Very inconsistent student - looking to get into Georgetown SMP

[heatmist]

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Long story short, I have been a MAJOR f--k up in college. Through 6 years of college, I have dropped out plenty of times and have received 4 F's; all in science courses. 2 F's in the last semester. I am not in college this semester as I needed to get a hold of personal issues. I have completed 100 credit hours. My GPA right now stands at 3.1.

But after hitting rock bottom last year, I am DETERMINED to prove myself. I WAS a great student back in HS, and I miss that person. I need to get into Georgetown for 2 reasons - (A) it is the best SMP program and (B) the love of my life, my girlfriend, is moving out to DC to start her PhD in the fall of 2010.

I have every incentive and drive in me to NOT be a f--k up anymore. My plan is over the next year, finish my degree, and get perfect 4.0s in both semesters, score a good MCAT by summer 2011 (what should I shoot for to get into GTown?), build good relationships with professors in my classes in the upcoming year to get strong recommendations, and get in some volunteer time at local hospitals. I realize this is all hypothetical, but this will be DONE. I know it! So, if I were to do all this, and apply to the program for the 2012-2013, what would be my chances based only over one year of hypothetical great work? I need honesty, guys. Tell me how can I insure getting into GTown? What say you guys?

Between graduating from college in May 2011 and hopefully starting GTown SMP in fall 2012, I'll take a year off and work in DC to be close to the girlfriend. And if I do attend GTown SMP, I know I'll be one of those students who are almost guaranteed to get into GTown Med because (A) I have every incentive to not f--k up a clean sheet when it coems to my academic career, (B) I have every incentive to stay in DC to be close to my girlfriend and get married to her eventually, and (C) I know I'm very intelligent that when I do study hard, I always place top (I was the valedictorian in my HS and got many full scholarships to many colleges).

 

[jslo85]

Long story short, I have been a MAJOR f--k up in college. Through 6 years of college, I have dropped out plenty of times and have received 4 F's; all in science courses. 2 F's in the last semester. I am not in college this semester as I needed to get a hold of personal issues. I have completed 100 credit hours. My GPA right now stands at 3.1.

But after hitting rock bottom last year, I am DETERMINED to prove myself. I WAS a great student back in HS, and I miss that person. I need to get into Georgetown for 2 reasons - (A) it is the best SMP program and (B) the love of my life, my girlfriend, is moving out to DC to start her PhD in the fall of 2010.

I have every incentive and drive in me to NOT be a f--k up anymore. My plan is over the next year, finish my degree, and get perfect 4.0s in both semesters, score a good MCAT by summer 2011 (what should I shoot for to get into GTown?), build good relationships with professors in my classes in the upcoming year to get strong recommendations, and get in some volunteer time at local hospitals. I realize this is all hypothetical, but this will be DONE. I know it! So, if I were to do all this, and apply to the program for the 2012-2013, what would be my chances based only over one year of hypothetical great work? I need honesty, guys. Tell me how can I insure getting into GTown? What say you guys?

Between graduating from college in May 2011 and hopefully starting GTown SMP in fall 2012, I'll take a year off and work in DC to be close to the girlfriend.

Hi and welcome to SDN.

I take it you want my honest opinion.

You're not ready and it's not only a stretch for you to aim at Georgetown SMP but I honestly believe you aren't going to succeed and what is probably even worse is that getting into medical school after that is even more of a long shot.

If you were desperate to get into medicine you would not include (B) as an option to even consider. You realistically only have one option, which is get your life back together and realize what you really want to do and start doing some very realistic thinking on how you are going to get there.

If that's not what you want to hear then let's look at facts. I somehow find it slightly hard to believe your cumulative GPA is a 3.1 after receiving 4 Fs and dropping out multiple times but let's roll with it. Your sGPA is probably sub 3.0, more likely 2.5 region? (correct me if i'm wrong).

Most SMP programs will only look at applicants if they pass a certain minimum cGPA and sGPA. I would say it's safe to assume you probably need a 3.2-3.3 with an MCAT of 31-32+ for Georgetown SMP. Certain danger flashes will certainly go off though when they review your file and see "multiple drop outs" within a period of six years as well as the string of Fs. The reasoning will most likely be, if he quits that often in UG and failed basic prereqs, then what can we assume he can do in our medical school level coursework in the program?

