Vanderbilt (with $) vs. Univ. of Florida (with $$$)

[Leejwwc]

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Hi everyone,

So it's getting close to May 15th and I have been surprised with a tough decision. I have been set on going to Vanderbilt for a long time (loved the interview day and second look) and got a partial scholarship (~1/3 tuition+fees) to boot with the rest being your standard Stafford sub/unsub loan limits. The students there are great, the atmosphere is laid-back, and the facilities, education, and residency placement all seem top notch.

Yesterday, I discovered that the Univ. of Florida is offering me an amazing financial aid package (I am a FL resident btw). At the interview, they were pretty nebulous about money so I expected none. As it turns out, I received a scholarship covering most of the tuition+fees, plus a no-interest institutional loan along with the Stafford sub loan. I would need to take out very little (if any) of the Stafford unsub. I had a positive impression of the facilities and training at UF on my interview day, but didn't attend second look. I am a little hesitant about their grading policy (ABC grades) and how that may affect competition and residency placement, although their match list appears to be quite strong.

I would like to leave all possibilities open in the future, including academia (where I know pedigree is somewhat important) and I would like to consider some of the more competitive specialties (ENT, derm, rads, anesthesia, etc).

Just wanted to hear some of your opinions on if I should give UF some more thought. I am leaning towards Vanderbilt at the moment.

Best,
Lee

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

what is the pedigree worth to you? You are more than able to match any of those listed programs from any medical school, and Florida is no slouch. (ps, first 2 year grades don't mean much, so don't let that bother you)

How much is the perception worth? And the price difference between that number and what you will end up paying make it worth it? If you can justify the price than pay it

questions only you can answer....

 

[JStephens]

Im partial to Vandy personally, but if the $$$ pacakage is as good as you say it is, Id be all over FL.

 

[flip26]

Quantify for us the 4 year diff and report back.

Anything over about 25k total is nutty to me. For others, they would gladly pay an add'l 100k for Vandy. I recall at least one who did just that last year - he posts in the Vandy threads a lot. You might want to ask for opinions there (but honestly, an MS1 who hasn't had to pay back dime one may not be the best source for "is it worth it" questions - consult the residents and attendings, and you will get a different perspective on overpaying for that MD degree).

If you understand the dynamics of debt, and the implications it will have in the future for repaying the debt, then decide for yourself if that shiny Vandy diploma is "worth" it or not.

 

[gatorsforchrist]

I voted UF, but I secretly want you to go to Vandy so I can MAYBE receive a small portion of your aid!!! 😀

In all honestly, I'm a UF grad and am deciding between UF and USF. I don't think that you can make a poor decision either way. Vandy is a bit expensive I think so you may not wish to take on far greater debt than if you were at UF.

That being said, if you wish to go into academia, Vandy has an edge, but UF is up and rising with their new cancer/genetics research institute, etc. However, Vandy has more up-to-date facilities I think (at least UFs were a bit out-dated).

Like flip said, exact numbers would go along way in the decision process I believe. God bless, maybe I'll see you in August!!! 🙂

 

[RoadRunner17]

So how much exactly, is the difference? More than 5-10k a year is probably hard to justify, but that's something you'll need to decide for yourself.

 

[georgearms]

I picked UF. Vandy's cost of attendance is something ridiculous like $60-65,000, and that's just crazy.

 

[megan143]

I vote UF, but I'm biased. Go gators!!! 😀

 

[herbb]

i would go to vandy if i were considering academia

 

[JJMrK]

I'd probably follow the money.

 

[drizzt3117]

I would pick Vanderbilt.

 

[RSAgator]

I've heard a lot of negatives from many of my friends who are current UF students and it was probably the last impressive school I visited (while vandy was by FAR the most impressive). That being said UF is no slouch and you will be very competent/competitive coming out of med school there. I think at 40k/year for Vandy vs. what sounds like 20k/year for UF I'd probably take UF, but you can't really go wrong with either decision.

 

[19nbj58]

I've heard a lot of negatives from many of my friends who are current UF students and it was probably the last impressive school I visited (while vandy was by FAR the most impressive). That being said UF is no slouch and you will be very competent/competitive coming out of med school there. I think at 40k/year for Vandy vs. what sounds like 20k/year for UF I'd probably take UF, but you can't really go wrong with either decision.

I'm gonna have to co-sign the bolded portion.

