Wait a years and reapply to US or go to the carribeans

[Heavens Angel]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

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[deleted936470]

I'd rather wait 10 years and reapply than go to the carribeanz

 

[GreenDuck12]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

Given that MCAT score, I think you should honestly consider a different career path. I don't mean to be harsh. A 486 MCAT places you in the 10th percentile. The mean MCAT for accepted students is a 511, the 83rd percentile. Should you make the necessary improvement, school's will still see you initial score and some programs average the two scores together. The MCAT is only one exam, but you will encounter many more on your way toward becoming a board certified physician. With that outcome on the MCAT, I'm not sure you will fare well on those exams.

However, if you are interested in pursuing a medical career, I would recommend that you to take a look at Goro's guide for reinvention, pursuing an SMP, and applying to DO programs.

I would highly encourage you NOT to pursue the Carib route. SGU is a for profit entity that has a financial interest in separating you from your money while selling you on the idea of pursuing your dreams. Non-profit medical schools have an interest in getting you to graduation. US MD programs have a high completion rate and a high match rate. SGU has a fiduciary interest to generate money (from you) for its shareholders and not to act in your best interests. This is why the program is actively expanding to build another class of students. 1500 students start in each of their classes, yet only 1000 make it to graduation. That is a 33%+ attrition rate, which leaves students in that position without a degree and with a mountain of debt at high interest rates. For those lucky few that do make it to graduation, the match rates are abysmal. You cannot practice medicine in the US without post graduate training. Many of their students do not match through the traditional process, but through SOAP or unlisted transition year programs. Look through the forums and you will see a mountain of information about SGU and its problems.

 

[V5RED]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

Don't go Caribbean. Even at the top schools, your odds of going from matriculating to matching are around 50% at best. They advertise higher numbers, but those numbers exclude a lot of students from the denominator like people dismissed from the school, people who got zero interviews, etc.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Step 1 is set to convert to pass/fail by the time you’ll be taking it if you enter SGU this year. With a non-scored step 1, there will be almost nothing you can do to set yourself apart as a Caribbean grad in terms of matching. Best case scenario, if you happen to make it through, you’ll match into primary care. I hope you’re not interested at all in specializing.

If you don’t successfully make it through a Caribbean program to match (and like others said... that’s riding at about a 50% chance right now, and step 1 is still being scored) you will be in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt with no way to pay it back. I don’t know about you, but I would rather spend almost any amount of time improving my application for US MD/DO than spin that roulette wheel. That is a life ruining amount of debt.

Edit: spelling

 

[Goro]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

That smacking sound you hear is that of SGU salivating over the thought of yet another mark to prey upon. Your MCAT puts you in a major risk zone for failing out of med school and/or failing Boards.

Retake the MCAT and score above 500, and you're fine for nearly all DO schools. Do NOT retake until you are 100% ready. IF test taking anxiety isses are the problem, those can be fixed.

 

[Nugester]

Wait as long as possible to get that MCAT competitive.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

There is no way SGU accepted you with a 486 on the MCAT.

Regardless, you are not ready for meds school anywhere, given that score.
First, figure out why you got that score. Then get the books, make a schedule, treat it as a job, use all of the AAMC resources, and study! If you do poorly on the MCAT again, then medicine may not be the field for you.

 

[rdyotz]

SGU will accept anyone with a check that cashes. Take that as a warning. Once your check cashes, they won't care if you drop out or fail out.

If you want a medical degree, go to SGU. If you want to become a doctor within the US, retake the MCAT (only after you are showing a 20+ point increase for DO) and apply to US schools.

Edit: You also are not eligible for US federal loans at SGU.

 

[deleted480308]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

Don’t do it. You’ll just lose money and time

 

[Ready_2_Run]

I just matched from a non top 4 Caribbean School with a step 1 fail. But I will say If you got a chance to get in to a US school, exhaust your options because you'll end up with almost a guaranteed residency. Try the MCAT one more time, if it doesnt go well and you still ,want to take a risk and go to the Caribbean take it. But know it is a risk. Out of the 2 classes I knew the best about 15 people out of 60 matched. Lots dropped out, lots have stopped, some are still grinding.

I didn't even consider a US school because my undergrad GPA was horrible I never studied just showed up for exams somehow passed and graduated lol. By the time I realized I was screwed it was too late. If I had posted my story here after undergrad, + a step 1 fail I would have had so many people on this site telling me to stop and "medicine isn't for you". Maybe I got lucky, but going to the Caribbean isn't a death sentence like its made to seem on this site

 

[deleted859689]

I just matched from a non top 4 Caribbean School with a step 1 fail. But I will say If you got a chance to get in to a US school, exhaust your options because you'll end up with almost a guaranteed residency. Try the MCAT one more time, if it doesnt go well and you still ,want to take a risk and go to the Caribbean take it. But know it is a risk. Out of the 2 classes I knew the best about 15 people out of 60 matched. Lots dropped out, lots have stopped, some are still grinding.

