Volunteer firefighting- what's your opinion?

[Conflagration]

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Hello, SDN! I'm asking the above because of an opportunity I might have.

There's a station seven miles from my house that takes volunteers. They train their people as EMT's and they also fight fires too.

Would it be considered clinical or non-clinical volunteering, if I'd be simultaneously an EMT and a firefighter?

How do you feel like this would be perceived? Is it a unique enough EC to "stand out"? (Note- this answer won't change whether I do this or not, I just want constructive input so I know what I'll be applying with come June.)

(And, yes, I'm aware that I'll be spending a lot of time at the bottom of the totem pole. Surprisingly, I've been exposed to a few emergency situations and I went into a triage-mode for all of them, which I hear is pretty ideal for that kind of work. I'm excited about being able to do something for my community and be able to learn about both emergency response and firefighting.)

If you all don't feel like posting, there's a poll that you can answer too. I'd love your input!

Thanks for reading!

 

[gettheleadout]

Even if you're trained as an EMT as well, if you're only doing firefighting it certainly isn't clinical. On the other hand, if you're sitting at the ambulance with people extracted from the building and working up smoke inhalation and burns then it's totally clinical, so I think it will depend on what you end up doing. Either way, I think it sounds like a cool experience. No idea how common it is, though I might speculate volunteer EMT experience is more commonplace among premeds than firefighting.

Also, does volunteer firefighting go something like this?

 

[Fedekz]

Being an EMT-B is a dime a dozen, the value of it is really eroded with every pre-med getting certified and volunteering. I'm not so sure about the firefighter though. Do you get certified as a FF1 or FF2? Is the entire area purely serviced by volunteers or is there career paid staff? I imagine anywhere that has a college will have career paid staff stations.

I haven't seen anyone ask about the value of being a volunteer firefighter to be honest. I was a Paramedic for a fire department earlier in my career, but never had any interest in getting my FF1 or 2.

 

[Catalystik]

There's a station seven miles from my house that takes volunteers. They train their people as EMT's and they also fight fires too.

Would it be considered clinical or non-clinical volunteering, if I'd be simultaneously an EMT and a firefighter?

How do you feel like this would be perceived? Is it a unique enough EC to "stand out"? (Note- this answer won't change whether I do this or not, I just want constructive input so I know what I'll be applying with come June.)

I agree with GTLO that this experience could encompass two important categories on the med school application. Listing them separately is the best idea unless one of the components ends up being minimal, hours-wise, in which case you can lump it in with the other category.

Why not keep your own log of your involvement and the hours in each category to make it easier to decide down the road what categories to use?

 

[The Buff OP]

Hello, SDN! I'm asking the above because of an opportunity I might have.

There's a station seven miles from my house that takes volunteers. They train their people as EMT's and they also fight fires too.

Would it be considered clinical or non-clinical volunteering, if I'd be simultaneously an EMT and a firefighter?

How do you feel like this would be perceived? Is it a unique enough EC to "stand out"? (Note- this answer won't change whether I do this or not, I just want constructive input so I know what I'll be applying with come June.)

(And, yes, I'm aware that I'll be spending a lot of time at the bottom of the totem pole. Surprisingly, I've been exposed to a few emergency situations and I went into a triage-mode for all of them, which I hear is pretty ideal for that kind of work. I'm excited about being able to do something for my community and be able to learn about both emergency response and firefighting.)

If you all don't feel like posting, there's a poll that you can answer too. I'd love your input!

Thanks for reading!

It's not clinical, but I think it is an awesome EC to have. I have a whole bunch of hours under my belt for EMT volly. I think it's unique, most EC's are expensive mission trips, soup kitchen (which is nice of them), or events. Saving people from fires or in medical calls is cool my book.

 

[Mad Jack]

Going to +1 the comments above.

Firefighting is an excellent EC, but not clinical. Volunteer EMT work would qualify as clinical, however.