 

[Leejwwc]

I appreciate your opinions. It looks like the vote is pretty evenly split. You're right, the difference in total indebtedness will run ~20-25K/yr.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

I appreciate your opinions. It looks like the vote is pretty evenly split. You're right, the difference in total indebtedness will run ~20-25K/yr.

So is the name on the degree (and all that comes with going there) worth an extra $80,000 to $100,000 (pre-interest)? If you can answer this honestly you have your choice made

 

[drizzt3117]

So is the name on the degree (and all that comes with going there) worth an extra $80,000 to $100,000 (pre-interest)? If you can answer this honestly you have your choice made

Interesting how we don't have Vanderbilt grads here telling the OP that.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

Interesting how we don't have Vanderbilt grads here telling the OP that.

They would naturally give a biased opinion, which isn't worth as much as an unbiased one. Most students that go to any particular school will talk it up. I'm sure UF students would say the opposite of those from Vandy. You have to throw both sides out.

Where I came from (which wasn't much), a 100 g's is alot of money. But we each come from different backgrounds and probly each value a dollar differently. This is why I ask if all that encompasses Vandy is worth that much extra money. If it is to you, then obviously go to Vandy. If not, save the dough. Its a simple question that doesnt always have an easy answer

 

[guestdoc]

I appreciate your opinions. It looks like the vote is pretty evenly split. You're right, the difference in total indebtedness will run ~20-25K/yr.

This is a pretty tough decision. All else being equal, I'd go for Vanderbilt no doubt, but with 20-25k a year difference.... that adds up to be a lot even before interest is factored in.

I don't know a ton about UF, but as long as it is solid (comparatively) I doubt there are any schools that would be worth 25k per year for me. That being said, if I loved the other school way more than the cheaper one and thought I'd be much happier at the more expensive place...

Only you know, for you, whether Vanderbilt is worth an extra 20-25k a year, adding up to 80-100k plus interest. We're talking over 20 thousand dollar menu items a year, here! Or a solid car each year! 😉

Best of luck

 

[Mattabet]

Wow, 48% to 52% in the poll... that's helpful. As for me, I'll always vote for the choice with multiple dollar signs (and I would have voted 5 times for '$$$!!!').

For me, the peace of mind that goes with a big scholarship would be huge, and if you're from Florida, might it be nice to stay closer to home? Just my $$$0.02

 

[drizzt3117]

They would naturally give a biased opinion, which isn't worth as much as an unbiased one. Most students that go to any particular school will talk it up. I'm sure UF students would say the opposite of those from Vandy. You have to throw both sides out.

Where I came from (which wasn't much), a 100 g's is alot of money. But we each come from different backgrounds and probly each value a dollar differently. This is why I ask if all that encompasses Vandy is worth that much extra money. If it is to you, then obviously go to Vandy. If not, save the dough. Its a simple question that doesnt always have an easy answer

I guess I should have said "top tier schools" as opposed to Vanderbilt then.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

I guess I should have said "top tier schools" as opposed to Vanderbilt then.

If they were in a similar situation and chose pedigree over money then they obviously made the decision that I posed earlier. Not sure what your point is?? 😕

 

[drizzt3117]

If they were in a similar situation and chose pedigree over money then they obviously made the decision that I posed earlier. Not sure what your point is?? 😕

Just an observation that those people who choose to attend top tier schools generally don't complain about the investment they made.

 

[bretticus]

Obviously I am partial to Vandy, but I couldn't fault you for going with UF. While I'm sure I could make some argument about how we're a better school, all schools are LCME accredited i.e., good schools. I personally opted for Vandy over my state school for about $20-25k overall (not per year), but that is a big difference in dollar amounts. It seems the poll is split as well, underscoring what a difficult decision this is. I wish I could help, but I can't tell you what I think my degree is worth until at least match day... 😉

Good luck with your decision -- it's a great one to have after all. We hope to see you in the fall, but if not wish you well. 🙂

 

[Beta Cell]

I'm a current UF undergraduate and voted for Vandy with $. I'm also slightly impartial because I myself would like to see something outside of Florida. Florida is a great school, pretty girls, tons of things to do, no dirth of parties, friendly people/professors, amazing weather. I can't imagine a better atmosphere than Florida but the Vanderbilt name matters too, just ask Anderson Cooper.

