Virginia Tech vs IU

[effectedtag]

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I would like to preface by saying I would love to attend the medical school that will give me the greatest opportunities for pursuing a competitive residency in the future since I am relatively undecided on a specialty.

Virginia Tech

Pros

• Roughly 56K cheaper just including tuition and fees over 4 years
• Integrated research time. Heavy emphasis on research.
• NBME exams. No in-house exams.
• M1/M2 and shelf exams in M3 years are all P/F (pass/fail). However, there is an honor/distinction system that takes into account exam scores, reviews from your preceptors, and other factors. There is no cap on those that can honor, as many people can honor as long as you meet the requirements.
• small class size ~45 so personal connection to make sure you succeed, 100% match rate.
• Rotations all at the same hospital. Students said they were sometimes only medical students in the outpatient clinic, first assist in surgeries etc. (could be seen as a con)
• Systems-based curriculum
• 1 week of exams at the end of the block then a bonus week after the exams to make up exams/mental health break.
• Recorded science lectures.

Cons

• PBL roughly 3 times a week, need to make presentations to present to your small group (students said this can be annoying)
• VTC is relatively new, lesser ranked, and the hospital attached does not represent all specialties. I.e missing ortho, ophthalmology, ENT, and much more.
• I heard bench research is heavy but clinical research is sometimes hard to come by.
• Far from support network ~12-hour drive and small city.
• I would need to take an additional class in the summer to meet matriculation requirements.

IUSM- Northwest Gary Campus

Pros

• Close to support network ~30 min drive
• IU is well established, represents all specialties, ranked higher than VTC.
• Recorded lectures given to all students at all statewide campuses.
• NBME is given for the final of each block. Small group quizzes, not graded, for understanding. Normal exams (3-4) are based on the block that is made by the exam management team from all campuses. Similar to practice questions from class textbooks, small group "quizzes", BRS, or grays anatomy
• True Pass/fail pre-clinical years. Honors, HP, Pass, Fail for clinical years.
• Passing is 66.5% and at least 62% on the NBME final.
• Small class size on Northwest campus ~25 people per class (maybe a con?)

Cons

• Accepted to the urban medicine program (UMP) forces me to stay at the Northwest campus for all 4 years. Cannot go to Indy for 3rd and 4th years, missing out on the academic type of rotations.
• Will only be able to do my core rotations at the 9 area hospitals around Northwest Indy, which are a lot of community places. I feel like this will be bad for securing competitive residencies, making connections, and pursuing clinical research with faculty.
• There is bench research going on at NW campus but I feel like clinical might be lacking. Not sure how easy it is to get involved with faculty from Indy on clinical research?
• small group sessions every day 1-3 hours a day normally.
• traditional curriculum.
• more expensive ~54K
• UMP program emphasizes primary care and other specialties of need in medically underserved communities

Essentially, IU is more established and has access to all specialties, and is close to my support network. However, I am stuck at a branch campus which I feel like would limit opportunities? VTC is less established, far from my support network, slightly cheaper, missing some specialty home programs but maybe the heavy research curriculum might make me more competitive?

I would love to hear any and all thoughts!

 

[chilly_md]

VTech is tempting with the cheaper tuition and easier access to research. I am not sure how interested you are in being in Gary, but as somebody not from Indiana, I would recommend VTech since you won’t be at one of the bigger IU campuses and probably one of the least desired ones amongst accepted students. It sounds very limiting there. That extra class is kind of annoying but I assume as long as you pass, it will work and hopefully you can take it at a nearby college or online.

 

[effectedtag]

Thank you for your input! The whole support network thing is also making this decision very difficult. I am also on the waitlist for 4 schools and 2 of them would probably be my top choices, Jefferson and Minnesota, if I got off.

 

[chilly_md]

Yeah being within 30 minutes is very nice. I’m not familiar with the campus and current conditions of the surrounding area, but that is probably the main criticisms for this branch of IU.

 

[pigsinacloth]

Maybe try to reach out to IU and see if they can put you in contact with a current student. They might be able to help you figure out how obtaining research from a branch campus works and answer some of the unknowns.

 

[effectedtag]

Does anyone else have any opinions, I am really struggling with this decision.

 

[dr.donkey]

I’m in at Vt and Illinois right now, and interviewing with Drexel on Tuesday and so I am struggling with a very similar situation! Right now I’d say that VT is my #1, assuming that I don’t get in to Drexel. I’m leaning VT bc I’m a Virginia resident and being close to my family and hometown is a huge positive. I also think the smaller class size is a benefit, as it allows for a more personalized education and the chance to make deep connections with fellow classmates and professors. The limited specialty problem is something I’ve considered as well, however I feel that with a consistently perfect or near perfect match rate, they do a good job of helping you get where you want to go. Additionally, I have a strong background in research and would like to continue with this, making VT a naturally excellent choice. I also like that their medical school and research institution are connected- some may say it feels small/cramped, but to me that just emphasizes the unique translational aspect of the curriculum.
I am choosing VT over UICOM because of the ridiculous OOS tuition at UICOM and because I don’t want to live in Peoria for 4 years 🙃.

