W vs GPA

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

Hello to all, I am a 31 yr old married stay at home mom, just turned first year freshman. This is my first semester, and I already want to do a total withdraw from all my classes. I have already been through 2 nannies. My classes are not hard at all. I would easily ace these classes, but my attendance is just plain awful. I only go to class 3 days a week from 8 am to 11am, plus I am taking some online classes. Everytime there is a little snow, or ice my nannies would come late or not come at all, because of the weather, and they always blame traffic. They have caused me to miss about 6 classes so far, and I have about 9 weeks to go. There is a big snow storm approaching later today, and I know what to expect. My children are 4 and 1, and I just didn't want to drag them out at 6 in the morning to daycare, so I THOUGHT arranging in home care would work out, just 3 days a week and 5 hours a day. I think that maybe the nannies are not taking me seriously because it is part time work, but I do pay well, plus extra for gas. Anyway, the University has a great daycare with a waiting list a mile long. The director said I have an excellent chance of getting my children in if I go to school during the spring and summer semester. I need an honest opinion, I dont have any credits yet, and this is my first semester. I called my dream medical school and asked for an opinion. The woman who answered the phone quickly said that W's on the transcript makes their eyes flash red, and is a red flag to them. But she also said that they understand that situations come up, and as long as the W's don't become a pattern, I would be OK, and if I withdraw this semester, make sure that I dont do it anymore, and to avoid anymore W's, because they dont like them. She also said I will definitely have to give an explanation for my W's. So I'm asking you what you would do? Would you total withdraw and start again next semester with a clean slate or would you risk a potential low grade point? All of my professors deduct from your final grade after 3 absenses, and one bluntly states in her syllabus to drop after 3 absences. Thanks

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[awk]

First I would drop any and all internet/distance learning courses because they may not be acceptable to many schools. Then I would sort out my situation before I started taking classes. Having children is not a handicap or excuse for W's and many Medical schools do view these as F's. However, since it was your first semester you will have an easy time explaining it.

I would then stop calling medical schools or even thinking about gaining admission. You have your list of pre-reqs right? Start nailing those classes and getting strong grades. Thats all you should worry about your freshman year.

I know having kids at home can be time consuming but you have to find a way or choose another field. It only gets harder.

 

[twohearted]

I would drop. It doesn't sound like the nanny issue is going to be resolved this semester, so your grades will only get worse. You also said that you would have no problem acing the courses without your given situation. You want to show the ADCOMS this by getting a representative GPA. So I would drop, however you MUST get this nanny/daycare problem straightened out by the time you go back to school. I wouldn't worry about one semester of W's. Medical schools will understand IF you address the situation (ie, my first semester was an adjustment and a great logistical difficult, however, I fixed the issue and never faced the problem again.) Don't worry about medical schools counting Ws as Fs, either. What awk is talking about is something that is implied on the University of Florida's website somewhere. This is the only instance of a medical school having this policy that myself or anyone else has ever heard of. In addition, it is your AMCAS gpa that gets your foot in the medical school door. AMCAS reports the same gpa to every medical school you apply to (including U of F.) AMCAS does NOT count Ws as Fs. Now, some medical schools have their own internal policies of recomputing gpas. However, it is the AMCAS gpa that is used for initial screening purposes and thus most important. It sounds like you got off to an unfortunate yet understandable and correctable rough start. First, drop. Second, get the children situation squared away. Third, start again and this time nail the courses. When you apply, explain your situation in a positive manner such as stated above. You will be fine.

 

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

Awk: Thank you for responding, for this is truly great advice, I really appreciate it. Point well taken.

twohearted: Thank you so much for your wonderful advice and taking the time to clarify everything for me. This is really sound advice, and I love the explanation that you gave me to address the Adcoms. I know that I have a long journey ahead of me, but I am definately using that as part of my explanation!

I am going to make an appointment with my advisor and withdraw. And I am going to try this again for Spring/Summer. I will make sure the children are enrolled in quality daycare. I am disappointed, because I loved my classes and professors, and have built a great relationship with them, but I am relieved even more, to not risk a potentially dangerous grade point average, due to my poor attendance record.


Thanks again!