 

[BJPENNSTATE]

this is probably the hardest decision i've seen on SDN.

if i was in the OP's shoes..i'll be pulling my hair out!

my ego and head would say..go to vandy...

but my wallet and heart (assuming you have a gf, close friends, family in florida), i would pick florida.

my vote...???

 

[flip26]

Just an observation that those people who choose to attend top tier schools generally don't complain about the investment they made.

It depends on when you ask them.

If they are a preening pre-med, all caught up in the hype and glory of the USNEWs rankings, their opinion is useless.

If they are still in med school and not yet paying the debt back, they are not really in a position to decide if the extra cost/debt was "worth" the investment.

The murmurs and groans start with the folks in residency, particularly now that the push is for earlier repayment by the lenders (fewer deferrals, shorter repayment periods, higher interest rates, etc).

But if you read the posts of almost all of the attendings on SDN, they say it is not worth it.

 

[Kickback]

That being said, if you wish to go into academia, Vandy has an edge, but UF is up and rising with their new cancer/genetics research institute, etc. However, Vandy has more up-to-date facilities I think (at least UFs were a bit out-dated).

Like others said, if you want to go into academia the name of Vandy is probably worth it, especially if you want to conduct research.

If you just want to be a physician, UF.

 

[QuaerensIntelle]

I had to choose between UPITT with a 1/3rd full scholarship and UCF with a full scholarship...and I am 97% on UCF. So my input would probably be UF if you had family there/liked it better + got more money.

Every doctor I talked to said no debt is something priceless, in terms of psychological and financial health-especially since they seemed universally worried about the future of medicine.

However, I am going to also second everyone's comments about UF. My brother-in-law did his residency there and had a very Low opinion of the medical students level of education. (Just my 2 cents).

 

[funkydrmonkey]

Wow, I have never seen such an equal distribution in the poll...

 

[Maxx4]

I'd pick UF in a heartbeat.

 

[pianola]

All I have to say is make sure your scholarship at UF is renewable for four years. Also your loans. Call the finaid office.

I got amazingly craptastic aid from UF. They said that "usually" scholarships are renewable but loans were a little different.

 

[debbidala]

I'm a non-trad, and I think maybe that gives me a slightly different view of money than a younger student. I bought my house for 108,000, so paying that kind of money for the same paper with a different name on it seems a little wacky to me. I say UF all the way. Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[Food]

Pick Vandy.

I'm waitlisted at UF and I need that spot =/

So pick Vandy!!!!

woo Vandy!!!!!

 

[drizzt3117]

It depends on when you ask them.

If they are a preening pre-med, all caught up in the hype and glory of the USNEWs rankings, their opinion is useless.

If they are still in med school and not yet paying the debt back, they are not really in a position to decide if the extra cost/debt was "worth" the investment.

The murmurs and groans start with the folks in residency, particularly now that the push is for earlier repayment by the lenders (fewer deferrals, shorter repayment periods, higher interest rates, etc).

But if you read the posts of almost all of the attendings on SDN, they say it is not worth it.

That's simply selection bias. SDN is notoriously debt-adverse.

I've had numerous attendings tell us that their issues with debt repayment were trivial, even recent grads. As they were telling us this while paying a $2000 restaurant bill for taking 30 med students to dinner I think their words carried a certain amount of credibility. One younger FM doc at our school said he was four years our from residency, had two kids, owned a house, two cars, and only had $40k remaining on his loans, and he went to a relatively expensive med school in Chicago <shrug> The FM group had about 10 different docs speak to med students about debt in an effort to get people to consider FM (I'm not, but I'll eat their food anyways) None of them thought it was a big deal.

Sure it's possible compensation in health care will change, but in my experience the people that are worrying about this tend to be premeds and maybe med students as opposed to attendings <shrug> My guess is things will pretty much stay the way they are, with incremental, minor decreases in reimbursements combined with technological and procedural advances that keep physicians slightly ahead of the curve. That seems to be what's happened historically.

 

[flip26]

That's simply selection bias. SDN is notoriously debt-adverse.

I've had numerous attendings tell us that their issues with debt repayment were trivial, even recent grads. As they were telling us this while paying a $2000 restaurant bill for taking 30 med students to dinner I think their words carried a certain amount of credibility. One younger FM doc at our school said he was four years our from residency, had two kids, owned a house, two cars, and only had $40k remaining on his loans, and he went to a relatively expensive med school in Chicago <shrug> The FM group had about 10 different docs speak to med students about debt in an effort to get people to consider FM (I'm not, but I'll eat their food anyways) None of them thought it was a big deal.

