Very frustrated... need some advice

[kehlsh]

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This is my first post here and I'm writing to express uneasy feeling that I am having lately.

I come from Asian background with non-spectacular, probably below-average, academic specs... (3.7x cGPA 3.6X sGPA) and I plan to take MCAT this coming April or May. I'm a junior in top 20ish private university. Considering I will probably get around 35ish on MCAT, neither GPA nor MCAT will let me stand out from the rest of applicants.

In addition, I have very few ECs... 1/2 year of research exp, 20 hrs of shadowing cardiologist, TAing some classes, ... that's about it... T.T

As normal cycle of medical school apps is very rapidly approaching, I am 99.9% sure what I have done over past 2.5 years will not get me into medical schools. But recently I came to realize that I’ve been effing up so badly and reached a conclusion that I will work my butt off this coming semester and forward. However, this realization hit me so late that I would probably need an extra year-off to make up all research/volunteer/GPA/other ECs that I haven’t been keeping up over past 2.5 years.

However, my parents think despite what little I have done, if I work hard (cram stuff in) this coming semester and do well on MCAT, they think I can get into medical schools. They have such high expectation of me and I’ve been screwing up entire college career. I am now assiduously looking for ways to make things up, but I just don’t think 1 semester will do a job. And with my parents insisting applying this coming year and being rather adamant about it, it only makes me get more frustrated.

I am pretty sure I can make myself a competitive med school candidate given an extra-year. But how should I convince my parents that I shouldn’t apply this year and taking extra year will be worth it for me?

Thanks for the help... seriously appreciated.

 

[avksx]

I know this sounds obvious... but have you tried just sitting down and explaining this to them?

 

[DirtyJustice]

This is my first post here and I'm writing to express uneasy feeling that I am having lately.

I come from Asian background with non-spectacular, probably below-average, academic specs... (3.7x cGPA 3.6X sGPA) and I plan to take MCAT this coming April or May. I'm a junior in top 20ish private university. Considering I will probably get around 35ish on MCAT, neither GPA nor MCAT will let me stand out from the rest of applicants.

In addition, I have very few ECs... 1/2 year of research exp, 20 hrs of shadowing cardiologist, TAing some classes, ... that's about it... T.T

As normal cycle of medical school apps is very rapidly approaching, I am 99.9% sure what I have done over past 2.5 years will not get me into medical schools. But recently I came to realize that I’ve been effing up so badly and reached a conclusion that I will work my butt off this coming semester and forward. However, this realization hit me so late that I would probably need an extra year-off to make up all research/volunteer/GPA/other ECs that I haven’t been keeping up over past 2.5 years.

However, my parents think despite what little I have done, if I work hard (cram stuff in) this coming semester and do well on MCAT, they think I can get into medical schools. They have such high expectation of me and I’ve been screwing up entire college career. I am now assiduously looking for ways to make things up, but I just don’t think 1 semester will do a job. And with my parents insisting applying this coming year and being rather adamant about it, it only makes me get more frustrated.

I am pretty sure I can make myself a competitive med school candidate given an extra-year. But how should I convince my parents that I shouldn’t apply this year and taking extra year will be worth it for me?

Thanks for the help... seriously appreciated.

YOU are the one applying to medical school NOT them. When you feel that you are ready to apply, that is when you should.

 

[Mitch556]

ha how did you come to the estimate of your mcat score?

 

[Mayssy]

Unless you're trying to get into a top 20 med school, with 3.7 and a 35 you probably don't need to wait a year but you shouldn't apply until you're ready because you may screw up your chance just from lack of confidence

 

[randombetch]

ha how did you come to the estimate of your mcat score?

What, it's that hard to gauge how smart you are relative to other premeds?

If most students with a 3.8 BCMP from school X attain 33-37 in a uniform distribution, and you have a 3.8 BCMP, then the best estimator of your MCAT score with that information alone is the average.

 

[avksx]

GPA and MCAT scores are usually pretty synchronized. The higher your GPA, the more likely you are to do well on your MCAT. It's not as though the two are totally unrelated.

