Veterans Affairs (GS-13) Clinical Pharmacist Practitioner Job Offer - Room to Negotiate?

[BC_89]

I've received my first job offer within the VA system for an ambulatory care pharmacist (PACT pharmacist) position. I've been offered GS-13 step 1 upon completion of my residency. Some additional details:

1) COLA-locality plus position equates to ~$129k
2) PGY-2 trained within the VA system (PGY-1 was elsewhere)
3) Although the plan is to sit for BCACP after start date, I do not have a BPS cert at this time

I am waiting for other offers (if any) to hopefully have "somewhat" of negotiation of step 1 vs step 2, but as some of you may know, the Veterans Health Administration overspent there 2024 budget by ~$1.8 billion, causing many facilities to start out with a deficit in their budget for this year, which has unfortunately pulled many positions that were once available (including my facility).

With all that, is there at least a negotiation to start at step-2 given my 1-year federal position as a resident? I know many areas vary differently, but thought I'd put this up for further discussion to see what others have experienced (especially in this difficult hiring phase).

Any and all feedback is welcome -

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bacillus1]

step 1 is a bit low for someone with PGY2....I would think you should get step 2, especially since your PGY2 was in the VA. But then again there's the deficit. I would say it wouldn't hurt to try, but don't count on them saying yes. As far as the board cert, wait until after you are hired and start. Otherwise they may not do the step increase for a board cert that you already have.

 

[BC_89]

Currently, I'm submitting some documents with some communication that some consideration will take place (sounds like fluff). For my own timeline, I'll post when/if I here back concerning any increase during this year of deficit.

 

[lord999]

It depends on the VISN and where your ambulatory clinic is. If you don't want to politic around, get a CBOC. Usually, the 13's are either a supervisory or an independent (CBOC/HBOC/Outreach) position. This position is at terminal grade for your role, so congratulations on hitting your ceiling with your first job.

 

[BC_89]

This is going to be a CBOC position (which was actually what I was hoping for). Paperwork is being processed and some more consideration has been communicated on increasing to at least a Step-2 (of course until I see it on paper, it doesn't exist).

All other interviews (with the exception of one) ended up cancelling the position(s) due to not being approved, or no longer able to back-fill at there facility. Hopefully by end of month (if not sooner) they'll be able to make a final offer and take what I submitted into account -

 

[BC_89]

Thought I would go ahead and give an update with a more detailed outline:

tldr; approved for step increase (GS-13 step 2) with final offer of ~$143k (includes COLA). Start date set for September. Lots of confusion with HR.

1) Interviewed during the middle of PGY-2 back in January
2) Was informed by end of January that my name was submitted to HR for further processing
3) Informed that due to budget constraints, I had to wait for additional approval for the position (waited 10 weeks)
4) April was given a tentative offer for GS-13 step 1 (I countered for a higher step but didn't specify which one)

Well, after going back and forth for the past 4 months, I was approved for a step increase (Step 2) with the new offer of ~$143k (includes COLA). Part of my issue with chain of command in HR was establishing that my service connected disability monthly income during my military service was P&T (permanent and total). For some reason I was told that the difference in my disability pay had to be subtracted from my overall salary ($50k) regardless of what my veteran's benefit summary letter stated. After some going back and forth and clearing the confusion, I did end up getting my final offer sent & signed today.

Start date is September (had to push it back on three separate occasions). Although the location is in an ideal area for myself and the wife and kids (plenty of outdoor activities and scenery), it is far from all other family members. All other offers I did get were from outside the VA in non ideal regions with others still pending an offer within my region (unfortunately, they won't get back to me until the end of this month).

Just to show that even within the VA system, the process is a long one. Just thankful that the position was approved and that I actually got the step increase. Doubtful what the next few years bring in terms of available slots closer to home, but given the job description this may very well end up being our forever home. Hope this "dry hiring freeze" resolves itself for all other residents within the VA that did not land a job (heard lots of issues throughout the country is still as valid since the budget cut announcement).

 

[lord999]

Thought I would go ahead and give an update with a more detailed outline:

tldr; approved for step increase (GS-13 step 2) with final offer of ~$143k (includes COLA). Start date set for September. Lots of confusion with HR.

1) Interviewed during the middle of PGY-2 back in January
2) Was informed by end of January that my name was submitted to HR for further processing
3) Informed that due to budget constraints, I had to wait for additional approval for the position (waited 10 weeks)
4) April was given a tentative offer for GS-13 step 1 (I countered for a higher step but didn't specify which one)

Well, after going back and forth for the past 4 months, I was approved for a step increase (Step 2) with the new offer of ~$143k (includes COLA). Part of my issue with chain of command in HR was establishing that my service connected disability monthly income during my military service was P&T (permanent and total). For some reason I was told that the difference in my disability pay had to be subtracted from my overall salary ($50k) regardless of what my veteran's benefit summary letter stated. After some going back and forth and clearing the confusion, I did end up getting my final offer sent & signed today.

Start date is September (had to push it back on three separate occasions). Although the location is in an ideal area for myself and the wife and kids (plenty of outdoor activities and scenery), it is far from all other family members. All other offers I did get were from outside the VA in non ideal regions with others still pending an offer within my region (unfortunately, they won't get back to me until the end of this month).

Just to show that even within the VA system, the process is a long one. Just thankful that the position was approved and that I actually got the step increase. Doubtful what the next few years bring in terms of available slots closer to home, but given the job description this may very well end up being our forever home. Hope this "dry hiring freeze" resolves itself for all other residents within the VA that did not land a job (heard lots of issues throughout the country is still as valid since the budget cut announcement).

Congratulations on staying in the family. I hope that they remembered to put you on LWOP until you can pin on to maintain continuity of service. The good news is that you're also RIF proof given the retreat rules right now (you would be the lowest priority for GS-13 layoffs and have displacement retreat rights to 12).

