Veterinary "Clinician's Assistant"

[akitavet]

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Do you guys think there is the potential for veterinary medicine to go the way of human medicine and physicians assistants? I know a lot of human medical practicioners employ physicians assistants to take care of the common, simpler tasks currently performed by DVMs
I just wonder because I was reading an article about specializing vet schools, but one of their points was that the flat rate of graduation from vet school and prevalence of small-animal focused students will not serve to meeet the needs of clients in future years, especially in food animals, research, etc. Do you guys think that it would benefit the field to have a profession somewhere intermediate to the CVT and DVM. Maybe some kind of extension to the CVT program similar to a nurse practicioner in human medicine?

 

[silverelf]

i don't think it will ever happen because *most* CVTs are really good a do a lot of that kind of stuff anyways...CVTs at my clinic do cat neuters and small dog neuters...there's really no need for a clinician assistant. the main reason you really have PAs in a hospital is to be a buffer between the dr. and the patient for malpractice purposes (dr.s don't want to get involved anymore, they'll get sued). that's not so much an issue with pets.

 

[PdxYOSHI]

Are CVTs technically allowed to do neuters? I know its not a complex procedure but still..

 

[silverelf]

cat neuters yes for sure they are taught it in tech school...small dogs i don't know but usually they only do it in my clinic if they're for a shelter

 

[KittenKiller]

I could have sworn only a vet could legally spay/neuter...maybe it varies state to state?

 

[bakaduin]

I could have sworn only a vet could legally spay/neuter...maybe it varies state to state?

I am pretty sure as well that only a vet can do a spay or neuter. Furthermore if you were a client taking your dog to the vet wouldn't you assume that the vet was going to be doing your dog/cats surgery. God forbid something went wrong and you found out a tech was the one doing the surgery I dont think things would end up pretty.

 

[chris03333]

I could have sworn only a vet could legally spay/neuter...maybe it varies state to state?

No not on this topic. It is Illegal for any technicain (RVT, CVT or LVT) to do any surgery including dog and cat neuters.

 

[bakaduin]

No not on this topic. It is Illegal for any technicain (RVT, CVT or LVT) to do any surgery including dog and cat neuters.

Thats what I thought. Which brings up an interesting subject, because I know there are a good amount of vet offices that let techs do neuters.

 

[AuburnPreVet]

Are CVTs technically allowed to do neuters? I know its not a complex procedure but still..

No, not in any state. Although, this does go on at many clinics - I would honestly think twice about allowing your (future) techs to do such. Although they may be "qualified" and legal implications are nill... it's unfair to the client, who - I can assure you - wouldn't approve if they knew sweet Fluffy was going to be operated on by a nurse. Plain and simple.👎

 

[Bill59]

Are CVTs technically allowed to do neuters? I know its not a complex procedure but still..

In many states, that would be practicing veterinary medicine a license. Not only could the tech get in trouble but any DVM involved could potentially loose their license.

 

[sofficat]

If you own your own practice and as long as it is under supervision of a doc, can a tech do certain procedures. I've done 3 cat spays and a cat neuter under doctor supervisions (don't worry... they were on strays and the doc's pet and they all turned out fine).

As far as an inbetween of CVT and DVMs, i think that CVT are the inbetween of regular vet assts and DVM. (my bro is a PA and I have thought about this before).

 

[bakaduin]

If you own your own practice and as long as it is under supervision of a doc, can a tech do certain procedures. I've done 3 cat spays and a cat neuter under doctor supervisions (don't worry... they were on strays and the doc's pet and they all turned out fine).

As far as an inbetween of CVT and DVMs, i think that CVT are the inbetween of regular vet assts and DVM. (my bro is a PA and I have thought about this before).

No. You cant practice surgery without a license.

 

[sofficat]

opps. i mean, i WATCHED 3 spays and a neuter....

 

[Boxsterluv]

The law states that techs can do quite a bit of stuff, under the supervision of a licensed vet, however, in no circumstances can they do three things:

Surgery
Give diagnosis and/or prognosis of animal diseases
Prescribe medication

There are some ways to get around these things, for example, I'm volunteering with RAVS this summer; since we will be on Native American Indian reservations, where there are different laws, I'll get to do spays and neuters legally, even though I'm just a student.

