Visionworks Experiences and Working There

[Mixin Marc]

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06-18-2010 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9820011)
Visionworks
I don't see what the joke is. We are serious about protecting our docs, and our malpractice insurance definitely covers anything the docs miss. Many of the messages posted list how they feel customers need longer exams, but we honestly feel this would not be efficient or profitable enough. We're trying to maximize profit and we fit in the perfect niche here.

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VA Hopeful Dr
Its not about the malpractice, its about the patient safety. No one wants to be sued, but that's nothing compared to knowing you missed something in your 5 min. exam and cost someone their sight.

You're also opening yourselves up to a huge liability here, vision mistakes are pricey.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-18-2010 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9808045)
Visionworks
I manage and direct an entire territory, and so far the only docs who leave are the ones who demand too much. They expect that they can sit and do nothing all day, when I believe it's a fair trade for the docs to see 40 or so patients a day in return for their high salary. We try to always keep a full book, and if a store shows that there is a chance of a no show, then we ask staff to double book. I see no problem with that at all.

In general, our managers are very well trained, and follow what we tell them to do. I feel sometimes the docs and managers do not get along because the docs feel they are entitled to a lunch at a set time. This doesn't work, and we let the docs know this before they sign up. Patients come first, not a lunch period. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

We had one doc in Bolingbrook who just couldn't handle seeing her quota of patients, and ended up leaving. She was an example of someone who couldn't handle this field.

I still think in general, that we provide our docs ample money in return for their work, which is not that hard in my opinion.

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Meibomian SxN
Yes, there are some docs who quit because they honestly can not handle high volume. But during the initial interview do you really tell them it will be 30-50 exams etc?

Also, is the lunch break paid or unpaid? Because is it is a 1hr unpaid lunch then the doctors should have every right to complain.

Finally, whether the company or the doctor pays for malpractice is irrelevant. If the doctor gets sued then it goes on the doctor's record, and that is what matters.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9817120)
Visionworks
Our random survey showed that most customers only wanted 5 minute exams. Of course there were outliers in the study who wanted longer exam. Some wanted 1 hr exams and a more thorough test, but those were only outliers to the study.

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FutureCTDoc
5 minutes isn't even enough time to get an IOP, let alone do a dilated exam. On a "well patient" visit at a minimum a patient needs an IOP, slit lamp exam, indirect ophthalmoscopy and a history. I also would hope that you would be doing dilated exams to rule out retinal issues. Even with extensive tech help, the doctor needs to be in the room for more than 5 minutes and that's assuming that they do almost everything.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 01:57 AM
xmattODx
Not that I want to continue to feed the troll (and this is obviously a troll) but the optometrist I worked for at Visionworks (who oversaw 8 or 9 stores and probably 20 ODs - read this to say he was making good money) quit and went back to school. He graduated with his DO last month. Take that for what it is worth.

It is interesting to go to optometric conferences and look around. As a group we are a pack of losers. The bottom of this group, in my experience, makes a career of practicing at Visionworks. They tend to have no personality, or a poor personality and their skills leave much to be desired. I did my two and a bit years while in graduate school. Never again. And for the new grads and pre-opts my recommendation is stay far, far away. Take a job as a barrista before working at Visionworks. You'll get more respect and be able to postiviely impact people's lives in a much more enjoyable way.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9821827)
VA Hopeful Dr
Its not about the malpractice, its about the patient safety. No one wants to be sued, but that's nothing compared to knowing you missed something in your 5 min. exam and cost someone their sight.

You're also opening yourselves up to a huge liability here, vision mistakes are pricey.

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Visionworks
I have to respectfully disagree here. Looking back at the past 5 years, we haven't had many lawsuits at all. We cover our docs with malpractice insurance for more than 1 million dollars, and that more than covers up any mistakes you can make.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9821903)
Meibomian SxN
Yes, there are some docs who quit because they honestly can not handle high volume. But during the initial interview do you really tell them it will be 30-50 exams etc?

Also, is the lunch break paid or unpaid? Because is it is a 1hr unpaid lunch then the doctors should have every right to complain.

Finally, whether the company or the doctor pays for malpractice is irrelevant. If the doctor gets sued then it goes on the doctor's record, and that is what matters.
-----------------------------
Visionworks

During the initial interview, we tell all our docs that they will usually see a numerical range of patients. Some days it could be 5, while other days it could be higher. We don't go into the actual numbers most docs see, but we do let them know the patient number can be higher. I don't see a problem with this notion.

