Vasc. Surgeon filed Federal lawsuit for fraudulent billing due to computer/phone use in OR

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siednarb

siednarb

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Apparently there is a vascular surgeon out in Utah who filed a federal lawsuit against 5 anesthesiologists for using their phone and laptops in the OR during cases - anyone out there in Utah know anything about this?

From the Federal brief:
"Dr. Debenham disputed a power bill over the phone, Dr. Evans shopped online and read the news, Dr. Larson planned an extensive vacation to Lake Powell, Dr. Miner watched football games with headphones in, and Dr. Nelson selected music for and coordinated disc jockey gigs. "

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siednarb said:
Apparently there is a vascular surgeon out in Utah who filed a federal lawsuit against 5 anesthesiologists for using their phone and laptops in the OR during cases - anyone out there in Utah know anything about this?

From the Federal brief:
"Dr. Debenham disputed a power bill over the phone, Dr. Evans shopped online and read the news, Dr. Larson planned an extensive vacation to Lake Powell, Dr. Miner watched football games with headphones in, and Dr. Nelson selected music for and coordinated disc jockey gigs. "

Links:


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“Dr Khoury was listening to music.”

“Dr. Khoury was taking calls from the ER/floor/office.”

“Dr. Khoury was talking about last night’s dinner.”
 
They dismissed the case as expected. That’s all we need to know.

I know laws. This has been settled law (not just anesthesia) way before smartphones, tablets. I do find it a little funny how the vascular surgery first raised his concerns since 2007 (when iPhone was launched). Yes we all (well some of us) had windows phone or palm treo or blackberries. It wasn’t used often for web browsing.

But settled laws allowed healthcare workers to take personal phone calls and not violate any Medicare billing.
 
I’m all for using personal devices in the OR when things are stable and cruising.

But I’ve covered a few CRNAs that openly browse the web , shop, book flights etc on the large vent / machine 24” monitor, in full view of everyone. That’s what makes us look bad.

Reprimand them, but you’re being the dick of course , as “I’ve always done this , it’s fine “…
 
JoelJoel84 said:
I’m all for using personal devices in the OR when things are stable and cruising.

But I’ve covered a few CRNAs that openly browse the web , shop, book flights etc on the large vent / machine 24” monitor, in full view of everyone. That’s what makes us look bad.

Reprimand them, but you’re being the dick of course , as “I’ve always done this , it’s fine “…
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Only UpToDate on the big monitor 😉. But it’s equally distracting.
 
JoelJoel84 said:
I’m all for using personal devices in the OR when things are stable and cruising.

But I’ve covered a few CRNAs that openly browse the web , shop, book flights etc on the large vent / machine 24” monitor, in full view of everyone. That’s what makes us look bad.

Reprimand them, but you’re being the dick of course , as “I’ve always done this , it’s fine “…
Click to expand...

I had a crna literally watch pga tour on his huge iPad. I’ve since then left that job, and that joker is the new chief crna….
 
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I text in the room. I shop on Amazon.
Heck. Me and my plastic surgeon buddy. Had game plan last fall cause we always order newest iPhone and it was 8am pre order time. I put his patient to sleep at 745am . Patient prep and ready by 755am. But pre order was 8am. The iPhone App Store website was glitchy for the first few minutes at 8am. So didn’t get the order in till 810am.

Neither one of us reported ourselves for delaying surgery for 10-15 min minutes trying to preorder new phone.
 
Just wanted to say figured that Vac was supposed to be Vasc, but for a long time I was trying to figure out what PEDs stood for besides performance enhancing drugs.
 
"Hey Siri, how do I tell Dr Khoury that the vascular residents have better outcomes?"

"Hey Siri, how soon is too soon for a MTP?"

Etc.

If the vitals are stable and the room is cohesive and communicating fine --> I don't mind someone using a phone. I do.
 
michael-khoury-md-saint-george-ut.jpg



Good luck doing your vascular cases on awake patients from now on.. douche!
 
