Wages of US doctors + non-Americans practicing in the US

[LateralMalleolus]

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Hello everyone 🙂

I would be very greatful for any insights.
I have been thinking for some time now in which country to start practicing medicine once I am graduated. Currently I live in Europe. I have no desire to stay in my country as the wages of most physicians are laughable here.

I know that in order to be able to work as a physician in the US, I would need to take USMLEs first. I have to admit I have not done my research yet in terms of how many of those exams I would need to take and when precisely, nor am I much familiar with the rest of the requirements. I am going to read up on it all but since one cannot rely on information online 100%, I would much more prefer to hear from you 🙂

As I am pretty familiar with what it tastes like to live in poverty, I am also interested in getting to know whether practicing medicine in the US is also going to pay off financially. I have found out this : How Much Can a Physician Expect to Get Paid?

Not sure how much it reflects reality.
I assume these are untaxed numbers ? And after taxation it is supposed to be around quarter less ?

In Germany, the average salary of an assistant physician ( = not much experienced yet ) seems to be around 65,000 EUR/year ( = prior taxation).

I am very much curious about the comparison of working as a physician in the US, Australia, the UK, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
All kind of information is highly appreciated (= how difficult it is start working as a doctor in the country as an expat, whether one is likely to experience any kind of cultural "rejection", how much of brutal the first year is, how friendly the people are towards foreigners, what requirements one has to meet...and many other things.

Please, do not get me wrong - I am not in medicine solely because of money. Not at all 🙂 I am just so much fed up with constantly having to worry about money...

Thank you so much !

 

[M&L]

Hello everyone 🙂

I would be very greatful for any insights.
I have been thinking for some time now in which country to start practicing medicine once I am graduated. Currently I live in Europe. I have no desire to stay in my country as the wages of most physicians are laughable here.

I know that in order to be able to work as a physician in the US, I would need to take USMLEs first. I have to admit I have not done my research yet in terms of how many of those exams I would need to take and when precisely, nor am I much familiar with the rest of the requirements. I am going to read up on it all but since one cannot rely on information online 100%, I would much more prefer to hear from you 🙂

As I am pretty familiar with what it tastes like to live in poverty, I am also interested in getting to know whether practicing medicine in the US is also going to pay off financially. I have found out this : How Much Can a Physician Expect to Get Paid?

Not sure how much it reflects reality.
I assume these are untaxed numbers ? And after taxation it is supposed to be around quarter less ?

In Germany, the average salary of an assistant physician ( = not much experienced yet ) seems to be around 65,000 EUR/year ( = prior taxation).

I am very much curious about the comparison of working as a physician in the US, Australia, the UK, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
All kind of information is highly appreciated (= how difficult it is start working as a doctor in the country as an expat, whether one is likely to experience any kind of cultural "rejection", how much of brutal the first year is, how friendly the people are towards foreigners, what requirements one has to meet...and many other things.

Please, do not get me wrong - I am not in medicine solely because of money. Not at all 🙂 I am just so much fed up with constantly having to worry about money...

Thank you so much !

Dear OP,

i am sure my more experienced colleagues will give you more detailed information, but i just wanted to say that there is NOTHING WRONG about wanting to provide for yourself and your family. Doctors in any country, in my opinion, work very hard, and deserve to be well compensated.
I am an immigrant as well (btw feel free to message me personally if you want insight of an immigrant), and in my country doctors get paid less then cashiers in the bank sometimes (and those dont make much money either). I do not agree that money should be the main reason to chose medicine, but it IS a factor for a lot of people. I grew up in a very poor family, and i am going to have to take care of my elderly parents very soon. So, dont worry, no one will think bad of you here, i think, for asking about money.

My brother in law got a medical degree back home, and immigrated here to practice medicine. He had to study for boards, pass them, apply for residencies. It was a very hard road, but he is very hardworking, and he did well for himself. Very well, actually. so, it can be done!

BTW i lived in Germany, - it is a wonderful place. I have a lot of amazing memories. I did gain 40 pounds though, which i blame on delicious schnitzels, and belgium beer. hahaha.

good luck.

