Veterinary Medicine....Is it worth it?

[Jeff3614]

I've done extensive research on becoming a veteriarian, however, I was wondering what to really expect after school? Obviously one has to have passion for any profession he/she enters, but when do the laws of diminishing returns kick in? I would consider myself a non-traditional student (27 yrs old) and as I approach the last few classes in my degree it's becoming more and more obvious that I really want to commit myself to a profession other than the one I am currently in.

I can truely see myself becoming a vet and being very successful at it, but that nagging question always comes up; is there any light at the end of this tunnel? To me, if you're going to commit all that time and energy to a very difficult degree, usually there is something to look forward to, i.e. compensation equivalent to your expertise and hard work. Doctors are in same boat, however, it's not as bad throwing yourself $200,000 into debt when you know that salaries start around $150,000 for most specialties. I've read horror stories about Vets that are so burdened with debt that it typically takes them about ten years to start thier own practice, which seems to be the only way you can make a comfortable salary.

It seems that going to the best Vet school will, on average, gross you about $55,000 per year, right out of school. Which isn't bad for a starting salary, however, when you factor in the $120,000 in debt and the loans you'll have to pay off it doesn't seem realistic that you could make the monthly loan payments while suppporting yourself on just that salary. That's not even factoring in a family or how you could support one with that debt.

Can anyone out who's been through this process substantiate the things I've read or at least tell me what to really expect? I hope it doesn't come across like I'm some money hungry guy, because I'm not. I'm just looking at all the angles. This is a huge step for me and I want to be sure I make the right decision before I jump feet first into a post-bac program and sign away 4 years of my life. At the moment, it doesn't seem worth it if you're barely scraping by because of a huge school debt and ridiculously low compensation. (Comparatively Speaking)

Please put my fears to rest!


-Jeff-

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[BatDog]

I would consider myself a non-traditional student (27 yrs old) and as I approach the last few classes in my degree it's becoming more and more obvious that I really want to commit myself to a profession other than the one I am currently in.

It seems that going to the best Vet school will, on average, gross you about $55,000 per year, right out of school. Which isn't bad for a starting salary, however, when you factor in the $120,000 in debt and the loans you'll have to pay off it doesn't seem realistic that you could make the monthly loan payments while suppporting yourself on just that salary. That's not even factoring in a family or how you could support one with that debt.

-Jeff-

Jeff:

I can relate to your post. I'm 34, majored in something completely UNrelated to science, and have found myself gravitating toward vet school. I understand your concern about the enormous debt that one can incur in vet school. My research on loan forgiveness shows that the state of Pennsylvania has a forgiveness program.

The Federal Govt passed legislation authorizing the Secretary of Agriculture to award loan forgivenss to students of veterinary medicine who pursue vaterinary careers in underserved areas of the country.
Here's the link:

http://www.rossvet.edu/Ross_News/President_signs_bill_assisting/president_signs_bill_assisting.html


BD

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

Well, the only person that can answer "Is it worth it?" is you. I opted to pursue other interests in college because I didn't think the average vet salary compensated the years of training and debt incurred. However, through my senior year and first year out of college, I realized that I really want a job I love -- and I love working with animals and pet owners. So I'm off to vet school.

The average vet student has $72,000 in debt. Going to "the best" vet school may not be the way for you to go... there are many, many good vet schools and in-state is usually the most reasonably priced. You can also make much more than average if you choose to own your own practice (and you are successful at it). Medical students have to suffer through years as a resident and intern (very low paying for the house). Vets can head straight in to practice. There are also people willing to pay for your education... the army and navy both need veterinarians, and there is the compensation for vets in underserved areas.

Anyway, to me, it's worth it. It's more than feasible if you decide it's the right thing for you.

 

[K.Astro]

I think the loan forgiveness thing has potential, but I wouldn't hold my breath that it will actually help any of us who are starting or finishing school in the next few years. Apparently it's been given the green light, but we all know how little that means in the government! As of this march, they had no way of defining what an "underserved" area is yet (who knows how many years it will take to get that defined), and they are hoping that the program will require students to work several years in order to pay off the loans. The big picture is that they would give the jobs to people who will work for a few years to pay off loans, and then continue working in that underserved area for their career. So, for people down the line from us that are wanting to work in underserved areas for life, it is a great deal...but questionable for the rest of us.

