View on Partying?

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FCBarca1990

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Hey all,

Just wanted to see what you guys thought about this situation. For one medical school secondary, there are two essays, one about a moral dilemma and the other about a unique experience.

For my moral dilemma response, I talked about a friend who got sick from drinking at a party (and was underage). Is this too edgy of a topic?

After finishing my moral dilemma response, I then proceeded to write my unique experience essay--about a semester in a coordinator position dedicated to planning a very large social event at my university. I discussed the amount of time I invested in this unconventional EC, which really was a memorable experience for me.

I only realized afterward that both my responses have been about my social life haha. Do you think this will come off poorly in the eyes of an adcom? I have pretty strong grades and MCAT score, and I have a number of committed volunteering and health experiences. However, it just happened that I chose to highlight these two special experiences in the secondary--you think I'll come off poorly as too much of a party animal?

I'm interested in hearing your responses!
 
FCBarca1990 said:
Hey all,

Just wanted to see what you guys thought about this situation. For one medical school secondary, there are two essays, one about a moral dilemma and the other about a unique experience.

For my moral dilemma response, I talked about a friend who got sick from drinking at a party (and was underage). Is this too edgy of a topic?

After finishing my moral dilemma response, I then proceeded to write my unique experience essay--about a semester dedicated to planning a very large social event at my university. I discussed the amount of time I invested in this relatively unconventional EC, which really was a memorable experience for me.

I only realized afterward that both my responses have been about my social life haha. Do you think this will come off poorly in the eyes of an adcom? I have pretty strong grades and MCAT score, and I have a number of committed volunteering and health experiences. However, it just happened that I chose to highlight these two experiences in the secondary--you think I'll come off poorly as a party animal?

I'm interested in hearing your responses!
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I think it shows you are well-rounded. IMHO, I would not write anything on these apps that you wouldn't tell your grandmother verbatim.
 
It sounds like you could write the unique experience essay in a way which downplays the party/social aspects of the experience. Focus on the leadership skills you developed, for example.

And while the majority of premeds probably got a little too crazy at some point(s) during their undergrad days, I'd be very very careful about how you write the other essay as well.

Both of these seem like topics that could be pulled off and turned into good essays, but they also sound somewhat risky in that you'll have to do a great job on the essays to present things the way they need to be presented.
 
Solid topics, as long as the application pic you sent in isn't you dominating a keg stand and you're a reasonably decent writer I think it should turn out well
 
FCBarca1990 said:
For my moral dilemma response, I talked about a friend who got sick from drinking at a party (and was underage). Is this too edgy of a topic?
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what did you actually write about? I don't see a huge moral dilemma in that.
 
ponyo said:
Out of curiosity, what did you actually write about? I don't see a huge moral dilemma in that.
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Yeah, I don't see how that's really a "dilemma" to begin with. And if it was, isn't his dilemma and not yours?
 
ponyo said:
Out of curiosity, what did you actually write about? I don't see a huge moral dilemma in that.
Click to expand...

At my school, until very recently, you could get in trouble for helping someone who was sick from too much alcohol if you showed up drunk too. If that is the case, I would consider that a dilemma, especially for a pre-med who is living in fear of disciplinary action.
 
tmh said:
At my school, until very recently, you could get in trouble for helping someone who was sick from too much alcohol if you showed up drunk too. If that is the case, I would consider that a dilemma, especially for a pre-med who is living in fear of disciplinary action.
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What an idiotic policy.
 
tmh said:
At my school, until very recently, you could get in trouble for helping someone who was sick from too much alcohol if you showed up drunk too. If that is the case, I would consider that a dilemma, especially for a pre-med who is living in fear of disciplinary action.
Click to expand...

Oh you're right that would be terrible. My school admin doesn't get us in trouble for underage drinking except this one police fiasco unrelated to the school, so I forgot that actually happened to people. I actually have gotten emails from school officials telling us where to liquor treat for Halloween...