I didn't even consider a US school because my undergrad GPA was horrible I never studied just showed up for exams somehow passed and graduated lol. By the time I realized I was screwed it was too late. If I had posted my story here after undergrad, + a step 1 fail I would have had so many people on this site telling me to stop and "medicine isn't for you". Maybe I got lucky, but going to the Caribbean isn't a death sentence like its made to seem on this site

And what was your MCAT score?

 

[Ready_2_Run]

And what was your MCAT score?

Didn't think it would be worth it to attempt it. Low GPA and I figured the only way to redeem myself and not waste time is go to a school where MCAT isn't required. Risky business but I knew that going in

 

[deleted859689]

Didn't think it would be worth it to attempt it. Low GPA and I figured the only way to redeem myself and not waste time is go to a school where MCAT isn't required. Risky business but I knew that going in

I have a friend that went to SGU and matched prelim surgery. She did not recommend the Caribbean whatsoever.

 

[V5RED]

I just matched from a non top 4 Caribbean School with a step 1 fail. But I will say If you got a chance to get in to a US school, exhaust your options because you'll end up with almost a guaranteed residency. Try the MCAT one more time, if it doesnt go well and you still ,want to take a risk and go to the Caribbean take it. But know it is a risk. Out of the 2 classes I knew the best about 15 people out of 60 matched. Lots dropped out, lots have stopped, some are still grinding.

I didn't even consider a US school because my undergrad GPA was horrible I never studied just showed up for exams somehow passed and graduated lol. By the time I realized I was screwed it was too late. If I had posted my story here after undergrad, + a step 1 fail I would have had so many people on this site telling me to stop and "medicine isn't for you". Maybe I got lucky, but going to the Caribbean isn't a death sentence like its made to seem on this site

And there are smokers who don't get cancer. Doesn't make it a good idea to smoke.

This is horrible advice. If the dude can't get a decent MCAT score, the odds of succeeding in the Caribbean, which were already low for the average matriculant, drop even farther. That is slouching toward 'going to a loan shark to buy lotto tickets' territory.

 

[Ready_2_Run]

And there are smokers who don't get cancer. Doesn't make it a good idea to smoke.

This is horrible advice. If the dude can't get a decent MCAT score, the odds of succeeding in the Caribbean, which were already low for the average matriculant, drop even farther. That is slouching toward 'going to a loan shark to buy lotto tickets' territory.

If I told you I failed step 1, would you have told me to stop? Would've probably said that loan shark stuff to me too right.

Im telling the OP that there is a risk, but if you want to trying become a doctor and you UNDERSTAND the risk then go for it. Not saying its the first option, and I said in my post to exhaust all options to go to school in the US because its better. But you want to just focus on things that fit your agenda lmao

 

[hamiltonnyc]

Im telling the OP that there is a risk, but if you want to trying become a doctor and you UNDERSTAND the risk then go for it.

I'm not sure if we can understand the risks anymore. There are a few trends I see. More new MD and DO schools are opening. From what I hear, not that many residencies are increasing their capacity. Step 1 is going P/F. I think these trends would make it harder for Caribbean schools. The past does not necessarily predict the future, and it definitely does not with changing conditions.

 

[V5RED]

If I told you I failed step 1, would you have told me to stop? Would've probably said that loan shark stuff to me too right.

Im telling the OP that there is a risk, but if you want to trying become a doctor and you UNDERSTAND the risk then go for it. Not saying its the first option, and I said in my post to exhaust all options to go to school in the US because its better. But you want to just focus on things that fit your agenda lmao

Just because you lucked out doesn't mean it was smart of you to go down that path. Do you think that everything is a good idea as long as there is not a 100% failure rate and at least a one in a billion shot at success?

It isn't an agenda. You are giving ****ty advice. You made an incredibly stupid series of decisions and lucked ass backwards into success. That doesn't mean people should emulate you.

 

[Ready_2_Run]

Just because you lucked out doesn't mean it was smart of you to go down that path. Do you think that everything is a good idea as long as there is not a 100% failure rate and at least a one in a billion shot at success?

It isn't an agenda. You are giving ****ty advice. You made an incredibly stupid series of decisions and lucked ass backwards into success. That doesn't mean people should emulate you.

I worked hard to make up for everything, you dont get lucky, you have to earn that. And if somebody goes there and works hard, they got a chance if thats what theyre looking for. Look at what im saying to the OP, TRY to get into a US school, if you dont get in, then go towards the Caribbean route with the understanding you might not make it. That is real advice. Not that you wont make it, but the chances are less. And I acknowledge that you just dont wanna read what doesnt match your viewpoint lol

 

[Ready_2_Run]

I'm not sure if we can understand the risks anymore. There are a few trends I see. More new MD and DO schools are opening. From what I hear, not that many residencies are increasing their capacity. Step 1 is going P/F. I think these trends would make it harder for Caribbean schools. The past does not necessarily predict the future, and it definitely does not with changing conditions.

It is going to be harder I agree, but things are never impossible. If the OP wants to try going to a Caribbean School, try after applying to all the MD/DO schools

 

[GreenDuck12]

If I told you I failed step 1, would you have told me to stop? Would've probably said that loan shark stuff to me too right.