 

[effectedtag]

I’m in at Vt and Illinois right now, and interviewing with Drexel on Tuesday and so I am struggling with a very similar situation! Right now I’d say that VT is my #1, assuming that I don’t get in to Drexel. I’m leaning VT bc I’m a Virginia resident and being close to my family and hometown is a huge positive. I also think the smaller class size is a benefit, as it allows for a more personalized education and the chance to make deep connections with fellow classmates and professors. The limited specialty problem is something I’ve considered as well, however I feel that with a consistently perfect or near perfect match rate, they do a good job of helping you get where you want to go. Additionally, I have a strong background in research and would like to continue with this, making VT a naturally excellent choice. I also like that their medical school and research institution are connected- some may say it feels small/cramped, but to me that just emphasizes the unique translational aspect of the curriculum.
I am choosing VT over UICOM because of the ridiculous OOS tuition at UICOM and because I don’t want to live in Peoria for 4 years 🙃.

I am also worried about clinical research opportunities at VTC. It seems like there is a lot of bench research, however, nowadays it seems it is more about the number of publications, especially for competitive specialties so bench research really is not conducive to getting publications out.

 

[chilly_md]

I am also worried about clinical research opportunities at VTC. It seems like there is a lot of bench research, however, nowadays it seems it is more about the number of publications, especially for competitive specialties so bench research really is not conducive to getting publications out.

They seem to have research more focused on certain specialties and that doesn't involve wet lab work/basic science work under the Carilon Clinic:

Research Opportunities

medicine.vtc.vt.edu

 

[effectedtag]

They seem to have research more focused on certain specialties and that doesn't involve wet lab work/basic science work under the Carilon Clinic:

Research Opportunities

medicine.vtc.vt.edu

What I found really strange is there was one student who matched plastics this year at the home program (VTC) but a search on PubMed/Google Scholar brings up no pubs. It seems like they had abstracts presented at conferences and must have made a good impression on the home program but the research output was unusual for a plastics match.

 

[chilly_md]

What I found really strange is there was one student who matched plastics this year at the home program (VTC) but a search on PubMed/Google Scholar brings up no pubs. It seems like they had abstracts presented at conferences and must have made a good impression on the home program but the research output was unusual for a plastics match.

Yes that is indeed unusual. Perhaps the student published under a different, longer legal name, but I guess you can see the labs publications as a whole anyway under the PI’s name. So that is odd.

 

[effectedtag]

Just to add, I can go to Indy for rotations I am interested in. i.e. do general surgery and then ortho electives etc. Students said you have to reach out more and things won’t be handed to you but you can reach out for research opportunities at Indy for clinical research but it will have to be more zoom based meetings. You can also get letters from the academics there in Indy for the specialty you’re interested in.

It will be about 100k more expensive over 4 years (without interest) with housing/tuition at IU since northwest Indiana rent has gone up substantially since the pandemic


Exams are every 2 weeks with traditional curriculum.


VTC has bench research but seems to be lacking on clinical research and home programs. They also have one exam week every 8 weeks that consists of NBME basic science exam, a faculty made clinical exam, faculty anatomy exam, 2 other clinical exams one ultrasound and one standardized patient. There is also a research exam, yes they have mandatory research class twice a week where you learn stats etc. and expected to solve problems on the exam. After exam week there is a week off. VTC is 100k cheaper with more mandatory class time. In fact they are also moving away from basic science exams and starting to expect students to come in for flipped classroom for those.

 

[chilly_md]

I would follow the money as the difference is now double because of living costs and I don’t think IU is worth that. Particularly if you will be doing a lot of zoom meetings for clinical research.

 

[effectedtag]

I would follow the money as the difference is now double because of living costs and I don’t think IU is worth that. Particularly if you will be doing a lot of zoom meetings for clinical research.

Even with the lack of home programs in many specialties forcing me to do tons of away rotations if I become interested in one of them?

 

[chilly_md]

Even with the lack of home programs in many specialties forcing me to do tons of away rotations if I become interested in one of them?

It seems iffy about whether you will actually end up doing rotations in Indianapolis

 

[effectedtag]

I still need some help making a decision. If anyone could provide some insight that would be great. I provided more content in some of the replies above.

Just to add VTC would be around ~80K cheaper after 4 years and that is including interest so the price difference is not as large as I initially thought.