I can't imagine watching your friend going into a coma just to have a clean AMCAS though. I very recently sent one of my suitemates to the hospital in an ambulance after finding her passed out cold on the floor and I don't think it was a realistic possibility to just leave her regardless of what legal or disciplinary consequences may follow.
 
tmh said:
At my school, until very recently, you could get in trouble for helping someone who was sick from too much alcohol if you showed up drunk too. If that is the case, I would consider that a dilemma, especially for a pre-med who is living in fear of disciplinary action.
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Oh, that's a tough one. I'm assuming you got your friend some help? If you didn't, you wouldn't want to write about it. Even if you did, does that require your essay to disclose the fact that you broke a university policy? It sounds like you could make a pretty good essay out of it, but it would be best to avoid admitting you drank underage or against university policy if you could do it.
 
Wolfman89 said:
You can say that again. What kind of *****s come up with a policy like that?
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Usually it's just lack of a policy. My school had a similar problem, but it was because the policy just read, "No drinking in the dorms." There was no separate protection for people that were drinking, but also had to help a friend.

I think at a lot of places it's more of an oversight than anything.
 
Astarael said:
Usually it's just lack of a policy. My school had a similar problem, but it was because the policy just read, "No drinking in the dorms." There was no separate protection for people that were drinking, but also had to help a friend.

I think at a lot of places it's more of an oversight than anything.
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Yeah that was basically why the policy existed. As you can imagine, there was uproar for a long time. Finally changed.

To answer your previous question, it didn't happen to me, thank God. That would be a miserable position to be in.
 
I chose not to go into the situation in the interest of remaining anonymous but, in short, I was not intoxicated but had to take care of an underage friend who was. The friend was conscious but unable to take care of himself. As any friend would, I had to consider if medical help was required. Generally, amnesty is given, by policy, for EMS calls but there have recently been cases where an intoxicated student has gotten in trouble because EMS came with an officer.

My friend was not interested in risking getting caught but was too inebriated to make a decision for himself. I had to make a call as to whether to take the risk-which I ultimately and confidently did.

Also, in the second essay, I actually did not attend the event I planned because I was managing a very large student security force. However, I was more concerned by the image that I am choosing to portray myself as and the assumptions that adcoms may make.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
 
I would stay away from the topic for the first essay because you're bringing up your friends being involved in underage drinking. Once you open that door, an ADCOM could question whether or not you drank underage and how much you party. I'm personally not judging whether this hurts your application, but it would suck if that essay were the reason a med school rejected you.
 
FCBarca1990 said:
I chose not to go into the situation in the interest of remaining anonymous but, in short, I was not intoxicated but had to take care of an underage friend who was. The friend was conscious but unable to take care of himself. As any friend would, I had to consider if medical help was required. Generally, amnesty is given, by policy, for EMS calls but there have recently been cases where an intoxicated student has gotten in trouble because EMS came with an officer.

My friend was not interested in risking getting caught but was too inebriated to make a decision for himself. I had to make a call as to whether to take the risk-which I ultimately and confidently did.

Also, in the second essay, I actually did not attend the event I planned because I was managing a very large student security force. However, I was more concerned by the image that I am choosing to portray myself as and the assumptions that adcoms may make.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
Click to expand...

I think most people will believe that you acted maturely and did the right thing (even if you were intoxicated). Maybe you can leave out the bit about being drunk.

With respect to the bolded... planning on a revolution or something?
 
FCBarca1990 said:
I chose not to go into the situation in the interest of remaining anonymous but, in short, I was not intoxicated but had to take care of an underage friend who was. The friend was conscious but unable to take care of himself. As any friend would, I had to consider if medical help was required. Generally, amnesty is given, by policy, for EMS calls but there have recently been cases where an intoxicated student has gotten in trouble because EMS came with an officer.

My friend was not interested in risking getting caught but was too inebriated to make a decision for himself. I had to make a call as to whether to take the risk-which I ultimately and confidently did.

Also, in the second essay, I actually did not attend the event I planned because I was managing a very large student security force. However, I was more concerned by the image that I am choosing to portray myself as and the assumptions that adcoms may make.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good situation to write an essay off of! You did the right thing in a tough situation. Seems reasonable to me.
 
