Venting -- don't want to be a doctor anymore

[WaterBum]

2nd yr resident in a sought after program here. I hated my intern year, and told myself things would be better in 2nd yr. They are not. The only thing that gets me through each day is dreaming about the next time I have off so I can do the things I actually enjoy. Medicine sucks. I can't stomach the thought of another month of this, let alone another 22 months of residency. I am not depressed, I just hate my job. Honestly, I can't see myself doing this for a career. I wish I had the guts to leave it all behind.

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[peppy]

What specialty are you in?
Can you think of another career that you would consider more rewarding?

In any case, sorry to hear you're feeling so frustrated.

 

[yaah]

Do you hate medicine itself (whatever field you're in) or do you just hate residency? If it's just residency, then 22 months is a long time but at the same time it's only 22 months. And things generally improve as you move through residency and get more comfortable with policies, procedures, personalities, etc.

If you hate medicine and have experienced enough of what your future career is going to be to know enough, then there probably isn't much point in forcing yourself to do it, unless of course you don't like anything else you could do to earn a living either. I think most people would recommend you just try to finish.

 

[dragonfly99]

Waterbum,
sorry to hear that you are feeling so down.
I think we need a little more information to help you out with this.
What is it that you hate? What is your specialty?
I strongly recommend you not do anything rash. If you really don't like any type of clinical medicine, then you could start thinking about alternative careers, such as things in the business world. In any case you will probably want to finish out your 2nd year in any case, to avoid burning any bridges.
If you are in medicine or pediatrics, I can tell you the beginning of 2nd year can be pretty challenging, since you end up in charge of people under you, etc. and still have some scut work, etc. to deal with on top of it at times. It does get better. If you are 2nd year anesthesiology or surgery, I can imaging things are just heating up...
In any case, if you need to leave, you need more of an exit plan than just "I hate this!".
What is your undergraduate degree in? Is it something that makes you employable?
Do you have lots of student loans to pay off?
All these things may affect your decision.

 

[1 Up]

Are there any other medically related options for him? Public health? Research fellowships? I'm not quite sure what options are available, but it would be good to through them.

 

[deleted50478]

Switch specialties.
I doubt that anyone hated internal medicine more than I did but I love anesthesiology. I'm not saying internal medicine is bad for everyone or that anesthesiology is right for everyone, I'm just saying that hating one specialty doesn't necessarily mean you hate all specialties. Maybe you should try another.

 

[Sleepygator]

I wonder if the OP has considered switching specialties but has not found one that seems appealing enough to switch into. Sounds like the decision they are trying to make is whether to stay in medicine or not.

My advice would be to listen to others' advice, but ultimately this is a decision only you can make for yourself. If you are considering other specialties, talk with folks you trust in those specialties to avoid the "grass is always greener" problem. Also, check out the med-business forum for non-clinical career options.

 

[Joe Richards]

It would be nice for the OP to give some more information about his situation.😕

 

[Leukocyte]

I bet my left nut that the OP is in a general clinical specialty like FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery. No matter how politicaly correct you try to put it, the "generalist specialties" that deal with every mother F@@ken clinical problem the patient has (Family Medicine is the worst here) are the HARDEST. People come with 20 different problems, on 30 medications, and they expect you to solve every thing they have in their 10-15 minute appoitment. Not to mention that these specialties are the "dumping ground" when the specialists do not want to deal with the patients medical problems.
Absolutley terrible.

Yes, yes, every specialty has its own filthy aspect...but the generalist specialties (FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery) seem to be soaked in filth. Not to mention that they get treated with less respect than the specialists.

So the "generalists" see more sh#t, do more work, save more lives, get paid less, and still get treated with a less respect than say a Dermatologist!😱...What a ****y world we live in.🙄

 

[Joe Richards]

I bet my left nut that the OP is in a general clinical specialty like FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery. No matter how politicaly correct you try to put it, the "generalist specialties" that deal with every mother F@@ken clinical problem the patient has (Family Medicine is the worst here) are the HARDEST. People come with 20 different problems, on 30 medications, and they expect you to solve every thing they have in their 10-15 minute appoitment. Not to mention that these specialties are the "dumping ground" when the specialists do not want to deal with the patients medical problems.
Absolutley terrible.

