecialties which makes you just argumentative.
7 Yrs - NSG, ENT/Plastics with Sub, Thoracic, vascular

Also I never called you a Yale med student so your reading comprehension is also lacking.

Dang, looks like I really touched a nerve with you. I will say that almost every student I know in this situation in real life, outside of SDN, has made the type of decision I am recommending (most of them have gone onto top programs/careers). I know people who have followed the $$ and regretted their decision years later. I have had real life mentors recommend that I not follow the $ but instead do what is best for my career, even when choosing amongst schools of similar caliber. So I don’t think my view is as extreme/ignorant as you make it out to be.

OP, congrats on your options. I think Yale would be the better choice for you, but I can certainly understand and respect why others may recommend Vandy. Either way its a tough decision and seek help from those outside SDN; this forum can attract some very bitter people as seen above. Best of luck!

 

[lalalallala]

Such a shame that people can't see that the difference in outcomes between a Vandy and Yale path is entirely dependent on the person, their abilities, and their potential. Both of these schools will give you what you need to succeed. OP I would go with Vandy but you should go with the decision you can live with. Just because people on this thread think that Yale's name is the end all be all doesn't mean you should believe them.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

Such a shame that people can't see that the difference in outcomes between a Vandy and Yale path is entirely dependent on the person, their abilities, and their potential. Both of these schools will give you what you need to succeed. OP I would go with Vandy but you should go with the decision you can live with. Just because people on this thread think that Yale's name is the end all be all doesn't mean you should believe them.

No one is saying it's the "end all be all." We are, however, being honest and telling this person which schools will be best for their career trajectory/goals. Just because some loud SDNers try to persuade OP that the top tier Ivy name doesn't matter in business/politics/academics doesn't mean OP should ignore the world around them and believe them.

 

[forestcorgi]

Yale med alum here, had a great experience but would add to the chorus saying Vandy seems like the better fit for you. Nashville is a larger and more vibrant city than New Haven, and if you want to match in the NE sometimes being there already can work against you (i.e., if 5 people similar to you are applying to specialty X from Yale, they will inevitably compare you against each other, likely won't take all of you. Wanting to go NE from Vandy will stand out more, so to speak.) Basically, to me it seems like your main Con from Vandy is nothing to worry about

As for finances, only you can decide that. If you're really into academia for the long term, there are public loan forgiveness programs where you pay ~$300 a month for 120 payments and can get the rest forgiven if you go into a 501c3 hospital (most hospitals). 120 payments will be no problem in a surgical residency and if you can get the rest forgiven, the upfront cost doesn't matter as much. https://students-residents.aamc.org/financial-aid/article/public-service-loan-forgiveness-pslf/

 

[Dentate Gyrus]

I think the difference in prestige is not big enough to take 200k in loans over. Vandy is a well respected program that probably won’t close any doors for you in terms of match or ability to go into administration which is bolstered by the fact that you already have the background. Many healthcare admins do not have prestigious pedigrees — and you have the choice between two institutions that are prestigious both in medicine and outside! Vandy has better clinical training and a whole year built in for you to do whatever you want to add to your CV. I think Vandy is the better choice to achieve what you want at a lower cost

Also, someone mentioned the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, which may sound nice but to date has rejected 99% of loan forgiveness applicants! Only 1% of all who’ve applied have gotten their loans forgiven, so I definitely would not rely on the program to make your loans disappear

 

[Nerdanese]

I think Yale is a stronger school than Vanderbilt, but I think $200k is too much of a price tag. Go to Vanderbilt, make connections, work hard, pay off your loans aggressively, and I think you'll be fine.

 

[Avada Cadaver]

@Avada Cadaver how do you know Yale gives merit scholarships? Did people contact admin to ask for them?

I was with my friend eating a burrito when they got the call offering scholly. How it went down:

-UCSD offered him full tuition
- He goes to Yale's revisit (he was flown there for free; some schools do this when they want you to matriculate: I went to a couple revisits with everything covered by the school). @ said re-visit he says he is likely going to UCSD because $$
- We eating burrito, he gets call from Yale matching full tuition.
- He gets into UCLA off waitlist w/ Geffen scholarship
- Yale matches for full ride
- Westwood LA >>>>>>>>> New Haven CT, he matriculates to UCLA.

Side note: The mexican food in New-Haven is pretty dope tho. Way better than anything I ever had in NYC. That said, Nashville has Hatti B's, which is the best fried chicken you'll ever taste.

 

[Sea Otter]

I have a good friend who went to Vanderbilt then matched at CHOP for residency. Vandy can get you to Philly. Save the money.

 

[Grapesurgery]

Y’all realize this thread is over 1 year old and OP made their decision right?