FCBarca1990 said:
My friend was not interested in risking getting caught but was too inebriated to make a decision for himself. I had to make a call as to whether to take the risk-which I ultimately and confidently did.
Click to expand...

Are you planning on going into bioethics for this essay? I can definitely see a connection between your decision and a physician making choices for a patient in an unstable mental state, which brings in questions of paternalism and all those fun arguments.
 
I would not write about the friend drinking and the moral dilemma part of it. It just comes off as naive, to be honest. Your most important dilemma in your life has been a friend getting drunk? If you have to, make something else up!

The other part about organizing the event for the other essay is good though. Blow up as much as you can about the organizing that went into setting it up in the weeks before the party. Don't forget to list your title as organizer or whatever. Med schools eat that ish up.
 
Medicine4Bruhs said:
I would not write about the friend drinking and the moral dilemma part of it. It just comes off as naive, to be honest. Your most important dilemma in your life has been a friend getting drunk? If you have to, make something else up!
Click to expand...

I disagree. External ethical problems can be very difficult to resolve, since the benefits and consequences are not yours to bear. A lot of people don't have to deal with anything difficult since their parents tend to shelter them from decisions like this. College drinking is the first exposure for a lot of people (it definitely was for me).

Edit: In addition, the level of difficulty you have making an external decision is somewhat indicative of your empathy in the situation. If you didn't have any, the decision would be easy. Call the police-done. It is because the OP could empathize with his/her friend that this was an issue. I think that's a good thing.
 
Medicine4Bruhs said:
I would not write about the friend drinking and the moral dilemma part of it. It just comes off as naive, to be honest. Your most important dilemma in your life has been a friend getting drunk? If you have to, make something else up!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised that this would be the most important dilemma someone at that stage in life has faced.
 
Biggest moral dilemma = whether to take advice from SDN? I like it
 
Word, well tell us about your significant moral dilemma you had when your friend was underage drinking (and you surely weren't) and the effect it had on your decision to pursue medicine. Or you can actually use the essay to enhance your medical school application. It's all straight with me brah.
 
Medicine4Bruhs said:
Word, well tell us about your significant moral dilemma you had when your friend was underage drinking (and you surely weren't) and the effect it had on your decision to pursue medicine. Or you can actually use the essay to enhance your medical school application. It's all straight with me brah.
Click to expand...

That was a very convincing argument.
 
This thread about "views on partying" is not at all what I was expecting 👎
 
i'll be the first to say this...

how the hell is taking care of your drunk friend an ethical dilemma?
 
Medicine4Bruhs said:
Word, well tell us about your significant moral dilemma you had when your friend was underage drinking (and you surely weren't) and the effect it had on your decision to pursue medicine. Or you can actually use the essay to enhance your medical school application. It's all straight with me brah.
Click to expand...
I like this guy.
 
ReptarBar said:
i'll be the first to say this...

how the hell is taking care of your drunk friend an ethical dilemma?
Click to expand...

Read the below quote. The dilemma is whether to abide by your friend's stated wishes despite the apparent incapacity, or to override it.

FCBarca1990 said:
I chose not to go into the situation in the interest of remaining anonymous but, in short, I was not intoxicated but had to take care of an underage friend who was. The friend was conscious but unable to take care of himself. As any friend would, I had to consider if medical help was required. Generally, amnesty is given, by policy, for EMS calls but there have recently been cases where an intoxicated student has gotten in trouble because EMS came with an officer.

My friend was not interested in risking getting caught but was too inebriated to make a decision for himself. I had to make a call as to whether to take the risk-which I ultimately and confidently did.

Also, in the second essay, I actually did not attend the event I planned because I was managing a very large student security force. However, I was more concerned by the image that I am choosing to portray myself as and the assumptions that adcoms may make.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
Click to expand...
 
that is so dumb lmao. it's not even a dilemma. if he DIDN'T call for help, he would be an idiot in terms of adcoms' eyes.

remember, health over everything else.

this is sort of similar to risking your license to perform a blood transfusion on a jehovah's witness. there is a clear answer.
 