Im telling the OP that there is a risk, but if you want to trying become a doctor and you UNDERSTAND the risk then go for it. Not saying its the first option, and I said in my post to exhaust all options to go to school in the US because its better. But you want to just focus on things that fit your agenda lmao

You are perfectly situated to help the OP understand the risks so let’s get into it:
1. How many of your classmates (%) made it to graduation? What % has to repeat classes/semesters? For those who did not, how are they faring now? How manageable is the debt load? When is the projected date in which loans will be discharged?
2. How does the quality of education compare to US programs? How much time do students spend working in lab? How many students are assigned per cadaver?
3. How did your clinical rotations work out? Were you in one location or did you move every few months?
4. What did the match process look like for you? What attitudes did you encounter from PDs when interviewing for positions? Were the programs you interviewed at heavily tilted towards IMGs or towards US graduates?

Pursuing a Caribbean school is not a *rational* decision. Full stop. It preys on your desire to achieve your dreams and to believe that you are the exception to the rule. It’s a great business model which is why SGU is increasing the number of seats/classes INSTEAD of addressing the inherent problems in their curriculum/ approach that leads to such poor outcomes. I would be much more encouraged if SGU decreased the number of seats and increased the number of folks who pass step 1 and match, not soap, but that isn’t the path they are pursuing. Future Caribbean students would be wise to recognize that with increased class sizes, a P/F step 1, and more DOs graduating each year, that their odds of successfully graduating and matching into residency will likely decrease.

 

[deleted1041468]

I just matched from a non top 4 Caribbean School with a step 1 fail. But I will say If you got a chance to get in to a US school, exhaust your options because you'll end up with almost a guaranteed residency. Try the MCAT one more time, if it doesnt go well and you still ,want to take a risk and go to the Caribbean take it. But know it is a risk. Out of the 2 classes I knew the best about 15 people out of 60 matched. Lots dropped out, lots have stopped, some are still grinding.

I didn't even consider a US school because my undergrad GPA was horrible I never studied just showed up for exams somehow passed and graduated lol. By the time I realized I was screwed it was too late. If I had posted my story here after undergrad, + a step 1 fail I would have had so many people on this site telling me to stop and "medicine isn't for you". Maybe I got lucky, but going to the Caribbean isn't a death sentence like its made to seem on this site

15/60 what is that. Hmm rough math 25 percent? I call that more than a death sentence when you have to pay back that tuition when you don’t match. Even if you do match. The one or two specialties you get will he usually in terrible locations. The OP should stay far away.

 

[Ready_2_Run]

You are perfectly situated to help the OP understand the risks so let’s get into it:
1. How many of your classmates (%) made it to graduation? What % has to repeat classes/semesters? For those who did not, how are they faring now? How manageable is the debt load? When is the projected date in which loans will be discharged?
2. How does the quality of education compare to US programs? How much time do students spend working in lab? How many students are assigned per cadaver?
3. How did your clinical rotations work out? Were you in one location or did you move every few months?
4. What did the match process look like for you? What attitudes did you encounter from PDs when interviewing for positions? Were the programs you interviewed at heavily tilted towards IMGs or towards US graduates?

Pursuing a Caribbean school is not a *rational* decision. Full stop. It preys on your desire to achieve your dreams and to believe that you are the exception to the rule. It’s a great business model which is why SGU is increasing the number of seats/classes INSTEAD of addressing the inherent problems in their curriculum/ approach that leads to such poor outcomes. I would be much more encouraged if SGU decreased the number of seats and increased the number of folks who pass step 1 and match, not soap, but that isn’t the path they are pursuing. Future Caribbean students would be wise to recognize that with increased class sizes, a P/F step 1, and more DOs graduating each year, that their odds of successfully graduating and matching into residency will likely decrease.

1 - About 35 or 36 people were in my class. From the jump when you get there you can see that half of them aren't gunna make it. Thats the crowd thats on the beach/partying every day. The other half about 18-20 of us, 8 of us matched so far, not great but definitely not horrible.
Loans - I went to probably the cheapest school, I had taken a few years in between undergrad and starting med school and had some money saved up. I owe about $24000. My wife had similar story shes at about $30000, and in her class 7/19 students have matched). But if you gotta do the loan all throughout school you'll be at around 100k.
For those who dont match, im not sure man. I had to be on my grind and I had my teammate, I just cared about her and her well-being. Didn't really keep in touch, but now I feel bad about it.
2 - Education isn't the best on the island, theres a few good teachers. But for the most part theyre regurgitating Kaplan lectures. Lab minimal, cadavers there were 4 for our class, so about 8/9 per but some students(the half I mentioned earlier) didn't wanna partake so it opened up for students who do actually care.
3 - Clinical rotations at my school were great. Everything was with one hospital system, all within 20 minutes of each other. We had some rotations with American students, and when I was rotating with them I realized there isn't much difference when it came down to clinical knowledge. One of the USMD students was great to work with, one of the smartest people I ever met and a great teacher. I think after I met him something clicked, just magically and things got much much better for me personally.
4 - For match, I applied to places that are known to take IMGs. If you go to the Caribbean you cant be applying to Med-Peds at only 5 programs(one guy in my class did that, then wondered why he didn't match). You gotta be real with yourself and your situation and go accordingly. PDs were positive, only had 1 one interviewer who wasn't really interested in me but thats fine. And I matched at a university program in a major city where nobody from my school has matched yet.

