Veterinary Residencies

[ABaverage]

What are the different residencies avail for vets? Is completing a residency "worth" it? About what percentage veterinarians complete a residency?

I'm interested to know a little more about veterinary ophthalmology. Who knows of someone that has gone into that field? What are it's challenges? What is the pay?

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[WhtsThFrequency]

A lot of this can be easily found on the internet, but I'll answer the rest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterinary_specialties (list of specialties - although the mention that specialists get paid 2-3 times a GP is incorrect - even twice is pushing it. And the mention of a starting salary of a vet specialist is 140k, with average of 150 to 350k, is absolutely ludicrous. I only wish I could get paid that much after I finish).

http://www.acvo.com/ (Veterinary Opthalmology)

At least 50% of veterinarians, especially those graduating in the last couple years, do one or multiple internships after they graduate. I think about 10-15% go on to become board certified in something via residency.

Whether a residency is "worth it" or not depends completely on what you want to do. If you want to be a general practioner, you don't need one (although I know many who do Internal Medicine internships and/or residencies). If you feel a calling to a specialty, then do it.

The veterinary opthalmologists I know seem to love their job. I can't quote exact salary numbers, but it's in the area of pathology and radiology and other top specialties (i.e. you max out at around 90-140k after 10-20 years depending on whether you are in an academic referral hospital or a private clinic) and the lifestyle is pretty relaxed. Most of them also do all their own surgeries. Most of the emergencies you're going to see are traumatic, usually requiring extraction.

However, the number of optho residencies is quite low, and you'd likely have to do a 1-2 year rotating med/surg internship before even applying.

 

[david594]

At least 50% of veterinarians, especially those graduating in the last couple years, do one or multiple internships after they graduate. I think about 10-15% go on to become board certified in something.

Is 50% right for grads going on to internships? I thought it was more like 20%?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Last I heard it was 40% a few years ago of people that do either an internship or a residency (so probably 10 of that are doing residency, the rest internships)

And based on what I see, I think its increasing - so yeah the 50% was a guestimate, but a very large proportion of my graduating class (and others) did internships.

A lot of it stems from the poor economy and lack of jobs too - there is nothing else to do but do an internship.

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

My graduating class had 142 people in it. I think 20-some people matched through VIRMP into internships, and I'm not sure how many people went outside the match for internships (AAEP, etc.). Five of us went directly into residencies (3 into lab animal, 2 into anatomic path).

I think economic/pay factors are a big part of the reason people are pursuing post-graduate training. However, there is also a growing number of clinics (especially in emergency work) who will absolutely not hire new grads or people who have not completed an internship. I was looking for side work up here when I moved, and several clinics told me flat-out that they would not hire me without an internship. It costs money to mentor and train new grads, and many clinics are simply not willing (or able) to make the investment.

 

[Bill59]

Is completing a residency "worth" it?

Only if you want to become a specialist.

There are about 10,000 diplomates of an AVMA-recognized specailty. Most of these did a residency. Some that complete a residency never become diplomates, usually because they don't pass their credentials or the exams.

The challenges of ophthalmology are you have to really like treating eye diseases to the exclusion of everything else and getting a residency is pretty competetive.

A typical salary for someone right out of an ophtho residency going into private practice is $125K. It can go up substantially from there with experience, especially if you are paid based on production. Salaries are substantially less for academia.

 

[sumstorm]

There are a few specialties that do not require formal residensies.

Here was the only stats I could find on AVMA for internship/residencies.

"AVMA surveys of veterinary graduates from veterinary schools and colleges in the United States found the proportion of graduates accepting positions in advanced training has increased 9 percent in the past year, from 39.9 percent in 2008 to 43.5 percent in 2009 "

 

[VeganSoprano]

With regard to the above statistic, though, that is in reference to internships completed right after graduation. Only some of these folks will pursue further specialized training after that first year.

 

[BeagleVet]

Semi-related to this thread, beyond a residency what does it take to get a faculty position? Do you really need a DVM/PhD? or just an internship, competitive residency, and qualifying experience?

 

[Bill59]

It depends on the faculty position. For a clinical position a DVM or equivalent and board-certification is usually the only requirement. They will sometimes advertise as "board-eligible" meaning you've completed a residency.

If it's a research or basic science position, they usually require a DVM and/or PhD.

Have a look at the classifieds in JAVMA or the AVMA website, there is a section on institutions, industry and government practice that has the academic positions advertised that would give you some specific examples.

 

[sumstorm]

With regard to the above statistic, though, that is in reference to internships completed right after graduation. Only some of these folks will pursue further specialized training after that first year.

Somewhere in the article (or another one on AVMA) it noted that stat did include some residencies that admitted w/out internship. I posted that as a supporting stat to WhtstheFrequency's estimate.

I find it a bit.....befuddling?... that there aren't any actual standards for internships.

 

[Bill59]

There's no real point in having standards unless there is someone to enforce them.

 

[Braki]

How are there so many internship spots? Is it just a US thing? I was looking at the numbers in Canada, and there are 34 internship spots posted on VIRMP, but Canada graduates approximately 250 vets a year from the English vet schools alone (I don't know how many Montreal graduates). Does the US have many more internship opportunities? Are there just a lot of internships listed outside VIRMP?

 

[Bill59]

I can't remember the numbers from last year but I think it was around 250 internship programs and about 1000 slots for the VIRMP. And almost all North American rotating internships go through VIRMP (a lot of residencies don't). Overall about 30-40% graduates do an internship these days.

I don't know the specific numbers but I'm sure there are many more internship positions in the US than in Canada.

 

[StealthDog]

I'm interested to know a little more about veterinary ophthalmology. Who knows of someone that has gone into that field? What are it's challenges? What is the pay?

The major challenge is that you have to touch eyeballs... *shudder*

 

[VeganSoprano]

For faculty positions, it depends. I personally know one person who is a community practice instructor at a US school and she got the position right after her intern year. It's not the norm but it is possible.

 

[ABaverage]

The major challenge is that you have to touch eyeballs... *shudder*

I regularly touch eyeballs

I think I read somewhere that vet ophtho residency takes another 5 years. Who would do that when u max out at.. 140k?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Usually it's a one year internship, then a three year residency I believe.

You do it because you want to. I'm doing the same thing, and will max out at about that unless I go into industry. You can live very comfortably on such a salary and manage your debt if you're smart. I'm just happy do be doing what I want to do, even if it means I can't buy BMWs.

 

[Bill59]

I think I read somewhere that vet ophtho residency takes another 5 years. Who would do that when u max out at.. 140k?

It's 3 years, and who says they max out at $140K?

 

[ABaverage]

WTF, r u doing a residency in vet ophtho?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

No, I'm doing my residency in pathology.

 

[david594]

I regularly touch eyeballs

I think I read somewhere that vet ophtho residency takes another 5 years. Who would do that when u max out at.. 140k?

It's 3 years, and who says they max out at $140K?

Isn't optho one of the fields where people doing a specialty internship before starting their residency is becoming more common?

So 1 year rotating internship, 1 year speciality internship, and then the 3 year residency for a total of 5 years of training?

 

[Bill59]

Yes, ophtho residencies are very competitive. But there are very few ophtho internships -- I didn't see any in the match this year.

In any event, we were addressing the statement that "vet ophtho residency takes another 5 years." It's not, it's typically 3 years.

 

[almostglue]

Most of the ophtho internships are outside the match. My best friend is going for ophtho and she's having to deal with that right now. Most people don't match for ophtho straight out of a rotating internship. Same goes for cardio, neuro, surgery... probably some others. It's hard to get a residency these days...