DesiredMemberName? said:
He’s after that False Claims Act whistleblower payday 🤑 🤑 🤑
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He took a gamble, made a claim in bad faith, and lost. Now all he has done is naming and vilify his coworkers. This dbag is going down. He's probably going to claim later that he is being retaliated against. Fun fact: people don't want to work with someone that talks **** about them.
 
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coffeebythelake said:
He took a gamble, made a claim in bad faith, and lost. Now all he has done is naming and vilify his coworkers. This dbag is going down. He's probably going to claim later that he is being retaliated against. Fun fact: people don't want to work with someone that talks **** about them.
Click to expand...

According to the judge’s ruling above, the case was only partially dismissed. It looks like it may still be ongoing.
 
Anesthesia_Guy said:
Jeez I read the title of the thread and nearly had a stroke.
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Sorry for the bad grammar - I created this thread on my iPhone with gloved hands placing an a-line in an ECMO patient 😜
so my typing was not very accurate
And yes meant to type Vasc not Vac

and yes case was only partially dismissed - there is a trial date scheduled for 2024
 

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"Because the anesthesiologist was distracted, the patient lost blood and fluid, needed vasopressor medication to maintain blood pressure, and endured greater kidney injury."

That's rich... I also love how he often had to "remind them" to monitor their patients. Does he literally expect them to STARE at the monitor? If they have a non-invasive BP, auditory pulse-ox, and reasonable alarm parameters on the vent, you only need to look at your monitor for a few seconds, every few minutes... Not that you all don't already know this.

But in reality, I have seen some sketchy/stupid stuff from docs, crnas, and residents. Having a headphone in one ear, watching sports and YouTube. Taking personal calls and talking loudly on the phone with headphones to change flights (literally WHILE inducing and intubating a patient). And the list can continue. Some people's level of acceptable is... Embarrassing.
 
abolt18 said:
"Because the anesthesiologist was distracted, the patient lost blood and fluid, needed vasopressor medication to maintain blood pressure, and endured greater kidney injury."

That's rich... I also love how he often had to "remind them" to monitor their patients. Does he literally expect them to STARE at the monitor? If they have a non-invasive BP, auditory pulse-ox, and reasonable alarm parameters on the vent, you only need to look at your monitor for a few seconds, every few minutes... Not that you all don't already know this.
Click to expand...

Honestly, this sounds like the usual "blame anesthesia" b.s. that some surgeons love to do. Usual weak surgeons. The patient bled and lost blood because of inadequate surgical hemostasis.

But in reality, I have seen some sketchy/stupid stuff from docs, crnas, and residents. Having a headphone in one ear, watching sports and YouTube. Taking personal calls and talking loudly on the phone with headphones to change flights (literally WHILE inducing and intubating a patient). And the list can continue. Some people's level of acceptable is... Embarrassing.
Click to expand...

I see no problem with using smartphone if the patient is being adequately monitored. No one expects to be staring at the monitors or patient 100% of the time. Not in any field out there. Pilots don't stare at their instruments 100% of the time.

But I agree that perceptions matter as well.. which is a separate issue. Can't look like a clown when u expect to be taken seriously. Watch those YouTube videos with thr screen turned away from the surgeon
 
coffeebythelake said:
That assumes he will win. I think very unlikely.
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You forget that our legal system freed OJ and has sent over 100 innocent people to death row.