Im not saying that its the best option, FAR from it. But it is an option. And you guys are talking about a place like SGU, compared to where I went is wayyyy more legit you guys haven't even seen/heard/thought about where I went to LOL

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

Took the MCAT once and did terrible (486). Studying to take it again in June (it feels impossible) but got acceptance to SGU which allows me to start this August. I’ve applied to other US schools and did not get in anywhere which is not a surprise considering my MCAT score. Didn’t do too well in undergrad but did a post bacc and finished with a 3.7. Suggestions on my next step! Contemplating on whether or not I want to wait the extra year to see if I can get into a US school but idk if it’s worth the risk since there’s a possibility I won’t and may end up going to the Carribeans.

Honestly, this is from someone who was a good friend with someone who received a scholarship from SGU matched into EM in NY and her husband is doing surgery also from SGU in NY. It is not impossible to do well from SGU, but she didn't have a 486 equivalent when she went in; the school is not very well organized and if you think the mentoring might be subpar here, it is even less able there. Have you considered mid-level, dental (you can take the DAT to escape the bad MCAT score) or podiatry? If you have a good GPA and only the MCAT is low, try to do well on the DAT and go for a good dental school. Bottom of the class at a weaker DO school is going to be disadvantageous if you are not from the right location. As recently as 5 years ago, DO was a good deal with significant downside protection even for the weakest students (you can have your cake and eat it too). I can't in good conscience recommend it to weaker students knowing the struggles for residency ahead.

 

[deleted859689]

Honestly, this is from someone who was a good friend with someone who received a scholarship from SGU matched into EM in NY and her husband is doing surgery also from SGU in NY. It is not impossible to do well from SGU, but she didn't have a 486 equivalent when she went in; the school is not very well organized and if you think the mentoring might be subpar here, it is even less able there. Have you considered mid-level, dental (you can take the DAT to escape the bad MCAT score) or podiatry? If you have a good GPA and only the MCAT is low, try to do well on the DAT and go for a good dental school. Bottom of the class at a weaker DO school is going to be disadvantageous if you are not from the right location. As recently as 5 years ago, DO was a good deal with significant downside protection even for the weakest students (you can have your cake and eat it too). I can't in good conscience recommend it to weaker students knowing the struggles for residency ahead.

DO schools are still relatively competitive. No DO school is going to take someone with a 486 MCAT who isn't a God in other metrics. I would recommend OP apply to DO schools if they can get their MCAT over 500 instead of going to the Caribbean. Applying to PA school or dental school is also not a cake walk. To score a 486, I would assume that OPs reasoning skills aren't that strong either. Half the questions on the MCAT you can narrow down to 50/50 if you can apply concepts and think, even if you forget what equation you are supposed to use.

DOs had a 91% match rate into residency program before SOAP/scramble. If OP can get into a decent DO school that is not brand new, I'm sure they will be fine.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

DO schools are still relatively competitive. No DO school is going to take someone with a 486 MCAT who isn't a God in other metrics. I would recommend OP apply to DO schools if they can get their MCAT over 500 instead of going to the Caribbean. Applying to PA school or dental school is also not a cake walk. To score a 486, I would assume that OPs reasoning skills aren't that strong either. Half the questions on the MCAT you can narrow down to 50/50 if you can apply concepts and think, even if you forget what equation you are supposed to use.

DOs had a 91% match rate into residency program before SOAP/scramble. If OP can get into a decent DO school that is not brand new, I'm sure they will be fine.

You don't know what you don't know. Do you really believe that the changes concerning residency and Step 1 were random or organic? Do you really believe the people who made these once in a decade change believe it will have no consequences for their own graduates? Please give them more credit.

He is obviously retaking the MCAT if he is waiting a year (a 20 pt improvement would help). The 91% match is THIS year with Step 1 scored. When he graduates in 2025, there will be no Step 1 score and a lot of DO supply coming in online and the new MD schools will be fully matured (Accredited U.S. Programs | LCME). He will also facing six figures of debt. There is no way the match rate will be 91% before SOAP in 4 years absent federal policy changes for residency (residency spots can still go up even without federal support but it will never be comfortable). If you look at this year's matched list (IMG went up). This is the opposite of the arguments that everyone made in February about how IMG will be excluded. It is clear that the weaker US students are being punished at residency. It is unethical to recommend the DO path to weaker students. My friend (not even a weak student went he was accepted) just graduated this year from a good DO school and was unable to secure a match. I never want to wish that on any student.

If he has a good GPA, he can get away with PA or dental school as they are not as selective. I wouldn't even cross nursing off the list especially if he can do anesthesiology (I have a friend doing that too). He will probably do better in those as well.