Very respectfully
M&L

 

[IMG69]

Well i'll chime in, I'm a UK student who contemplated going to the US but now i've decided i'm going into an assistenzarzt (residency) position you mention in Germany.

In Germany as a assistenzarzt (resident) you get about 2600 euros/month, rent in the larger cities such as Berlin you can find yourself having an extremely nice life for about 1200/month. The 2600 is the base pay, for surgical things you'll generally earn an extra 200-300 euros/month due to overtime etc also the salary goes up I believe 300-500 euro/month for every year of assistenzarzt/residency. These numbers are all post tax so what you'll actually take home.

In the UK for FY1 you'll get less pay than Germany and your rent will generally be higher especially if you land somewhere like London.

As someone from Oceania, the pay and hours here are much better than the UK, you'll earn about 10% more due to the reduction in tax and rent would probably be comparable between the UK and OCE except for the outliers of course Sydney, London etc obviously these places are gonna cost a lot.

It seems that the German lifestyle seems comparable to that of OCE (NZ/AUS) in terms of a lot healthier work hours.

It's hard to talk about anything else since your question is so broad, the training in the UK takes forever if you want something surgical. I chose Germany because it's basically a combo of the USA with the UK in terms of direct entry into your specialty after med school and then in the fact that it's a public system.

 

[Splenda88]

Hello everyone 🙂

I would be very greatful for any insights.
I have been thinking for some time now in which country to start practicing medicine once I am graduated. Currently I live in Europe. I have no desire to stay in my country as the wages of most physicians are laughable here.

I know that in order to be able to work as a physician in the US, I would need to take USMLEs first. I have to admit I have not done my research yet in terms of how many of those exams I would need to take and when precisely, nor am I much familiar with the rest of the requirements. I am going to read up on it all but since one cannot rely on information online 100%, I would much more prefer to hear from you 🙂

As I am pretty familiar with what it tastes like to live in poverty, I am also interested in getting to know whether practicing medicine in the US is also going to pay off financially. I have found out this : How Much Can a Physician Expect to Get Paid?

Not sure how much it reflects reality.
I assume these are untaxed numbers ? And after taxation it is supposed to be around quarter less ?

In Germany, the average salary of an assistant physician ( = not much experienced yet ) seems to be around 65,000 EUR/year ( = prior taxation).

I am very much curious about the comparison of working as a physician in the US, Australia, the UK, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
All kind of information is highly appreciated (= how difficult it is start working as a doctor in the country as an expat, whether one is likely to experience any kind of cultural "rejection", how much of brutal the first year is, how friendly the people are towards foreigners, what requirements one has to meet...and many other things.

Please, do not get me wrong - I am not in medicine solely because of money. Not at all 🙂 I am just so much fed up with constantly having to worry about money...

Thank you so much !

US resident physician here and immigrant as well, but I attended US school. The fact of the matter is physicians in the US are rich (but not wealthy like celebrities you see on TV). Period. The number your provide in your link is below average of what US physicians make... If you are from Europe, I am assuming that you won't have no student loan to pay back; therefore, you will get to keep all of your paycheck as US doc, which can be anywhere between $12,000 to 20,000 per month after taxes for the not so 'competitive' specialties (e.g. Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Anesthesiology, Pathology etc...).

I was also told Australian physicians do well, but I am not familiar with their system.

I have a few international medical graduates from Asia and Africa in my program and from what I heard from them, you need to pass USMLE step1 and USMLE step 2 CK and step 2 CS. Then you will be aligible for a J1 visa, which will allow you to apply for residency. You can get into the not so competitive specialties that I mentioned above if you get average score in these exams...

By the way, there is nothing wrong about wanting to have a better financial future for yourself and subsequent generation(s).

 

[deleted480308]

Don’t let anyone here tell you they don’t care about money. Do what you need to do to handle your business

 

[LateralMalleolus]

First thank you ALL so much for your comments ! I so much appreciate the time taken. Really 🙂

Before I proceed responding - just for you to get an idea - it is not unusual here for a just graduated doctor to earn 1.000 USD / month after taxation...It´s laughable.