Here is the TLDR;

Essentially, IU is more established and has access to all specialties with home programs, and is REALLY close to my support network (less than an hour drive). However, I am stuck at a branch campus which I feel could limit opportunities? Research would have to be more zoom-based and reach out to academic doctors at Indy conducting the majority of the research. However, I heard they are really receptive to students at the branch campus. For example, one student is doing research in Urology, and another doing summer research in plastics. Most rotations will be community-based except going to Indy for whatever specialty I might be interested in (e.g. ortho) to get the academic letters and make connections with the faculty. Will community rotations in Northwest Indiana hospitals limit the pathology I see and impact step 2 preparation? Also, as of now, IU does not have dedicated step 2 studying. IU is more expensive, probably ~80K more after 4 years.

VTC is less established, far from my support network (around an 11-hour drive), and cheaper by ~80K, but is missing many home programs (e.g ortho, optho, anesthesia, radiology, and more etc). However, there is a heavy research curriculum that will make research easier (clinical research can still be difficult) to come by and students seem to match well but obviously takes more work with away rotations etc. I do like the curriculum, one week of exams and then having a week off and only NBME for basic science. They also have step 2 dedicated time which will be important now. I like the curriculum better than IU as it is more systems-based and exam week every 8 weeks, with 1 week off after, compared to exams every 2 weeks at IU. However, there is a lot of PBL and mandatory class time basically 8-5 pm at least 3 days a week. Clearly, it is working since they have high average step 1 and 2 scores. The class is also on the older side, more non-traditional. For clinical rotations, there is an academic hospital associated, with the Carilion clinic, and I heard there is a lot of one on one time with attendings since there aren't too many residents, this would be similar to community hospital vibes at IU, but many home programs missing.

Both have small class sizes (i.e, less than 50 people) so that is not a factor.

@Goro do you have any thoughts?

 

[threepwood]

If students are matching in diverse specialties at VT, seems like VT has the better cost, curriculum, and city, and maybe you are worrying too much about residency placement. IU seems to have a lot more uncertainties attached to it. I assume you’re from the area and know what Gary is like so maybe it’s not a problem for you, but living in Gary for four years would be enough to deter me from IU in and of itself.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I still need some help making a decision. If anyone could provide some insight that would be great. I provided more content in some of the replies above.

Just to add VTC would be around ~80K cheaper after 4 years and that is including interest so the price difference is not as large as I initially thought.

Here is the TLDR;

Essentially, IU is more established and has access to all specialties with home programs, and is REALLY close to my support network (less than an hour drive). However, I am stuck at a branch campus which I feel could limit opportunities? Research would have to be more zoom-based and reach out to academic doctors at Indy conducting the majority of the research. However, I heard they are really receptive to students at the branch campus. For example, one student is doing research in Urology, and another doing summer research in plastics. Most rotations will be community-based except going to Indy for whatever specialty I might be interested in (e.g. ortho) to get the academic letters and make connections with the faculty. Will community rotations in Northwest Indiana hospitals limit the pathology I see and impact step 2 preparation? Also, as of now, IU does not have dedicated step 2 studying. IU is more expensive, probably ~80K more after 4 years.

VTC is less established, far from my support network (around an 11-hour drive), and cheaper by ~80K, but is missing many home programs (e.g ortho, optho, anesthesia, radiology, and more etc). However, there is a heavy research curriculum that will make research easier (clinical research can still be difficult) to come by and students seem to match well but obviously takes more work with away rotations etc. I do like the curriculum, one week of exams and then having a week off and only NBME for basic science. They also have step 2 dedicated time which will be important now. I like the curriculum better than IU as it is more systems-based and exam week every 8 weeks, with 1 week off after, compared to exams every 2 weeks at IU. However, there is a lot of PBL and mandatory class time basically 8-5 pm at least 3 days a week. Clearly, it is working since they have high average step 1 and 2 scores. The class is also on the older side, more non-traditional. For clinical rotations, there is an academic hospital associated, with the Carilion clinic, and I heard there is a lot of one on one time with attendings since there aren't too many residents, this would be similar to community hospital vibes at IU, but many home programs missing.

Both have small class sizes (i.e, less than 50 people) so that is not a factor.

@Goro do you have any thoughts?

PBL is not 8-5 three days a week at VTC. I think it's like 2-3 hours on Monday, maybe 3 on Wednesday, and another 3 on Friday. Friday time includes the meeting with the patient from the case that week.

 

[effectedtag]

Thank you all for your help! I got off the waitlist at my top choice so I will be attending neither of these schools.

 

[siloaddict]

Thank you all for your help! I got off the waitlist at my top choice so I will be attending neither of these schools.

Hi, can you message me please?