Sure it's possible compensation in health care will change, but in my experience the people that are worrying about this tend to be premeds and maybe med students as opposed to attendings <shrug> My guess is things will pretty much stay the way they are, with incremental, minor decreases in reimbursements combined with technological and procedural advances that keep physicians slightly ahead of the curve. That seems to be what's happened historically.

A worthless anecdote without knowing what the debt started at...and even then, you don't know the guy's background - maybe he is from a wealthy family and did not have to take out many loans, or maybe he attended on a large scholarship, thus didn't take out many loans...

 

[drizzt3117]

A worthless anecdote without knowing what the debt started at...and even then, you don't know the guy's background - maybe he is from a wealthy family and did not have to take out many loans, or maybe he attended on a large scholarship, thus didn't take out many loans...

As it happens, I DO know the guy's background (he was one of my clinical preceptors) He didn't have significant family contribution and had some undergrad debt consolidated in with his med school loans. He had about 320k in debt after residency, but paid it off pretty quickly. His wife was a nurse, so they did have some other income, so this wouldn't happen as quickly for a single-income family, but then again, how many families are living off a single earner at this point in time?

The other people in the panel said they had similar backgrounds. They told us a lot of info specifically to dispel some of the thoughts people had about this topic. One of the people went to UMich OOS and had a ton of debt, and he said he'd paid it all off after 8 years. Keep in mind these are all Fam Med docs.

 

[Dookter]

As it happens, I DO know the guy's background (he was one of my clinical preceptors) He didn't have significant family contribution and had some undergrad debt consolidated in with his med school loans. He had about 320k in debt after residency, but paid it off pretty quickly. His wife was a nurse, so they did have some other income, so this wouldn't happen as quickly for a single-income family, but then again, how many families are living off a single earner at this point in time?

The other people in the panel said they had similar backgrounds. They told us a lot of info specifically to dispel some of the thoughts people had about this topic. One of the people went to UMich OOS and had a ton of debt, and he said he'd paid it all off after 8 years. Keep in mind these are all Fam Med docs.

Just so we don't throw off all the premeds on SDN, I'll point out that many, many docs owe a lot less than $320K and take a LONG time to pay it back. OP, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks about this. We all feel differently about money.

 

[drizzt3117]

Just so we don't throw off all the premeds on SDN, I'll point out that many, many docs owe a lot less than $320K and take a LONG time to pay it back. OP, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks about this. We all feel differently about money.

You also have to remember that people have differing views on debt as well. If you consolidate at a low interest rate at 30 years, 300k in debt post residency becomes a 1700 monthly payment. Let's say that you're a specialist that makes 300k a year and have a two income family making 360k total. Net of taxes and MP let's say you're at 190 take home and you have a 1M mortgage (payment $4300/month) Let's also say you contribute 15% of income to Roth IRAs and pension. Let's also set aside $3k a month for food, car payments, utilities, property taxes, association fees, and other household expenses. You're still sitting at ~4.5k a month of disposable income net of everything with significant savings. That $1700/month on their loan payments is about 10% of their take home, so one could make the argument that they'd rather just keep it on the books rather than throw a lot of money at it the first few years to repay. They might even consolidate it with other loans they have. There's a lot of different ways to deal with it, and some people might not even be that concerned with repayment per se.

Also keep in mind the debt #s are extreme. Most people don't come out of residency with anywhere near 300k in debt.

 

[Dookter]

You also have to remember that people have differing views on debt as well. If you consolidate at a low interest rate at 30 years, 300k in debt post residency becomes a 1700 monthly payment. Let's say that you're a specialist that makes 300k a year and have a two income family making 360k total. Net of taxes and MP let's say you're at 190 take home and you have a 1M mortgage (payment $4300/month) Let's also say you contribute 15% of income to Roth IRAs and pension. Let's also set aside $3k a month for food, car payments, utilities, property taxes, association fees, and other household expenses. You're still sitting at ~4.5k a month of disposable income net of everything with significant savings. That $1700/month on their loan payments is about 10% of their take home, so one could make the argument that they'd rather just keep it on the books rather than throw a lot of money at it the first few years to repay. They might even consolidate it with other loans they have. There's a lot of different ways to deal with it, and some people might not even be that concerned with repayment per se.