Also

allnurses.com

Settlement in Minnesota

THere will be no press conference scheduled (due to court order) BUT those who have been around awhile will know what I am talking about!!!! There has been a se...
allnurses.com allnurses.com

www.mahanyertl.com

Michigan Doctors Must Pay Out in Anesthesiology Whistleblower Case

Two CRNAs will split a $120,000 reward after filing an anesthesiology whistleblower claim alleging that a Michigan anesthesiology group violated TEFRA and c
www.mahanyertl.com www.mahanyertl.com

www.salemnews.com

Double-booked surgeries lead to $14.6 million settlement

BOSTON (AP) — Massachusetts General Hospital will pay $14.6 million to settle a lawsuit that alleged overbilling for double-booked surgeries that were simultaneously overseen by the same surgeon.
www.salemnews.com www.salemnews.com

www.reuters.com

Hospital, top surgeon to pay $8.5 mln in whistleblower suit over simultaneous surgeries

The University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and the head of its cardiothoracic surgery department have agreed to pay $8.5 million to settle claims that they fraudulently billed Medicare and Medicaid for complex surgeries.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Yes they are all different. But there is considerable risk in a trial.
 
Everyone talking tough about not working with this guy, but he would 100% slap a restraint of trade lawsuit on anyone that did so.
 
caligas said:
Everyone talking tough about not working with this guy, but he would 100% slap a restraint of trade lawsuit on anyone that did so.
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not sure that's how it works my dude. just everyone independently recognizing how this guy is a dbag and don't want to work with him.
u think any of the named anesthesiologists in this lawsuit would ever want to share a room with that guy?
if i was involved i'd tell Dr Khoury to go f@$! himself
 
caligas said:
Everyone talking tough about not working with this guy, but he would 100% slap a restraint of trade lawsuit on anyone that did so.
Click to expand...

Not clear to me. Is he still operating at the same institution that he sued and is staffed by the same anesthesiologists that have an open case with him?
 
caligas said:
Everyone talking tough about not working with this guy, but he would 100% slap a restraint of trade lawsuit on anyone that did so.
Click to expand...
He is free to hire/employ his own CRNA to do all of his cases. I would absolutely refuse to staff his cases. Just cite that it is a patient safety issue when a surgeon is watching my every move/vital sign and not paying attention to actually operating.
 
siednarb said:
Apparently there is a vascular surgeon out in Utah who filed a federal lawsuit against 5 anesthesiologists for using their phone and laptops in the OR during cases - anyone out there in Utah know anything about this?

From the Federal brief:
"Dr. Debenham disputed a power bill over the phone, Dr. Evans shopped online and read the news, Dr. Larson planned an extensive vacation to Lake Powell, Dr. Miner watched football games with headphones in, and Dr. Nelson selected music for and coordinated disc jockey gigs. "

Links:


Click to expand...

I'd straight up refuse to provide anesthesia for this guy. Sounds like an incredibly hostile and standoff-ish work environment he has created. Bottom line is he is likely resentful the anesthesiologist gets to sit and relax while he is standing and scrubbed in for hours. Should have picked a different specialty schmuck.
 
DirtDocMD said:
“Dr. Anesthesiology, are you capable of walking and chewing gum, at the same time??”.

Yes.

Case dismissed.
Click to expand...

You mean the airline pilot can eat food or have personal conversations with his co-pilot while simultaneously flying a jumbo jet? That is outrageous! He shouldn't be doing anything but staring at the instrument clusters for 7 hours straight and if he blinks there needs to be an incident report!
 
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Maz777 said:
He is free to hire/employ his own CRNA to do all of his cases. I would absolutely refuse to staff his cases. Just cite that it is a patient safety issue when a surgeon is watching my every move/vital sign and not paying attention to actually operating.
Click to expand...

U think any cRNA would want to work with someone like him??? Good luck
 
Maz777 said:
He is free to hire/employ his own CRNA to do all of his cases. I would absolutely refuse to staff his cases. Just cite that it is a patient safety issue when a surgeon is watching my every move/vital sign and not paying attention to actually operating.
Click to expand...

Surgeon will argue he is capable of operating while safely looking up away from the field from time to time without compromising patient care. Just make sure you record him when he says it.
 
coffeebythelake said:
not sure that's how it works my dude. just everyone independently recognizing how this guy is a dbag and don't want to work with him.
u think any of the named anesthesiologists in this lawsuit would ever want to share a room with that guy?
if i was involved i'd tell Dr Khoury to go f@$! himself
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I’m not disagreeing with anything you say. Just know if he’s boycotted his first move is a restraint of trade lawsuit against the on staff anesthesiologists.
 
