very very miserable surgery intern

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eeek

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:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

Is it too late to apply for something else for next year??? Really, I can't imagine staying in my current program for four more years. I don't know if it's the program or the specialty that is making my life horrible, but I need to get out. Every morning i dread getting out of bed because I hate going to the hospital that much, and every minute I'm in the hospital I'm trying to figure out how to leave. If I have to wait until next year to re-enter the match, is it possible to take a year off without having to start paying back my loans?? I'm committed to finishing this year so I definitely will, but I need to be doing something else next July. No one in my program knows that I'm planning to leave and I don't have any "mentors" I would feel comfortable discussing this with. HOW CAN I GET OUT????

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:
 
WHAT!!?? You mean your life isnt like grey's anatomy? (haha, sorry, couldn't resist)

Did you have any "mentors" at your medical school? Perhaps they might have some advice for you? Even if your med school is another state, they offer a little wisdom through email/phone.

I do agree that it might be helpful to talk to the psychologist/psychiatrist at employee health services. Talk therapy really is helpful, even if just for one cry session. I am not a fan of psych drugs, but if you have to stay until July.....

I am just a premed so I'm not very familiar with match, but I would think that as long as the deadline hasn't passed, you still have a shot at this next cycle (although im sure most sdn'ers would say not).

I have a feeling that when you intervew for a new residency spot (and by have a feeling, I mean I know for certianty), they WILL ask you why you hated it and wanted to leave. I think you need to spend a good amount of time trying to pin down more specific reasons as to what is making you unhappy. If I was interviewing someone unhappy with their previous post but could not nail down specifics I would be very very hesitant to hire them.

Do you hate the long hours? Competitiveness among residents/interns? Is there a specific resident/intern/attending that is rude or you just dont mesh with? Does watching surgery bore you and you'd rather be interacting with awake patients? Do you dislike the way you see the staff interacting with the patients? The hospital, location, state, your apartment, you've just had trouble making friends?
 
bellakk said:
I am just a premed so I'm not very familiar with match, but I would think that as long as the deadline hasn't passed, you still have a shot at this next cycle (although im sure most sdn'ers would say not).

I have a feeling that when you intervew for a new residency spot (and by have a feeling, I mean I know for certianty), they WILL ask you why you hated it and wanted to leave. I think you need to spend a good amount of time trying to pin down more specific reasons as to what is making you unhappy. If I was interviewing someone unhappy with their previous post but could not nail down specifics I would be very very hesitant to hire them.

Do you hate the long hours? Competitiveness among residents/interns? Is there a specific resident/intern/attending that is rude or you just dont mesh with? Does watching surgery bore you and you'd rather be interacting with awake patients? Do you dislike the way you see the staff interacting with the patients? The hospital, location, state, your apartment, you've just had trouble making friends?
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I know you're trying to be helpful, but your statements and questions reveal how little you know about general surgery internship and aren't very helpful at all. There's really no need to jump into this as a premed.
 
eeek said:
:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

Is it too late to apply for something else for next year??? Really, I can't imagine staying in my current program for four more years. I don't know if it's the program or the specialty that is making my life horrible, but I need to get out. Every morning i dread getting out of bed because I hate going to the hospital that much, and every minute I'm in the hospital I'm trying to figure out how to leave. If I have to wait until next year to re-enter the match, is it possible to take a year off without having to start paying back my loans?? I'm committed to finishing this year so I definitely will, but I need to be doing something else next July. No one in my program knows that I'm planning to leave and I don't have any "mentors" I would feel comfortable discussing this with. HOW CAN I GET OUT????

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:
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1. You do not need to finish the year. You can resign any time you want. Your contract should have a resignation clause in it, telling you how much notice you need to give. 2 or 3 months would be standard. Resigning from a program is not a match violation.

2. You could apply now for positions for next July in the match. It's not too late, if you get started ASAP. This assumes you know what field you are interested in.

3. You could look for off cycle spots. There is no centralized list of such spots -- some specialties have boards where they are listed. If you apply via ERAS for positions, PD's will see that you could actually start off cycle -- thus if some other PGY-1 drops out (perhaps to take an open surgery spot?) you could take their spot

4. You would need to review with your lenders what happens with your loans. I think that if you've decided to go into income based repayment, or hardship deferment, you could continue that, but you would need to make sure with your lenders.
 
sorry you are having such a bad experience. i would hate surgery, but i guess it is the right field for some people. if you think you are truly in the wrong field and have something else in mind, then you should plan accordingly. e.g. if you want to do family practice, much of your year will be a waste so there may be no need to finish out the year. if on the other hand you want to do e.g. anesthesia, your surgery internship will count so you should probably try to stick it out. there are a lot of anesthesia spots that start at pgy-2 and you don't have to go through the match for them. not sure if you are interested in anesthesia, though...

good luck! if you are truly miserable in surgery and do not see it as the right field, get out!! don't listen to those people who say it will get better b/c it will not if it is not for you.

also agree with an ssri. it can't hurt. intern year is rough.
 