 

[chris03333]

The law states that techs can do quite a bit of stuff, under the supervision of a licensed vet, however, in no circumstances can they do three things:

Surgery
Give diagnosis and/or prognosis of animal diseases
Prescribe medication

There are some ways to get around these things, for example, I'm volunteering with RAVS this summer; since we will be on Native American Indian reservations, where there are different laws, I'll get to do spays and neuters legally, even though I'm just a student.

True but if you went to RAVS as an RVT/CVT/LVT and NOT a vet student, you would not be allowed to do any surgery.

 

[AuburnPreVet]

There are a couple of gray areas... for example certain states don't extend the practice act to include animal shelters, therefore (like in AL) shelters can get away with a LOT of what would otherwise be deemed "practicing w/o a license" -- which, I tend to agree with - since these animals would otherwise not get the care at all.

 

[KittenKiller]

To take another tack with this thread...do you guys agree that only vets should be able to perform spay/neuters? Putting personal interest aside - since if techs could perform them vets would get paid a lot less for them - they are fairly simple procedures. And if they were a lot cheaper, a lot more people would get their pets spayed and neutered. Even if it were just neutered, which is even simpler than spaying.

 

[chris03333]

To take another tack with this thread...do you guys agree that only vets should be able to perform spay/neuters? Putting personal interest aside - since if techs could perform them vets would get paid a lot less for them - they are fairly simple procedures. And if they were a lot cheaper, a lot more people would get their pets spayed and neutered. Even if it were just neutered, which is even simpler than spaying.

I think only vets should perform surgery. I also very much disagree that any spay is a "fairly simple procedure"...trust me an open abdomen is never simple.

 

[bakaduin]

Absoluetely only vet should be able to do spays and neuters. I hate it when people say a spay is a "routine" or "simple". Like we all know a spay is an ovariohysterectomy. If your mom was getting that would you say it was just routine no big deal surgery? Just because vets happen to do the surgery on a regular basis doesn't make it any less dangerous. Like the above poster said any time an abdomen is open huge complications can result.

 

[wivet2011]

Absoluetely only vet should be able to do spays and neuters. I hate it when people say a spay is a "routine" or "simple". Like we all know a spay is an ovariohysterectomy. If your mom was getting that would you say it was just routine no big deal surgery? Just because vets happen to do the surgery on a regular basis doesn't make it any less dangerous. Like the above poster said any time an abdomen is open huge complications can result.

I agree that spays/neuters are not neccesarily 'simple' procedures, but wouldn't performing a procedure on a reguar basis make it routine?

 

[AuburnPreVet]

I'm all for bringing down the cost of spay/neuter to help resolve some of the overpopulation problem - but I disagree with legalizing techs doing sx. The public already doesn't value a veterinarian's skill/education - - and now we are going to allows techs to do a vet's job. That should really add value to veterinary medicine... 🙄

It will never happen.

Instead, 1) become efficient at doing s/n so you can keep cost/price low, 2) support having your clients adopt shelter animals, and 3) go into immunocontraceptive research 👍

 

[silverelf]

i think a spay is a big surgery because you're opening the abdomen, but I don't really get the big deal over neuters. Big dogs can be a problem, but cats barely even qualify as surgery to me...the vets that I've worked for don't even suture them, they leave it open to drain or use some skin glue if its an older cat....Anyways. Sorry I started this big controversy on this thread, didn't know techs weren't supposed to do neuters, I'd never heard that and have always seen techs do them, so I didn't know otherwise.

 

[Bill59]

I agree that spays/neuters are not neccesarily 'simple' procedures, but wouldn't performing a procedure on a reguar basis make it routine?

The only routine surgery is the one someone else is doing .... or having.

 

[Nexx]

Sooo....

are the techs going to do the proper workups prior to the surgeries too?

As it is there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many shady vets out there who half-ass their way through the profession; that they miss life threatening things just because they want to do an elective dental on a 25 year old cat, or because they just want to get the neuter done and over with.

Putting techs on board to do more involved procedures would only escalate this already ridiculously prominent issue.