The lunch break is unpaid, however, since we pay our docs a salary we do not need to give them a fixed time slot for a lunch. Docs are entitled to a short break when working a full day, but we cannot allow them to be entitled to an hour long lunch at any set period. It's so important for us to resource schedule so that we can accommodate our customers and their schedule. After all, the customers are the ones who are paying our docs their high salary.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9823395)
FutureCTDoc
5 minutes isn't even enough time to get an IOP, let alone do a dilated exam. On a "well patient" visit at a minimum a patient needs an IOP, slit lamp exam, indirect ophthalmoscopy and a history. I also would hope that you would be doing dilated exams to rule out retinal issues. Even with extensive tech help, the doctor needs to be in the room for more than 5 minutes and that's assuming that they do almost everything.

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Visionworks
Remember that all patients are pre-tested, and so you do not really need more than a few minutes to sit with the doc. The doc should not need any more than 2 minutes to refract the patient from the autorefractor results, 2 minutes on their slit lamp, and then 1 minute to talk with them and put in their dilating drop. It's a very efficient set up.

quote

 

[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9823423)
xmattODx
Not that I want to continue to feed the troll (and this is obviously a troll) but the optometrist I worked for at Visionworks (who oversaw 8 or 9 stores and probably 20 ODs - read this to say he was making good money) quit and went back to school. He graduated with his DO last month. Take that for what it is worth.

It is interesting to go to optometric conferences and look around. As a group we are a pack of losers. The bottom of this group, in my experience, makes a career of practicing at Visionworks. They tend to have no personality, or a poor personality and their skills leave much to be desired. I did my two and a bit years while in graduate school. Never again. And for the new grads and pre-opts my recommendation is stay far, far away. Take a job as a barrista before working at Visionworks. You'll get more respect and be able to postiviely impact people's lives in a much more enjoyable way.

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Visionworks
I must say this doc probably did not realize the finer things in life. Money is, after all what we are after. Visionworks provides that, and it's a safe place to work. You do not need to worry about hiring a great staff, because they are already provided and work great with you. You do not need to worry about billing, because that will also be done for you as well. All you have to do as docs is provide eye exams. For a high salary, how hard is that?

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 07:46 AM
Visionworks
The lunch break is unpaid, however, since we pay our docs a salary we do not need to give them a fixed time slot for a lunch. Docs are entitled to a short break when working a full day, but we cannot allow them to be entitled to an hour long lunch at any set period...
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Meibomian SxN
Cannot allow them? This statement is why many docs leave. They are unpaid for 1 hour of the day, so technically they are working longer if they do not take their 1hr break, which if examing 30-50 Px's/day is well deserved.

Also isn't America's Best the #3 largest optical chain???

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9821649)
achirum
I think Visionworks makes some good points here. What is the best way to garner an opportunity for employment upon graduating?

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Meibomian SxN
Hook, line & sinker 😱

Quoting from "Lean on Me" when Morgan Freeman was talking to the student: "You'll be dead in a year son, you'll be dead in a year..."

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9823862)
Quote:
Meibomian SxN
Cannot allow them? This statement is why many docs leave. They are unpaid for 1 hour of the day, so technically they are working longer if they do not take their 1hr break, which if examing 30-50 Px's/day is well deserved.

Also isn't America's Best the #3 largest optical chain???

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Visionworks

That's all part of being a team player. We cannot have the docs just leave during any set lunch hour because they feel like it. We need to take care of the customers first. I'm sure we can all handle holding off on a quick bite for an hour or two in order to keep the customer happy. I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9823875)
Meibomian SxN
Hook, line & sinker 😱

Quoting from "Lean on Me" when Morgan Freeman was talking to the student: "You'll be dead in a year son, you'll be dead in a year..."

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Visionworks
I respectfully disagree. More than likely, the doc will be rolling in cash and enjoying life.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9823602)
Visionworks
Remember that all patients are pre-tested, and so you do not really need more than a few minutes to sit with the doc. The doc should not need any more than 2 minutes to refract the patient from the autorefractor results, 2 minutes on their slit lamp, and then 1 minute to talk with them and put in their dilating drop. It's a very efficient set up.

