Virginia Commonwealth (VCU)

[theroadshow]

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Could people who have information on the status of the VCU interview process please share that information? In speaking with fellow interviewers at some top schools in the past month, I have learned that there are a significant number of this cycle's top applicants who have not heard from VCU, yet I know that a number of candidates with much lesser qualifications have already gotten VCU interviews (including out-of-staters) Does VCU have a special mission (e.g., Howard, Meharry) that I am not aware of?

Thanks for the help in advance!!

 

[Epictetus21]

When the director of admissions visited my school last year he told us that VCU is one of the schools that likes well rounded, complete applicants. Grades and DAT will only get you so far. They have been around long enough to realize that they are going to have to live with the people they admit for four years, so they look for people who will be a good fit for their school and their community (which by the way, is a very conservative, family friendly area). They weigh personality, service, life experience, maturity, etc. almost as heavily as the raw numbers. I personally like that approach. I've known enough cocky predents in my day to know that even if they have a 3.8 GPA and 22 DAT, their personalities make me doubt very much that they will get along well with their classmates in dental school. I think VCU has admitted enough of those types in the past to know that that's not who they want at their school. The director of admissions told us that he would rather take someone with a 3.2 GPA that has a good personality, cares about people, and will be a pleasure to work with for four years, over a person with perfect stats and a crappy personality. It's not because they are struggling to get people with good scores, they have made a conscious choice to look at more than the superficial.

 

[theroadshow]

I hardly think VCU is unique in wanting well-rounded people. When I speak about the cycle's top applicants, I mean much more than grades and DAT. I'm talking work experience, publications, career changers, and the like. I agree that some of the Ivy's look strictly at scores, but most of the so-called top 5 schools (e.g., your UNC's, UW's, etc) really look for well rounded people.

I'm wondering if the VCU issue has more to do with them not wanting to bring in "over qualified people" who they strongly believe are using VCU as a backup. It doesn't seem like a good strategy on their part, but it is really the only plausible explanation given the caliber of some of the applicants that I have spoken to who have not gotten VCU interviews yet.

 

[informatique]

I'm really hoping to get an interview at VCU since I loved it there when I took a tour of the school. My AADSAS application status for VCU has stated "Application Received" for 1.5 months now...and I'm definitely not one of the "over-qualified" people lol

 

[scottyhoop]

When the director of admissions visited my school last year he told us that VCU is one of the schools that likes well rounded, complete applicants. Grades and DAT will only get you so far. They have been around long enough to realize that they are going to have to live with the people they admit for four years, so they look for people who will be a good fit for their school and their community (which by the way, is a very conservative, family friendly area). They weigh personality, service, life experience, maturity, etc. almost as heavily as the raw numbers. I personally like that approach. I've known enough cocky predents in my day to know that even if they have a 3.8 GPA and 22 DAT, their personalities make me doubt very much that they will get along well with their classmates in dental school. I think VCU has admitted enough of those types in the past to know that that's not who they want at their school. The director of admissions told us that he would rather take someone with a 3.2 GPA that has a good personality, cares about people, and will be a pleasure to work with for four years, over a person with perfect stats and a crappy personality. It's not because they are struggling to get people with good scores, they have made a conscious choice to look at more than the superficial.

Well said! The dean said the same to me, and will openly admit he is looking for people that will fit in the school. He seems to be really into the "we are in this for 4 years together" approach and wants to make sure he picks the right people. I highly doubt that they don't invite people because they feel like VCU would be a backup plan for them. VCU is an exceptional clinical school, so they have no reason to avoid who you might call top applicants this cycle. I would hope no school out there considers themselves not good enough for the best pre-dents out there. A school with that approach would be quite scary in my opinion!
Scott

 

[theroadshow]

Well said! The dean said the same to me, and will openly admit he is looking for people that will fit in the school.

What does that mean though? If they are not bringing in applicants with top GPA's, top DAT scores, top dental experience, and top volunteer experience, then what ARE they looking for?

Also, does anyone have any stats on how many people they are interviewing for each spot or how far they are along with the interview process?

 

[theroadshow]

Anyone?