 

[Doggeronie]

Hello everyone 🙂

I would be very greatful for any insights.
I have been thinking for some time now in which country to start practicing medicine once I am graduated. Currently I live in Europe. I have no desire to stay in my country as the wages of most physicians are laughable here.

I know that in order to be able to work as a physician in the US, I would need to take USMLEs first. I have to admit I have not done my research yet in terms of how many of those exams I would need to take and when precisely, nor am I much familiar with the rest of the requirements. I am going to read up on it all but since one cannot rely on information online 100%, I would much more prefer to hear from you 🙂

As I am pretty familiar with what it tastes like to live in poverty, I am also interested in getting to know whether practicing medicine in the US is also going to pay off financially. I have found out this : How Much Can a Physician Expect to Get Paid?

Not sure how much it reflects reality.
I assume these are untaxed numbers ? And after taxation it is supposed to be around quarter less ?

In Germany, the average salary of an assistant physician ( = not much experienced yet ) seems to be around 65,000 EUR/year ( = prior taxation).

I am very much curious about the comparison of working as a physician in the US, Australia, the UK, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
All kind of information is highly appreciated (= how difficult it is start working as a doctor in the country as an expat, whether one is likely to experience any kind of cultural "rejection", how much of brutal the first year is, how friendly the people are towards foreigners, what requirements one has to meet...and many other things.

Please, do not get me wrong - I am not in medicine solely because of money. Not at all 🙂 I am just so much fed up with constantly having to worry about money...

Thank you so much !

Yes, being a physician in the US pays off tremendously. It's consistently ranked as one of the most lucrative professions and the job security is incredibly high.

That being said, as you are a foreign medical graduate the road to practicing in the US will not be easy. It will most likely take you 2-3 years before you pass the USMLE's and obtain a residency (if you're lucky enough to obtain one on your first attempt), and then after that you will have to go through 3+ years of residency training. So it'll be quite a lengthy process.

 

[LateralMalleolus]

Yes, being a physician in the US pays off tremendously. It's consistently ranked as one of the most lucrative professions and the job security is incredibly high.

That being said, as you are a foreign medical graduate the road to practicing in the US will not be easy. It will most likely take you 2-3 years before you pass the USMLE's and obtain a residency (if you're lucky enough to obtain one on your first attempt), and then after that you will have to go through 3+ years of residency training. So it'll be quite a lengthy process.

Thank you so much too 🙂

I am 29 (I was forced to take gap years because it is not usual in my country to be given student loans and started studying later) so time may also be a factor. Actually it will be a big factor in the decision process.

The most appealing scenario for me is to work for up to 30 hours a week. My life has been nothing but pain, study and endless work and I would finally like to also get to taste what a normal life including social life and travelling, is...

So I need to figure out which country offers the greatest time-consumed/money-earned ratio too.
And I would so much love to live somewhere with warm people around.

I can imagine living quite a simple life, I do not need luxury. Just a loving person and a nice house in the nature and enough free time.

Thank you so much for your very helpful comments ! 🙂

 

[LunaOri]

I can't imagine any residency program in the US in which you can work for only 30 hours a week. As an attending physician, you can work in the ED or urgent care with limited hours, but most specialties work pretty long hours.

 

[LateralMalleolus]

I can't imagine any residency program in the US in which you can work for only 30 hours a week. As an attending physician, you can work in the ED or urgent care with limited hours, but most specialties work pretty long hours.

I see.
I mean I could do 40 hours/a week for a few years but afterwards I would much more prefer having a practice and be more or less my own boss.

 

[deleted480308]

I see.
I mean I could do 40 hours/a week for a few years but afterwards I would much more prefer having a practice and be more or less my own boss.

Residency is closer to 70s for a few years, then you get to titrate your schedule to your income needs

 

[Doggeronie]

I see.
I mean I could do 40 hours/a week for a few years but afterwards I would much more prefer having a practice and be more or less my own boss.