I don't know if you've taken a peek at the Gtown thread currently in SDN but if it's any indication, there are people (e.g. Haplo) who currently are waitlisted at medical schools while having an excellent (3.75+) performance in the SMP with decent MCAT scores. It's just not a guaranteed thing that you will get in anywhere even when performing at a high level against that of 179 other OCDish pre-meds.

Can it be done? Certainly. Can you do it? Possibly. Over 1 year? Very improbable even if all the hypotheticals miraculously come about. I'd take it one step at a time and start doing some honest to God introspective thinking by yourself and realize why you truly want to do medicine. I was trying to be realistic and as honest as possible so I apologize if this post came out too negative.

 

[deleted248403]

+1 for what jslo said

4Fs and your GPA is a 3.1? I find that hard to believe.

The repeated drop outs aren't going to help your case either, and there is no reason (that you have posted) to suggest you are magically going to transform from a B student at best and a non-student/F-student TO a magical 4.0 non-drop out student.

 

[heatmist]

I'm here for a reason. To get honest opinions from forum members about my situation. In order to facilitate that, I HAVE to be honest myself.

So, some facts...

Yes, my GPA is indeed a 3.1, with 4 Fs. I don't know what is my sGPA but it very likely is a 2.5. I do have multiple dropouts. But in between them, I also have semesters where I performed brilliantly and thus my 3.1 GPA. I have been pretty inconsistent.

I have been through quite a bit in these last few years when it comes to personal issues, hence the dropouts. Just to give you a taste, how would you react if you received constant legit death threats because of who you are? There was some serious depression going on. Either way, all of it is behind me now. I have been through some serious therapy. And I KNOW that I am a different person now and I KNOW that I can CONSISTENTLY be brilliant.

As far as the girlfriend...she has nothing to do with me wanting to get into medicine. Yes, if we weren't together, I would be open to applying to every other SMP. But you can bet that I want to go to GTown, even if it means starting the program even a year later than I would like to (say two years between college graduation and starting SMP).

And I know that the next year will be good academically. You have every right to question if I will be able to do it or not. But, I'm asking to please just assume that I can have this "magical" turnaround. So, if I am able to, then what are my chances? If you believe, that even after all these hypothetical successes in one year, I have no shot at the next admission cycle at GTown, well then that is your opinion and I respect that. I may not like what I hear, but I need to get some honest replies. Then the question becomes...what do I have to do academically to get into GTown SMP in the next admission cycle?

 

[heatmist]

Hi and welcome to SDN.

I take it you want my honest opinion.

You're not ready and it's not only a stretch for you to aim at Georgetown SMP but I honestly believe you aren't going to succeed and what is probably even worse is that getting into medical school after that is even more of a long shot.

If you were desperate to get into medicine you would not include (B) as an option to even consider. You realistically only have one option, which is get your life back together and realize what you really want to do and start doing some very realistic thinking on how you are going to get there.

If that's not what you want to hear then let's look at facts. I somehow find it slightly hard to believe your cumulative GPA is a 3.1 after receiving 4 Fs and dropping out multiple times but let's roll with it. Your sGPA is probably sub 3.0, more likely 2.5 region? (correct me if i'm wrong).

Most SMP programs will only look at applicants if they pass a certain minimum cGPA and sGPA. I would say it's safe to assume you probably need a 3.2-3.3 with an MCAT of 31-32+ for Georgetown SMP. Certain danger flashes will certainly go off though when they review your file and see "multiple drop outs" within a period of six years as well as the string of Fs. The reasoning will most likely be, if he quits that often in UG and failed basic prereqs, then what can we assume he can do in our medical school level coursework in the program?

I don't know if you've taken a peek at the Gtown thread currently in SDN but if it's any indication, there are people (e.g. Haplo) who currently are waitlisted at medical schools while having an excellent (3.75+) performance in the SMP with decent MCAT scores. It's just not a guaranteed thing that you will get in anywhere even when performing at a high level against that of 179 other OCDish pre-meds.

