W or C

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LLB03

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Hello, I am a first semester senior with no previous withdrawals and around a 3.7 gpa. I have overloaded my schedule pretty bad this semester and struggling in a very high level biology course and its associated lab. I don’t know whether I should continue with the class and lab to try to get a B with a high likelyhood of a C or if I should just withdraw from the class. For the lab I am basically at the point that a B is impossible and I have a good fighting chance in the class. I am scared that a med school won’t think I will be able to handle their curriculum if I withdraw from the classes, but a C would tank my gpa to almost a point of no return. Please let me know what you think the best course of action is. Thank you
 
Take the W if you don't need the credits to graduate. You are not protecting a 4.0 and acting on perfectionist tendencies given your GPA and you really can't afford to tank your sGPA with a C if you are going to be (re)applying after this semester. If anyone sees how many credits you were registered for, they will not fault you for dropping something to lighten the load to something more reasonable.
 
Ok thank you. That’s what I was thinking too. Do you think two W in one semester would be alarming?
 
Goro said:
No. What's alarming is a multitude of W's scattered all over a transcript that is filled with good grades. That telegraphs someone is trying to protect their GPA
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True. But it could also mean the person might have a chronic illness or a bad home environment that is interfering with their classes. The situation has to be looked at in the context of the individual. Also, you can't just assume people are trying to protect their GPA's by taking W's because W's are expensive too.
 
AJ25 said:
True. But it could also mean the person might have a chronic illness or a bad home environment that is interfering with their classes. The situation has to be looked at in the context of the individual. Also, you can't just assume people are trying to protect their GPA's by taking W's because W's are expensive too.
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Someone with a chronic illness or a difficult home life is unlikely to have multiple Ws and a 4.0. @Goro and I have been at this for a few decades and we've seen it all.
 
LizzyM said:
Someone with a chronic illness or a difficult home life is unlikely to have multiple Ws and a 4.0. @Goro and I have been at this for a few decades and we've seen it all.
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I thought we were working with a 3.7 for this discussion?

Also, 4.0's are also rare, and I'm sure you know that from your decades of work.
 
AJ25 said:
I thought we were working with a 3.7 for this discussion?

Also, 4.0's are also rare, and I'm sure you know that from your decades of work.
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If a person has a 4.0 and a ton of Ws scattered across the years, we do worry about the applicant as someone who is a perfectionist who is protecting the GPA. With the 3.7 reported by the OP, we have less of a concern in that regard. Likewise, the OP reports that this would be the first withdrawals after 3 years of prior coursework.

And no, 4.0s aren't that rare in the rarified air I breath in the admissions office of a T20.

We are trying to make the point that there are times when Ws are reasonable and times when they are a red flag.
 
LizzyM said:
If a person has a 4.0 and a ton of Ws scattered across the years, we do worry about the applicant as someone who is a perfectionist who is protecting the GPA. With the 3.7 reported by the OP, we have less of a concern in that regard. Likewise, the OP reports that this would be the first withdrawals after 3 years of prior coursework.

And no, 4.0s aren't that rare in the rarified air I breath in the admissions office of a T20.

We are trying to make the point that there are times when Ws are reasonable and times when they are a red flag.
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Are you sure you feel comfortable telling all of these students what is "reasonable" and unreasonable with medical school admissions though? I have been perusing a lot of these threads and the information is not that great to be honest.

Speaking just for my DO program, I have also seen it all with people getting A's and people with above-average stats getting rejected.

As far as T20 and bottom 20 (if there is such a ranking), my understanding is that an acceptance at any of these schools will get you to wherever it is you want to be professionally. I hope we do agree on that part though.
 
AJ25 said:
Also, 4.0's are also rare, and I'm sure you know that from your decades of work.
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A's are the most common undergraduate grade given to students. Yes it differs from school to school, but 4.0's are not uncommon post covid. The issue is how to differentiate and account for this grade inflation.
AJ25 said:
As far as T20 and bottom 20 (if there is such a ranking), my understanding is that an acceptance at any of these schools will get you to wherever it is you want to be professionally.
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This is true only on the surface. If your only goal is to be a physician, yes, you will get there going to any school. If your goal is to practice a specific type of medicine and/or have any combination of research, community outreach, policy making, etc there are more hurdles to clear if your school does not have resources in those areas of interest.
 
PickaGodnPray said:
If your only goal is to be a physician, yes, you will get there going to any school. If your goal is to practice a specific type of medicine and/or have any combination of research, community outreach, policy making, etc there are more hurdles to clear if your school does not have resources in those areas of interest.
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Do you feel the vast majority of people that peruse this forum are going to land at that destination though?

And then do you not feel that you can do all of those things at almost any school attached to a teaching institution in this country?

I'm genuinely curious.
 
AJ25 said:
Are you sure you feel comfortable telling all of these students what is "reasonable" and unreasonable with medical school admissions though? I have been perusing a lot of these threads and the information is not that great to be honest.

Speaking just for my DO program, I have also seen it all with people getting A's and people with above-average stats getting rejected.

As far as T20 and bottom 20 (if there is such a ranking), my understanding is that an acceptance at any of these schools will get you to wherever it is you want to be professionally. I hope we do agree on that part though.
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You do you, @AJ25. Take what you feel is relevant. Leave the rest. Offer your perspective based on your lived experience to help others. I've been doing that on this board for 20 years and I hope it has been reasonable and helped people become doctors.