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FutureCTDoc
Ok so where is the time for taking a history/updating it. It may take 30 minutes for a patient with a complex history. Also wham, bam, thank you ma'am doesn't work well for anyone who might have anything other than perfect ocular health. What about DM, you need time to counsel them. Time to do retinoscopy, you need to check for macular degeneration. It appears that your corporation may be putting the bottom line over patient's health and well being.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9824096)
Visionworks
I respectfully disagree. More than likely, the doc will be rolling in cash and enjoying life.

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IndianaOD
Please. Places like crapworks and america's worst have incredibly high OD turnover.

If there are any students actually reading this crap don't take a dump on your profession by giving these cheap greedy corporations the keys to your DOCTORATE.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9819954)
Visionworks
You must remember that Visionworks provides all docs with malpractice insurance, so no doc needs to worry about missing pathology. With Visionworks you're pretty secure.

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FutureCTDoc
Yea it's cool, patient goes blind, no worries bro. I mean you've got two eyes for a reason, am I right?
This kind of an attitude is both disgusting and disturbing, it is unacceptable to be so blase about this.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9824222)
FutureCTDoc
Ok so where is the time for taking a history/updating it. It may take 30 minutes for a patient with a complex history. Also wham, bam, thank you ma'am doesn't work well for anyone who might have anything other than perfect ocular health. What about DM, you need time to counsel them. Time to do retinoscopy, you need to check for macular degeneration. It appears that your corporation may be putting the bottom line over patient's health and well being.

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Visionworks
I think you may be exaggerating when you say 30 minutes for a history. That seems a little far fetched. I asked one of our new docs who just graduated, and he said a history usually only take 1 minute. The doc also said he never does retinoscopy because we have an autorefractor. Since he's the doc, I trust him. I don't feel we put our bottom line over any of our customers. Our bottom line is indeed important because it supplies our docs with their high salaries, but we also care very much about our customers. We believe in great customer service as well.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9824294)
Visionworks
I think you may be exaggerating when you say 30 minutes for a history. That seems a little far fetched. I asked one of our new docs who just graduated, and he said a history usually only take 1 minute. The doc also said he never does retinoscopy because we have an autorefractor. Since he's the doc, I trust him. I don't feel we put our bottom line over any of our customers. Our bottom line is indeed important because it supplies our docs with their high salaries, but we also care very much about our customers. We believe in great customer service as well.

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JMU07
Yeah, because the autorefractor is just so accurate you never need to do ret. What about kids who won't sit still in the autorefractor, or people who are handicapped and won't sit for it? Still no ret? How about non-responsive patients?

Clearly Visionworks is much more concerned about money than the well-being of their patients. I don't give a crap how much money I make, as long as I know I'm taking care of people who are spending their time and money to come see someone who will make sure they're doing okay.

Also, you keep referring to your patients as "customers". Is anyone else disturbed by this?

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9824294)
Visionworks
I think you may be exaggerating when you say 30 minutes for a history. That seems a little far fetched. I asked one of our new docs who just graduated, and he said a history usually only take 1 minute. The doc also said he never does retinoscopy because we have an autorefractor. Since he's the doc, I trust him. I don't feel we put our bottom line over any of our customers. Our bottom line is indeed important because it supplies our docs with their high salaries, but we also care very much about our customers. We believe in great customer service as well.


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FutureCTDoc
So why does an autorefraction rule out looking at the retina? Even a followup visit has a history that takes longer than a minute to take. An initial visit should at the minimum include:
Family History of DM, MI/cardiovascular, Glaucoma, stroke, cancer, psychiatric issues, Alzheimer's
Personal History of DM, MI, BP, Strokes, cancer, surgery, psychiatric illness, neurological illness, glaucoma, vision changes, surgeries, medications, social history, smoking, any travel outside of the US, HIV, Herpes
Age
Profession
Risk factors

This is at a bare minimum, factors such as risks for glaucoma may be more important with a high IOP. In follow ups:
Medication Changes
Blurry vision
Night vision changes
Halos
Pain
Any other vision changes
How the patient has been feeling (Mental health)
Any surgeries
New conditions

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9823588)
Visionworks
I have to respectfully disagree here. Looking back at the past 5 years, we haven't had many lawsuits at all. We cover our docs with malpractice insurance for more than 1 million dollars, and that more than covers up any mistakes you can make.