 

[deleted480308]

1 - About 35 or 36 people were in my class. From the jump when you get there you can see that half of them aren't gunna make it. Thats the crowd thats on the beach/partying every day. The other half about 18-20 of us, 8 of us matched so far, not great but definitely not horrible.
Loans - I went to probably the cheapest school, I had taken a few years in between undergrad and starting med school and had some money saved up. I owe about $24000. My wife had similar story shes at about $30000, and in her class 7/19 students have matched). But if you gotta do the loan all throughout school you'll be at around 100k.
For those who dont match, im not sure man. I had to be on my grind and I had my teammate, I just cared about her and her well-being. Didn't really keep in touch, but now I feel bad about it.
2 - Education isn't the best on the island, theres a few good teachers. But for the most part theyre regurgitating Kaplan lectures. Lab minimal, cadavers there were 4 for our class, so about 8/9 per but some students(the half I mentioned earlier) didn't wanna partake so it opened up for students who do actually care.
3 - Clinical rotations at my school were great. Everything was with one hospital system, all within 20 minutes of each other. We had some rotations with American students, and when I was rotating with them I realized there isn't much difference when it came down to clinical knowledge. One of the USMD students was great to work with, one of the smartest people I ever met and a great teacher. I think after I met him something clicked, just magically and things got much much better for me personally.
4 - For match, I applied to places that are known to take IMGs. If you go to the Caribbean you cant be applying to Med-Peds at only 5 programs(one guy in my class did that, then wondered why he didn't match). You gotta be real with yourself and your situation and go accordingly. PDs were positive, only had 1 one interviewer who wasn't really interested in me but thats fine. And I matched at a university program in a major city where nobody from my school has matched yet.

Im not saying that its the best option, FAR from it. But it is an option. And you guys are talking about a place like SGU, compared to where I went is wayyyy more legit you guys haven't even seen/heard/thought about where I went to LOL

How is 8 of 30 not horrible?

 

[deleted859689]

You don't know what you don't know

it’s funny you use this statement then go on to speculate how DO match rates will decrease by 2025. You KNOW that now do you? Of course it’s possible. Even here on SDN there was doom and gloom when AOA and ACGME merged and everyone was saying how DOs would get pushed out. Match rate increased post-merger.

Also no need to get so heated. No DO school is going accept a student they think will fail. I feel sorry for your friend, but that just means they didn’t play their cards right. Sucks to be part of the 9% who didn’t match.

Once again, compared to the Caribbean, I would recommend applying to DO schools. We can agree to disagree. You also clearly do not know how competitive PA school is. There’s a PA forum out there - go take a look at what it takes to be a PA. We all have our opinions and experiences. I respect your opinion and hopefully you can do the same. Jeez man, get outside.

 

[Ready_2_Run]

How is 8 of 30 not horrible?

the 36 includes the people you know aren't taking it seriously though. Like I said, half the class. 8/20 just this year, more will apply next year and im few more will match. But you have to remember this is coming from possibly the ****tiest of the Caribbean schools.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

it’s funny you use this statement then go on to speculate how DO match rates will decrease by 2025. You KNOW that now do you? Of course it’s possible. Even here on SDN there was doom and gloom when AOA and ACGME merged and everyone was saying how DOs would get pushed out. Match rate increased post-merger.

Also no need to get so heated. No DO school is going accept a student they think will fail. I feel sorry for your friend, but that just means they didn’t play their cards right. Sucks to be part of the 9% who didn’t match.

Once again, compared to the Caribbean, I would recommend applying to DO schools. We can agree to disagree. You also clearly do not know how competitive PA school is. There’s a PA forum out there - go take a look at what it takes to be a PA. We all have our opinions and experiences. I respect your opinion and hopefully you can do the same. Jeez man, get outside.

Let's agree to disagree. The OP is a non-trad; I am just trying to put him in the best position possible because we have less time and fewer resources to bounce back from a mistake. Sorry if it came across wrong. The match rate only went up because there are no more DO match. FYI, my friend's MCAT was closer to MD than DO. He also did a successful SMP; he was originally aiming only for MD schools. He only applied to two DO schools (both top tier) and was accepted to 1.

I published actual medical research with a person who is a PA now. I know her stats and remember when she told me that she would no longer pursue medicine because she was interested in becoming a mother in the future and didn't want to grind away her years in med school and residency. She had much better stats than me and I wish that I was more open minded when I was younger. If he has a strong GPA and willing to shadow PAs, he can definitely make it into PA school.

The only mistake that I know he made for certain was not taking AAMC practice exams before taking the real thing.

 

[The REAL Doc McStuffins]

Given that MCAT score, I think you should honestly consider a different career path. I don't mean to be harsh. A 486 MCAT places you in the 10th percentile. The mean MCAT for accepted students is a 511, the 83rd percentile. Should you make the necessary improvement, school's will still see you initial score and some programs average the two scores together. The MCAT is only one exam, but you will encounter many more on your way toward becoming a board certified physician. With that outcome on the MCAT, I'm not sure you will fare well on those exams.