 

[Kateb4]

First I would drop any and all internet/distance learning courses because they may not be acceptable to many schools.

I seriously have to disagree with dropping the internet/distance learning option. I have taken several internet classes thru my university, and they are listed on my transcript just the same as any other on-campus class. Unless you are talking about some University of Phoenix thing, or classes not affiliated with your college, there is no way for an adcom to even know that they are off-campus. I personally think that this is a great option for parents, and I wouldn't be able to take as much if I wasn't able to take a few classes this way per semester. Plus, I am much better at keeping on top of these classes because I can do them on my time, which is usually after the kids are asleep, instead of having to go to a lecture in the middle of the day.

A side note, I also have two young kids and we have gone thru several nannies in the last couple of years while I have been finishing my undergrad. I would keep looking for someone, maybe withdraw from your on-campus classes this semester while you look for someone new that will be responsible and reliable. It just really sucks to withdraw from everything, because at this point, you're also losing the money, so talk to your teachers first, maybe they could cut you some slack, but don't count on it!

Best of luck to you, and hang in there! Once you get into the routine after a couple of semesters it gets better.

 

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

Kateb4: Thank you very much for clarifying that! You must have been reading my mind, because that was going to be my next thread question. I was thinking the exact same thing. My university offers so many online classes except for the obvious math and science. I need to take the online classes which are mostly general requirements anyway, this option will save me so much time. The online courses look exactly the same as the rest of the courses. They are hugely popular and fill up quickly. Contrary to popular belief, these classes are NOT easier than going to class. The only difference is you don't go to class, which is a huge plus, but you definitely have to work harder at comprehending the material on your own. I also do all my work when the children are asleep. I talked to my professors about my attendance, unfortunately I could not guarantee them that this will not happen again. If they were to grade right now based on my exams and paper grades I would have an A+, when you factor in my attendance penalties I'm already at a C. I know they would cut me some slack but I can't fully depend on my nanny. All of the professors said they grade on a curve and there is almost always some premed gunner that will totally destroy the grading curve for everyone else. I am prepared to bite the bullet this one time, and yes I have already lost a ton of money (childcare, books, gas, and of course tuition, I only get 25% back at this point). I cannot let this happen again. DH hasn't said anything YET. I don't want to give him a reason to start questioning whether or not I can reasonably attain this. I know that I can do this. I will hang in there, as I continue to search for a good nanny I will secure the children on the list at the university daycare as a back up. Thanks again for your priceless advice and words of encouragement. I truly appreciate it.

 

[awk]

I seriously have to disagree with dropping the internet/distance learning option. I have taken several internet classes thru my university, and they are listed on my transcript just the same as any other on-campus class. Unless you are talking about some University of Phoenix thing, or classes not affiliated with your college, there is no way for an adcom to even know that they are off-campus. I personally think that this is a great option for parents, and I wouldn't be able to take as much if I wasn't able to take a few classes this way per semester. Plus, I am much better at keeping on top of these classes because I can do them on my time, which is usually after the kids are asleep, instead of having to go to a lecture in the middle of the day.

Sure the Medical schools may not find out but if they do you will be in a bind. They do have people who check you pre-reqs by course number and section after you are admitted. If they find you haven't completed the pre-reqs in a proper fashion they will drop you and go to a waitlister. It happened to my friend last cycle. When I said you should drop the Internet courses I meant English comp and stuff like that, especially Science courses! You have to take science in the classroom. If you take pre-reqs online they will not be accepted at all schools. If I knew which school you are applying to I could tell you their stance but here is a classic example:

Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses through distance learning or through the internet?

A: Prerequisite courses must be taken in a traditional classroom environment.

http://www.med.ufl.edu/oea/admiss/site/FAQ.shtml#6

 

[sunnyjohn]

So FL doesn't like online classes?

Simple solution, Don't apply there. Distance learning has been around since the 1800's. Folks need to get with the program.

People have gotten accepted with one or 2 pre-reqs lacking. You med school usually says your matriculation is contingent on finishing the pre-req (usually a stray english, humanities or O-chem class). Check the pre-allo and pre-osteo forum. Many have the same story.