It would take you 2-3 years of studying/taking exams and doing clinical clerkships before you would even obtain a residency. FMG's are given least priority in the residency match and it is a very difficult process for them to obtain a residency.
After that, you would have to work about 80 hours a week for at least 3 years during residency. Only after that would you be given full scope of practice.

It's not an easy process at all, it requires a lot of work.

 

[proudofmykids]

Thank you so much too 🙂

I am 29 (I was forced to take gap years because it is not usual in my country to be given student loans and started studying later) so time may also be a factor. Actually it will be a big factor in the decision process.

The most appealing scenario for me is to work for up to 30 hours a week. My life has been nothing but pain, study and endless work and I would finally like to also get to taste what a normal life including social life and travelling, is...

So I need to figure out which country offers the greatest time-consumed/money-earned ratio too.
And I would so much love to live somewhere with warm people around.

I can imagine living quite a simple life, I do not need luxury. Just a loving person and a nice house in the nature and enough free time.

Thank you so much for your very helpful comments ! 🙂

It doesnt sound like the US path would make sense. Afaik, even very experienced foreign medical graduates, need to pass Student Board Exams. As others indicate, it could take 2-3 years to study and pass the student board exams. Then 3-7 years additional training in Residency for your specialty area of medicine.

 

[Splenda88]

It doesnt sound like the US path would make sense. Afaik, even very experienced foreign medical graduates, need to pass Student Board Exams. As others indicate, it could take 2-3 years to study and pass the student board exams. Then 3-7 years additional training in Residency for your specialty area of medicine.

Why will it take that long to pass US boards? I understand step1 can be hard for FMG because most foreign medical schools are not basic science heavy like the US system. But step 2 CS/CK should not be hard for FMG since most complete 1-yr internship as part of their requirements for graduation... 6-9 months and 3-4 months should be good enough to study for step1 and step2 CK/CS respectively.

OP can become a full fledged US physician in 4-6 yrs which is not bad IMO... Besides, OP will make a $50-65k/yr while in residency and some residency like FM, pathology, psychiatry are not hard core in term of work-hour.

 

[Kuratz]

Rubs me a little the wrong way when international docs who reap the benefits of a free (with possible stipend) education and shortened training want to immediately bail to enjoy the rewards for US docs who have spent hefty 6 figures and go through the meat grinder before earning those rewards. OP doesn't even want to work hard or serve some particular population or something unique. No offense OP but I want the opportunity to go to some US trainee who has the massive debt and just spent their 20s/30s in the hospital. Your relatively lower compensation partially reflects your free education. Want to come to the US to practice? You are going to have to work your ass off to get here. Moaning about a 40 hour work week is tone-deaf.

 

[Doggeronie]

Rubs me a little the wrong way when international docs who reap the benefits of a free (with possible stipend) education and shortened training want to immediately bail to enjoy the rewards for US docs who have spent hefty 6 figures and go through the meat grinder before earning those rewards. OP doesn't even want to work hard or serve some particular population or something unique. No offense OP but I want the opportunity to go to some US trainee who has the massive debt and just spent their 20s/30s in the hospital. Your relatively lower compensation partially reflects your free education. Want to come to the US to practice? You are going to have to work your ass off to get here. Moaning about a 40 hour work week is tone-deaf.

I mean there are definitely many, many wonderful FMG's who add incredible value to our healthcare system. These people are often at the top of their class in their home countries, and come here since the medical profession is undervalued and underpaid where they are from.
They already get discriminated against in the residency match, those who make it through are those who undoubtedly deserve to be here. And they aren't really stealing spots from AMG's, AMG's basically get first dibs throughout the entire process.

That being said, it seems like OP doesn't understand how difficult becoming a practicing physician is in the US. It will become abundantly clear to him/her with time.