 

[Drexon]

You might have decent stats [assuming you do well on the MCAT] to possibly make it to an interview. But it's not going to be a cake walk.
They'll drill you with questions like why weren't you more involved? Why didn't you do X,Y, and Z. Keep in mind that there are literally hundreds of other applicants more qualified than you based on their stats and their EC. I don't to put you down but I'm being realistic. These EC are suppose to show that you can balance school and life. They're suppose to show leadership, teamwork, and dedication to a cause [joining a prehealth club for 6 months doesn't show great dedication. I'm talking about min 1 year.]
Don't apply until you feel like you're ready to apply or else it's a waste of money and a drain on your self esteem.
But to be honest some schools might overlook the EC if you can explain yourself but like Mayssy said you probably won't be getting into HYP etc.

 

[Ischemic]

Hey man, your stats are pretty decent so don't be too hard on yourself. All that EC/research/etc... that's all BS and is more icing on the cake than anything. As long as you've done something and can talk about it in a coherent manner -- tying it in to why you wanna be a doc -- you'll be fine. Don't believe everything you hear on SDN. Contrary to popular belief, med school admissions is a big crapshoot, there're no fast and hard things you can do to get in. You just gotta do your best and hope for the best but apply smart, meaning cast a wide net. Don't just aim at top 20 schools, do state schools and stuff too. They all teach the same stuff and it really is what you do while in school that matters. With your stats, I would venture a guess that you'll probably get 3-4+ interviews if you apply to 15-20 schools. That GPA and MCAT score? It's just getting the foot in the door, but once in you gotta impress on the interview otherwise no amount of good stats can save you.

To the question of your parents forcing you to apply. Considering your situation, I'd wait and apply senior year and take the year off to improve research or whatever area you feel like improving. Also, it's a good break from school and it'll refresh you once you do get in. Med school application process is long and EXPENSIVE, so save youself the emotional and monetary burdens of applying early when you're not ready and do it when you feel comfortable. This'll make your interview mindset better otherwise it'll come across as you lacking confidence, immature, etc and the interviewer will smell it. That being said, good luck.

 

[bravofleet4]

My parents were exactly the same way. I applied as a senior this cycle. As a junior I was undecided about medicine but I also realized I just didn't have that impressive of a resume. I decided to take a year off and focused on improving my EC's my senior year. Occasionally my mom would say that she just didn't understand why I didn't just apply my junior year. I was a little surprised as usually my mom is the more supportive parent. To be honest, I think many parents think that if you fail you can always try again no worse, but that's completely the wrong attitude to take I think. You should go in prepared.

Anyway I think my parents have completely changed their tune. After getting back rejection letters from most of the UC's without even an offer for an interview my mom has started saying that getting into medical school is an incredibly hard process and she's so happy that I got in. Ironically, it's me now who's saying that despite having already 1 acceptance I think I deserve more for my stats.

I think part of it stems from having parents that came from a different culture (not necessarily Asian but it can apply to Europeans as well) where EC's aren't weighed at all in the admissions process but considered fluff. American universities are very unique in the whole wide world for emphasizing balanced individuals.

http://shenzhenundercover.blogspot.com/2007/06/chinese-college-entrance-examination.html

"Unlike the U.S., where standardized test scores are just one factor weighed by universities, how Chinese students do on the "gaokao" determines everything. Students list their top three schools and their major and hope their score is high enough to win a place.
Extracurricular activities do not count, and neither do high school grades. And forget writing about volunteer work; there are no essays to persuade admissions officers."
​

It's times like these I'm extremely grateful to be in the U.S. Although I'm Asian, I'm not certain I could last over there. I work hard but I'm no genius. At the same time, I really value my volunteer experiences.

 

[bravofleet4]

double post

 

[bravofleet4]

triple post

 

[kehlsh]

ha how did you come to the estimate of your mcat score?

28-31 is the range of scores that I got from 3 AAMC practice exams and I figured given the amount of time I will spend on studying MCAT I will gain 5-6 points increase over next few months.

 

[kehlsh]

Thank you bravofleet4, Ischemic, Drexon, Mayssy, DirtyJustice, avksx for your input.