 

[Jeff3614]

I read over that link about loan forgiveness and I was thinking the same thing; what is an underserved area? My guess is that this is a ploy to get more people into livestock veterinary medicine, which has been experiencing a significant shortage of vets in recent years.

Me? I'm a city person and if I did commit myself to vet med, I'd probably try and practice in one of the larger cities. Still, there havn't been many forthcoming replies to my question, which sorta worries me.

Where are all the vets? Tell us how things are going after school. Did you open a practice? Are you doing a residency? Do you work for a practice? Are you happy with your quality of life?

-Jeff-

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

Why don't you call a couple vets or find friend's of friend's that are vets and see if they'll meet with you? I don't think there are many, if any, veterinarians on this message board... SDN is more for those still in training.

We can tell you about our motivations or about our applications, but if you want to talk to practicing vets, you're better off talking to them in person.

 

[docdoc]

I graduated from veterinary school in 1999 and spent 2 years in practice before I realized I had made a mistake. I'm not here to get negative about veterinary medicine, as I have some classmates who love their jobs. In order to be a happy vet you need to be able to accept that you will never be compensated appropriately. If money is an issue than this isn't the career for you. I am currently a second year medical student. I will tell you that as I told my veterinary friends I was giving up the profession every one of them said they had thought about doing the same thing. I never disliked my job, I just wasn't making enough money to support my family the way I wanted to. I know, I know, there are vets out there who are making a ton of money so please don't reply with the story of the vet down the road who is making 300k. I'm talking about the averages. The vast majority of vets just aren't going to make that kind of money. Think long and hard about your decision, If you truly love veterinary medicine and can't imagine yourself doing anything else then the financial side of it can be overcome but it will have to be delt with.

 

[snoopy69]

Wouldn't it have been much easier for this guy to train in a veterinary specialty rather than to go back to medical school? Arent the salaries alot better for specialists in vet med than just primary care vet?

 

[birdvet2006]

Arent the salaries alot better for specialists in vet med than just primary care vet?

Not necessarily. It depends on the specialty. The ABVP specialties (species-specialties) don't really guarantee you any more money. Maybe increased hireability, you can bring more to a practice etc....but not much more money. I can't think of any other lower paying specialties right now, but I'm sure there must be some.

Primary care vets can make a lot of money, especially if they work in emergency clinics (full time or part time). I think locum vets may also make a lot of money if they're good. If you're a practice owner and do good business in an affluent area - you can make big bucks.

 

[giles]

Great post, Jeff. I have been struggling with this dilemma too. I'm in similar position to you but older (34). Here's what I think:

1. The key issue is whether you (will) enjoy and find rewarding the hands-on handling, diagnosis and treatment of animals, over the period of several decades. You can get some idea of this by shadowing vets but that's not quite the same as doing it yourself.
And that's the problem, you won't really really know whether you have made the right decision until you are some years out of vet school.

2. Unlike other professions (such as med), there are very few compensating factors if you don't enjoy or are indifferent to the core role of a vet. As you have figured out, you don't become a vet to make money (every single vet I have shadowed has told me this). Yes, it's not impossible that you could eventually own your own lucrative practise and make big bucks but you would be the exception.

3. Having made point 2, you definitely can eventually make quite a comfortable living from veterinary medicine, once you have cleared the initial debt load. So, don't make the decision either way based on money. If you love the work, and are financially comfortable without being rich, well I will take that anyday over earning big bucks but hating the job (been there, done that, not fun at all).

If I were you, I would spend a lot of time shadowing vets and try and imagine yourself doing the tasks they do.

I would also take individual comments about the profession with a grain of salt - particularly second-hand ones. E.g. if someone tells you they know a vet who loves/hates their job, go ask the vet yourself and you may find that isn't quite the case.