 

[Splenda88]

Rubs me a little the wrong way when international docs who reap the benefits of a free (with possible stipend) education and shortened training want to immediately bail to enjoy the rewards for US docs who have spent hefty 6 figures and go through the meat grinder before earning those rewards. OP doesn't even want to work hard or serve some particular population or something unique. No offense OP but I want the opportunity to go to some US trainee who has the massive debt and just spent their 20s/30s in the hospital. Your relatively lower compensation partially reflects your free education. Want to come to the US to practice? You are going to have to work your ass off to get here. Moaning about a 40 hour work week is tone-deaf.

It's not OP's fault that we have system that is taking advantage of easy $$$ in term government loan... There are many threads here in which attending and even med students who think shortening US medical education would be bad when the same system is hiring FMG who complete med school in 5-6 yr...

Unless the US school I attended is different from all other US medical schools, there is no way someone will convince me that 8-yr (4+4) to get an MD degree is not excessive. A 3-yr + 3 yr system would yield similar result... Heck! even a 2 + 3 would be ok to start residency...

 

[hallowmann]

Why will it take that long to pass US boards? I understand step1 can be hard for FMG because most foreign medical schools are not basic science heavy like the US system. But step 2 CS/CK should not be hard for FMG since most complete 1-yr internship as part of their requirements for graduation... 6-9 months and 3-4 months should be good enough to study for step1 and step2 CK/CS respectively.

OP can become a full fledged US physician in 4-6 yrs which is not bad IMO... Besides, OP will make a $50-65k/yr while in residency and some residency like FM, pathology, psychiatry are not hard core in term of work-hour.

The process of actually taking the Steps will likely not take more than 1-2 yrs, but then they will need ECFMG certification and then apply to residency, which can easily add 1-2 yrs if timing isn't right. Realistically the process would be at least 6-7 yrs including residency.

As far as hours, OP even the "lightest" hour residencies will have you working on average 50-60 hrs (like Psych and Path). FM, IM, and most of the rest will have you working 60-70 hrs on average per week, where some months will be closer to 75-80 hrs/wk and some will be closer to 55-60 hrs/wk. When you quote those average salaries, that's usually based on an average 55 hr work week (some specialties are more, some are less) as an attending (a physician who has completed residency training). That's also pre-tax, and the average US physician is likely paying closer to 1/3 of their salary to taxes. You simply will not find any residency that has you working anywhere close to only 40 hrs a week.

Also, since you don't seem very familiar with the residency process, I'll add that ultimately it is a period of 3-7 yrs (depending on specialty) that is required for IMGs in almost all states for medical licensure (i.e. you will not be able to work as a physician in the US without one). It typically involves working 6 days a week for a salary of $50-60,000/yr (pre-tax, taxes would likely be ~20%, but might be less depending on the state).

Per accreditation guidelines, you should not work >80 hrs/wk averaged over 4 weeks and should have a total of at least 4 non-working days in a 4 week period. To put this in perspective, you could theoretically work 100 hrs/week for 2 weeks, 60 hrs/week the next two weeks, and you would not be violating duty hours. You could also theoretically work 24 days straight and then have 4 days off without violating resident work restrictions. You may also work for a period of 28 hrs (24 hrs of "new" patient care responsibilities and 4 hours of following up or charting) continuously, but you must have at least 14 hrs of break after such a call shift and 8 hrs in between other work shifts.

On average, residents receive 3-4 wks off for vacation and sick leave per year. Beyond that, and it may extend your residency.

Personally, I think if your frame of reference is a 30-hr work week and likely 6 or more weeks off for vacation, you will not be happy coming to the US and doing residency here.

 

[proudofmykids]

Why will it take that long to pass US boards? I understand step1 can be hard for FMG because most foreign medical schools are not basic science heavy like the US system. But step 2 CS/CK should not be hard for FMG since most complete 1-yr internship as part of their requirements for graduation... 6-9 months and 3-4 months should be good enough to study for step1 and step2 CK/CS respectively.

OP can become a full fledged US physician in 4-6 yrs which is not bad IMO... Besides, OP will make a $50-65k/yr while in residency and some residency like FM, pathology, psychiatry are not hard core in term of work-hour.