ReptarBar said:
that is so dumb lmao. it's not even a dilemma. if he DIDN'T call for help, he would be an idiot in terms of adcoms' eyes.

remember, health over everything else.

this is sort of similar to risking your license to perform a blood transfusion on a jehovah's witness. there is a clear answer.
Click to expand...

You're certainly welcome to your own opinion on the matter. I would say that what he chose is a valid topic for discussion.
 
ReptarBar said:
that is so dumb lmao. it's not even a dilemma. if he DIDN'T call for help, he would be an idiot in terms of adcoms' eyes.

remember, health over everything else.

this is sort of similar to risking your license to perform a blood transfusion on a jehovah's witness. there is a clear answer.
Click to expand...

If the clear answer is to respect the person's wishes not to be transfused, then you're right.

Transporting a person who is intoxicated is not cut and dry, and for those that think it is, I respectfully ask you, how many times have you actually been in that situation? I was accepted at a school where I talked about my decision not to transport someone that was intoxicated. There are some very compelling arguments against it.
 
ponyo said:
Are you planning on going into bioethics for this essay? I can definitely see a connection between your decision and a physician making choices for a patient in an unstable mental state, which brings in questions of paternalism and all those fun arguments.
Click to expand...

I did talk briefly about paternalism tying into my concern but, given that it's a short essay, could not go into depth (at least to the extent that I have with a bioethics class I recently took heh). I figured though that anyone who read my response could glean that the fundamental issue is having to make a decision for someone else who can't, which is difficult when risks for that individual are involved.

It seems as though there are conflicting viewpoints on the validity of this topic. For those that are confused as to why this was an ethical issue for me, I can't explain it more than to say that my friend may or may not have been able to "sleep it off", and I knew that had he been able to make it home, that's probably what he would have done. I was not sure whether his health was a risk worth taking though, so I struggled with what to do, in the end calling EMS without his consent. Should I have done this? I think my decision is definitely still worth debating.
 
Good topic and definitely something that probably a lot of doctors have to deal with, in particularly those working in ER. Take example of someone who overdosed on illicit drugs; despite all the illegal things that the patient might have done, the doctor(s) still go out of there way to do their job and not worry about the legal consequences that said patient might be under.

Glad that drinking policy was overturned. I understand universities trying to enforce penalties for those underage or drinking in general, but most should realize that it will be done regardless, and as such that the health of the student is of greater priority than the fact that they might have broken the alcohol policy. Said drunk friend probably was able to sleep it off at home or a hospital and was able to go back to class the next day with just a hangover, better than if others were too scared to help and let the guy seriously injure himself or possibly die.
 
FCBarca1990 said:
Should I have done this? I think my decision is definitely still worth debating.
Click to expand...

It's always better to err on the side of caution, I think. It sounds like you did the right thing. An alternative would have been to stay with him until he showed signs of not being dangerously intoxicated, but that's sort of beyond the call of duty for a friend.
 
it doesn't seem like a huge debate to me. OP was unsure of his friend's status...it seems logical to take the safer route.

but i see what you guys are saying.
 
Astarael said:
I disagree. External ethical problems can be very difficult to resolve, since the benefits and consequences are not yours to bear. A lot of people don't have to deal with anything difficult since their parents tend to shelter them from decisions like this. College drinking is the first exposure for a lot of people (it definitely was for me).

Edit: In addition, the level of difficulty you have making an external decision is somewhat indicative of your empathy in the situation. If you didn't have any, the decision would be easy. Call the police-done. It is because the OP could empathize with his/her friend that this was an issue. I think that's a good thing.
Click to expand...

Right, but I'm also not sure if it's a particularly unique experience. It's one that happens to most people in college at least once--if not multiple times. Honestly I think it's on the same level as the "my friend cheated and I struggled with whether to tell" essay.. IMHO.