Yes, yes, every specialty has its own filthy aspect...but the generalist specialties (FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery) seem to be soaked in filth. Not to mention that they get treated with less respect than the specialists.

So the "generalists" see more sh#t, do more work, save more lives, get paid less, and still get treated with a less respect than say a Dermatologist!😱...What a ****y world we live in.🙄

You are probably right.
But I would not bet my left nut for anything. Come to think of it I would not bet either of my nuts. 😉

 

[WaterBum]

I bet my left nut that the OP is in a general clinical specialty like FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery.

Ding ding ding ding ding! I am in EM. You can keep your left nut Leukocyte.

Thank you for all of your supportive replies. So far I have resisted the temptation to go to my program and tell them to shove it, but only because I have a sh*tload of loans to pay off and I have no backup career. Business doesn't interest me. Let this be a lesson to those premeds out there. All I can do is take it a day at a time, and remind myself I am almost at the finish line. With all due respect Nolagas, there is no way in hell I'm going to switch to another specialty and start residency all over again. One time is too many.

Tell me one thing: will things be better after residency?

 

[BobA]

Waterbum,

I'm glad that you're willing to open up about a really personal issue like this. And I think you're doing the right thing by planning to finish your residency.

Are you sure you're not depressed? I used to operate a sewer pump - a job anyone would hate - but I didn't hate going to work everyday. Eventhough the job itself sucked, I still enjoyed being around my co-workers and wasn't as bummed out as you sound. With the messed up sleep cycle, trauma cases, endless thankless drunks you see in the ED you've got a lot of reasons to be depressed even if you don't think you are.

Also, I'd encourage you to see a counselor. It's obviously a huge issue, and counselors are used to dealing with this sort of thing.

Finally, I had a little breakdown in med school and was frankly shocked by how supportive my medical school faculty and deans were. There might be more support out there for you than you think right now.

 

[radslooking]

I bet my left nut that the OP is in a general clinical specialty like FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery. No matter how politicaly correct you try to put it, the "generalist specialties" that deal with every mother F@@ken clinical problem the patient has (Family Medicine is the worst here) are the HARDEST. People come with 20 different problems, on 30 medications, and they expect you to solve every thing they have in their 10-15 minute appoitment. Not to mention that these specialties are the "dumping ground" when the specialists do not want to deal with the patients medical problems.
Absolutley terrible.

Yes, yes, every specialty has its own filthy aspect...but the generalist specialties (FM, IM, PEDS, EM, and General Surgery) seem to be soaked in filth. Not to mention that they get treated with less respect than the specialists.

So the "generalists" see more sh#t, do more work, save more lives, get paid less, and still get treated with a less respect than say a Dermatologist!😱...What a ****y world we live in.🙄

That's about right. They should post this on the front door of every medical school in the country. It's the inconvenient truth that no one likes to talk about.

Pay equality would solve about 80% of these issues.

 

[keeping-it-real]

Ding ding ding ding ding! I am in EM. You can keep your left nut Leukocyte.

Thank you for all of your supportive replies. So far I have resisted the temptation to go to my program and tell them to shove it, but only because I have a sh*tload of loans to pay off and I have no backup career. Business doesn't interest me. Let this be a lesson to those premeds out there. All I can do is take it a day at a time, and remind myself I am almost at the finish line. With all due respect Nolagas, there is no way in hell I'm going to switch to another specialty and start residency all over again. One time is too many.

Tell me one thing: will things be better after residency?

Have you considered switching programs? Who you work with everyday can be as much or more impacting than what your actual work is each day. I have had ****ty days in the ER but then when I'm able to vent with some of the attendings, nurses, and fellow residents, it takes some of the edge off.

You say you are at a "sought after" program which likely means you're at a competitive place which also likely means you have a higher intensity group of faculty and colleagues. Do you feel like you fit in? Are you able to vent or talk openly with your co-workers? For me, I'd rather work a harder shift with fun people than an easy shift with a bunch of tight-asses.