A DO program may yield protect knowing that they are not going to be taking the homecoming queen to the prom but being happy to have many other good options to choose from and filling their class with applicants who are likely to successfully complete their studies and graduate as DOs.

I highly doubt that graduating from *any* medical school will get you wherever you want to be professionally. First, there is the winnowing that goes into selecting a class at each of the 100+ medical schools in the country. We might think of this as similar to assembling a college football team. Many schools have teams and a small proportion of team members go on to careers in the NFL but you aren't as likely to go into the NFL from Columbia as you are from the University of Alabama. It starts with the schools selecting the students they think are a good fit for what they have to offer and very talented and ambitious applicants choosing from among the schools that admit them. Then there are the resources available at each school to get you the dossier that you'll need to match in a highly competitive residency program in a highly competitive specialty that will lead to a highly competitive fellowship. If your goal is to be a primary care provider in rural America, you can get there from pretty much anywhere but if the goal is an aesthetic dermatology fellowship in a fancy zip code, you aren't going to get there from any med school in America. In some cases, pedigree matters.
 
AJ25 said:
Are you sure you feel comfortable telling all of these students what is "reasonable" and unreasonable with medical school admissions though? I have been perusing a lot of these threads and the information is not that great to be honest.
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Can I ask what information you would consider "great" or worthy of being "great"?

AJ25 said:
Speaking just for my DO program, I have also seen it all with people getting A's and people with above-average stats getting rejected. As far as T20 and bottom 20 (if there is such a ranking), my understanding is that an acceptance at any of these schools will get you to wherever it is you want to be professionally. I hope we do agree on that part though.
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In my mind whatever standard we use for T20 vs bottom 20, they all have to be LCME accredited. Thus in theory, it shouldn't matter what school you attend if your endgame is to become a doctor... i.e., earning an MD.

Of course, the analogy is that every house that passes inspection is liveable before you buy it. That doesn't mean the house is right for you.
 
Mr.Smile12 said:
Can I ask what information you would consider "great" or worthy of being "great"?


In my mind whatever standard we use for T20 vs bottom 20, they all have to be LCME accredited. Thus in theory, it shouldn't matter what school you attend if your endgame is to become a doctor... i.e., earning an MD.

Of course, the analogy is that every house that passes inspection is liveable before you buy it. That doesn't mean the house is right for you.
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I just don't think the average person who peruses this board is planning on becoming a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon or will be our next Surgeon General. I would bet that many people here would be just fine practicing medicine...ANYWHERE. I think the advice given should really take that into account considering there are many ways to become a doctor. It is tough of course but nowhere near how some people here make it out to be. I found a few of my classmates on this site and they got an acceptance despite advice that they would not get in. I was told that attending a Caribbean school meant that my application was DOA to a US program and I honestly believed that but it is obviously false! You can't be saying that stuff if it does not apply across the board.

Having said that, this writeup was one of the best I have seen on this site and I can confirm on my end--very accurate. I actually thought this was written by one of our adcom members! Now, if only all the information can be of this standard then you will REALLY be helping students. And that's really the point I'm trying to make here. What do you get by putting people down if there is some school out there that is going to give them a chance?

E

Thread 'SDN Article: Admissions Committees: The Art of the Decision'

The Student Doctor Network publishes articles weekly. Check out this article or other pre-dental articles at Student Doctor Network.

Abstract: Faculty serve three to four year terms on admissions committees, so they can vary significantly year-to-year with shifting priorities over time. Committee members filter applications through their experiences with past students, including both successful "rough diamonds" and problematic cases, creating informal risk assessment frameworks influenced by survivorship and affinity bias. Rather than trying to...
 
AJ25 said:
I just don't think the average person who peruses this board is planning on becoming a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon or will be our next Surgeon General. I would bet that many people here would be just fine practicing medicine...ANYWHERE. I think the advice given should really take that into account considering there are many ways to become a doctor. It is tough of course but nowhere near how some people here make it out to be. I found a few of my classmates on this site and they got an acceptance despite advice that they would not get in. I was told that attending a Caribbean school meant that my application was DOA to a US program and I honestly believed that but it is obviously false! You can't be saying that stuff if it does not apply across the board.
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Being fair, I tell everyone we deal with probabilities. It just takes one school to give anyone a chance. The challenge is knowing how schools give that chance, and that's where being on admissions committees for a decent tenure or being involved with decisions gives one insight. Not every adcom member will know. However, we rely on what we see as patterns from training and experience. As always...

Ill Be Back Jim Carrey GIF


AJ25 said:
E

Thread 'SDN Article: Admissions Committees: The Art of the Decision'

The Student Doctor Network publishes articles weekly. Check out this article or other pre-dental articles at Student Doctor Network.

Abstract: Faculty serve three to four year terms on admissions committees, so they can vary significantly year-to-year with shifting priorities over time. Committee members filter applications through their experiences with past students, including both successful "rough diamonds" and problematic cases, creating informal risk assessment frameworks influenced by survivorship and affinity bias. Rather than trying to...

Having said that, this writeup was one of the best I have seen on this site and I can confirm on my end--very accurate. I actually thought this was written by one of our adcom members! Now, if only all the information can be of this standard then you will REALLY be helping students. And that's really the point I'm trying to make here. What do you get by putting people down if there is some school out there that is going to give them a chance?
Click to expand...
While we love our forums community, the articles serve a purpose too. 🙂 Thanks for the complement about the writeup! (Keep reading! 🙂 )
 
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