As you guys mentioned, I think applying this coming cycle will make emotional, monetary burden for me.

I also know it's ME who's applying so I should do whatever I need to do for medical admissions but I can't just ignore my parents input as they have been supportive to me all my life. I have "tried" to sit down and talk to my parents before and they said I will not be that much better off with an extra year off. But maybe I should talk to them in a more serious manner after this coming semester where I will prove them I can be much better off in terms of specs and self-esteem given more time. That being said, I will work toward getting 4.0, getting a decent MCAT score, and doing a lot of ECs this semester. Hopefully then they will understand. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=300425 http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=300425​

 

[z31]

Try showing them a site like mdapps? I think you will get in somewhere...what you and your parents might more precisely want to know is what 'tier' you'll be likely to get into if you apply this year versus next year. Also, if you can get advice from a health career advising office and draw up a hypothetical battle plan, they might respond favorably to having some concrete ideas.

It's reaalllyy nice that you have this relationship with your parents, by the way! I think some people buckle under the pressure of involved/supportive parents, but it sounds like you appreciate them even while asserting yourself where you're sure.

 

[s1lver]

But how should I convince my parents that I shouldn't apply this year and taking extra year will be worth it for me?

I'm Asian too so I understand the parent pressure (I mean, I told them I would take one less class this coming Spring semester and my mom went on a 3 hour speech trying to convince me otherwise :/). What I would do in your case is to sit down with them and really explain why you need to take a year off (you need more ECs etc. and not just good GPA/MCAT to get into med school). Maybe write down a few reasons or two before talking with them so you're prepared.

 

[thamsenman]

This is my first post here and I'm writing to express uneasy feeling that I am having lately.

I come from Asian background with non-spectacular, probably below-average, academic specs... (3.7x cGPA 3.6X sGPA) and I plan to take MCAT this coming April or May. I'm a junior in top 20ish private university. Considering I will probably get around 35ish on MCAT, neither GPA nor MCAT will let me stand out from the rest of applicants.

In addition, I have very few ECs... 1/2 year of research exp, 20 hrs of shadowing cardiologist, TAing some classes, ... that's about it... T.T

As normal cycle of medical school apps is very rapidly approaching, I am 99.9% sure what I have done over past 2.5 years will not get me into medical schools. But recently I came to realize that I’ve been effing up so badly and reached a conclusion that I will work my butt off this coming semester and forward. However, this realization hit me so late that I would probably need an extra year-off to make up all research/volunteer/GPA/other ECs that I haven’t been keeping up over past 2.5 years.

However, my parents think despite what little I have done, if I work hard (cram stuff in) this coming semester and do well on MCAT, they think I can get into medical schools. They have such high expectation of me and I’ve been screwing up entire college career. I am now assiduously looking for ways to make things up, but I just don’t think 1 semester will do a job. And with my parents insisting applying this coming year and being rather adamant about it, it only makes me get more frustrated.

I am pretty sure I can make myself a competitive med school candidate given an extra-year. But how should I convince my parents that I shouldn’t apply this year and taking extra year will be worth it for me?

Thanks for the help... seriously appreciated.

Um...question. What about a 35 won't make you stand out? You might not stand out at Harvard, but at less competitive schools you surely will. I got a 34, and am having some luck. Lot of rejections too but you know how it goes.

 

[thamsenman]

28-31 is the range of scores that I got from 3 AAMC practice exams and I figured given the amount of time I will spend on studying MCAT I will gain 5-6 points increase over next few months.

You'll probably do phenomenally well. I got a 22 five days before the actual MCAT and did okay. Not great but okay.

 

[halekulani]

grow some balls man

you have a 3.7 gpa
get a good mcat, start volunteering 4hrs/week at a hospital, and you're set

the quantity of your ECs don't matter
you're still a junior - you can do stuff over the summer then just send schools an update letter on that. your stats alone will draw secondaries (assuming your mcat is 30+)

 

[homestar]

Um...question. What about a 35 won't make you stand out? You might not stand out at Harvard, but at less competitive schools you surely will. I got a 34, and am having some luck. Lot of rejections too but you know how it goes.