When I did my MPH program, there was an ex-surgery resident in there. She finished her surgery intern year and then applied into the school's MPH program, with the intent to do preventative medicine. As I recall, she said she cried a lot during her intern year, in part from the sleep deprivation.
A colleague of hers also hated the surgery program and switched into anesthesiology at the same school, sometime after her 1st year (it may have been during her 2nd year).
Sorry I don't know more details, but I do know that you aren't alone, and it's possible to switch to something more pleasant.
Best Wishes to you.
Hang in there!
 
Hi eeeek,

I think apd and others have given you great advice. I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're feeling so unhappy and sympathize with you. I wish you all the best! G'luck and keep posting on SDN, we're all here to help (some really great virtual mentors on here).

A 😛
 
I agree with your plan to finish out the year. I know it sucks, but in my experience people tend to respect you more if you finish what you started...unless you have somewhere else to "jump" (i.e. some off cycle spot to start next spring in another specialty) I would hesitate to tell you it's OK to quit at this point, unless you are just so totally miserable that you feel you're going to have a melt down and can't hack it even for another 7 months. Again, I know it sucks, but if the alternative is having no paycheck and perhaps not good letters of evaluation from your current program (as they may get mad if you quit halfway through the year) then staying where you are while you plot your next move may be the wisest thing. If you bail at the end of the year, having given them several months notice, I don't think there will be much in the way of fallout...people bail from surgical residencies all the time and it really isn't that unusual.

Also, realize that the next few months are going to be tough, since in a lot of parts of the country it's cold and dark and you have figured out by this point in the year that interns are scut monkeys, particularly in surgery, and the work is hard and long. However, also realize that as the year goes on you get more and more efficient at doing intern stuff, and so it may get a little less frustrating for you. Also, if you know that you are leaving @the end of the year, you don't have to be quite so much of a gunner and maybe can stress less about what some attendings think of you. You definitely don't want to get a reputation as a slacker, or for not knowing what you are doing, so still maintain a professional demeanor and do all your work and it doesn't hurt to suck up a little to attendings when you get the chance.

I wouldn't favor telling anyone at your current program you are thinking of leaving. If you think you can trust them not to blab to your current program's attendings, then getting advice from med school mentor(s) might be helpful (that is if you're @ a different institution from where you did med school).

Actually, r.e. one of the comments above, I actually don't think the med student's advice was that bad, given he/she is a student. I do not think that the OP will have time to go on interviews for another specialty while he/she is a surgical intern, though. The only time he/she could do it is during vacation time, and unlikely the scheduling will work out. He/she could still potentially apply to something like intenal medicine even this late in the year (probably could still apply in early November), but he/she would need to have at least 1 letter from someone in that specialty, and 2 would be preferable. I don't favor applying to something else out of desperation, though, as it's important to be happy with one's future career. It would be better to take a research year or do an MPH next year or something, or try to get an off-cycle spot for PGY2 that starts next year (like anesthesiology) than to just take any random spot you can get right now (likely would be fp or IM, maybe peds, if it starts mid-year this year).

I am curious whether the OP is signed up for 5 years of general surgery or something else. If he/she just decided that surgery is all wrong, then by all means make plans to quit. However, if doing something like urology and it's being a scut monkey general surgery intern that is driving the OP crazy, then he/she might want to think twice. Being an upper level resident in something like ENT or urology will be quite different than being a surgical intern. If it's the general lifestyle, most of the attendings and other trainees' personalities, or the surgery itself that doesn't mesh with you any more, then getting out might be the best choice.

I also see nothing wrong w/trying an SSRI. I rx'ed them lots of times as an internist and they have a good safety profile and many people find them helpful.
 
By the way, there are probably more people who have switched specialties than you think. I used to think it was kind of impossible to do, but now I know better. Part of it depends on whether and where you are willing to move, though...