 

[PharmDminus]

Congratulations on staying in the family. I hope that they remembered to put you on LWOP until you can pin on to maintain continuity of service. The good news is that you're also RIF proof given the retreat rules right now (you would be the lowest priority for GS-13 layoffs and have displacement retreat rights to 12).

can a 13 bump a 12 if there is a reduction in force even if the 12 has more seniority and good reviews? How likely is a RIF vs reducing staff by not backfilling? I thought VA employees are difficult to eliminate due to union protections.

 

[lord999]

can a 13 bump a 12 if there is a reduction in force even if the 12 has more seniority and good reviews? How likely is a RIF vs reducing staff by not backfilling? I thought VA employees are difficult to eliminate due to union protections.

A 13 in the same Position Description may bump a 12 as that trumps seniority. This has happened with reorganizations, not even RIF's. We are already in the not backfilling, but if the budget to personnel list is too far off, they will RIF. You shouldn't be concerned if you're operations pharmacy (all 13's in their line are mandatory positions by policy and are ineligble for RIF), but you should be if you're clinical (outside the CC if they are also simultaneously the RPD, all positions are discretionary and automatically RIF).

Also, I find this comical to say to the clinical pharmacists, operation pharmacists have the senior position for bump and retreat. An operations pharmacist can bump clinical but not vice-versa due to the way that the credentialing policy is written. The last major reorganization, clinical positions were redesignated as operations, operations pharmacists were put into them to protect them from RIF, and the clinicals were either reassigned to operations or given their payouts.

Read Section Q:

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/workforce-restructuring/reductions-in-force/workforce_reshaping.pdf

 

[PharmDminus]

A 13 in the same Position Description may bump a 12 as that trumps seniority. This has happened with reorganizations, not even RIF's. We are already in the not backfilling, but if the budget to personnel list is too far off, they will RIF. You shouldn't be concerned if you're operations pharmacy (all 13's in their line are mandatory positions by policy and are ineligble for RIF), but you should be if you're clinical (outside the CC if they are also simultaneously the RPD, all positions are discretionary and automatically RIF).

Also, I find this comical to say to the clinical pharmacists, operation pharmacists have the senior position for bump and retreat. An operations pharmacist can bump clinical but not vice-versa due to the way that the credentialing policy is written. The last major reorganization, clinical positions were redesignated as operations, operations pharmacists were put into them to protect them from RIF, and the clinicals were either reassigned to operations or given their payouts.

Read Section Q:

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/workforce-restructuring/reductions-in-force/workforce_reshaping.pdf

so at our CBOC the clinical pact pharmds are all GS13 and the operation RPhs are GS12. So if i am understanding you correctly, the operational positions cannot be eliminated however the GS13 clinical pharmDs could bump the currently sitting operational GS12 since we have the same 0660 position code?

 

[lord999]

so at our CBOC the clinical pact pharmds are all GS13 and the operation RPhs are GS12. So if i am understanding you correctly, the operational positions cannot be eliminated however the GS13 clinical pharmDs could bump the currently sitting operational GS12 since we have the same 0660 position code?

Wierdly enough, the GS-13's can retreat if and only if they have served as operational before due to the statutory coding that operational pharmacists are prioritized. If they do not, they can retreat, but they have to compete against the current staff at 12.

HOWEVER, the GS-13's at the CBOCs and Medical Centers are considered as a group and same with the 12's. Should a retreat happen, they are required to be positioned at the MC as almost all CBOC operational pharmacists have the no-move clause in their appointments. I'm pretty sure it is in your Position Description too.

So the order is:
13 - Management/Specialists
13 - Operations
13 - Clinical
12 - Operations
12 - Clinical

1. Eliminate all non-career/career conditional employees first, irrespective of rank, irrespective of veteran status. Excepted employees who are Hybrid 38's (like pharmacy) are treated like Title 5 for this. Pure 38's like Physicians and Nurses are eliminated at this point, they fall to the bottom for any reappointment eligibility.

2. Any veteran staff eliminated by Step 1 goes into one of two pools:
a. If a 5 or 10 point veteran, move to VoRehab, reappoint as Excepted, bill VA through VoRehab
b. If just a veteran, move to Title 5 Excepted, reappoint, bill VA through Veterans Readjustment
c. (Special clause) If a veteran and possesses National Security clearance, send to OPM for adjudication and agency reassignment (those with NS get to return home to DoD as the Civil Service makes it a point NOT to lay off clearance employees and will put them in sinecures if necessary).

2 a and b cannot participate further in a bump and retreat due to their Excepted appointment. They are considered outside the line for funding at this point (meaning VA actually has to fund their excepted salaries in other agencies as well as our own).

3. Draw up RIF list

4. Execute RIF list allowing for bump and retreat

5. If positions are still available, Career Conditional prioritizes over Excepted for scraps.

 

[PharmDminus]

so what does a republic sweep mean for VHA? will pharmacy be privatized?

 

[workingfarmer]

so what does a republic sweep mean for VHA? will pharmacy be privatized

Doomsday Project 2025!!! but prob not

 

[lord999]

RIF incoming.

 

[PharmDminus]

RIF incoming.

I wouldnt be surprised. they will get rid of collective bargaining for all public workers first, then make the cuts

 

[lord999]

I wouldnt be surprised. they will get rid of collective bargaining for all public workers first, then make the cuts

Can’t on the collective bargaining. Not until 2031, due to the Master Agreement.

https://www.va.gov/files/2022-10/Master_Agreement_between_DVA_and_AFGE%20508%20v2.pdf

It doesn’t matter, RIF supersedes authority as the criteria is objective. Pharmacists are likely exempt due to retention, but bureaucrats are vulnerable.