It is only an opinion, but I agree with these folks. I think that you are being too hard on yourself. I think that your stats are great! I don't believe (again, I am no authority) that there is such thing as a "perfect application." Type A personalities are probably commonplace among pre-meds, but I don't believe that perfectionism is the way to go here.

I'm worse off than you are (I have some spotty grades in my transcript), and I decided to enroll in Tulane's MS program in Cellular and Molecular Biology. It's a one year program and only costs $22,000. Maybe you should look at programs like these to give you an edge on your application, if you're still worried.

There can also be drawbacks to this line of thinking. I started a Master's at Harvard in hopes that it would improve my chances, and ended up with a professor that *REALLY* didn't like me. I ended up with a C- (unfairly, I believe), and it cost me $5,000 of my own money.

Best of luck!

 

[rmbsstock]

out

 

[lakerzfan36]

what IS IT with asian parents!!!!

 

[LizzyM]

With a 35 you would have a very good shot of matriculating somewhere. With a 28-29, not so good but still better than average.

See http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-a-mcatgpagridasian.pdf

 

[FloatOn]

Thank you bravofleet4, Ischemic, Drexon, Mayssy, DirtyJustice, avksx for your input.​

As you guys mentioned, I think applying this coming cycle will make emotional, monetary burden for me.​

I also know it's ME who's applying so I should do whatever I need to do for medical admissions but I can't just ignore my parents input as they have been supportive to me all my life. I have "tried" to sit down and talk to my parents before and they said I will not be that much better off with an extra year off. But maybe I should talk to them in a more serious manner after this coming semester where I will prove them I can be much better off in terms of specs and self-esteem given more time. That being said, I will work toward getting 4.0, getting a decent MCAT score, and doing a lot of ECs this semester. Hopefully then they will understand.​

I think the "emotional" part of applying is key and should not be ignored. It takes a lot of patience and confidence. Unconditional support from the people around you certainly makes the process easier.

Have you thought about what would actually happen if you don't apply next year? It's not like they can fill out and submit your AMCAS for you. Even with or without their help, it is ultimately in your hands. I don't know about this approach, but maybe you could scare them into letting you take a year off. Using mdapps or stories from friends, tell them about people with your stats and in a similar situation and how they didn't get in because they rushed into it. Ask them, Do you want me to get into med school or not!? That should probably do it.

Best of luck to you!

 

[kehlsh]

Thank you all for the responses.

The probable reason I was so loosened up last couple years is that I did not realize the importance of ECs until very recently. I always held ECs for later thinking I will have plenty of time to make up for it... and it has reached to this coming last term... T.T (Other than this, I had too much fun hanging out with friends going out to karaoke drinking playing starcraft, sports, etc.)

I have secured one volunteer position for next school term as well as some interviews for medical research. In addition, I am pretty sure I can get 3.9+ this coming term if I don't cram for exams 2 days before as I always have done. I will do my best this semester and possibly apply to very few medical schools if I get satisfactory results.

 

[FuturaDocta]

lol

I like how the OP mentioned Asian parents right away

 

[bravofleet4]

I have similar background as the Asian culture. In, my culture education is number one too. Also respecting your parents is the most important thing in this world. Also, having work ethics is very important part of both of the Asian culture and mine. Now, I apologize if I am repeating anything that was posted before me (I just skimmed over the previous posts). What I want to say to you, what made decide recently that it is important to work on getting yourself in medical school? Who has been paying for your school all this time? Do you really want to go to medical school?
If you truly want to be a doctor, then you should do the work on becoming one now with the time that is left NOT to take an extra year to prepare.
You should not blame your parents if they become upset, since you should have been very clear and honest from the beginning.
I am like you sometimes I feel ready to explode from frustration cause I feel my parent's control and guilt like a rope around my neck, choking me, and killing me. However, honestly when you talk to them this time, I want you to know it is YOUR responsibility and fault. Since you want to become a doctor, you need to admit your shortcomings and fix them. You took the time long enough but did not use it wisely, and if they payed for your schooling, then you did not use their money wisely. They might also see it that you did not give them an accurate picture on what is going with you so far, so they think that you are ready to go to school now. I guess I played the blame game on you earlier (got it from my family 🙂) but honestly, now it does not matter who did what, what matters is getting you to reach your goals. No. 1 Tell your parents and take responsibility.
I hope I am making sense, if not just ignore me.
with all my respect