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VA Hopeful Dr
You're missing my point. It isn't about the malpractice insurance. If a doc is sued, it goes onto a national database of providers. Second, you've likely got an injured (in the case with eyes, potentially blinded). Your conscience should kick in right about here. Third, 1 million doesn't cover plenty of things I've seen before. We all read in the news about multimillion dollar verdicts, and that's just for a messed up labia - imagine if you blinded someone.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visionworks: anything longer than 5 minutes is usually too long


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20DOC20
I work at a Vista Optical (National Vision) and I schedule patients an hour apart. The patients get ANGRY when they're rushed. A five minute exam is ridiculous. The refraction alone takes that much time and an eye exam entails far more than that.

Our patients would revolt if I scheduled exams five minutes apart. Plus, I couldn't do it. I have no employees and do everything myself, except insurance billing. NVI does that.

I also wonder how many techs you supply your OD with? I worked with an MD who saw up to 50 patients per day, but he had 4 Certified Ophthalmic Techs helping him, doing almost everything including the refractions. I just don't think it's possible to see that many patients without an army to back you up. Do you provide this for your ODs?

Just wondering.

Oh, and I got the pleasure of seeing this MD's "glasses checks" and the patients were ANGRY about their five minutes with the MD Doc.

Your comments seem somewhat unrealistic from my 14-year OD experience.

I used to work as an associate at a Binyon's (not sure if this is Visionworks. Thought it was ECCA) and I was MISERABLE seeing 3 exams and 1 check per hour. I just couldn't do it physically for very long. I would go home exhausted. I mean, EXHAUSTED. I hated working there. Fortunately I worked only a Saturday and a Sunday (a half day) and at other, less insane places on the other days.

National Vision has been good to me in allowing me the freedom to set my own schedule and pacing my exams. They're not a perfect company though and have their problem areas which I'll not get into. But at least their problems don't involve the quality of patient care. I'll at least give them that.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by
FutureCTDdoc: 5 minutes isn't even enough time to get an IOP, let alone do a dilated exam. On a "well patient" visit at a minimum a patient needs an IOP, slit lamp exam, indirect ophthalmoscopy and a history. I also would hope that you would be doing dilated exams to rule out retinal issues. Even with extensive tech help, the doctor needs to be in the room for more than 5 minutes and that's assuming that they do almost everything.



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20DOC20
I hear you. So true! I mean, there are some patients who take TEN MINUTES per eye during the refraction! This doesn't happen often, but in a set-up where you're expected to see one every five minutes, just one difficult refraction can set you behind by four patients. And in a day of 40 to 50 exams, you can easily have 5 such patients. That means no lunch if you work for Visionworks ... which I think is a breach of labor laws and is a situation which places the public in harm. I don't even think Hospitals work people that hard anymore ... the reason being that medical errors occur when people are tired!

That's why I got out of the rat race. I don't make much money seeing people an hour apart ... but at least I no longer come home on the verge of a nervous breakdown anymore. My mental health is much better sans Binyons and the like.

quote

 

[Mixin Marc]

06-19-2010 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9825936)
20DOC20
I hear you. So true! I mean, there are some patients who take TEN MINUTES per eye during the refraction! This doesn't happen often, but in a set-up where you're expected to see one every five minutes, just one difficult refraction can set you behind by four patients. And in a day of 40 to 50 exams, you can easily have 5 such patients. That means no lunch if you work for Visionworks ... which I think is a breach of labor laws and is a situation which places the public in harm. I don't even think Hospitals work people that hard anymore ... the reason being that medical errors occur when people are tired!

That's why I got out of the rat race. I don't make much money seeing people an hour apart ... but at least I no longer come home on the verge of a nervous breakdown anymore. My mental health is much better sans Binyons and the like.

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FutureCTDoc
Based off of what the rep for their company is saying, they care more about the refractions than about ocular health. The only time a patient might take only 5 minute is with excellent techs and a single simple emergent issue i.e. a irritating eyelash. 15-20 minutes is much more realistic. That means you can see 32 patients a day, one can do a few more maybe 40 before it really decreases the quality of care and that truly is what is most important.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-20-2010 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9825987)
FutureCTDoc
Based off of what the rep for their company is saying, they care more about the refractions than about ocular health. The only time a patient might take only 5 minute is with excellent techs and a single simple emergent issue i.e. a irritating eyelash. 15-20 minutes is much more realistic. That means you can see 32 patients a day, one can do a few more maybe 40 before it really decreases the quality of care and that truly is what is most important.