Can it be done? Certainly. Can you do it? Possibly. Over 1 year? Very improbable even if all the hypotheticals miraculously come about. I'd take it one step at a time and start doing some honest to God introspective thinking by yourself and realize why you truly want to do medicine. I was trying to be realistic and as honest as possible so I apologize if this post came out too negative.

Thanks for the reply, jslo85.

I want to get into medicine. And I very much want to get into GTown SMP to be close to my girlfriend. If one year of miraculous work won't cut it, then what do I do to be there in two years?

 

[deleted248403]

And I know that the next year will be good academically. You have every right to question if I will be able to do it or not. But, I'm asking to please just assume that I can have this "magical" turnaround. So, if I am able to, then what are my chances? If you believe, that even after all these hypothetical successes in one year, I have no shot at the next admission cycle at GTown, well then that is your opinion and I respect that. I may not like what I hear, but I need to get some honest replies. Then the question becomes...what do I have to do academically to get into GTown SMP in the next admission cycle?

I, personally, feel that the key in this whole process is the magical turnaround, and thus I'm going to keep harping on it. You are trying to base getting into Gtown based on something that seems FAR from certain and thus everything else becomes a bit pointless to speculate on.

Everyone is sure that they can become a 4.0 student and it doesn't happen. Like everyone is sure they can get a 35+ on the MCAT and yet something like 7% of ppl actually do

 

[theWUbear]

I was sure I could become a 4.0 student and get a 33+ MCAT, after graduating with a 2.6 and a 25 MCAT....and I did...sorry 3.9 (just stating it to give op a little hope, but he seems capable anyway based on his GPA 4 F's notwithstanding)

You are starting with a 3.1 GPA. If you do well this year and get a strong MCAT, you'll be below the cutoff points for Gtown SMP. Everyone needs a dose of reality, and that's what the very knowledgeable robflanker has attempted to give you, but on the other hand members of Adcoms have told me that even at MD schools, "forgiveness is possible". You need multiple successive years of academic success, a great MCAT, and a humble, apologetic attitude toward your prior academic failure that shows that you learned from your mistakes.

On another note, since your chances at Gtown SMP are probably still going to be slim, you might want to consider doing a post-bacc year at a DC college if you don't get in. During this time, get at/near 4.0 again while keeping in touch with gtown SMP admissions. Go get 'em.

 

[deleted248403]

Wubear - good work on your situation; it def sounds like you are turning it around. My point is for every person like you that does it - there are countless people who don't turn it around. Everyone thinks they are that one but in reality not everyone is.
OP - I am not saying you can't turn it around but let's not put the cart before the horse; you need your turn around first.

 

[heatmist]

Wubear - good work on your situation; it def sounds like you are turning it around. My point is for every person like you that does it - there are countless people who don't turn it around. Everyone thinks they are that one but in reality not everyone is.
OP - I am not saying you can't turn it around but let's not put the cart before the horse; you need your turn around first.

robflanker,

I understand where you're coming from. I do realize that many people do fail to turnaround their situation.

But that is exactly what I'm here for. I'm looking for some guidance from you guys. I'm trying to figure out this treacherous road, even though we ARE speculating far into it. It seems that even a fabulous year won't cut it at GTown SMP. Fine. This is my sucky situation and I accept it. But how do I proceed after the upcoming year? WuBear mentioned getting into a post-bacc program (BTW, thanks for helping me be a little hopeful about my situation, WuBear). Could I actually start a post-bacc program right after I finish college (taking no year off in the middle). Or do I wait an entire year, work, and based on one-year of fabulous academic record try and get into a post-bacc program in DC that will accept me? Are there any such programs in DC? And if I do a great job at the post-bacc, do I then shoot to get into GTown SMP or should I actually try straight applying into medical school at GTown?

 

[kytrona]

Have you considered the new GeorgeSquared program? http://georgesquared.com/ My situation is a bit similar to yours, and that was one of the options given to my by the SMP Program Director.