Even the vet themselves may not say the same thing every time they are asked. I talked to a vet who said I would be mad to become one - "long hours, pays pretty average, dirty and downright dangerous job on occasions". Then after asking her whether she was thinking of quitting, she said "No, if I get sick of practise I can always go to goverment or industry. I really have a pretty laidback job at the moment, despite it not being particularly fulfilling. It pays the bills so I'm not inclined to move on just yet"

Also, try and look for evidence of trends in terms of job saisfaction, e.g veterinary career surveys in the literature. I have some data I could send you if you are interested.

Anyway, good luck, it is a tough decision and you are doing the right thing by thinking very seriously before committing yourself.

Giles

 

[theunraveler]

Even the vet themselves may not say the same thing every time they are asked. I talked to a vet who said I would be mad to become one - "long hours, pays pretty average, dirty and downright dangerous job on occasions". Then after asking her whether she was thinking of quitting, she said "No, if I get sick of practise I can always go to goverment or industry. I really have a pretty laidback job at the moment, despite it not being particularly fulfilling. It pays the bills so I'm not inclined to move on just yet"

Also, try and look for evidence of trends in terms of job saisfaction, e.g veterinary career surveys in the literature. I have some data I could send you if you are interested.

what do u mean by "dangerous job on occasions" ? and can u post the data here please?

 

[Anggel]

what do u mean by "dangerous job on occasions" ? and can u post the data here please?

I think that poster was referring to the everyday potential to suffer injuries in this field. Think of an ambulatory vet who constantly runs the risk of being kicked, stepped on, etc. by animals who weigh close to half of a ton. Perhaps even a vet in private practice with smaller companion animals who may run the risk of being scratched and bitten.

I work in a veterinary pathology lab that deals strictly with dead animals and that poses its risks as well. Our lab is a diagnostic path lab which translates to many necropsies performed on a daily basis. Even though I only conduct the gross examinations on many animals, while our vet paths make diagnoses and do histo- and so on, I am always threatened by the chance of contracting a zoonosis. Especially since a sizeable portion of the animals we perform necropsies on our research primates.

Hope that helps clarify some of the dangers that may lurk in this field. Unfortunately, I don't have any statistics as I am not even certain there is any agency who tracks such information. However, if you have an ardor for the field I think all of those risks are minimal in the greater scheme of things. I'll be a first year vet student this autumn and to me the rewards far outweigh the risks!

 

[theunraveler]

actually i am undecided over medicine or vet science too. i have up till end of this yr to decide.

 

[laurafinn]

Jeff,

Throughout my twenties I had the same reservations as you. By the time I had been out of school five years, I was already making more than the average starting salary of a veterinarian, and I couldn’t see putting myself through umpteen pre-requisites, then four more years of school -- not to mention accumulating more than a hundred thousand dollars of debt in the process. I loved handling animals and educating people about them, but I thought I would be satisfied with these activities as an avocation.

Fast forward. I’m 34 now. I still want to be a vet. I hate my current job, and I’m not interested in moving up the career ladder there.

Still, I’m not sure I would have taken the step of beginning veterinary studies unless an option like Massey University’s was available. (In lieu of extensive pre-requisites, they send you through a sort of hazing pre-selection semester, then accept your or reject you.) I think I felt blocked by the high cost of living in California, and my full-time job, and couldn’t imagine quitting and moving to another state to take pre-requisites.

Going to Massey, moving to New Zealand, seems more like an adventure than drudgery – although I have no illusions about the coursework being a walk in the park.

Massey takes five years, and I’ll end up between $175K and $200K in debt. It weighs heavily on me. That said, I think that I’d rather be doing something I like and just scraping by financially, rather than be trapped in a cubicle for the rest of my life. And five years will pass whether I’m in vet school or not.

I also am hoping that some sort of program under the National Veterinary Medical Service Act will be funded by the time I graduate. I want to work in a rural area anyway, so this program would be a boon to me. If the program doesn’t get funded, well, I’ve been poor before… and I'm a lot less interested in material things these days.

OK, this is a way self-indulgent post, but I thought you might be interest in another non-trad’s thought process.