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Meibomian SxN
What does the rep care! As soon as the OD gets in trouble etc, the rep still has their job! And they'll find another OD to spin & grin until they are burnt out also. And so the corporate cycle continues to turn...😡

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[Mixin Marc]

06-20-2010 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9817120)
Visionworks
Our random survey showed that most customers only wanted 5 minute exams. Of course there were outliers in the study who wanted longer exam. Some wanted 1 hr exams and a more thorough test, but those were only outliers to the study.

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pinipig523
I'm not an optometrist, but I find it funny that you're willing to base your "standard of care" on what a patient wants.

I forget again, what's the typical education level of a US citizen? If I were to base Emergency Medicine care on what a patient wants, it would consist:

1. No IV heplock, no blood draws.
2. Vicodin 100 tabs per visit.
3. Instant care without pay.

I'm appalled by your justification for shorter exam times by basing it on customer preference.

quote

 

[Mixin Marc]

06-20-2010 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9824294)
Visionworks
I think you may be exaggerating when you say 30 minutes for a history. That seems a little far fetched. I asked one of our new docs who just graduated, and he said a history usually only take 1 minute. The doc also said he never does retinoscopy because we have an autorefractor. Since he's the doc, I trust him. I don't feel we put our bottom line over any of our customers. Our bottom line is indeed important because it supplies our docs with their high salaries, but we also care very much about our customers. We believe in great customer service as well.

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pinipig523
A 1 minute history?

What can you ask the patient in 1 minute? All I can see you asking is past medical history, past surgical history, meds that they're on, any allergies.

Anytime you move away from yes/no banter and you ask how the patient is doing or what brings them in... you are waaaay over the 1 minute mark. A fair assessment would be 3-5min for a decent history.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-21-2010 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9829168)
pinipig523
I'm not an optometrist, but I find it funny that you're willing to base your "standard of care" on what a patient wants.

I forget again, what's the typical education level of a US citizen? If I were to base Emergency Medicine care on what a patient wants, it would consist:

1. No IV heplock, no blood draws.
2. Vicodin 100 tabs per visit.
3. Instant care without pay.

I'm appalled by your justification for shorter exam times by basing it on customer preference.

----------------------
PBEA
exactly, this is the typical mall paradigm. To the corporate optical, people are customers not patients. Its an all you can eat buffet, and refraction is the name of the game. They don't want to deal with protracted explanation/examination for legitimate compliants, they want to sell eyeglasses and contact lenses. PERIOD. They will reduce nearly every visit to a refractive visit and call it a day. Keep in mind that this visionworks guy is the typical layperson with something like a GED for "credentials", and is not an optometrist. He is merely conveying what the public perceives as "eyecare", and is catering to the lowest common denominator, without any concern for healthcare. For those of you that frequent the mall/big box crapticals, it is indeed buyer beware. And for those of you optometrists (and yikes even some ophthalmologists 😱) seeking job opportunity, steer clear lest you get stuck providing "vision tests", compromising pt care, your license, and your soul.

quote

 

[Mixin Marc]

06-21-2010 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Post 9821824)
VA Hopeful Dr
You know, I was trying to somehow compare this with anything us MDs do. I was having difficultly as we don't usually do any materials. Then I realized, getting an exam before a new glasses Rx is no different than my patients having to come in every 4-6 months for more BP meds and them putting up with the exam I'm requiring before I'll give them anything even though the NNT is pretty darn high with most of what we do. I don't know of many MDs that will hand out much of anything based on just vital signs.


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PBEA
B-I-N-G-O

now all we have to do is educate the mall/optician/corporate community of that fact 🙄

fat chance, too easy to sell some specs and keep your fingers crossed.

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[Mixin Marc]

06-21-2010 11:06 AM
Quote:
Meibomian SxN
Sadly enough I believe the person was a real manager from this chain, the noneducated answers verified for me.

I'm glad they posted though, so the future OD grads can see how much these chains truly care about them.

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[Mixin Marc]

Hey, I know what this thread needs! Some quotes !

hey, I just wanted the new grads to at least get a chance to read the thread, since someone deleted the original one