However, if you are interested in pursuing a medical career, I would recommend that you to take a look at Goro's guide for reinvention, pursuing an SMP, and applying to DO programs.

I would highly encourage you NOT to pursue the Carib route. SGU is a for profit entity that has a financial interest in separating you from your money while selling you on the idea of pursuing your dreams. Non-profit medical schools have an interest in getting you to graduation. US MD programs have a high completion rate and a high match rate. SGU has a fiduciary interest to generate money (from you) for its shareholders and not to act in your best interests. This is why the program is actively expanding to build another class of students. 1500 students start in each of their classes, yet only 1000 make it to graduation. That is a 33%+ attrition rate, which leaves students in that position without a degree and with a mountain of debt at high interest rates. For those lucky few that do make it to graduation, the match rates are abysmal. You cannot practice medicine in the US without post graduate training. Many of their students do not match through the traditional process, but through SOAP or unlisted transition year programs. Look through the forums and you will see a mountain of information about SGU and its problems.

I completely disagree. Just because they didn’t do well on the MCAT the first time doesn’t mean anything... they can study hard and take it again when they’re ready. No need to tell someone to change career plans.

 

[GreenDuck12]

the 36 includes the people you know aren't taking it seriously though. Like I said, half the class. 8/20 just this year, more will apply next year and im few more will match. But you have to remember this is coming from possibly the ****tiest of the Caribbean schools.

I appreciate the response that you wrote above. I just want to point out that it’s 8/36 that complete and match. That’s pretty rough. I know Caribs like to talk about the attrition rate to show that the course of study was rigorous and that it helps those who make it prove their worth. In my view, all it really proves is that 28 students shouldn’t have started medical school in the first place. I’m guessing the 12 that made it to graduation and didn’t match believe they would be the exception to the rule. I’m also guessing the 16 or so that dropped or were removed really did believe they were serious. A 22% success rate to risk that amount of debt is naive at best. How the program can keep their accreditation and access to federal loans is beyond me.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I completely disagree. Just because they didn’t do well on the MCAT the first time doesn’t mean anything... they can study hard and take it again when they’re ready. No need to tell someone to change career plans.

I mean, it does mean something. All schools receive all mcat attempts. A 10% score on an exam that is an excellent predictor or pass rates for licensure is pretty alarming. I think it is only rationale to consider other options. But as I noted in my post the OP has options about things he/she can do to continue to pursue a medical career.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

I mean, it does mean something. All schools receive all mcat attempts. A 10% score on an exam that is an excellent predictor or pass rates for licensure is pretty alarming. I think it is only rationale to consider other options. But as I noted in my post the OP has options about things he/she can do to continue to pursue a medical career.

This just means he made a terrible mistake of not taking practice AAMC exams before the real thing. Not every MD school average attempts (AAMC research; not words out of my mouth).

 

[Nugester]

This just means he made a terrible mistake of not taking practice AAMC exams before the real thing. Not every MD school average attempts (AAMC research; not words out of my mouth).

This. As long as they put in the work and do much better, it's not impossible to be admitted with a ****ty first MCAT score. Hell, over ten years ago, I was naive/unprepared and took the MCAT. I got a 22 and thought my medical school aspirations were over. Taking advice from SDN and reddit, I reinvented myself and it sure paid off this cycle. However, it is a smart thing to keep your options open because not all stories end like this.

 

[GreenDuck12]

This just means he made a terrible mistake of not taking practice AAMC exams before the real thing. Not every MD school average attempts (AAMC research; not words out of my mouth).

You are correct that not every school averages the scores. However, the AAMC recommends treating retakes by placing an applicant's true score in between the two, something similar to averaging. Remember, the mean MCAT for MD is a 511

Since you are interested in using AAMC data, lets take a look. AAMC does not recommend applicants retake the exam because data shows that improvement is quite limited (data here). Most retakes are +/- 2 points of the original score, which in this case is not sufficient. The OP in this case would need a *significant* improvement. At minimum a 40% increase to get to the 500 range. The data shows that about 6% of takers in the OP's score range improved their score by 10 points or higher. A 10 point score increase would be huge(!) but would still place the OP below the 50th percentile (496) and below the score that most consider to be competitive for DO programs, let alone MD.

I don't know anything about the OPs application, nor have I seen a response from them. I did not say the OP should NOT pursue a career in medicine but that the OP would be wise to consider another career path. After that MCAT score, I do think it is necessary to consider what one is up against in terms of licensure exams and the high stakes pressure they induce. If the OP decides to forge ahead with becoming a doctor, I will cheer him/her on, which is why I recommended looking into the guide for reinvention.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

You are correct that not every school averages the score. However, the AAMC recommends treating retakes by placing an applicant's true score in between the two, something similar to averaging. Remember, the mean MCAT for MD is a 511

Since you are interested in using AAMC data, lets take a look. AAMC does not recommend applicants retake the exam because data shows that improvement is quite limited (data here). Most retakes are +/- 2 points of the original score, which in this case is not sufficient. The OP in this case would need a *significant* improvement. At minimum a 40% increase to get to the 500 range. The data shows that about 6% of takers in the OP's score range improved their score by 10 points or higher. A 10 point score increase would be huge(!) but would still place the OP below the 50th percentile (496) and below the score that most consider to be competitive for DO programs, let alone MD.