 

[Psai]

Firefighting is a cool thing to do and cool thing to talk about

 

[Conflagration]

Being an EMT-B is a dime a dozen, the value of it is really eroded with every pre-med getting certified and volunteering. I'm not so sure about the firefighter though. Do you get certified as a FF1 or FF2? Is the entire area purely serviced by volunteers or is there career paid staff? I imagine anywhere that has a college will have career paid staff stations.

I haven't seen anyone ask about the value of being a volunteer firefighter to be honest. I was a Paramedic for a fire department earlier in my career, but never had any interest in getting my FF1 or 2.

It depends on their needs, really. I could get the FF2 after I was there long enough. And it seems like I'd be able to stick with them for at least two years, so I should have the FF2. (Or at least an FF1 by the time I applied.)

I asked my local fire department, and they said that this county department handles both first response and medical calls. It seems like they require you to start as a volunteer for a few months, and depending on how well you do, you may end up with a paid position.

I think I'll try to separate them, as per @Catalystik's recommendation. If there's not a substantial amount of hours for EMT work or for FF work, I'll lump them together.

 

[The Buff OP]

It depends on their needs, really. I could get the FF2 after I was there long enough. And it seems like I'd be able to stick with them for at least two years, so I should have the FF2. (Or at least an FF1 by the time I applied.)

I asked my local fire department, and they said that this county department handles both first response and medical calls. It seems like they require you to start as a volunteer for a few months, and depending on how well you do, you may end up with a paid position.

I think I'll try to separate them, as per @Catalystik's recommendation. If there's not a substantial amount of hours for EMT work or for FF work, I'll lump them together.

For firefighters this is them most of the time on medical calls once EMS arrives. But they love to stick around trauma calls.

 

[Conflagration]

For firefighters this is them most of the time on medical calls once EMS arrives. But they love to stick around trauma calls.

It seems like everyone in this department have at least their EMT-B. There's a few with EMT-Is and the lieutenants and higher all have EMT-Ps. So I'm not sure what they're like. I would definitely go for an EMT-I or even -P if it was available to me. Knowledge never hurt anyone.

 

[alpinism]

Even if you're trained as an EMT as well, if you're only doing firefighting it certainly isn't clinical. On the other hand, if you're sitting at the ambulance with people extracted from the building and working up smoke inhalation and burns then it's totally clinical, so I think it will depend on what you end up doing. Either way, I think it sounds like a cool experience. No idea how common it is, though I might speculate volunteer EMT experience is more commonplace among premeds than firefighting.

Also, does volunteer firefighting go something like this?

I agree with GTLO that this experience could encompass two important categories on the med school application. Listing them separately is the best idea unless one of the components ends up being minimal, hours-wise, in which case you can lump it in with the other category.

Why not keep your own log of your involvement and the hours in each category to make it easier to decide down the road what categories to use?

It's not clinical, but I think it is an awesome EC to have. I have a whole bunch of hours under my belt for EMT volly. I think it's unique, most EC's are expensive mission trips, soup kitchen (which is nice of them), or events. Saving people from fires or in medical calls is cool my book.

Going to +1 the comments above.

Firefighting is an excellent EC, but not clinical. Volunteer EMT work would qualify as clinical, however.

The vast majority of calls a volunteer firefighter responds to are for medical emergencies.

On average, only 5-10% of 911 calls are for actual fires, the other 90-95% are for medical emergencies.

Most if not all volunteer FDs in the US today require some sort of emergency medical training ranging from first responder to EMT basic.

Being a volunteer firefighter absolutely qualifies as clinical experience.

At the same time, the traditional job of a firefighter (actually fighting fires) is becoming increasingly rare. Its not uncommon for some stations (especially those in suburbia/high income areas) to go weeks if not months without a single house fire. A typical day involves responding to medical calls, MVAs, and false alarms.