Anesthesia tends to have a lot of off cycle spots, but you also might be able to get into something like ER, where at least some of your months from intern year might count. Even for something like IM, you likely can get credit for a month or so (such as if you spent a month rotating in the ER). Family practice residencies are also easy to get, and your skills or liking for doing procedures could be helpful in IM or family practice. IM is easy to get, at least @certain places. Neurology programs also sometimes have open spots. You could wait a couple of months, then sign up for one of those sites like the NRMP's FindaREsident...they have a lot of open spots posted on there.

If you like your current hospital but just not surgery, if you maintain good relations with your current PD, then you could explore doing a horizontal move into something like IM or anesthesia next summer (but wouldn't bring that up until next spring).
 
eeek said:
:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

Is it too late to apply for something else for next year??? Really, I can't imagine staying in my current program for four more years. I don't know if it's the program or the specialty that is making my life horrible, but I need to get out. Every morning i dread getting out of bed because I hate going to the hospital that much, and every minute I'm in the hospital I'm trying to figure out how to leave. If I have to wait until next year to re-enter the match, is it possible to take a year off without having to start paying back my loans?? I'm committed to finishing this year so I definitely will, but I need to be doing something else next July. No one in my program knows that I'm planning to leave and I don't have any "mentors" I would feel comfortable discussing this with. HOW CAN I GET OUT????

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:
Click to expand...

I understand how you are feeling. Residency, especially intern year, is a highly trying experience. Some of the advice I give is mirrored by previous posts. You need to ask yourself: What exactly is making you miserable? Is it the field of surgery? The program itself?
You also need to assess everything else in your life. How are you socially? Do you have a life outside medicine? ( I know that its difficult to do so.) How are your interactions with your fellow interns? Did you leave a relationship behind when you started residency? How is your performance- has it improved somewhat? These are all questions that you should be asking yourself.
Most residency programs have an EAP ( employee assistance program). Seriously, it may be worthwhile to explore that avenue. Maybe just talking about things, either with a counseler or a trusted friend could be of great assistance in making things more bearable. If needed, they can refer you to other sources of help.

Good luck.
 
Slack3r said:
I thought they changed the laws so residents no longer qualified for financial hardship deferments. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

yes, this is the last cycle (ie, it's expiring) of the old school economic hardship deferral for residents (i think you had to have applied by 6/30/09 to cover through 6/30/10), now its switching to the income-based repayment plan. However--if you leave your spot and don't have another job, i think you can still forebear. Same thing=no payments, only diff is that interest accrues on you subsidized staffords instead of being paid by Uncle Sam. Remember, those subsidized staffords are max of 8500 per year of school (ie, max=$34000 of your loan burden)

i wouldn't let the loan issue hold you back if you hate it. life is too short, and if you matched GSurg i'm sure there are other opportunities out there for you. we forget these things in the tunnel vision of medical training.
 
I don't see much of any advantage to the OP of quitting in the middle of the year with no other job lined up, unless he/she is totally having a melt-down. That's just burning bridged @the current program, plus leaves the OP with no income, which is bad regardless of what the student loan burden is. It also makes him/her look like a quitter, which also isn't good in general. But I do agree if the person could match in general surgery, then prospects of being able to switch to something else after completing this year are likely to be good.
 
You have to find a way to finish the year. It keeps options open for fields that require an internship (i.e. anesthesia).
 
I agree with finishing the year also. Knock out internship and there will be other options you can pursue.
 
Totally understand. I started in gen surg as well, didn't finish. I did, however, complete 3 years.

I'm in limbo now. A lot of what I hated wasn't necessarily specific to surgery, but to medicine in general. I'm not sure that medicine is for me. I'm doing a moonlighting kind of job right now, per diem, which brings its own stress, while i try to figure out what to do next.

I hate to say I agree that you really are better off in the long run to stick out the year, unless you have some other job option. Don't be resistant to SSRI. I was, figuring that my problem was situational and when the situation changes things will be better. But then I finally tried one and it helped. Didn't make things perfect, but it did help. Look at it as temporary.

I might suggest if you are in/near an academic center, looking into research positions. That might be a good way to help you decide if you want to stay in clinical medicine at all. Many times you can do a research post doc with MD just like you can with PhD.

I feel for you. You can get through the year!
 
I am really sorry to hear about your situation. I am a fourth-year student, and on my medicine sub-i month I was unhappy and wondered how I could possibly do it for three years of residency. I thought about changing my plans and just getting the M.D., or even doing just one year of residency and being a general practitioner. But I got through the month, took a step back, and reassessed - and realized that I CAN do it. It's amazing how much clarity we can get when we can view the situation from a more objective point of view. Right now, you're in the middle of it and it's hard to have a clear head.