 

[Master Pain]

hmmmm. This is the magical question to which we wonder "why?" and never seem to get the answer to. Roadshow, historically VCU has interview approx 300 folks for approx 100 seats (althought there are actually 110 students per class). d.5 program usually fills other 10 seats. Also, an agreement of some kind exists between Utah and the commonwealth to set aside "X" number of spots (i think 12). Do a search within this forum to learn more on this matter. It has been discussed in the past at exhuastion. Good luck and God Bless!
Dan

 

[Master Pain]

also, keep in mind that the application pool for VCU has been around 3,000 and is usually full to the brim with candidates that will "fit in". Personally I believe the dean's job to be a difficult one. Not everyone who deserves an interview gets one. I would recommend keeping in close contact via email with the dean of the shcools you are applying to...appearing very interested may increase the odds of scoring the interview.

 

[theroadshow]

It's just kind of odd. Their admissions stats (GPA, DAT, etc) are much lower than avg. I think they really must be aware that they might not be a 1st choice by many and are trying to avoid the most qualified applicants who might ultimately turn them down. That can be the only explanation after talking to some people at other interviews who had literally gotten interviews at every school they applied to except for VCU. I've met multiple people in that same situation at various interviews including UPenn, UNC, and Maryland.

 

[Master Pain]

it is plausible. Interesting theory. I do agree that DR. Healy is looking for the students with great qualifications AND that are likely to accept his offer. Keep in mind too, the sample of candidates you speak of may not have expressed any more interest in the school other than submitting the app. In addition, your sample is likely a small one out of a much larger population.

 

[GNF8300]

I think they really must be aware that they might not be a 1st choice by many and are trying to avoid the most qualified applicants who might ultimately turn them down.

If VCU's not their first choice and the people will most likely not attend if accepted, I don't think this would be unreasonable. I doubt this is what the admissions dept is doing though. Maybe VCU puts more emphasis on the personal statement, LOR, or intentions after graduation. I understand the apprehension about not getting an interview, but I'm not sure why you're so anxious to speculate that VCU is somehow screening out qualified people arbitrarily. It took me a while to hear from them, so maybe your letter will arrive yet.

 

[Master Pain]

in agreement w/ above post. I know that VCU (and most others) are very interested in post-grad intentions. well stated.

 

[theroadshow]

I can shed some more light on this now. I just spoke to a friend who recently contacted Dr. Healy about the status of his app. This is a guy who has gotten early interviews at every school he applied to. And he's gotten the "you're in" wink from all of them. (Don't ask, if you've gotten the wink, you'll know it) So, I need not give his credentials -- they are top notch. Dr. Healy responded to him that he was lacking in some upper level science courses and that's why he wasn't selected for an interview, which is a strange response because he nailed the science portion of the DAT.

Nevertheless, this guy is a Virginia resident with top stats, wants to practice in Virginia, and would still LOVE to go to VCU. He's keeping his hopes up, but something truly "unique" is going on with the selection of candidates to interview at VCU. They have some of the lowest indicators (GPA, DAT scores) of all the dental schools, so I guess it's still confusing as to what they are looking for. Like I said, this one friend of mine isn't unique. I've met some other folks in the same situation at various interviews.

 

[scottyhoop]

You've stated in a few posts now about how VCU is not interviewing the best students/interviews students with below standard stats, etc.... Since it sounds like you're not that hot on the school and you've attended other interviews why are you so concerned?

 

[theroadshow]

I didn't say that I wasn't hot on the school. Yes, reserving 1/5 of the seats for mormon students and that sort of thing is a little dubious since they don't explicitly state a specific mission to do so. But in all seriousness, I would like to go to the school. It just doesn't seem like I can do anything about it if they are going to follow an admissions protocol that is different from every other school that I have applied to. This guy I was mentioning before has a perfect track record so far on getting interviews and VCU has BY FAR the lowest admissions stats of any school he applied to. Plus, he's IN-STATE for Virginia. I don't have his stats, but I also feel like I'm getting a raw deal. If they are going to take my money, and are not going to tell me that some of the most qualified, in-state applicants will be overlooked in favor of some ethnically driven approach, then that does upset me.