 

[theWUbear]

Heatmist: Look at the faq for more information about post-baccs. Briefly: you can just sign up for available classes at pretty much any university and that is deemed "post-bacc" work because you already have a bachelors degree and its undergrad. Signing up as a second degree student, which is often advantageous, would require going through the undergraduate admissions office. You can do it right after graduating. I would start contacting schools in the DC area immediately if this is for next fall.

 

[thepoopologist]

heatmist, the key is to shoot for the perfect score and accept whatever you get. Your plan is a reasonable two year plan but I don't see it happening within a year. You could be an exception but people usually do not go from total academic ****up to 4.0 students on the spot. But by all means, test the waters that first semester back and see if what you're planning is doable or not. That is the only way to find out where your present capabilities lie. Then readjust, readjust, readjust until it works. Make sure you cover all the prereqs and retake any science classes you totally bombed.

No matter what kind of reassurances you get on this site about your "chances," my advice is to do the best you can, take the MCAT, apply, and you either get in or you don't. If you don't, then it's another year of classes and volunteer work and reapplying. That is the reality of it. I hope you've put some thought into it and this isn't a gut reaction to keep your girlfriend. Medical school, at least the first two years, is hours of studying. More than you could possibly imagine. It is almost, ALMOST as bad as trying to recover from a mediocre undergrad gpa and getting into med school. Been there, done that.

You seem set on DC. I'm telling you if in a year or two you are statistically within reach of SMPs or med schools that applying to just DC schools isn't going to do it. You need to think about that when the time comes.

Goodluck to you.

 

[imrep1972]

Thanks for the reply, jslo85.

I want to get into medicine. And I very much want to get into GTown SMP to be close to my girlfriend. If one year of miraculous work won't cut it, then what do I do to be there in two years?

Heatmist,

You've gotten a lot of good feeback on here. I just want to add my perspective.

I was a f-up in college too. I didn't have four F's, but I did have several D's. My overall GPA was sub 3.0 and so was my Sci GPA. One thing that *might* explain your 3.1 GPA - do you realize when you calculate your GPA for medical school (and the SMP) that if you retook any of those F's (or any other classes) the new grade does NOT replace your 'F' - you have to average them. That was a shock to me when I had to calculate my GPA and I went from a 3.2 to well below a 3.0.

Anyway, the SMP loves people who have turned their life around. They love people who have the ability to be doctors, screwed up, figured out their mistake and now have their stuff together. *IF* you can get straight A's (you can *maybe* afford ONE B) over the next year, you could potentially demonstrate you have figured things out. What's really going to carry your application is going to be your MCAT score. You will need, probably, in excess of a 35. The MCAT is considered the best predictor of success in medical school and a score that is 2+ SD's above the mean would show that you really do have that potential.

All that being said, if you do get the 4.0, and you do get the 35+, you are still going to have work to do. Anyone who looks at your transcript and sees the inconsistency you apparently have is going to want to know: A: what happened (in detail, likely) and B: why is it different now (again, in detail, likely.) You are probably going to have to be in close contact with the SMP admin from the moment you submit your application. Demonstrate your sincerity and determination, and get in front of someone to plead your case. If/when you do meet with the SMP admins, I would *NOT* mention that you want to be in DC because of your GF. That would be seen as a sign that you are not serious about this, and could be considered a major distraction, actually.

You have left yourself VERY little room for any error. You will have a long road ahead of you, but if it is something you really want, work for it and you will have a chance. If you do all this, but still don't get accepted to Gtown, you have a few options:

1. Do a Post-Bac (this is what I had to do because my undergrad GPA was so poor) for another year - you will need a 4.0 or close to it. The biggest red flag in your app is likely to be your inconsistency. Even with a 4.0 in this coming year, the SMP admins may be wary that you will fall back into your old patterns. After *two* years of 4.0, you will have a very strong case that you have figured out your problems.

2. Go to a different SMP. This may be difficult to accept if you are dying to be in DC for your GF. However, if you really want to go to med school, it is worth considering. It is only one year, and the fact is, if you are successful applying to medical school, there is every reason to think that you would get into med school somewhere other than DC too. You may have to be distant from your GF for a while to achieve your dream. Many of my friends have had to do this. It is tough, but doable.