Laura

 

[laurafinn]

As of this march, they had no way of defining what an "underserved" area is yet (who knows how many years it will take to get that defined)

K.Astro,

I think the language of the act defines underserved:

`(b) DETERMINATION OF VETERINARIAN SHORTAGE SITUATIONS- In determining `veterinarian shortage situations' the Secretary may consider the following:

`(1) Urban or rural areas that the Secretary determines have a shortage of veterinarians.

`(2) Areas of veterinary practice that the Secretary determines have a shortage of veterinarians, such as public health, epidemiology, and food safety.

`(3) Areas of veterinary need in the Federal Government.

`(4) Other factors that the Secretary considers to be relevant.​

I guess I'm a little more optimistic about the program getting off the ground, since they may be able to learn from the practices of the National Health Service Corps (see http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov/join_us/clinicians.asp), which is a similar program for physicians, dentists and other health professionals. And frankly, if you look at the "underserved" practice areas and positions available for NHSC participants, there are plenty of opportunities I would not consider hardship posts

BTW-- AAVMC did submit an appropriations request for FY 2006, so I guess we can cross our fingers.

 

[medtechv79]

I think every job has its "dangers". Most zoonotic diseases except some like avian influenza and creutzfeld jakob disease aren't really transmissible to humans.
I work in a vet diagnostic lab and animal blood is not even considered a biohazard! You're more likely to contract HIV through a needlestick accident at a hospital than to get animal blood on your hands. "regular doctors" also have inherent risks as well. THough I think not as much since they take many precautions to prevent nosocomial infections. I'd say animals are more prone to biting and scratching. But human patients can be verbally agressive and such.
All jobs have some sort of "danger".

 

[giles]

what do u mean by "dangerous job on occasions" ? and can u post the data here please?

The vet in question was doing lots of large-animal work, especially cows, so presume she was referring to the dangers of that type of work. But, in general, vets do have a significantly greater risk of injury and illness than other professions.

Here are a couple of relevant studies from Australia - I imagine the general conclusions could apply to vets in other countries also.

Location: http://www.uwa.edu.au/page/26217
UWA STUDY FINDS VETS HOUNDED BY STRESS AND INJURY
First Paragraph:
"Next time you take the family pet to your local vet, spare a thought for the fact that your Fido or Fluffy could be among those responsible for the high levels of injury and occupational stress experienced by Australia's veterinary profession. A research team headed by Dr Lin Fritschi at The University of Western Australia's School of Population Health has conducted Australia's first retrospective study of the occupational health risks facing veterinarians and found some worrying results. Compared to other professions, vets faced an increased risk of: Injury; Contracting an infection from sick animals; Occupational stress; Suicide, and a slightly increased risk of cancer. The study involved 2808 vets from all over Australia and found that in the previous 12 months: Nearly 20 per cent (19.2 per cent) of vets had been injured; Nearly half had suffered at least one dog bite and two thirds had suffered at least one cat bite. Overall, almost half the vets surveyed (49.3 per cent) had a chronic work related injury with over half (51.2 per cent) experiencing a significant acute injury since they graduated from vet school. As well as the significant risk of injury, vets faced a risk of contracting infections transmitted from animals to humans. The study found that a number of vets had experienced Q Fever, Brucellosis, Psitacosis, Leptosporosis and other infections contracted from animals."


Also, here is a major longitudinal study of career issues for Australian vets, over the 10 years post-graduation. I've copied the abstract below with citation details. You can download the full article from the web.

Aust Vet J2002;80:474-478
Longitudinal study of veterinarians from entry to the veterinary course to 10 years after graduation: attitudes to work, career and profession

Objective To describe the attitudes of veterinarians to their work, career and profession during the 10 years after graduation.

Design Longitudinal study of students who started their course at The University of Queensland in 1985 and 1986, and who completed questionnaires in their first and fifth year as students, and after one, five and 10 years as veterinarians.

Methods Data from 129 (96%) questionnaires completed after 10 years as a veterinarian were coded numerically then analysed, together with data from previous questionnaires, with SAS System 7 for Windows 95.