 

[GNF8300]

I've heard some discussion about how VCU is focusing on selecting students that will become general dentists in some underserved suburban and rural parts of VA-which makes sense since it is a state school. If I was them, I would look for people with roots in VA (look at their SW VA initiative on the website) in one of these regions (as opposed to people who live in Northern VA where dentists are plentiful). The in-state applications are probably scrutinized more heavily than in most other states due to the amount of in-state students accepted (compare VCU's in-state % to somewhere like UGA).

Also, if the school is trying to produce more general practitioners, then if somebody indicates in their personal statement that they want absolutely want to specialize, then that might affect how the adcom considers their application, especially if they have great stats and would likely get into any dental school of their choice.

Now there's nothing wrong with specializing, but you have to take into account the goals of the dental school also. I don't know anything about your friend besides what you've written. Also, I'm strickly speculating as to what the adcom is taking into account, but I just wanted to let you know that there may be a number of factors at work beyond just the applicant's competency. The thing about state schools is that they are there expressly to meet the dental needs of their state, and these needs can vary greatly from state to state and year to year. It comes down to choosing the best people to meet the right goals.

 

[theroadshow]

That was a very substantive post GNF8300. Thanks for the info. I don't necessarily agree with the approach they are taking, but I think that your explanation is very plausible.

 

[GNF8300]

Just trying to shed some light on the situation. Like I said, I don't know the specific approach they're taking, but that's my best guess as to what's happening.

 

[ryanaj]

VCU may have a different screening process than every other school, but it is obvious they do have a screening process. Whatever it is, it probably meets the mission of the school and they have the luxury of using it since most applicants far exceed minimum qualifications. Besides if every school interviewed the same 100 people they would all have a problem on their hands come Dec. 1.
Although, I have wondered why I haven't got the invite from them (since my stats are better than what I see on predents, my application is fairly well-rounded, I've been invited to 11 pre-December interviews so far, and a plug for the guy who thinks they only want mormons - I am one) I'm not too worried because the exceptional people will get in to a school (unless they aren't as exceptional as they think they are ). So my advice: Don't get upset because VCU has decided to accept people based on some criteria you didn't think of, because I am sure everyone invited to interview there is qualified.

 

[maxxdental]

because I am sure everyone invited to interview there is qualified.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I just did the math. Of all dental students matriculating last year, VCU matriculants were in the bottom 15% by GPA and sGPA. They are ranked something like 45 out of 55 in those categories. They are down in Howard and Meharry type numbers. They are definitely using some affirmative action type method for picking students, whether that means mormon students, students from the sticks of Virginia, or something else.

 

[scottyhoop]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I just did the math. Of all dental students matriculating last year, VCU matriculants were in the bottom 15% by GPA and sGPA. They are ranked something like 45 out of 55 in those categories. They are down in Howard and Meharry type numbers. They are definitely using some affirmative action type method for picking students, whether that means mormon students, students from the sticks of Virginia, or something else.

Do some research on specializing and residency placement of VCU grads before you say the people they interview/select are not qualified. While they may have lower GPA's than people that goto what some may consider the top schools, it by no means they are not qualified. There's a lot more to being a good dentist than book smarts. I believe the number was close to or even at 100% last year of VCU grads who wanted to continue on that got residency/specialty spots. Since those students are competing for those spots against every other student in the country who wishes to continue on after dental school, I'd say they are doing a pretty good job in their selection process. To say VCU is not choosing "qualified" applicants is totally inaccurate.
Scott

 

[maxxdental]

To say VCU is not choosing "qualified" applicants is totally inaccurate.
Scott

You are right, they are not "unqualified", they are "underqualified". I never said they were "unqualified". But the numbers show that VCU is not getting the best candidates, unless you think the best candidates have 3.3 GPAs and 19 DAT scores. Out of every 100 students who get into a dental school, VCU would get one of the ones from the lower 15, academically speaking. Meaning that there are 85 more academically competent people out there. That's exactly the story that the numbers tell. Sure, the dentists from VCU are competent; VCU would be shut down if they weren't producing competent dentists. As would Howard or Meharry. A Yugo will get you down the road, but it's not going to handle like a Mercedes. There are different levels of performance.