And it's not really a debate, but it's pretty straightforward to say that your friend had no right to consent. I took an EMT class and we were specifically instructed that certain people (children, the mentally ill, people without an orientation of self/location/time) cannot give consent on their own or refuse treatment/transport.
 
Soulstice said:
Right, but I'm also not sure if it's a particularly unique experience. It's one that happens to most people in college at least once--if not multiple times. Honestly I think it's on the same level as the "my friend cheated and I struggled with whether to tell" essay.. IMHO.
Click to expand...

The question though is whether you have anything that qualifies as a larger dilemma. I mean, if you had a dying family member ask you to help make a decision on end of life care, then yeah, I'd say the "My friend was drinking," essay would be a bit foolish. But a lot of people don't get into morally ambiguous situations that frequently. You have to write the essay about something you know about.
 
ReptarBar said:
this is sort of similar to risking your license to perform a blood transfusion on a jehovah's witness. there is a clear answer.
Click to expand...

Yes, and that answer is to try to resuscitate without blood products. If that fails you follow their wishes and they die. You absolutely do not give blood to people who have "NO BLOOD" cards in their wallet. Thats going to end you with an assault charge.



To the OP. I think the first one is too risky when you're likely writing for 40+ year olds to read. I also agree with some of the people here that its kind of a lame ethical dilemma. You can't come up with anything else?

The second one is fine but I would focus on the leadership of planning the event.
 
For there to be a dilemma, don't you need to have a risk and a benefit for each option....e.g. If I call for help, my friend will get the help he needs but I might get in trouble for drinking vs. if I don't call for help, my friend might be at a slight risk of a bad outcome but I'll avoid being written up.

Sometimes these conflicts are presented as getting a friend the help that's needed vs.keeping a promise not to reveal something you were told in confidence. So you help save a friend's life by getting them professional help but lose their friendship by betraying their trust (although they might come around when they get well) vs. keeping your word although your friend's health spirals downward.

Isn't a dilemma the decision to have fun socially by drinking at an age or in a situation where it isn't allowed or to obey the school rules and be tagged by your associates as a prissy goody-two-shoes?
 
Suncrusher said:
unless it's their <18 kid who needs the transfusion to avoid dying 😉 right?
Click to expand...

Actually if the kid was old enough to speak intelligently on the topic (say >12 or 13) and was still awake - I would ask the kid if they wanted the blood.

If they were unconscious I would call hospital legal and the ethics committee while the blood was being crossed. I personally would prefer not to go against a parents wish if at all possible but would follow the legal and ethical advise given to me.
 
My school is one of the few that don't offer medical amnesty.

First offense is a fine and communty service. second is loss of housing, third expulsion.

Working EMS on my campus is tough. NO ONE CALLS US. We have had multiple near death cases because people are afraid of the concequences. I keep bring up the idea of a policy change but no one will have any of it. Unfortunately I think it will take a student dying to make the point.

Another problem is that we have never had an EMS head who wasn't empolyed by campus police. Our Advisor is a former cop.

For most alcohol evals that I do now, there is a portion of the assessment that I wait for the officers to leave to room. If that chance doesn't arise I make an excuse for them to leave. You will never get someone to admit to drug use when a police officer is within earshot.
 
senorsquishie said:
My school is one of the few that don't offer medical amnesty.

First offense is a fine and communty service. second is loss of housing, third expulsion.

Working EMS on my campus is tough. NO ONE CALLS US. We have had multiple near death cases because people are afraid of the concequences. I keep bring up the idea of a policy change but no one will have any of it. Unfortunately I think it will take a student dying to make the point.

Another problem is that we have never had an EMS head who wasn't empolyed by campus police. Our Advisor is a former cop.

For most alcohol evals that I do now, there is a portion of the assessment that I wait for the officers to leave to room. If that chance doesn't arise I make an excuse for them to leave. You will never get someone to admit to drug use when a police officer is within earshot.
Click to expand...
Somehow what your school is doing doesn't seem ethical, besides being dangerous to boot.
 
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