Some light reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/sunday-review/the-disappearing-volunteer-firefighter.html?_r=1

 

[Mad Jack]

The vast majority of calls a volunteer firefighter responds to are for medical emergencies.

On average, only 5-10% of 911 calls are for actual fires, the other 90-95% are for medical emergencies.

Most if not all volunteer FDs in the US today require some sort of emergency medical training ranging from first responder to EMT basic.

Being a volunteer firefighter absolutely qualifies as clinical experience.

At the same time, the traditional job of a firefighter (actually fighting fires) is becoming increasingly rare. Its not uncommon for some stations (especially those in suburbia/high income areas) to go weeks if not months without a single house fire. A typical day involves responding to medical calls, MVAs, and false alarms.


Some light reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/sunday-review/the-disappearing-volunteer-firefighter.html?_r=1

Totally depends on the department though. While MVAs may be medical emergencies, around here, firefighters usually handle the technical aspects of the scene, while paramedics provide the actual patient care and transport.

 

[alpinism]

Hello, SDN! I'm asking the above because of an opportunity I might have.

There's a station seven miles from my house that takes volunteers. They train their people as EMT's and they also fight fires too.

Would it be considered clinical or non-clinical volunteering, if I'd be simultaneously an EMT and a firefighter?

How do you feel like this would be perceived? Is it a unique enough EC to "stand out"? (Note- this answer won't change whether I do this or not, I just want constructive input so I know what I'll be applying with come June.)

(And, yes, I'm aware that I'll be spending a lot of time at the bottom of the totem pole. Surprisingly, I've been exposed to a few emergency situations and I went into a triage-mode for all of them, which I hear is pretty ideal for that kind of work. I'm excited about being able to do something for my community and be able to learn about both emergency response and firefighting.)

If you all don't feel like posting, there's a poll that you can answer too. I'd love your input!

Thanks for reading!

Yes, its clinical. Just list it as being a firefighter/EMT.

It is unique enough to stand out and give you a small boost, just remember it won't make up for low stats.

At the same time it makes for a great conversation topic at interviews.

 

[Conflagration]

Yes, its clinical. Just list it as being a firefighter/EMT.

It is unique enough to stand out and give you a small boost, just remember it won't make up for low stats.

At the same time it makes for a great conversation topic at interviews.

My stats are on the low side, which I'm aware of and I plan to apply accordingly. Thanks!

 

[alpinism]

Totally depends on the department though. While MVAs may be medical emergencies, around here, firefighters usually handle the technical aspects of the scene, while paramedics provide the actual patient care and transport.

While they may not be transporting the patient or providing care in the ambulance, both firefighters and medics generally work together as a team to stabilize and care for the patient on scene. Not to mention its very common for vol. firefighters to get there 5-10min before the ambulance in separate systems so that they provide care until the medics arrive.

 

[Mad Jack]

While they may not be transporting the patient or providing care in the ambulance, both firefighters and medics generally work together as a team to stabilize and care for the patient on scene. Not to mention its very common for vol. firefighters to get there 5-10min before the ambulance in separate systems so that they provide care until the medics arrive.

Police also frequently provide first responder services, but it's still not considered a clinical experience sort of job, fairly or not, because the vast majority of the time, you are not providing patient care. Our volunteer services around here are 50% waiting around, 30% going to or from a scene, and 20% actually doing something, which makes it a different sort of job than, say, a paid paramedic, who spends 12 hours of his shift going from one call to the next with minimal downtime. Do you provide some level of patient care? Certainly. Is that care extremely important? Yes. But is this a job that one would consider a medical provider, and one in which the majority of the time spent on the job is interacting with patients? I'd say no.

Firefighters get mad points for the position, but, because it's so hard to tease out how many of your hours are patient care hours versus everything else the job entails, it's just too difficult to call it a patient care position unless it's a station that also has an ambulance service.