 

[TeethandGums]

Do some research on specializing and residency placement of VCU grads before you say the people they interview/select are not qualified. While they may have lower GPA's than people that goto what some may consider the top schools, it by no means they are not qualified. There's a lot more to being a good dentist than book smarts. I believe the number was close to or even at 100% last year of VCU grads who wanted to continue on that got residency/specialty spots. Since those students are competing for those spots against every other student in the country who wishes to continue on after dental school, I'd say they are doing a pretty good job in their selection process. To say VCU is not choosing "qualified" applicants is totally inaccurate.
Scott

Great point, everyone admitted into dental schools, do not come from the same educational background (some more rigorous than others), so judgements of dental schools should be placed how their students fair upon graduation.

 

[maxxdental]

how their students fair upon graduation.

This is what I mean. Sure, this phrase makes sense, but if you wrote "fair" instead of the proper "fare" in a letter to an educated patient, it would make you appear to be closer to the Yugo than to the Mercedes.

 

[TeethandGums]

This is what I mean. Sure, this phrase makes sense, but if you wrote "fair" instead of the proper "fare" in a letter to an educated patient, it would make you appear to be closer to the Yugo than to the Mercedes.

For real?!!!, u wanna get silly wit english on a online web blog. Oh excuse me, i must be even more less competant because I didn't spell or speak properly in my previous sentence. Why do people like you get online and post comments, then cry when someone disagrees. You understood my message, please grow up soon!! There are enough problems in the world, we don't need babies running our future dental clinics.

 

[Roto Picante]

Maxxdent, trashtalking people like that just makes you sound like an idiot. Have you ever made a typing error before? You obviously seem to think that you are a mercedes as you put it. If I were a member of an adcom at Meharry, Howard, or VCU (which you seem to think are trash) I wouldn't accept you into my school even if you had a 30 on the DAT and a 4.0 GPA. You obviously have no tact. Be nice for goodness sake.

 

[GNF8300]

I think we've gotten off topic. Putting someone down personally is out of bounds, but to say a particular school's applicants are underqualified as a whole is in bounds and (I believe) inaccurate. It's a lovely blanket statement, but do any of us know VCU students are underqualified? Tell me if you can look only at a 3.3 GPA and 19 AA and determine what kind of dentist the person will be. Personally, I can't. Anyway, the average GPA as listed on the school's website is 3.5 - that's pretty respectable. It's no Harvard, but they don't require you to sign over your first born to pay for it either.

 

[Aceofspades]

You are right, they are not "unqualified", they are "underqualified". I never said they were "unqualified". But the numbers show that VCU is not getting the best candidates, unless you think the best candidates have 3.3 GPAs and 19 DAT scores. Out of every 100 students who get into a dental school, VCU would get one of the ones from the lower 15, academically speaking. Meaning that there are 85 more academically competent people out there. That's exactly the story that the numbers tell. Sure, the dentists from VCU are competent; VCU would be shut down if they weren't producing competent dentists. As would Howard or Meharry. A Yugo will get you down the road, but it's not going to handle like a Mercedes. There are different levels of performance.

I always laugh when I hear people say this. The truth is that many people applying to DS are qualified and can do a great job if granted an acceptance. If you think a 3.3 and 19 DAT makes someone under-qualified, then what do you think of the dentists who went to school in the 80's, 90's and even 2000's. Just a few years ago the average DAT and GPA were noticeably less than they are today, but those dental students and/or dentists were qualified when they went to school and are still qualified now. Have you ever gone to the dentist? Do you know what his or her GPA and DAT scores were? They were probably in the range of what you would consider under-qualified. I'm surprised you're still alive after receiving treatment from such under-qualified dentists. In my opinion a 3.3/19 does not make someone under-qualified, but being a pompous jerk does. I sure wouldn't want you treating me, despite your holy GPA and DAT scores.

 

[Master Pain]

does anyone seriously think candidates gaining entrance into ANY dental school are underqualified???!!!! wow.
Take this into consideration - Scenario: someone ruins their GPA by bombing a few classes in fresh/soph year, then consistently earns A's in every single class thereafter including upper level kick-me-in-the-butt sciences (and does a bit of growing up while he/she is at it). The kid didn't have it together to begin with but pulls through for the last 3-4 years of classes. GPA takes some time and a ton of perfect credits to fix. This someone also is a tremendous contributor to the underserved population. Now let's say this person earns BS, is working, started a family, and STILL scores decently on DAT.