3. Go to the carribean. This is really not a bad option. I have met many doctors from the carribean. There is a stigma that they have to overcome, but many of them are outstanding doctors (some, because of that very stigma - they work harder than anyone else to overcome it.) It is generally easier to gain admittance to those programs and you will not have to wait the year for the SMP and the (sometimes) glide year afterward.

Good luck to you. Aside from maintaining the 4.0 and getting the great MCAT (all easier said than done) keep in close contact with the SMP admins. They will give you great advice also.

 

[thomyorke]

OP: " I want to get into medicine. And I very much want to get into GTown SMP to be close to my girlfriend. If one year of miraculous work won't cut it, then what do I do to be there in two years? "

Hahaha from what I've heard about Georgetown SMP, you won't have time for a girlfriend buddy. At least not one who isn't in SMP with you...

 

[thomyorke]

Have you considered the new GeorgeSquared program? http://georgesquared.com/ My situation is a bit similar to yours, and that was one of the options given to my by the SMP Program Director.

Georgetown also has a Pharmacology program and one other Master's program which are designed for pre-meds.

 

[Crisco]

OP: " I want to get into medicine. And I very much want to get into GTown SMP to be close to my girlfriend. If one year of miraculous work won't cut it, then what do I do to be there in two years? "

Hahaha from what I've heard about Georgetown SMP, you won't have time for a girlfriend buddy. At least not one who isn't in SMP with you...

Gonna agree with that and then put even more on top of it. Doing well in a SMP is arguably as difficult as getting A+'s in every single class for an entire year. You will need to study 24/7. Literally. I study on average 8-10 hours a day and even then I don't have a perfect GPA. You will have very, very, very little time for your girlfriend. Motivation to turn around is good. I respect that. it does not, however, mean you have the capacity to pull off what is necessary EVEN if you get into a SMP. Unfortunately, you need time to gain discipline to sit on your butt and just study for hours and hours and hours. A lot of students in my program right now, study just as much as I do, but they've come from similar backgrounds as you. They try their hardest and really, legitimately and genuinely work the hardest they have ever done... and... fail to get A's in their classes.

I suggest, take your time and make sure you know what you're going up against. Secondly, figure out if your "drive" is just another part of your fluctuation or if you are really ready to turn things around. You will most likely need to show some kind of proof that the stuff that has happened will never happen again - the multiple drop outs & the inconsistency is what really scares me. It's one thing if you had 4 F's dropped out, and then do amazing well when you return but it's another thing to see them scattered all over the place. You're gonna have to invest a reasonable number of years just proving your new consistency before a SMP will take you seriously.

 

[Haplo]

I think you just need to get your goals on a more consistent, even keel. Find out how to organize your time, and not get so excited when you do well, or down when you do poorly.

Yes, shooting for straight A's is commendable (and maybe doable in undergrad). However, realize that most people in the GTown SMP have the same thought process at orientation, and are rudely disabused by the first exam. Further, there are no guaranteed spots for SMPs to GUSOM. Even the SMP director has expressed that a lot of it is "magic," and she doesn't know sometimes how the decisions are made.

Each level of school concentrates the quality of students to a higher level. Being top of your HS class is great, but there are tens of thousands of HSs. If you couldn't be a top performer on undergrad level, do not think that being a big fish in a small pond makes you a big fish in the ocean. Time and consistency will correlate with good grades in any smp, medical school, or any remedial undergrad work you will do. Do your best, and whatever happens, will happen.

Maybe you should also explore other post-bac options around the DC/MA/VA area, instead of laying all your eggs into one basket. Are you saying that for medical school, you will only apply to Georgetown, GW, and Howard because they are in DC?

 

[skatertudoroga]

Long story short, I have been a MAJOR f--k up in college. Through 6 years of college, I have dropped out plenty of times and have received 4 F's; all in science courses. 2 F's in the last semester. I am not in college this semester as I needed to get a hold of personal issues. I have completed 100 credit hours. My GPA right now stands at 3.1.