Results After 10 years, almost all respondents were either very glad they had done the veterinary course (57%) or generally glad, though with some misgivings (37%). Despite this, only 55% would definitely become a veterinarian if they ‘had to do it over again’. The responses for about one-third were different from those given five years earlier. The views of
many were related to the level of support and encouragement received in their first job after graduation. There were 42% who were working less than half-time as veterinarians, and their main reasons were, in order, raising children, long hours of work, attitudes of bosses and clients, and poor pay. A
majority was concerned about the ethics and competence of some colleagues, and almost all believed that consideration of costs must influence the type of treatment animals receive.

Conclusions Most veterinarians were glad to have done the veterinary course, but for about one-quarter their career had not lived up to expectations and almost half would not do it again in another incarnation. Stress, hours of work, difficulties in balancing personal life with career and low income were important concerns for many. Low income may contribute to the low number of males entering the veterinary profession.

 

[Iain]

This posting was quite timely. I have been toying around with the going to vet school for quite a while now. I went to University very young, and did not do bad, but it gets more complicated by the fact it was abroad on a different grading system, it leaves me slightly nervous - I am not sure where I stand.

I decided that I could fill my animal need, and work the traditional business job. I went out bought a lovely polo pony, who is awesome - but the plan has back fired on me - it just makes me want to be a vet even more.

It is made even more difficult that I currently am earning 6 figures, and could have a great life if I continue down this road - but on the flip side, my job allows me to work anywhere I have internet access and a phone, so while I am fufilling me pre-reqs and it would not be like I am leaving the business career behind, until I am in vet school and firmly on my way.

It is a tough decision, I am pleased I know have a plan that I think will work nicely - fingers crosesd!!

 

[Olddodger]

Hi Guys,

This is a great thread...

My ex-wife was a vet. It really was one of things I loved about her (among other things). But she specialized in shelter medicine (bless her heart), and in doing so, would NEVER make the $$$ that a practice-owning or specialist vet would.

In fact, she had been out of vet school for something like 10 years, and I wound up paying off her student loans. I just can't imagine having something like that hanging over a person.

I offered, on several occations, to bankroll a practice for her. She had all the right local connections to make it a hit. But she refused, and I saw why. Her friends worked insane hours and the stress was unbelievable. The "patients" were fine, but the most of the owners were boorish to the extreme. After watching what her friends put up with, I never brought it up again.

In any event, I caught myself going through her books, and found myself very interested. To the point where I was considering going back to work on my pre-reqs (I'm a engineer by training). I'm still thinking about it, and if I was financially independent (from work that is), I would try to make a go of it... But the quirky behavior of some of the admissions people really put me off...but thats another story....

Best...

Oldie

 

[poetdante5]

I've done extensive research on becoming a veteriarian, however, I was wondering what to really expect after school? Obviously one has to have passion for any profession he/she enters, but when do the laws of diminishing returns kick in? I would consider myself a non-traditional student (27 yrs old) and as I approach the last few classes in my degree it's becoming more and more obvious that I really want to commit myself to a profession other than the one I am currently in.

I can truely see myself becoming a vet and being very successful at it, but that nagging question always comes up; is there any light at the end of this tunnel? To me, if you're going to commit all that time and energy to a very difficult degree, usually there is something to look forward to, i.e. compensation equivalent to your expertise and hard work. Doctors are in same boat, however, it's not as bad throwing yourself $200,000 into debt when you know that salaries start around $150,000 for most specialties. I've read horror stories about Vets that are so burdened with debt that it typically takes them about ten years to start thier own practice, which seems to be the only way you can make a comfortable salary.

It seems that going to the best Vet school will, on average, gross you about $55,000 per year, right out of school. Which isn't bad for a starting salary, however, when you factor in the $120,000 in debt and the loans you'll have to pay off it doesn't seem realistic that you could make the monthly loan payments while suppporting yourself on just that salary. That's not even factoring in a family or how you could support one with that debt.