VCU says, "hmmm...let's check him out." yeah, not the average candidate but certainly worth the look don't ya think? Should the dean punish this person for screwing up as a kid, or recognize committed, long-term, dentally oriented, HARD work when he sees it. BTW, VCU is a great school with many highly qualified students who would be horrified with this post.

Yes, it's me. Take it easy on us "underqualified" individuals. It undermines years of personal sacrifice. Yes, you have worked hard too I know. But then again, EVERYONE that scored an interview ANYWHERE did

Love and props to all you hard-working predents 🙂

 

[theroadshow]

Yeah, this has gotten way beyond the original scope of my question. But I do agree to some degree with maxdental. A number of people have gotten defensive (particularly VCU hopefuls), but in all seriousness, not everyone is a star. There is a such a thing as mediocrity. And the statistics do show that VCU takes mediocre people when compared to the overall dental school pool. Certainly these folks are above the avg of US citizens. To be a dentist takes considerable talent. BUT, VCU dental students are statistically below avg for dental students. The facts absolutely support that claim. And a claim to the contrary really shows an ignorance of numbers.

 

[Aceofspades]

Yeah, this has gotten way beyond the original scope of my question. But I do agree to some degree with maxdental. A number of people have gotten defensive (particularly VCU hopefuls), but in all seriousness, not everyone is a star. There is a such a thing as mediocrity. And the statistics do show that VCU takes mediocre people when compared to the overall dental school pool. Certainly these folks are above the avg of US citizens. To be a dentist takes considerable talent. BUT, VCU dental students are statistically below avg for dental students. The facts absolutely support that claim. And a claim to the contrary really shows an ignorance of numbers.

Ok... my last post went completely over your head. I will not repost it here, so refer to post #29 in this thread.

 

[theroadshow]

Maybe it went over your head. Have you personally witnessed a 60 yr old dentist attempt to learn how to use a CEREC machine? It's a struggle. What many don't get is that the skill set has changed. To be a dentist now is completely different. It sounds like you haven't done enough shadowing or been a dental assistant/hygienist.

 

[Epictetus21]

Maybe it went over your head. Have you personally witnessed a 60 yr old dentist attempt to learn how to use a CEREC machine? It's a struggle. What many don't get is that the skill set has changed. To be a dentist now is completely different. It sounds like you haven't done enough shadowing or been a dental assistant/hygienist.

This new member reminds me of a former argumentative little gadfly named whoispittsnogle.

 

[GNF8300]

Agreed.

Side note - statistics of the dental school pool as layed out on predents and the ADEA guide don't sync with the different schools' (plural) websites (sometimes higher and sometimes lower). If those are the "facts", they should be double-checked.

 

[Master Pain]

Let us get back to the original question. So what does it ultimately take to get an interview at VCU then...what the heck are they looking for if it doesn't appear to be the best scores on standardized tests/GPA!?!? Do what I did. Ask the Assistant Dean himself.

Roadshow, he'll be straight w/u and give you advice tailored to your "portfolio," if you will. My experience w/Dr. Healy has been a good one.
Best of luck dude, and don't give up. They interview for spots thru Feb sometimes.

 

[jaypea65]

Maybe it went over your head. Have you personally witnessed a 60 yr old dentist attempt to learn how to use a CEREC machine? It's a struggle. What many don't get is that the skill set has changed. To be a dentist now is completely different. It sounds like you haven't done enough shadowing or been a dental assistant/hygienist.

Could you please explain how you think that the skill sets have changed for dentists over the years? I know that the materials have changed, but what new skills must a dentist have. My dentist doesn't use a CEREC machine, but he does use a Waterlase laser to perform some perio stuff. He sends all of his crown and bridge work to a local lab (costs him about 125 per crown and charges 600). He metioned that his lab just purchased a new state of the art machine for crowns, and he showed me some. Very realistic looking stuff with no metal core (can't remember the name though). I watched him place an allograft in a patient that had some serious gum recession....way cool. One thing that I do not understand is why people would want to specialize. He performs 95% of his endo, performs perio, and he even said that he is considering some ortho. I guess not bad for a general dentist.👍

 

[informatique]

Let us get back to the original question. So what does it ultimately take to get an interview at VCU then...what the heck are they looking for if it doesn't appear to be the best scores on standardized tests/GPA!?!? Do what I did. Ask the Assistant Dean himself.