Maz777 said:
He is free to hire/employ his own CRNA to do all of his cases. I would absolutely refuse to staff his cases. Just cite that it is a patient safety issue when a surgeon is watching my every move/vital sign and not paying attention to actually operating.
Click to expand...
I agree but you’ll probably have to say all that in court. This guy is obviously litigious.

It’s a real sticky situation for a group to refuse to work with a surgeon.
 
caligas said:
I’m not disagreeing with anything you say. Just know if he’s boycotted his first move is a restraint of trade lawsuit against the on staff anesthesiologists.
Click to expand...

So if refusing to work with someone on their elective cases is grounds for a lawsuit then I'm sure half the surgeons out there are currently being litigated for the one or two anesthesiologists they refuse to work with for not rushing extubations or for canceling a few of their cases right? Yeah, or not. If someone is a malignant and litigious dingus there is absolutely no legal compulsion to offer them your elective services. The hospital could fire you or your group for not working with him if they wanted, sure. But believing he'd have any real grounds to sue you simply for refusing to put up with his bullshlt is laughable.
 
DazedWanderer said:
So if refusing to work with someone on their elective cases is grounds for a lawsuit then I'm sure half the surgeons out there are currently being litigated for the one or two anesthesiologists they refuse to work with for not rushing extubations or for canceling a few of their cases right? Yeah, or not. If someone is a malignant and litigious dingus there is absolutely no legal compulsion to offer them your elective services. The hospital could fire you or your group for not working with him if they wanted, sure. But believing he'd have any real grounds to sue you simply for refusing to put up with his bullshlt is laughable.
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Not what I’m saying. Obviously there are certain docs that don’t work with others, no biggie.

But yes a group may actually be legally compelled.

If an entire anesthesia group refused to work with a specific surgeon ESPECIALLY if the surgeon is in good standing from clinical standpoint and is known to be litigious (as this surgeon is), he can and and WOULD file suit against the anesthesia group for restraint of trade. I have seen something similar with a surgeon two times in a 20 year career.

Sadly, what our emotions tell us should be right (and don’t get me wrong this guy is an epic douche and deserves to be run out of medicine) is not what plays out under contract, business and employment laws.
 
Dr. Rude said:
Not clear to me. Is he still operating at the same institution that he sued and is staffed by the same anesthesiologists that have an open case with him?
Click to expand...
Yep. Many ways to cancel a case. K+ 3.1? Cancelled. K+ 5.2? Cancelled. Pt chewing gum? Cancelled. Pt thought about food on the way in? Cancelled. You get the drift.
 
caligas said:
Not what I’m saying. Obviously there are certain docs that don’t work with others, no biggie.

But yes a group may actually be legally compelled.

If an entire anesthesia group refused to work with a specific surgeon ESPECIALLY if the surgeon is in good standing from clinical standpoint and is known to be litigious (as this surgeon is), he can and and WOULD file suit against the anesthesia group for restraint of trade. I have seen something similar with a surgeon two times in a 20 year career.

Sadly, what our emotions tell us should be right (and don’t get me wrong this guy is an epic douche and deserves to be run out of medicine) is not what plays out under contract, business and employment laws.
Click to expand...
That’s totally wrong. It’s not an antitrust violation to refuse to work with someone unless you’re trying to monopolize a market. That’s not the case here. You can absolutely blackball a surgeon you don’t want to work with.
 
kidthor said:
That’s totally wrong. It’s not an antitrust violation to refuse to work with someone unless you’re trying to monopolize a market. That’s not the case here. You can absolutely blackball a surgeon you don’t want to work with.
Click to expand...
what does antitrust have to do with this?
 
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