Yep, that's what I said...people have different opinions on money...that includes debt. It doesn't matter how you choose to calculate things [like you did above], one person is going to feel diffently than another about borrowing an extra $80-100K to attend one school over another. I could make similar calculations about what you can do with $100K over the long-term. The biggest problem with calculating things out in advance is that you're counting your chickens before they hatch. Everyone really needs to focus on what the money means to them right now, not after they have a fictional job making $300K/year and a fictional husband/wife that makes another $60K/year. If the extra expense is worth it to you, then make your decisions accordingly. Just remember that the OP needs to make a decision for himself/herself.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

It doesnt help that interest rates are fixed at 6.8% and 8.5% for grad plus loans. His loans were more than likely at a lower % AND he would have been able to consolidate them.

 

[drizzt3117]

It doesnt help that interest rates are fixed at 6.8% and 8.5% for grad plus loans. His loans were more than likely at a lower % AND he would have been able to consolidate them.

Well interest rates are lower now than they were when he would have been able to consolidate for at that time, so I'm not sure that's a huge factor.

I agree that it's a decision people need to make on their own, I just think people on SDN are much more debt-adverse than the average person I've run into in the health care system but YMMV. Furthermore, I think the average indebtedness this past year for med students was in the 130k range, IIRC, so I was giving a pretty worst case example with an easily achievable salary for anyone not in FM/Peds.

 

[metalgearHMN]

Wow, that poll was really decisive 😛

 

[Siverhideo1985]

I must say this result surprised me....money vs. US News at its best, haha

 

[RandomBlackManX]

Vandy. The UF COM environment is the worst!

If you get the opportunity, ask the first years or second years how many students failed out in the first semester and see if their answer makes your decision a little easier.

Peace of mind >>>>>>>>>>>> money. My two cents.

 

[tennisball80]

I would pick UF.

 

[Leejwwc]

I've been thinking about some of these things with my friends and family and its good to know others share similar concerns. Pianola - the scholarship is renewable (written on the financial letter). I don't know about the loan though. The vote really is split 50/50. Maybe I should just flip a coin ehhh... 😀 In truth, I am still leaning towards Vandy since I have had my heart set on it for so long and think it may be worth the investment. Well, just a few more days left to make the decision.

For those who commented on the (negative) UF environment, can you elaborate? I have not heard of this before until reading it here. Of course, all the students I talked to on interview day had only good things to say...

 

[guestdoc]

For those who commented on the (negative) UF environment, can you elaborate? I have not heard of this before until reading it here. Of course, all the students I talked to on interview day had only good things to say...

You might be able to get a few answers from some current UF students... did you get any student emails when you were interviewing there? It seemed like all the places I interviewed at had some students who gave their email out for people to ask them any other questions. Maybe hit some of them up, tell them you liked UF for (enter reasons), are excited about the school, but are in the middle of making an important decision and had some concerns, and then ask them some of your straightforward questions. Try and phrase it in a way that you can get straightforward answers, though, or you might just get the pleasant fluff that seems to pervade interviews. 😉

Again, best. First, figure out if you would be willing to go to both of them, then I guess narrow it down by money, location, and your preference. Tough choice; let us know how it turns out!

 

[pianola]

Also, consider asking about whether the UF loans are renewable. They told me that loans were available to "the top 30-35 people in the class". I don't know if that meant "based on need" or "based on grades" or based on something else but it sounded pretty stupid to me.

Would this still be a tough decision if your loans were unsubsidized? Think about it.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Ive never visited UF..i interviewed at vandy, loved it....but i would still go with UF.

 

[pianola]

Ive never visited UF..i interviewed at vandy, loved it....but i would still go with UF.

I think UF also pretty seriously underestimates the cost of living. Or at least, they estimate that you are a rather frugal person.

$550 for a computer? Well, yeah, you can buy one for that much, but, don't expect the nice treatment.

$3.10 per day for transportation? Hope you weren't planning on driving home from school cause that'll cost you extra if you live more than 5 miles away and your car gets bad mileage and/or you need to get a checkup/insurance for your car.

Yeah, ok, I'm just bitter I got such lousy aid. I admit it.