I like this quote only that it may have inadvertently brought up an important point which is that asian culture or not no matter what happens you cannot blame your parents for anything. Ultimately, everyone will say they did not force you to do anything. You make your own choices. There are some times I wanted to blame my parents for things. Usually my argument was along the lines of them guilting me and they should know that I never wanted to do certain things (like driving back home every weekend when I should be staying the dorms where I could better study) but they would always say well you should've mentioned something and we never forced you to. It was always such BS I thought (since my brother was going to the same college with a mental disorder and my mother kept saying he wouldn't come home unless I did) but you do have to learn when you can afford to acquiesce to your parents wishes and when to make a stand.

If you don't get in following your parent's advice there's not going to be a sweet moment of "See I told you." You're just going to end up depressed and sad. Whatever you do it has to be your own choice.

I would just like to add that parent's are really uninformed about the whole process. EC's aside. My dad kept pushing me to get into state schools to get lower in-state tuition but then simultaneously told me to apply to safety schools (which are very expensive) rather than just schools that had a class with similar stats to mine. The only thing my dad ever mentioned specifically about a medical school was that I should take an extra math course in college to make sure I was eligible to get into UCLA medical school b/c they were the cheapest. I would say it's not entirely selfish to not want to apply to medical school if you feel unprepared, it costs so much to do it emotionally, financially, and physically. If you decide to wait a year, how much more money is it going to cost your parents? Room and board? If you only get into a safety school you'll pay 70,000-80,000 per year rather than just 45,000-66,000. But hey anything is worth it to become a doctor right? The only problem is you could've done a lot better.

 

[godcyning]

Okay, so I'm a senior at a top 20 with similar stats/ec's to you (38 mcat). I'm 2 for 2 on interview acceptances, and I have a couple more interviews upcoming. So no, it's not impossible to get interviews and to get accepted with non-trad EC's (by sdn standards). I've never been grilled harshly on my ec's (i.e. in a way that's irrecoverable for anyone but the best interviewees / con artists), though all my interviews have been quite laid back. Remember though, personal statement and letters of rec can also do a lot. I have to say I had a pretty unique PS that does not have universal appeal, but definitely made me stand out to certain people...or so I'd like to think.

What I would NOT do if I were you is jump in right now and try to cram EC's. That's just gonna stress you out, possibly hurt your gpa and make you more unhappy and not that much better a candidate (sudden spurt of volunteering leading up to app time can look suspicious...). That's not to say don't do EC's now, but think carefully about whether it's something you are doing to get into medschool or something you actually want to do.

Also, it's not impossible to think of ways to unify your ec's...did you really enjoy being a TA? Tutoring people? I mean, if you really are passionate about teaching then make that your thing, and show it in your PS and interviews. It's not an excuse for not having more clinical, but it's one place where you can be genuine, which is a separate but still very important thing to convey, and which can go a long way if you articulate it well.

Another thing...you need to do better than average on the mcat, by a respectable margin. Your ec's won't stand out, and if your mcat doesn't either then you probably won't have enough going for you.

 

[riverjib]

28-31 is the range of scores that I got from 3 AAMC practice exams and I figured given the amount of time I will spend on studying MCAT I will gain 5-6 points increase over next few months.

If you do well under pressure, a 35 is not out of reach. However, you should expect to score slightly lower than your best practice score.

 

[vin5cent0]

If a 3.7/35 won't get you into medical school, I might as well just quit
​

 

[ILikeDrugs]

I come from Asian background with non-spectacular, probably below-average, academic specs... (3.7x cGPA 3.6X sGPA)

I stopped reading at this point because I was convinced that this post would be full of whining. 🙄

 

[s1lver]

If a 3.7/35 won't get you into medical school, I might as well just quit
​

Maybe he's related to this guy?