I don't know anything about the OPs application, nor have I seen a response from them. I did not say the OP should NOT pursue a career in medicine but that the OP would be wise to consider another career path. After that MCAT score, I do think it is necessary to consider what one is up against in terms of licensure exams and the high stakes pressure they induce. If the OP decides to forge ahead with becoming a doctor, I will cheer him/her on, which is why I recommended looking into the guide for reinvention.

I read the same exact report from AAMC that you mentioned (I was considering getting a second score at one point), and I would agree with you if he was a normal case. I do not know if the report is applicable to his particular case because his score is so low that +/- 2 points generalization might not be valid. (I honestly believed that he did not study using AAMC materials or he might have not taken any AAMC exams). It is not impossible to get to a 506 or 511 if you maintain the discipline. As long as he does not have mental health issues (if he does, it would have to be solved first), it is definitely possible. If he is not short on money, he can even take the test to void it and know the actual conditions of the test center for a real exam.

I know from my own case that I never fully digested the AAMC materials. I can see how his scores can drastically improve if he knew the logic of their questions. There are clear patterns in the questions that I did not recognize until after my first scored attempt. I understand your concern, but you will also wish at some point in your own future career either at residency or fellowship (if you choose to specialize) that your attending chooses to invest in you AFTER setbacks in your own career that happens to everyone. Of course there is a chance that he might not improve, but lets see the outcome first before throwing people under the bus.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I read the same exact report from AAMC that you mentioned (I was considering getting a second score at one point), and I would agree with you if he was a normal case. I do not know if the report is applicable to his particular case because his score is so low that +/- 2 points generalization might not be valid. (I honestly believed that he did not study using AAMC materials or he might have not taken any AAMC exams). It is not impossible to get to a 506 or 511 if you maintain the discipline. As long as he does not have mental health issues (if he does, it would have to be solved first), it is definitely possible. If he is not short on money, he can even take the test to void it and know the actual conditions of the test center for a real exam.

I know from my own case that I never fully digested the AAMC materials. I can see how his scores can drastically improve if he knew the logic of their questions. There are clear patterns in the questions that I did not recognize until after my first scored attempt. I understand your concern, but you will also wish at some point in your own future career either at residency or fellowship (if you choose to specialize) that your attending chooses to invest in you AFTER setbacks in your own career that happens to everyone. Of course there is a chance that he might not improve, but lets see the outcome first before throwing people under the bus.

It seems like the conversation has shifted and you’re projecting things that have not been indicated in the OP’s post. I’ll leave the conversation as is.

OP, I wish you the best of luck. I encourage you to consider all of your options, including reinvention, before enrolling at SGU.

 

[Splenda88]

Retake the MCAT when you are consistently getting 500+ practice exams. 498+ should get you into one of the newer DO schools.

 

[Splenda88]

1 - About 35 or 36 people were in my class. From the jump when you get there you can see that half of them aren't gunna make it. Thats the crowd thats on the beach/partying every day. The other half about 18-20 of us, 8 of us matched so far, not great but definitely not horrible.
Loans - I went to probably the cheapest school, I had taken a few years in between undergrad and starting med school and had some money saved up. I owe about $24000. My wife had similar story shes at about $30000, and in her class 7/19 students have matched). But if you gotta do the loan all throughout school you'll be at around 100k.
For those who dont match, im not sure man. I had to be on my grind and I had my teammate, I just cared about her and her well-being. Didn't really keep in touch, but now I feel bad about it.
2 - Education isn't the best on the island, theres a few good teachers. But for the most part theyre regurgitating Kaplan lectures. Lab minimal, cadavers there were 4 for our class, so about 8/9 per but some students(the half I mentioned earlier) didn't wanna partake so it opened up for students who do actually care.
3 - Clinical rotations at my school were great. Everything was with one hospital system, all within 20 minutes of each other. We had some rotations with American students, and when I was rotating with them I realized there isn't much difference when it came down to clinical knowledge. One of the USMD students was great to work with, one of the smartest people I ever met and a great teacher. I think after I met him something clicked, just magically and things got much much better for me personally.
4 - For match, I applied to places that are known to take IMGs. If you go to the Caribbean you cant be applying to Med-Peds at only 5 programs(one guy in my class did that, then wondered why he didn't match). You gotta be real with yourself and your situation and go accordingly. PDs were positive, only had 1 one interviewer who wasn't really interested in me but thats fine. And I matched at a university program in a major city where nobody from my school has matched yet.

Im not saying that its the best option, FAR from it. But it is an option. And you guys are talking about a place like SGU, compared to where I went is wayyyy more legit you guys haven't even seen/heard/thought about where I went to LOL

Congrats!

You have won the lottery in terms how low your student debt is.... Which specialty did you match into? How many programs did you apply to?