But after hitting rock bottom last year, I am DETERMINED to prove myself. I WAS a great student back in HS, and I miss that person. I need to get into Georgetown for 2 reasons - (A) it is the best SMP program and (B) the love of my life, my girlfriend, is moving out to DC to start her PhD in the fall of 2010.

I have every incentive and drive in me to NOT be a f--k up anymore. My plan is over the next year, finish my degree, and get perfect 4.0s in both semesters, score a good MCAT by summer 2011 (what should I shoot for to get into GTown?), build good relationships with professors in my classes in the upcoming year to get strong recommendations, and get in some volunteer time at local hospitals. I realize this is all hypothetical, but this will be DONE. I know it! So, if I were to do all this, and apply to the program for the 2012-2013, what would be my chances based only over one year of hypothetical great work? I need honesty, guys. Tell me how can I insure getting into GTown? What say you guys?

Between graduating from college in May 2011 and hopefully starting GTown SMP in fall 2012, I'll take a year off and work in DC to be close to the girlfriend. And if I do attend GTown SMP, I know I'll be one of those students who are almost guaranteed to get into GTown Med because (A) I have every incentive to not f--k up a clean sheet when it coems to my academic career, (B) I have every incentive to stay in DC to be close to my girlfriend and get married to her eventually, and (C) I know I'm very intelligent that when I do study hard, I always place top (I was the valedictorian in my HS and got many full scholarships to many colleges).

You have some rational reasons for attending SMP. Here is my input. First, to address the gf:
Is she better looking than you or the other way around? What's so special about her? How do you know you're in love if you haven't even finished college and yet you plan to do so much post-grad(med school, residency) before finally getting a career?

As for SMP: the goal is to get 35+ on mcat. But getting into smp is much easier than getting into med school... If you do get a 4.0 during your last year of ugrad it will be definitely something you could talk about during interviews in contrast to prior F's. Since you want to enter smp in Fall 2012, you should really wait with mcat untill late fall 2011, so you could study for it like a full-time job throughout the summer. During that time perhaps volunteer at a hospital no more than 10hrs/wk and ask your parents to pay the bills? But once you finished your mcat you can get more involved in washington. If you get a georgetown interview they will ask you why you chose to attend smp, do you have weaknesses besides your gpa? This is why I don't think it would be too neurotic to get involved in georgetown/washington during those 6months before enrolling in smp. Get any clinical job you can at the hospital. If you cant get a paid position, perhaps get a job at a restaurant and volunteer/shadow at the hospital. Perhaps take the GERMS(paramedic) course at georgetown. Then it's possible that you could do a nice EC during your smp year at georgetown, even if only 1-3 shifts per month.

With your gpa, I think that attending georgetown smp is not so irrational if GUSom is your #1 choice, because chances are that no other school will offer you an interview... But they will tell you from the beginning that it's possible to be merely in the top half and end up being admitted to georgetown. It also means that you can have the highest gpa in class and end up rejected. Have you ever had any interviews for an important job or for med school? You can easily say something to get rejected. Now if you do get rejected, you'll have spent 1yr of ugrad +1yr postgrad+1yr of smp with the sole goal of getting into Georgetown. You will be unemployed and 50k in debt. If you are still interested in medicine after that, it will be natural to consider caribbean. I'd like to tell an analogy that I've come up with but afraid it might be misconstrued as perverted. I think if you have a poor ugrad record, it is more logical to just relax, go to the caribbean or elsewhere, and just start studying 24/7 like as if you are in a 4yr long smp. But if you've already spent 2+ years to get into and graduate from smp, then ending up in caribbeans after that is just too much.

As for getting a high gpa in SMP: it's possible. But consider studying every single day. Do you have the stamina to read a textbook(or anything of comparable level for 5 hours every single day) after attending your classes? You may take 1 day off every 2weeks (i.e. after an exam). It does not mean that it's bad to have a gf. Even if you study like a full-time job, you must interact with other people. You would have a 2week break on Christmas and the courseload lightens up starting in April.

 

[klmnop]

What's so special about her? How do you know you're in love if you haven't even finished college and yet you plan to do so much post-grad(med school, residency) before finally getting a career?

she must have nice a 'rack em'

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GkC0IHCtdc[/YOUTUBE]