It is my understanding that some FMGs are in school only four years total versus the US 8years. This has lot to do with tons of New content to study and then lots of test prep to pass Step1.

 

[Candidate2017]

The most appealing scenario for me is to work for up to 30 hours a week. My life has been nothing but pain, study and endless work and I would finally like to also get to taste what a normal life including social life and travelling, is...

You will be disappointed if that's your goal. America is where immigrants come to work their butts off for the chance to make lots of money so their kids can work for 30 hrs a week or less. American doctors work pretty hard. Your goals are better met in Germany. It's either money or time.

 

[Emmet2301]

It is my understanding that some FMGs are in school only four years total versus the US 8years. This has lot to do with tons of New content to study and then lots of test prep to pass Step1.

No most places I know of are at least 5-6 years for the MBBS.

 

[Dave1980]

Rubs me a little the wrong way when international docs who reap the benefits of a free (with possible stipend) education and shortened training want to immediately bail to enjoy the rewards for US docs who have spent hefty 6 figures and go through the meat grinder before earning those rewards. OP doesn't even want to work hard or serve some particular population or something unique. No offense OP but I want the opportunity to go to some US trainee who has the massive debt and just spent their 20s/30s in the hospital. Your relatively lower compensation partially reflects your free education. Want to come to the US to practice? You are going to have to work your ass off to get here. Moaning about a 40 hour work week is tone-deaf.

Don't worry...it doesn't seem that the OP will ever be a doc in the USA and achieve that 400k salary on 30 hours of work a week...lol

 

[darklabel]

The likelihood Op makes it is pretty low honestly. This isn't the 90s anymore and its vastly much harder for a graduated international doc to match in the US. Its possible, but its a long road that will require Op to restudy a ton of materials for the steps (which are expensive) and will have to get ECFMG certified. Nvm based on what I've read if he fails or scores low on the Steps, he's pretty much done for. My program in IM (which isn't very competitive to get into) would auto-screen you honestly and have been shifting away from taking FMGs/IMGs to focusing on American grads and according to my program director a lot of programs are shifting towards that model.

Only hope I see is you can focus towards programs that intentionally look for foreign docs where education is secondary (or non-existent) and you get used as cheap labor for a few years. Those still have a large requirement to get in as the number of FMGs applying continues to increase.

 

[Skiriboribobo]

US resident physician here and immigrant as well, but I attended US school. The fact of the matter is physicians in the US are rich (but not wealthy like celebrities you see on TV). Period. The number your provide in your link is below average of what US physicians make... If you are from Europe, I am assuming that you won't have no student loan to pay back; therefore, you will get to keep all of your paycheck as US doc, which can be anywhere between $12,000 to 20,000 per month after taxes for the not so 'competitive' specialties (e.g. Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Anesthesiology, Pathology etc...).
I was also told Australian physicians do well, but I am not familiar with their system.
I have a few international medical graduates from Asia and Africa in my program and from what I heard from them, you need to pass USMLE step1 and USMLE step 2 CK and step 2 CS. Then you will be aligible for a J1 visa, which will allow you to apply for residency. You can get into the not so competitive specialties that I mentioned above if you get average score in these exams...
By the way, there is nothing wrong about wanting to have a better financial future for yourself and subsequent generation(s).

 

[Tangerine123]

Hello everyone 🙂

I would be very greatful for any insights.
I have been thinking for some time now in which country to start practicing medicine once I am graduated. Currently I live in Europe. I have no desire to stay in my country as the wages of most physicians are laughable here.

I know that in order to be able to work as a physician in the US, I would need to take USMLEs first. I have to admit I have not done my research yet in terms of how many of those exams I would need to take and when precisely, nor am I much familiar with the rest of the requirements. I am going to read up on it all but since one cannot rely on information online 100%, I would much more prefer to hear from you 🙂

As I am pretty familiar with what it tastes like to live in poverty, I am also interested in getting to know whether practicing medicine in the US is also going to pay off financially. I have found out this : How Much Can a Physician Expect to Get Paid?