The other thing to consider is the type of hospital you're at. If you're in a county setting, the patient population can wear the ever-loving s*** out of you with their disrespect, sense of entitlement, and general lack of consideration or appreciate for the services we provide them. Of course this is painting with a broad brush, but you get my point that not all settings are equally emotionally burdensome.

Hopefully you can find a solution that works, though, because it does suck to have a lot of debt hanging over your head while not enjoying what you do day-to-day.

 

[dragonfly99]

waterbum
it sounds like you are down.
If it's any consolation I don't think you are in the worst medical specialty...by far. However, the ER patient population can be tough to deal with.
I think you shouldn't quit...as you mentioned you have big student loans and probably not a lot of other job skills to help you make the amount of money you'll need to pay them. You are also getting higher up in residency, so hopefully less (or no?) overnight call now. You'll get better and better at what you do. Try to enjoy any aspects of your job that you like. Agree with consideration of seeing a counselor for possible depression (but I'd go outside your university/medical system, being a bit paranoid myself). I got a little depressed in residency and one thing that helped me was to make some friends outside of medicine so that all conversations, etc. didn't revolve around work/the hospital.

Yes, it does get better after residency. Also, you'll get paid twice as much (or more) to do the same work, which does make things better. In your case, if the ER stressed you out, you could potentially work somewhere else that's less intense, like a doc in the box or urgent care, and still make pretty good money. Not sure that many other medical specialties that you could switch to now would be better for you...derm and radiology are cush but each has its own stressed too, and they are pretty impossible to get in to. With ER, you could potentially do a sports med or toxicology fellowship, and get yourself a niche are too...for example, giving out advice on patients who have been poisoned or OD'ed, or working on relatively healthy young athletes, etc.

 

[Faebinder]

Once you are paid more as an attending, you'll develop bad coping skills such as going shopping or on a crazy expensive vacation.... maybe you'll buy a boat you rarely need... or you will start flying a plane..... how about an expensive car?

These bad coping skills will help you resist the severe depression coming from your job stress. Meanwhile.. seek someone to give you some SSRI.

I wish the above was a joke. 😎

 

[LADoc00]

Tell me one thing: will things be better after residency?

Yes. Let me explain...
Typically gobs of $$ will soothe most wounds. If that doesnt help, extra helpings of hookers and blow in Las Vegas are sure to do the trick.

 

[WaterBum]

You say you are at a "sought after" program which likely means you're at a competitive place which also likely means you have a higher intensity group of faculty and colleagues. Do you feel like you fit in? Are you able to vent or talk openly with your co-workers? For me, I'd rather work a harder shift with fun people than an easy shift with a bunch of tight-asses.

Honestly, I don't feel like I fit in at my program, and that may be the biggest problem. SUre, some patients in the ED bug me, but I have attendings that bug me more. Talking to other residents is no help, they all have big plans for after residency and want to keep their head down. I'd love to work with fun people I really get along with, but I'm not going to go to another program if I have to repeat any time. Like I said before, once is enough.

Dragonfly, I thought about urgent care as well, and therein lies my dilemma. With a license, I can do urgent care NOW. Why should I painfully finish residency to do something i can do without residency? Granted, the thought of seeing sore throats or refilling meds day after day doesn't sound at all appealing.

 

[anonymousEM]

Water bum, I'm really sorry to hear you're feeling so down. I finished an EM residency 3 years ago and at this point in my PGY 2 year, I'd spent more time out of the department on off service rotations than actually working in the ED and certainly more time doing floor scut for surgery, medicine and ortho than my own thing in the ED. It took another few months in the ED before the attendings really seemed like they trusted us as second years and gave us some more free reign with our patients. For me, the middle of second year was when things finally started looking brighter.

If you decide that medicine is not for you, best of luck with your future plans. If you decide that you want to stay in EM but don't like it, I suggest you try to finish out the residency. As more and more people finish EM residencies, more and more desirable jobs are going to require board eligibility or certification (ie you finished a residency). I think the worst thing would be to find yourself 10 years down the road pushed out of a job because you aren't Board Certified (it happened where I used to moonlight a year or two ago) and then stuck moving to somewhere you don't want to live to do a job you don't want to do!