Can anyone out who's been through this process substantiate the things I've read or at least tell me what to really expect? I hope it doesn't come across like I'm some money hungry guy, because I'm not. I'm just looking at all the angles. This is a huge step for me and I want to be sure I make the right decision before I jump feet first into a post-bac program and sign away 4 years of my life. At the moment, it doesn't seem worth it if you're barely scraping by because of a huge school debt and ridiculously low compensation. (Comparatively Speaking)

Please put my fears to rest!


-Jeff-

Several schools like Ohio University require you to to have a good MCAT score in order to go to the Vet program. They way I see it, I get a 150000 debt which I can live with. The local medschool tuition for RESIDENTS is around 15000 a quarter. With three quarters in a year and four years that's 180000. I shudder to think what it is for non-residents. Anyway I love working with animals and I figure that if ever for some strange reason I don't like it I have the requirements to step into medschool before I am in too deep. But for me, I love animals so that should not be a problem.

 

[Klynde]

Hi, Jeff:

I am a non-trad student (age 46!) currently about to begin my 3rd year of vet school. here is what i have learned:

vet med is in the process of transition: most vet students these days are women (good for you, if you are a man!). what this is doing in the us, anyway, is making the supply of vets who practice full-time quite limited, and those who want to actually own their own practice extremely limited -- vet med is apparently an awesome 2nd income job. also, it attracts quite a few trust fund babies who can afford the steep tuition and then ski for 3 days a week and work just two. this is why there's a huge corporate push by companies like banfield and vca into the market -- the old guys retire, and there's no one to sell their practice to except for the corporations. so, this means that there is a huge opportunity for people like us who want to own their own practices. [

I say, go for it. starting salaries at a place like banfield i have heard are quite low -- like 35,000 US a year. do an internship, and/or a residency (at 27 you are quite young!) and you can start out at 80-100,ooo/yr. then you arrange a buy out over time for a practice. large animal practitioners can make quite a bit more -- i recently found an ad on one of the vet boards for an equine ambulatory associate starting salary for $150,000 no kidding. you have to be selective and be a jerk about asking for more $$$ but it is very possible to do ok.

good luck!

kathy

QUOTE=Jeff3614]I've done extensive research on becoming a veteriarian, however, I was wondering what to really expect after school? Obviously one has to have passion for any profession he/she enters, but when do the laws of diminishing returns kick in? I would consider myself a non-traditional student (27 yrs old) and as I approach the last few classes in my degree it's becoming more and more obvious that I really want to commit myself to a profession other than the one I am currently in.

I can truely see myself becoming a vet and being very successful at it, but that nagging question always comes up; is there any light at the end of this tunnel? To me, if you're going to commit all that time and energy to a very difficult degree, usually there is something to look forward to, i.e. compensation equivalent to your expertise and hard work. Doctors are in same boat, however, it's not as bad throwing yourself $200,000 into debt when you know that salaries start around $150,000 for most specialties. I've read horror stories about Vets that are so burdened with debt that it typically takes them about ten years to start thier own practice, which seems to be the only way you can make a comfortable salary.

It seems that going to the best Vet school will, on average, gross you about $55,000 per year, right out of school. Which isn't bad for a starting salary, however, when you factor in the $120,000 in debt and the loans you'll have to pay off it doesn't seem realistic that you could make the monthly loan payments while suppporting yourself on just that salary. That's not even factoring in a family or how you could support one with that debt.

Can anyone out who's been through this process substantiate the things I've read or at least tell me what to really expect? I hope it doesn't come across like I'm some money hungry guy, because I'm not. I'm just looking at all the angles. This is a huge step for me and I want to be sure I make the right decision before I jump feet first into a post-bac program and sign away 4 years of my life. At the moment, it doesn't seem worth it if you're barely scraping by because of a huge school debt and ridiculously low compensation. (Comparatively Speaking)

Please put my fears to rest!


-Jeff-[/QUOTE]

 

[medtechv79]

I am interested in vet med but I don't think I totally like the idea of owning my own practice. Is that what the majority of Vets do these days? It seems like so much work....the business aspect and everything. And long long hours supervising people etc. Are there other alternatives to different careers in vet med? Owning a practice to me just isn't really an interest to me.