Not sure how much it reflects reality.
I assume these are untaxed numbers ? And after taxation it is supposed to be around quarter less ?

In Germany, the average salary of an assistant physician ( = not much experienced yet ) seems to be around 65,000 EUR/year ( = prior taxation).

I am very much curious about the comparison of working as a physician in the US, Australia, the UK, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
All kind of information is highly appreciated (= how difficult it is start working as a doctor in the country as an expat, whether one is likely to experience any kind of cultural "rejection", how much of brutal the first year is, how friendly the people are towards foreigners, what requirements one has to meet...and many other things.

Please, do not get me wrong - I am not in medicine solely because of money. Not at all 🙂 I am just so much fed up with constantly having to worry about money...

Thank you so much !

I can speek for Germany because I'm currently doing my Psych residency here

If you graduated from a EU country the paperwork is really easy. You just have to pass a Medical Language examination called the Fachsprachprüfung (Based around german C1 language knowledge). Non EU Physicians must pass an additional knowledge test called Kenntnisprüfung

Residencies last a minimum of 5 years and it worka via "achievements". You have a log-book where you documentate all of your experiences. For example, making numbers up. A Surgeon has to collect 50 Apendicectomies within the 5 years.

After the 5 years and after you collected all the requirements in your log book you may apply to be board certified.

Residents get paid according to a set national scheme. PGY1 residents earn around 4,500€ per month before taxes. This is really good and is more than enough to support you and your family.

Since the residency system is based on expefiences you can switch hospitals easily to cover most of them. Are you at a hospital without a NICU and can't continue with your peds training? Look for a hospital with one and switch. It's really easy to find a vacant spot (adds in the newspaper, facebook, internet etc)

I guess it depends on your hospital, but quality of life is good. At my hospital, in Psych we do 30-40 hours/week-ish and have night shift aprox twice a month. Rounds are done once a week and you are fairly independent because specialists rarely show up (they just have to evaluate new admitted patients and dissapear until the weekly round)

There ia no hierrarchy when it comes to residents. A PGY1 will have the same power and reaponsabilities as a PGY5 because everybody is doing their thing. You can seek them for advice but you are really autonomous and they can't boss you around. This changes somewhat in ahifts where there is always 1 senior and 1 new resident.

As long as you have the german language skill (B2-C1) the process to get your license and a apot as a resident is straight-forward.

Once a specialist you may work in the whole European Union. Some countries outaide won't recognize your training, such as the US

 

[Tangerine123]

You will be disappointed if that's your goal. America is where immigrants come to work their butts off for the chance to make lots of money so their kids can work for 30 hrs a week or less. American doctors work pretty hard. Your goals are better met in Germany. It's either money or time.

The idea that US Physicians make a lot of money can be falsely interpreted. Youhave to pay hefty sums elsewhere and at the end the same quality of life can be obtained in Europe for example. If you have a aon/daughter in the US and wants to follow your steps ans go into medical school... All of those loans again... Here in Germany it's just 170€ a semester at a top university, so that's 2,040€ to become a Physician.

 

[Doggeronie]

The idea that US Physicians make a lot of money can be falsely interpreted. Youhave to pay hefty sums elsewhere and at the end the same quality of life can be obtained in Europe for example. If you have a aon/daughter in the US and wants to follow your steps ans go into medical school... All of those loans again... Here in Germany it's just 170€ a semester at a top university, so that's 2,040€ to become a Physician.

You'll still come out on top in the US, since you basically go 200k into debt and make 200k a year for the rest of your life. But the opportunity cost is definitely high.

 

[Candidate2017]

The idea that US Physicians make a lot of money can be falsely interpreted. Youhave to pay hefty sums elsewhere and at the end the same quality of life can be obtained in Europe for example. If you have a aon/daughter in the US and wants to follow your steps ans go into medical school... All of those loans again... Here in Germany it's just 170€ a semester at a top university, so that's 2,040€ to become a Physician.