Other options, though, that might be more amenable that I've heard of through EM outside of your usual doc in a box stuff that can pay poorly with good side perks to amazingly depending on how you work it...cruiseship med, medical transports (pick up a patient who got sick on their vacation and get them home from abroad), boutique hotel medicine in some bigger cities, consulting for billing and coding, lobbyist

best of luck to you!

 

[LADoc00]

hmm.the botique hotel medicine and cruise ship thing sound very interesting...

imagine being permenantly in residence at the Four Seasons in the Grand Cayman Islands when one of your attendings is pissing you off.

 

[radslooking]

Water bum, I'm really sorry to hear you're feeling so down. I finished an EM residency 3 years ago and at this point in my PGY 2 year, I'd spent more time out of the department on off service rotations than actually working in the ED and certainly more time doing floor scut for surgery, medicine and ortho than my own thing in the ED. It took another few months in the ED before the attendings really seemed like they trusted us as second years and gave us some more free reign with our patients. For me, the middle of second year was when things finally started looking brighter.

If you decide that medicine is not for you, best of luck with your future plans. If you decide that you want to stay in EM but don't like it, I suggest you try to finish out the residency. As more and more people finish EM residencies, more and more desirable jobs are going to require board eligibility or certification (ie you finished a residency). I think the worst thing would be to find yourself 10 years down the road pushed out of a job because you aren't Board Certified (it happened where I used to moonlight a year or two ago) and then stuck moving to somewhere you don't want to live to do a job you don't want to do!

Other options, though, that might be more amenable that I've heard of through EM outside of your usual doc in a box stuff that can pay poorly with good side perks to amazingly depending on how you work it...cruiseship med, medical transports (pick up a patient who got sick on their vacation and get them home from abroad), boutique hotel medicine in some bigger cities, consulting for billing and coding, lobbyist

best of luck to you!

if anyone cares, i decided i'd look up if its free 'rein' or free 'reign'. Apparently the former is correct. Nerd update, terminated.

 

[anonymousEM]

if anyone cares, i decided i'd look up if its free 'rein' or free 'reign'. Apparently the former is correct. Nerd update, terminated.

Thanks for the spelling lesson👍

 

[dragonfly99]

Actually, it's not really true that you can work in urgent care with just a license, at least not in most places. In fact, I looked in to urgent care jobs when I finished medicine residency and the place I asked wouldn't even hire me until I was board certified in internal medicine. It's kind of a liability thing in most cases...they might hire a "board certified" nurse practitioner or PA who is certified by whomever accredits those professions, but not hire a doc because he hadn't finished residency and/or hadn't yet taken his boards. I think job options for docs who didn't finish residency are somewhat limited, so I'd recommend against quitting. I think you should stick it out unless you truly want to leave clinical medicine and have other job prospects.

 

[LADoc00]

Actually, it's not really true that you can work in urgent care with just a license, at least not in most places. In fact, I looked in to urgent care jobs when I finished medicine residency and the place I asked wouldn't even hire me until I was board certified in internal medicine. It's kind of a liability thing in most cases...they might hire a "board certified" nurse practitioner or PA who is certified by whomever accredits those professions, but not hire a doc because he hadn't finished residency and/or hadn't yet taken his boards. I think job options for docs who didn't finish residency are somewhat limited, so I'd recommend against quitting. I think you should stick it out unless you truly want to leave clinical medicine and have other job prospects.

Prison system in California at least is an endless well of opportunity for those who arent board certified, that I do know.

 

[dragonfly99]

Yes but does the OP really want to limit himself to working in a prison or similar environment for the rest of his life? I doubt it.
Also, it is NOT easy to get a medical license in California and I seriously doubt he could get a medical license with only <2 years of residency training.
I'm telling you, medicine is getting more and more and more regulated as the years go by, and it's going to get harder for those who haven't finished residency PLUS passed their board certification exam to get a decent job...
I am on another message board/chat room for doctors and there are posts on there all the time from docs (either US or foreign trained) who somehow never finished their residency and are stuck in some job they don't like and are wanting to get out of it, and/or find a way back in to residency years later, which is almost impossible to do.