 

[zNoodlez]

486 indicates a severe lack in basic science knowledge. Study seriously this time and retake. Please do not go Caribbean.

 

[Trumpee]

You don't know what you don't know. Do you really believe that the changes concerning residency and Step 1 were random or organic? Do you really believe the people who made these once in a decade change believe it will have no consequences for their own graduates? Please give them more credit.

He is obviously retaking the MCAT if he is waiting a year (a 20 pt improvement would help). The 91% match is THIS year with Step 1 scored. When he graduates in 2025, there will be no Step 1 score and a lot of DO supply coming in online and the new MD schools will be fully matured (Accredited U.S. Programs | LCME). He will also facing six figures of debt. There is no way the match rate will be 91% before SOAP in 4 years absent federal policy changes for residency (residency spots can still go up even without federal support but it will never be comfortable). If you look at this year's matched list (IMG went up). This is the opposite of the arguments that everyone made in February about how IMG will be excluded. It is clear that the weaker US students are being punished at residency. It is unethical to recommend the DO path to weaker students. My friend (not even a weak student went he was accepted) just graduated this year from a good DO school and was unable to secure a match. I never want to wish that on any student.

If he has a good GPA, he can get away with PA or dental school as they are not as selective. I wouldn't even cross nursing off the list especially if he can do anesthesiology (I have a friend doing that too). He will probably do better in those as well.

IMG number matched went up because they are filling the previously AOA vacancies now that the merger is completed.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

IMG number matched went up because they are filling the previously AOA vacancies now that the merger is completed.

No kidding. Tell that to my friend who is graduating this year with no residency (he would have been eligible for AOA residency if there was no merger). Six figures of debt with 6% interest per year and hoping to do an externship and apply again next cycle if no SOAP spot. Keep in mind 9% of DO graduates did not match anywhere this cycle. We will know if this is an abnormality or a short-term trend next year.

A lot of people who can't face reality on this board is going to be in a rude shocking at match and residency when anything can happen and the probability of what happens goes up or down depend on who you are. IMG will probably continue to do well until 2023 (Step I phase out). What happens in 2024 will be untested and I won't be bold enough to predict. (The only thing that I know for certain will be it will be harder if no drastic increase in federal funding because people can't stop opening schools or expand classes. MD schools who started with 40-45 people will be going to 100; those people have to end up somewhere).

 

[Trumpee]

No kidding. Tell that to my friend who is graduating this year with no residency (he would have been eligible for AOA residency if there was no merger). Six figures of debt with 6% interest per year and hoping to do an externship and apply again next cycle if no SOAP spot. Keep in mind 9% of DO graduates did not match anywhere this cycle. We will know if this is an abnormality or a short-term trend next year.

A lot of people who can't face reality on this board is going to be in a rude shocking at match and residency when anything can happen and the probability of what happens goes up or down depend on who you are. IMG will probably continue to do well until 2023 (Step I phase out). What happens in 2024 will be untested and I won't be bold enough to predict. (The only thing that I know for certain will be it will be harder if no drastic increase in federal funding because people can't stop opening schools or expand classes. MD schools who started with 40-45 people will be going to 100; those people have to end up somewhere).

What was your friend trying to match into?

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

What was your friend trying to match into?

No idea. But, he repeated a year and I presumed that he wasn't going crazy for competitive programs. He had a 29 on the old MCAT with a successful SMP and his brother is an MD and faculty/specialist so he isn't bottom of the barrel.

 

[Trumpee]

No idea. But, he repeated a year and I presumed that he wasn't going crazy for competitive programs. He had a 29 on the old MCAT with a successful SMP and his brother is an MD and faculty/specialist so he isn't bottom of the barrel.

MD had 94% matched this year so the sky isn’t falling down on DOs imo.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

MD had 94% matched this year so the sky isn’t falling down on DOs imo.

I am not going to argue because it is a waste of time.

But, the post you mentioned is with Step 1 being scored. What is going to happen in 2024 or afterwards? Do you think with a residency shortage; these administrative changes are spur of the moment? Do you honestly believe that the people who made these changes did not anticipate trends moving forward for their own graduates? Just food for thought.

 

[Whysoez]

I am not going to argue because it is a waste of time.

But, the post you mentioned is with Step 1 being scored. What is going to happen in 2024 or afterwards? Do you think with a residency shortage; these administrative changes are spur of the moment? Do you honestly believe that the people who made these changes did not anticipate trends moving forward for their own graduates? Just food for thought.

The general consensus is the throne will be passed down to Step 2 CK.

 

[ApplicantPerson88]

The general consensus is the throne will be passed down to Step 2 CK.

You are right, but I am not convinced that they will keep this scored for the long-term. Also, the lateness of the score prevents any ability to plan. More importantly, no more second chances if you did poorly on Step 1, but did better in Step 2.

 

[Whysoez]

You are right, but I am not convinced that they will keep this scored for the long-term. Also, the lateness of the score prevents any ability to plan.

Too many uncertainties, but one thing I am certain of is things will get harder every year, so if you want to do this then jump onboard as soon as you can for US MD and DO. Going Caribbean is suicidal.