Many reputable colleges and Uni's offer distance learning. Do I suggest you take most of your degree that way? Heck no! Check with the medical college you wish to apply to.

 

[Jacq]

Taking general requirements online (ie. history, english, sociology) are fine. They transfer over just like regular courses on your transcript and they ARE accepted (i've gone over this with my pre-med advisor). However, Awk is right in regards to med school pre-reqs (bio, chem, physics), these need to be taken in class to be accepted.
I'm in a similar situation (30 year old sophmore/junior), have a 2 yr old & work graveyard shift full time. I've been taking a few online classes for my gen eds and the rest at night and/or Saturdays. It's not easy, but it CAN be done. Maybe since you're just starting out you should stick to 1 or 2 gen ed online classes this semester. That way you give yourself some time to get used to balancing school w/home & kids and figure out what you want to do about next semester while still getting some course work done.
You CAN do this, just take your time and do what works for you! Good luck!
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions

 

[Kateb4]

Sure the Medical schools may not find out but if they do you will be in a bind. They do have people who check you pre-reqs by course number and section after you are admitted. If they find you haven't completed the pre-reqs in a proper fashion they will drop you and go to a waitlister. It happened to my friend last cycle. When I said you should drop the Internet courses I meant English comp and stuff like that, especially Science courses! You have to take science in the classroom. If you take pre-reqs online they will not be accepted at all schools. If I knew which school you are applying to I could tell you their stance but here is a classic example:

Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses through distance learning or through the internet?

A: Prerequisite courses must be taken in a traditional classroom environment.

http://www.med.ufl.edu/oea/admiss/site/FAQ.shtml#6

I agree that there are some classes that you cannot take in an online format, such as any class requiring a lab, but things like english comp, which I did take online, are fine with most schools. I did talk to the reps of all of the IL schools at the med-school admissions conference last year about this and they all said that non-lab classes were fine to do as distance-learning classes. My school dosn't offer any lab classes online. The official transcrips that are sent do not differentiate at all in course number from the on-campus classes, and official transcripts do not include section number, and even if they did the online classes still have a similar section number to our online classes.

So, I guess if you are worried about it, ask the school. Apparently Univ of FL has a policy against it, but all 6 schools in IL are fine with them.

 

[twohearted]

Awk and everyone else are right in giving advice to not take any prereqs online. Other courses should be okay, but I would try to minimize it. So as long as your online classes are not prereqs this semester, you could compromise and not drop them. Try to take as few online courses as possible. However, med schools are understanding of extenuating circumstances, such as OP's, but there is a limit. Distance/online courses, however-based in reality this may be, are precieved as easy As which is unimpressive. If you can show that you can hack med school however in another way, then go for it.

What is up with U Fl by the way? They sound like unbelievable sticklers. Ws = Fs? That is ridiculous! There are many reasons where someone's need to drop does not = their acedemic ability (ie in the case of the OP.) I like sunnyjohn's solution to the problem.

 

[awk]

What is up with U Fl by the way? They sound like unbelievable sticklers. Ws = Fs? That is ridiculous! There are many reasons where someone's need to drop does not = their acedemic ability (ie in the case of the OP.) I like sunnyjohn's solution to the problem.

UF is like any other school. They recieve thousands of applications and have to narrow the stack down somehow. At least they are upfront about it unlike other schools. OP just remember there will always be PLENTY of applicants who did not take any online courses and who have no Ws. You will be competing to gain admission over these people.

 

[Beau Geste]

So, I guess if you are worried about it, ask the school. Apparently Univ of FL has a policy against it, but all 6 schools in IL are fine with them.

I second that with the info I got from the IL schools.

 

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

Sunnyjohn: Thanks for the great advice , and no, I have no intention of applying to med school in Florida. Not that there is anything wrong with Florida, I love it there.