Aren't most physicians in the EU paid on a capitated basis? So the more patients you see, the less money you make? The U.S. is usually fee for service. The more patients you see, the more you make.

U.S. physician income almost doubles German income:

Medscape: Medscape Access

Most Europeans I've met (aside from UK) can't fathom working over 40 hrs a week, whereas most Americans including non-physicians usually work over 40 hrs. Some psychiatry residents in the U.S. routinely moonlight and work an extra job to make $100,000 while in training (80 total hrs a week).

 

[Tangerine123]

Aren't most physicians in the EU paid on a capitated basis? So the more patients you see, the less money you make? The U.S. is usually fee for service. The more patients you see, the more you make.

U.S. physician income almost doubles German income:

Medscape: Medscape Access

Most Europeans I've met (aside from UK) can't fathom working over 40 hrs a week, whereas most Americans including non-physicians usually work over 40 hrs. Some psychiatry residents in the U.S. routinely moonlight and work an extra job to make $100,000 while in training (80 total hrs a week).

Not sure about the private sector. But in the public sector there are country-wide set wages for Residents/Specialists/Head of Departments etc. They tend to be really good (for the country), starting from your PGY1

With how the good infrastructure, healthcare, social bennefits and educational system is here, I don't mind not earning near as much as Physicians in the US nor paying my taxes. The quality of life is really good. Good working hours, 30 days paid vacation, night shifts every 2-3 weeks (psych anyway), relaxed environment. 6 weeks paid sick leave that can be extended up to 72 weeks by social bennefits. Paid maternity leave (you can also have a 2 year mixed maternity/paternity leave while recieving a government allowance). Knowing that if I ever have kids they get access to top notch free education. I underwent surgery yesterday and there was no hassle, no waiting time, no co-payments

In all honesty, my plan after medical school was to do the USMLE as an IMG. However, due to shifting circumatances I ended up in Germany. And I can say that I would trade all of those 6 digit salaries in the US for the lifestyle and security that people enjoy here.

A coworker of mine (PGY3) just took a week off to go hiking at the Alps. That's 5/30 of her vacation days. I'm thinking about doing the same to go hiking in northern Italy. O, and vacation days accumulate untill around may of the next calendar year. So you could legally take 60 (working) days off if you didn't use any vacation time the year before. That's what? 3 months? And you can chain them with holidays. (Now, it will be hard for the hospital to allow it, but you legally can).

 

[Doggeronie]

Not sure about the private sector. But in the public sector there are country-wide set wages for Residents/Specialists/Head of Departments etc. They tend to be really good (for the country), starting from your PGY1

With how the good infrastructure, healthcare, social bennefits and educational system is here, I don't mind not earning near as much as Physicians in the US nor paying my taxes. The quality of life is really good. Good working hours, 30 days paid vacation, night shifts every 2-3 weeks (psych anyway), relaxed environment. 6 weeks paid sick leave that can be extended up to 72 weeks by social bennefits. Paid maternity leave (you can also have a 2 year mixed maternity/paternity leave while recieving a government allowance). Knowing that if I ever have kids they get access to top notch free education. I underwent surgery yesterday and there was no hassle, no waiting time, no co-payments

In all honesty, my plan after medical school was to do the USMLE as an IMG. However, due to shifting circumatances I ended up in Germany. And I can say that I would trade all of those 6 digit salaries in the US for the lifestyle and security that people enjoy here.

A coworker of mine (PGY3) just took a week off to go hiking at the Alps. That's 5/30 of her vacation days. I'm thinking about doing the same to go hiking in northern Italy. O, and vacation days accumulate untill around may of the next calendar year. So you could legally take 60 (working) days off if you didn't use any vacation time the year before. That's what? 3 months? And you can chain them with holidays. (Now, it will be hard for the hospital to allow it, but you legally can).

Sounds like that works for you, which is good. Many IMG's are not from western countries and do not have access to the standards of living that you do.
Despite that, the US still remains a very appealing spot for many, including individuals from other western countries. Even specialists from Canada migrate down to the states.