 

[alpinism]

Police also frequently provide first responder services, but it's still not considered a clinical experience sort of job, fairly or not, because the vast majority of the time, you are not providing patient care. Our volunteer services around here are 50% waiting around, 30% going to or from a scene, and 20% actually doing something, which makes it a different sort of job than, say, a paid paramedic, who spends 12 hours of his shift going from one call to the next with minimal downtime. Do you provide some level of patient care? Certainly. Is that care extremely important? Yes. But is this a job that one would consider a medical provider, and one in which the majority of the time spent on the job is interacting with patients? I'd say no.

Firefighters get mad points for the position, but, because it's so hard to tease out how many of your hours are patient care hours versus everything else the job entails, it's just too difficult to call it a patient care position unless it's a station that also has an ambulance service.

The difference is that the vast majority of police officers don't have any medical training beyond CPR and certainly don't spend their day responding to 95% medical calls. Most squad cars also don't have any medical equipment while most fire engines have a BLS medical bag including an AED/defibrillator. Your personal anecdotes aside, at most medical calls where the patient is actually critically sick or injured (including everything from cardiac arrests to MVAs) you'll be doing a lot more than just standing there "waiting around." And of course you're not responding to calls day all since since these are volunteers we're talking about not full time firefighters. Its the same for volunteer EMTs.

In any event, this is all assuming a separate FD and EMS system when in reality most FDs (volunteer and paid) provide both services.

 

[The Buff OP]

The vast majority of calls a volunteer firefighter responds to are for medical emergencies.

On average, only 5-10% of 911 calls are for actual fires, the other 90-95% are for medical emergencies.

Most if not all volunteer FDs in the US today require some sort of emergency medical training ranging from first responder to EMT basic.

Being a volunteer firefighter absolutely qualifies as clinical experience.

At the same time, the traditional job of a firefighter (actually fighting fires) is becoming increasingly rare. Its not uncommon for some stations (especially those in suburbia/high income areas) to go weeks if not months without a single house fire. A typical day involves responding to medical calls, MVAs, and false alarms.


Some light reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/sunday-review/the-disappearing-volunteer-firefighter.html?_r=1

It depends on your area, bro. Where I use to volunteer at it was a busy area. Lots of car wrecks, medial calls, and fires. The fires weren't a lot, but in two weeks you wold see more than other people will see in months. I did volunteer at this one area up north of Houston and those guys up there are bored to death, there is never any fires and most of the time they get 1-2 calls per shift (24 hours) for something minor. As far as what I saw with the ff's on medical calls they would just check vitals and a little primary, but then the care was transfer to us. On full arrest calls they stay with us to help out.

 

[The Buff OP]

Before this thread becomes a discussion of what is what...OP just put FF/EMT. lol

 

[Mad Jack]

The difference is that the vast majority of police officers don't have any medical training beyond CPR and certainly don't spend their day responding to 95% medical calls. Most squad cars also don't have any medical equipment while most fire engines have a BLS medical bag including an AED/defibrillator. Your personal anecdotes aside, at most medical calls where the patient is actually critically sick or injured (including everything from cardiac arrests to MVAs) you'll be doing a lot more than just standing there "waiting around." And of course you're not responding to calls day all since since these are volunteers we're talking about not full time firefighters. Its the same for volunteer EMTs.

In any event, this is all assuming a separate FD and EMS system when in reality most FDs (volunteer and paid) provide both services.

EMS is vastly different depending on what state you live in. There's virtually zero fire department ambulance services left in CT- Aetna, ASM, AMR, and Hunter's own pretty much everything so far as ambulances go. I feel like this is a good one to put to adcoms, and see how they feel about it, because ultimately their decision is what matters. I could see it going either way.

 

[123456123456]

I worked as a volunteer at a fire station, I was not certified to fight structure fires but I was certified to fight brush fires. I was a first responder also and went on medical calls and car accidents which were a lot more frequent than the brush fire calls so I listed it as clinical volunteering and none of the schools I applied to complained about it. Then just describe that you did firefighting and EMT work in the description.