Roadshow, he'll be straight w/u and give you advice tailored to your "portfolio," if you will. My experience w/Dr. Healy has been a good one.
Best of luck dude, and don't give up. They interview for spots thru Feb sometimes.

You called the dean even if you haven't received a rejection or interview invite?

If we haven't received an interview invite by now, does that mean we did not qualify for the pre-Dec 1st round?

 

[Master Pain]

inform'tq - I had a sit down with him prior to the cycle, and then have been in contact with him continuously for some time now. I have specifically asked what he wants to see from me in order to put me in the game. Most advice came pre-season, but I don't see why you couldn't email anytime to feel him out and seek some direction.

Also, no I don't believe your out of luck for Pre-Dec interviews. I called to sched mine and the office offered 5 different days through the end of NOV. to me, it would appear that there are still spots open for intervieweees. Again, ask him that question straight - "do you have interview spots left?". Don't beat around the bush.
hope it helps, Peace
Dan

 

[SmilingHokie]

Wow. Don't really know where to start here. I'm a 2nd year dental student at VCU and can say without a doubt that we have NO unqualifeid/underqualified people in our class. While I don't know about the class dynamics at other schools, I am in awe of the type of people we have at our school. We are roughly 50/50 when it come to people entering straight out of college and people who are a little older and have more life experience. In my class, we have a naval academy grad who flew planes for the navy, an old high school band teacher, a girl who was an account manager for a multi million dollar company, someone who worked in a cancer research center for years, and a guy who got his PhD from Cornell in statistics. Its a crazy bunch from VERY different aspects of life. I commend Dr. Healy for how he goes about putting the classes together. What I can say is that you should talk to Dr. Healy and ask him what he thinks about your application. He is very honest. We have many people in my class that reapplied after getting his advice and got in. Be optimistic and dont diss on VCU. It is an amazing school. And being a person with multiple acceptances at very good schools, I can honestly say that this is the best possibly school I could have ever picked. Good luck to everyone.

 

[Master Pain]

well said smiling hokie. Hope to run into you in the halls next fall.
Dan

 

[DDSguyLA]

who is Dr. Haley and how can I contact him??
i need to know whats going on with my app?

 

[scottyhoop]

who is Dr. Haley and how can I contact him??
i need to know whats going on with my app?

He's the Assistant Dean of Admissions....look on their website for the admissions office and you will find him. He's the man when it comes to applications. Best of luck!!
Scott

 

[DentalGal2005]

I am at VCU now. I am appalled how some of you are describing the VCU class. "Under-qualified?" "Mediocre?" I whole heartedly disagree. Everyone there, is there for a reason. I for one did not have a great undergraduate GPA. Actually, it was borderline horrible. (gasp a 2.7!) However, after I graduated I took all those upper level bios that Healy told me to take and I got all A's. Sometimes it takes a while to grow up and get serious, but it does happen. Good luck to all of you who are truly trying to get into VCU. It is amazing. I hope they do a great job of building a class this year. I know Dr. Healy knows what he is doing.

 

[Doc Ock]

In the stat driven world of admissions, people forget dentistry is about the hands. I have seen many a book smart dental student that can't cut their way out of a paper bag. There are intuitive dentists that are not very book smart. Don't get me wrong, dentistry is a profession and we are doctors so the mind is important...it is not about jewelry making. But it is about the hands...and how those hands interact with patients. Research oriented, book smart, high stat driven schools (Er...subliminal whisper... Harvard...er) often have the poorest performing clinical dentists.

 

[rocknightmare]

everyone needs to relax and take a chill pill here.. from admin meeting i been to - Dr. Healy explained to us his process of selecting interview candidates -- his goal is to get the top applicants, but the top applicants that will mesh well in a class