I say all of that to say this: I think you should decide to stick it out until you have finished your intern year. At that point, you can re-evaluate your situation and decide what is best for you and your happiness. That way, even if you decide not to continue, you can pass Step 3 (if you haven't already) and be a licensed physician. My concern with you quitting now is that you will have little to show for your M.D. degree, and your job options will likely be far fewer.
 
eeek said:
Is it too late to apply for something else for next year??? Really, I can't imagine staying in my current program for four more years. ...
Click to expand...

You can get out. No need to feel trapped. You have taken the first important step in admitting that this is not the right situation for you. You can put your loans in forbearance, meaning you do not have to pay them (interest still builds up, but that is the least of your problems). You can take a year off doing research or working, and re-apply to another program as an independent applicant. You can also look at residency spots outside the match. The hard part is, you are going to have to bite the bullet and pick a faculty member to talk to. Some people just don't fit a particular program or a particular discipline, and everybody knows this. You need to talk to a faculty member as soon as you definitely decide you are going to leave the program, because the longer you wait, the harder it will be to plan for next year, apply for other opportunities, get logistics sorted out, etc. Talk to your adviser at your old medical school. You're lucky that you have discovered this as early as you did.
 
greggth said:
You can get out. No need to feel trapped...
Click to expand...
what is with the necro-bump.... The OP was asking back in late 2009. Last I checked we are in March 2011. You would have to have done a search to dig this thread up that had its last post in 2009. In theory, the OP has completed his/her year by now.
 
bellakk said:
WHAT!!?? You mean your life isnt like grey's anatomy? (haha, sorry, couldn't resist)

Did you have any "mentors" at your medical school? Perhaps they might have some advice for you? Even if your med school is another state, they offer a little wisdom through email/phone.

I do agree that it might be helpful to talk to the psychologist/psychiatrist at employee health services. Talk therapy really is helpful, even if just for one cry session. I am not a fan of psych drugs, but if you have to stay until July.....

I am just a premed so I'm not very familiar with match, but I would think that as long as the deadline hasn't passed, you still have a shot at this next cycle (although im sure most sdn'ers would say not).

I have a feeling that when you intervew for a new residency spot (and by have a feeling, I mean I know for certianty), they WILL ask you why you hated it and wanted to leave. I think you need to spend a good amount of time trying to pin down more specific reasons as to what is making you unhappy. If I was interviewing someone unhappy with their previous post but could not nail down specifics I would be very very hesitant to hire them.

Do you hate the long hours? Competitiveness among residents/interns? Is there a specific resident/intern/attending that is rude or you just dont mesh with? Does watching surgery bore you and you'd rather be interacting with awake patients? Do you dislike the way you see the staff interacting with the patients? The hospital, location, state, your apartment, you've just had trouble making friends?
Click to expand...

I love it when pre-meds come in and give their lovely advice to residents! 🙄
 
MCATTT said:
I love it when pre-meds come in and give their lovely advice to residents! 🙄
Click to expand...


As this is necro bump, previous pre-med is probably in your med school class now.

This is a public forum therefore anyone can give advice.
 
isidella said:
...
This is a public forum therefore anyone can give advice.
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Well, while I don't think the prior premed gave awful advice, I would agree that when a resident posts on the gen res board asking an opinion about residency, folks who don't have any residency experience probably should use some restraint. People come to SDN because it's a good community to get advice from folks similarly situated. The whole "it's a public forum" so anyone can give advice argument would quickly undermine the value of this site. I mean, what if anytime a resident had a residency question, folks from the non-physician boards gave their two cents. How long do you think people would still seek advice here?

Also to the guy who bumped this thread, please say "I'm bumping an old thread" and explain why, any time you do this, so folks don't waste time responding to posters who may not even frequent SDN anymore.
 
isidella said:
As this is necro bump, previous pre-med is probably in your med school class now.

This is a public forum therefore anyone can give advice.
Click to expand...

A quick search shows that the pre-med is still a pre-med doing some sort of masters program somewhere.
 
Slack3r said:
I thought they changed the laws so residents no longer qualified for financial hardship deferments. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...


you are CORRECT

HOWEVER, if he is not "working" then he qualifies for 6 month unemployment DEFERMENT where the subsizidized interest is paid nad he can reapply ever 6 months.

if he takes a job that is NOT a residency, he can qualify for the economic hardship deferment based upon the debt to income ratio nad household size.

hope this helps.
 
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