Jacq: You are a great inspiration , thanks so much for your advice! You and I have similar situations, as well as kateb4, so you know how important it is to be able to take some of the fluff classes that we need to graduate online. I don't know I've got some urgent research to do. You story is just amazing, full time night job, two year old, husband, home, and school. Wow, that's all I have to say. And you are a junior, congrats to you, you totally inspire me.

kateb4: Thank for the great info as usual! That is exactly what I was planning on doing. No pre-reqs, just the fluff courses that are required for graduation.

twohearted: Thank you for the great advice as usual! I have no intention of taking any pre-reqs online. I was just taking courses online that are required to graduate not matriculate.

awk: Thank you for your wonderful insight and advice. I am not taking any pre-reqs online. I didn't mean to mislead anyone. The thought never crossed my mind, they are not an online option anyway. ChemI/II have labs and BIO I/II have lecture, lab and recitation. I truly appreciate you giving me the pros and cons of this situation, but I must ask, how would the ADCOMS know the difference between Philosophy 101-01 and Philosophy 101-2, -3, -4, or -5 because that's the only thing that you will see on the transcript?

By the way, my home is Superior Twp. MI. My house is >10 minutes from my dream school, Michigan . I'm also 5 minutes from Eastern Mich, where I attend school. My second choice is Wayne State, where I attended a symposium and tour for pre-meds, this event made up my mind on going back to school. Third choice is MSU, and I am only 40 minutes from Toledo OH, so I will apply at Ohio schools as well.

 

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

awk: Forget, the last question, as I reread your post and I see you have already answered it. My second question, is do they really go back and check the course numbers to see if the class is online? Not the pre-reqs just the general requirements? If so, then wow! I didn't not know that some schools do this. I hope that my choice schools don't do this. I will meet with my pre-med advisor and also call the medical schools as well. Thanks again for the info.

 

[awk]

awk: Forget, the last question, as I reread your post and I see you have already answered it. My second question, is do they really go back and check the course numbers to see if the class in online? Not the pre-reqs just the general requirements? If so, then wow! I didn't not know that some schools do this. I hope that my choice schools don't do this. I will meet with my pre-med advisor and also call the medical schools as well. Thanks again for the info.

Its their job to make sure the actual courses you took fufill the pre-reqs. They don't bother calling the school unless there is some unclarity. If your not taking pre-reqs online don't even worry about it. But Medical schools do call undergrad admin and verify if they want.

 

[?DreamsRMadeOf]

awk: Thank you for clarifying that. Thanks again for the great advice.

And thank you to all of you, who took time to post, for your wonderful insight and advice on this matter, has helped me to figure things out and finally move forward. I truly appreciate it.

 

[Krisss17]

I guess it would be a school's perogative whether or not to accept online courses, but of course, no blanket statements can be made.

Another thing to ask, are you going for an MD or a DO? I would think that DO schools are a little more open to distance learning as many of them use the Problem Based Learning curriculum which requires a lot of self-discipline. Taking online classes and doing well shows a maturity in learning. Just make sure the schools are accredited - Universities that offer online classes that correspond directly with face-to-face classes are probably the best, plus you can always choose to take one or two classes face-to-face.

While I will be doing all of my science pre-reqs face-to-face, I will be finishing my bachelors online. I live about 80 miles away from this Uni and with working 3 12-hr night shifts, it is the best situation for me. I also know that when I apply to med school (and it will be a DO school as I prefer their philosophy of treating the whole patient), I'm confident that it will only help me, not hurt me.

That's my two cents!
Krisss17

 

[sunnyjohn]

I guess it would be a school's perogative whether or not to accept online courses, but of course, no blanket statements can be made.

Another thing to ask, are you going for an MD or a DO? I would think that DO schools are a little more open to distance learning as many of them use the Problem Based Learning curriculum which requires a lot of self-discipline. Taking online classes and doing well shows a maturity in learning. Just make sure the schools are accredited - Universities that offer online classes that correspond directly with face-to-face classes are probably the best, plus you can always choose to take one or two classes face-to-face.

While I will be doing all of my science pre-reqs face-to-face, I will be finishing my bachelors online. I live about 80 miles away from this Uni and with working 3 12-hr night shifts, it is the best situation for me. I also know that when I apply to med school (and it will be a DO school as I prefer their philosophy of treating the whole patient), I'm confident that it will only help me, not hurt me.

That's my two cents!
Krisss17

3-12 hr night shifts? Are you a nurse?

Whih college are you getting you degree from TESC? COSC? Excelsior?

~~