VSEPR and orgo

[coolcucumber91]

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I heard that visual learners do the best in organic chemistry and that blindly memorizing will just take up too much time. So is there any way you can tell that you will do well in orgo? For example, in gen chem, we learned the vsepr theory. I thought it was super easy bc I was able to visualize the different shapes and the variations (lone pairs instead of a bond)...of course, orgo will be much harder, but I'm just curious 😀

 

[jvesco22]

lmao. Why would you have to "visualize" VSEPR theory when there is only a handful of shapes/geometry.

Hopefully you don't go in there with a defeatist attitude. You'll get the feel of it once you start the class. Some people do well and some don't.

 

[coolcucumber91]

lmao. Why would you have to "visualize" VSEPR theory when there is only a handful of shapes/geometry.

Hopefully you don't go in there with a defeatist attitude. You'll get the feel of it once you start the class. Some people do well and some don't.

Well yeah, I know orgo is in a league of its own. And I'm definitely not gonna underestimate orgo. However, by visualizing the vsepr stuff rather than memorizing, I still remember it/ understand, you know? It's just a minor example

 

[jvesco22]

Yeah, I understand what you're sayin man. But hey, as long as you keep up with the studying (don't try to cram a day or 2 before) and do a lot of practice problem from the book, you'll do ok. Unlike gen chem, ochem builds upon concepts. So don't get behind or it will be hard to catch up. Also look into getting Organic Chemistry I as a Second Language. It can help clear some things up for you.

 

[Glucagon]

It's not like you can't "visualise" the reactions in your head in orgo.

Actually, I think it's quite possible to visualize certain reactions. What worked for me (and I'm not saying it works for everyone) was determining generic electron densities of different groups and how the orbitals probably look like in 3D. For example, in a complex molecule with a ketone group, we know (from calculations) that the carbonyl carbon is quite electron deficient and can serve as a decent electrophile.

In the upper level organic chemistry class I took, the professor would tell us a reaction would follow a specific elementary step. Knowing the orbital interactions between those steps helped me determine the products with correct stereochem.

 

[orthomyxo]

So is there any way you can tell that you will do well in orgo?

Yea. Sell your soul to your textbook.

 

[Mithril]

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[Frazier]

I liked both gen chem and orgo content -- I didn't mind sitting down and reading/doing problems for great lengths of time.

However, due to each of the professors' set up of the respective courses (i.e. exam style, scaling, etc) I didn't really enjoy either class experience.

 

[Mithril]

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[premed414]

One textbook I know of places a huge emphasis on MO theory, and to be honest it is in fact quite helpful. Maitland Jones' textbook uses MOs for almost everything and presents arguments in a way that if you understood what he was talking about earlier in the book, you really don't have to memorize much at all.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/03..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0P8Q37R6FSMJCQ2357YV

 

[jdtx]

Honestly from my experience I can say a few things:
1) people either love orgo or genchem ( I did better in orgo than genchem )
2) your attitude towards orgo counts a lot, sounds cliche but if ur scared and aren't optimistic about it you wont do well

Just my 2cents

Gluck!

 

[Glucagon]

That's what I said? 😕

Haha that's what I get for reading too quickly...my bad 😀

 

[Quaero]

Well since all reactions are essentially exchange of electron or changing in electron coordinate somehow, understanding MO theory would certainly be useful. However, you have to find the time to know each of the reactants' and catalyst's LUMO and HOMO and that is quite a challenge. My text book didn't explain such thing. All I did was memorize the reactions 🙁

If you can, take inorganic before organic. It changes everything.

 

[plzNOCarribbean]

Ive tutored orgo for a year and although I agree that it is somewhat "visual", there are a a lot of aspects that aren't. In orgo, the best way to ensure a good grade is to do every single problem in the back of the book.

organic is not hard. It just takes a lot of time and effort to learn which is why it stumps alot of people

 

[bucks2010]

In orgo, the best way to ensure a good grade is to do every single problem in the back of the book.

organic is not hard. It just takes a lot of time and effort to learn which is why it stumps alot of people

+1, time and effort are the 2 biggest indicators of success in organic chemistry.

 

[rwalker89]

Ive tutored orgo for a year and although I agree that it is somewhat "visual", there are a a lot of aspects that aren't. In orgo, the best way to ensure a good grade is to do every single problem in the back of the book.

organic is not hard. It just takes a lot of time and effort to learn which is why it stumps alot of people

+2, Organic isn't all that hard. You'll get out of it what you put into it. If you go to a large University, chances are your teacher won't be great and thats okay. Just read the text book and do the suggested problems.

 

[PreMedder]

visualizing will definitely help you without a doubt. mainly helps though in terms of being able to quickly determine stereochem. throughout reactions which isn't that big of a deal, but definitely helpful. i'm good @ visualizing as well and imo it's helped a lot. being able to do synthesis/other types of problems in my head without having to write it down on paper definitely saves time/effort.

so it'll definitely be an advantage, but theres no way around the # of hrs you'll need to be cuddling with your textbook.

 

[Beaker 11]

I've tutored a lot of friends in organic over the last year and a half and the biggest problem I noticed with each of them was that they were simply freaking themselves out. They come across a "big" scary looking structure or crazy name and automatically think they don't know how to do the synthesis problem or know the reaction before thinking about what was actually going on. Once you get the hang of it, organic is really fun!! Also pay attention to what your professor is teaching you. Makes sense I know but some students get so worked up in studying the hardest way their professor can possibly ask a question they miss the "easy" stuff and are wasting their study time. Most likely your professor will not test you on anything they didn't teach you how to do. Practice makes perfect but if your memorizing instead of learning, you aren't going to do well.

I think organic requires an artistic mindset in comparison to the other prereqs. If you like pictures, are very detailed orientated, like drawing and hardly any math then you might find organic isn't has hard as its made out to be.

 

[transfec]

lmao. Why would you have to "visualize" VSEPR theory when there is only a handful of shapes/geometry.

Hopefully you don't go in there with a defeatist attitude. You'll get the feel of it once you start the class. Some people do well and some don't.

This.

Don't fall behind, do your practice problems, meet with the professor.... etc. Do whatever it takes for you to be able to say at the end of the quarter that you did your best.

 

[Wakesc]

Yup I blundered through ochem 1/2 and that got me an A in both.. takes a lot of time, don't underestimate the material and allow enough time to prepare. Best of Luck