I know doctors will go into practice with other doctors or work for hospitals but is this feasible for a vet or is the only way to earn good money is to open your own practice? I'd just like some answers to these questions.

I was looking into veterinary pathology or lab animal medicine....how is that job outlook?

So working for Big corporations like VCA usually doesn't pay that well?

Alright enough questions.
THanks everyone!

 

[Anggel]

According to the most recent conference of the American College of Veterinary Pathologists (ACVP) the current outlook for veterinary pathologists who have completed the required residency and obtained board certification, is approximately $80-100k to start in the private industry sector. Keep in mind though that usually entails a DVM/Phd combined degree, as I know of more veterinary pathologists witha DVM/Phd than without. If you want a slightly older breakdown of salaries in the various geographical areas visit the ACVP website at http://www.acvp.org/career/2003salary.pdf.

I am quoting both of my employers who are Diplomates of the ACVP and attended the most recent conference. I work in a government-subsidized veterinary pathology lab myself and will be a first year vet student at Purdue this autumn.

Personally, I am leaning towards pursuing veterinary pathology myself, but am not certain if I will go the DVM/Phd route myself or pursue the Phd later on. From the opinions of others in the veterinary field it is by far the most rigorous of the board specialties, but I think the rewards are enormous. Board certified veterinary pathologists are in HUGE demand because there are so few of them. However, I believe that is because the passing rate for the ACVP board exam is only about 10% and because the dual degree route can be quite grueling from what I hear...

 

[MicheleVet]

$80-100k to start in the private industry sector

Wow...that's lower than what I've heard been thrown around for a starting salary...

Board certified veterinary pathologists are in HUGE demand

I know one who had 3 offers the day he passed...more after...




Though, you'd have to pay me a whole heck of a lot to spend my day pushin' glass! I respect those of you that do immensely! And am willing to pay for your expertise...even if sometimes it's too late.

 

[canada_vettobe]

What does a pahologist actually do? I would assume they receive samples/identify cause of death etc, but is there more to the job than that? Sorry if this sounds uneducated, i'm only entering vet school this fall so still looking around at what else you can do with a DVM.

 

[canada_vettobe]

Uneducated? LOL......especially when I can't even spell PATHOLOGIST

 

[Anggel]

Michele- You're definitely right about ballpark 1st time offers. I was trying to give a really general and conservative estimate. My employers who are both board-certified each make about 200K per year. I hear actually around $125,000 is about average for a first time offer out here in CA. But I know it can be lower in areas where the standard of living is significantly less expensive. Since you've just graduated with your DVM, what type of medicine are you engaged in now?

Canada_vetto be-I work in a lab that conducts primarily diagnostic veterinary pathology, in other words our primary service is conducting necropsies on private and public specimens. We see everything from livestock to aquatic specimens, and occasionally we get a few perfused primates from research facilities. I absolutely fell in love with pathology because a pathologist has to have the workng knowledge of a general clinician and be able to differentiate between post-mortem and ante-mortem artifact. In some ways it's analogous to detective work in that you have to be able to think systematically and have good deductive reasoning.

If you go into the other side of veterinary pathology, histology better be a passion, because several vet paths I know spend all of their time looking at slides for abnormalities for pharmaceutical companies, small biotech, etc.

 

[evica26]

Do you have to do anatomic or clinical pathology residency in order to persue a carrier as a veterinary pathologist and work for a pharmaceutical company or a diagnostic laboratory?
What is the difference between the two residencies?

Thanks!

Eva

 

[MicheleVet]

I'm in an small animal rotating internship...medicine, surgery and triage. There is talk about a residency...nothing's set in stone yet.

Drug companies usually want more anatomical pathologists than clinical pathologists...though they do need both. Antech also uses both...

Anatomic Path deals with necropsy (animal autopsy) and histology. Histology is looking at slides of tissues that were fixed (such as in formalin) and sliced really thin...anatomic architecture is preserved...if in any of your science classes you remember seeing pictures of Islets of Langerhands or renal glomeruli, they were probably histopathology slides...

Clinical Path deals with blood smears, bone marrow, chemistry panels, and tissue aspirates/touch preps. An aspirate is when a needle is inserted into a mass/lymph node/body cavity and cells are sucked out/cored out and smeared onto a slide. The tissues aren't fixed...and the cells do not maintain their anatomic architecture. Touch preps involve touching the biopsy sample to a slide before it's sent to histopathology...before the sample is fixed...and this will occasionally allow some evaluation of architecture...though it's used mainly to determine if margins are clean at surgery.

A really general guideline is that Anatomic Pathologists deal with "dead" tissue that has been removed from the animal (biopsies, necropsies, mass removals)...and clinical pathologists deal with "live" tissue that is still part of the animal (blood, fluid, aspirates of masses still attached to the patient).

Both involve looking at slides, though...

For those more "in the know" feel free to correct me or add to this.

 

[Opii]

I've done extensive research on becoming a veteriarian, however, I was wondering what to really expect after school? Obviously one has to have passion for any profession he/she enters, but when do the laws of diminishing returns kick in? I would consider myself a non-traditional student (27 yrs old) and as I approach the last few classes in my degree it's becoming more and more obvious that I really want to commit myself to a profession other than the one I am currently in.

I can truely see myself becoming a vet and being very successful at it, but that nagging question always comes up; is there any light at the end of this tunnel? To me, if you're going to commit all that time and energy to a very difficult degree, usually there is something to look forward to, i.e. compensation equivalent to your expertise and hard work. Doctors are in same boat, however, it's not as bad throwing yourself $200,000 into debt when you know that salaries start around $150,000 for most specialties. I've read horror stories about Vets that are so burdened with debt that it typically takes them about ten years to start thier own practice, which seems to be the only way you can make a comfortable salary.

It seems that going to the best Vet school will, on average, gross you about $55,000 per year, right out of school. Which isn't bad for a starting salary, however, when you factor in the $120,000 in debt and the loans you'll have to pay off it doesn't seem realistic that you could make the monthly loan payments while suppporting yourself on just that salary. That's not even factoring in a family or how you could support one with that debt.

Can anyone out who's been through this process substantiate the things I've read or at least tell me what to really expect? I hope it doesn't come across like I'm some money hungry guy, because I'm not. I'm just looking at all the angles. This is a huge step for me and I want to be sure I make the right decision before I jump feet first into a post-bac program and sign away 4 years of my life. At the moment, it doesn't seem worth it if you're barely scraping by because of a huge school debt and ridiculously low compensation. (Comparatively Speaking)

Please put my fears to rest!


-Jeff-

Hi Jeff,
I'm not in the vet field but I am a non traditional prof. student, in the end, you won't regret your choice. You can take Vet profession many directions.
Good Luck.

 

[monkey7247]

I'm in an small animal rotating internship...medicine, surgery and triage. There is talk about a residency...nothing's set in stone yet.

Drug companies usually want more anatomical pathologists than clinical pathologists...though they do need both. Antech also uses both...

Anatomic Path deals with necropsy (animal autopsy) and histology. Histology is looking at slides of tissues that were fixed (such as in formalin) and sliced really thin...anatomic architecture is preserved...if in any of your science classes you remember seeing pictures of Islets of Langerhands or renal glomeruli, they were probably histopathology slides...

Clinical Path deals with blood smears, bone marrow, chemistry panels, and tissue aspirates/touch preps. An aspirate is when a needle is inserted into a mass/lymph node/body cavity and cells are sucked out/cored out and smeared onto a slide. The tissues aren't fixed...and the cells do not maintain their anatomic architecture. Touch preps involve touching the biopsy sample to a slide before it's sent to histopathology...before the sample is fixed...and this will occasionally allow some evaluation of architecture...though it's used mainly to determine if margins are clean at surgery.

A really general guideline is that Anatomic Pathologists deal with "dead" tissue that has been removed from the animal (biopsies, necropsies, mass removals)...and clinical pathologists deal with "live" tissue that is still part of the animal (blood, fluid, aspirates of masses still attached to the patient).

Both involve looking at slides, though...

For those more "in the know" feel free to correct me or add to this.

That's a great explanation! You should consider teaching after your internship.