Wait or Apply? Advice Needed.

[MDR2024]

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Hi all.

I need advice as I navigate the pre-med cycle. I am an international student (Canadian) who did their Bachelors and Masters at a T30 program in the United States.

I knew going into my Bachelors that I wanted to go to medical school and pursue my MD. Unfortunately, due to some personal and academic reasons, I have had to delay my application (for four years now since graduation from my Bachelors). I was able to do my Masters right after my Bachelors, and am now working. I had hoped to have applied this cycle (2024; matriculating 2025), but I haven’t yet because I still need to take my MCAT.

The MCAT has been one of my more tangible barriers throughout this process. As an international student, I've been told that my chances of gaining entry to a USMD program are lower compared to domestic students. I felt the pressure to excel academically and in my extracurricular activities to have any chance of being accepted. Unfortunately, I haven't entirely fulfilled those expectations. In my Bachelors I had a 3.66 science and cumulative GPA. I did better in my Masters, but it isn’t a MS or one of those Masters degrees that might look more favorably for ADCOMs.

My extracurriculars are definitely stronger. I am able to do things that I truly am passionate about and hope to highlight these experiences in my application.

Since my GPA isn’t the strongest, I’ve put it in my head that I need a great MCAT. And as a perfectionist, I keep delaying my MCAT because I haven’t been able to prepare in a way that has made me feel ready to take it and get the score that I want. Well. It’s happened again with me scheduled for the last MCAT date this cycle (Sept 14) and again contemplating if I should just push my exam/cycle.

But the thing is, I don’t know if it’s even worth it anymore. Given my GPA, do I even have a shot at a US MD?

TLDR: International student (below average GPA though with meaningful/strong extracurricular experience) who is approaching their fourth gap year needs to know if they should wait to apply the next cycle for USMD or just apply for this cycle and hope for a USDO acceptance.

 

[AJS59]

Hi all.

I need advice as I navigate the pre-med cycle. I am an international student (Canadian) who did their Bachelors and Masters at a T30 program in the United States.

I knew going into my Bachelors that I wanted to go to medical school and pursue my MD. Unfortunately, due to some personal and academic reasons, I have had to delay my application (for four years now since graduation from my Bachelors). I was able to do my Masters right after my Bachelors, and am now working. I had hoped to have applied this cycle (2024; matriculating 2025), but I haven’t yet because I still need to take my MCAT.

The MCAT has been one of my more tangible barriers throughout this process. As an international student, I've been told that my chances of gaining entry to a USMD program are lower compared to domestic students. I felt the pressure to excel academically and in my extracurricular activities to have any chance of being accepted. Unfortunately, I haven't entirely fulfilled those expectations. In my Bachelors I had a 3.66 science and cumulative GPA. I did better in my Masters, but it isn’t a MS or one of those Masters degrees that might look more favorably for ADCOMs.

My extracurriculars are definitely stronger. I am able to do things that I truly am passionate about and hope to highlight these experiences in my application.

Since my GPA isn’t the strongest, I’ve put it in my head that I need a great MCAT. And as a perfectionist, I keep delaying my MCAT because I haven’t been able to prepare in a way that has made me feel ready to take it and get the score that I want. Well. It’s happened again with me scheduled for the last MCAT date this cycle (Sept 14) and again contemplating if I should just push my exam/cycle.

But the thing is, I don’t know if it’s even worth it anymore. Given my GPA, do I even have a shot at a US MD?

TLDR: International student (below average GPA though with meaningful/strong extracurricular experience) who is approaching their fourth gap year needs to know if they should wait to apply the next cycle for USMD or just apply for this cycle and hope for a USDO acceptance.

When you say that your masters isn't one that would be looked upon favorably, what is it exactly? And what else have you been doing in the 4 years since graduating undergrad?

A 3.66 science and cumulative GPA isn't terrible overall and shouldn't shut the door on MD, but as an international student you'll always be facing some uphill odds. We'd need to know more though about your extracurriculars before we could assess the strength of your application.

Finally, with regards to MCAT: for medical school (MD and DO) there is always one golden rule - don't rush this process. Sept. 14 is 2 weeks away, which means scores release Oct. 1 - way too late for MD, maybe okay for DO if you can put everything else together quickly.

My personal recommendation would be as follows:
1. Get some practice MCATs under your belt. If you're not scoring where you want to, which for USMD as an international is probably at least a 515, I'd punt to January and take it then.
2. Continue whatever activities it is you're doing
3. Once you have an MCAT score in hand, whenever that may be, post a WAMC on here so we can assess the strength of your application

 

[MDR2024]

When you say that your masters isn't one that would be looked upon favorably, what is it exactly? And what else have you been doing in the 4 years since graduating undergrad?

A 3.66 science and cumulative GPA isn't terrible overall and shouldn't shut the door on MD, but as an international student you'll always be facing some uphill odds. We'd need to know more though about your extracurriculars before we could assess the strength of your application.

Finally, with regards to MCAT: for medical school (MD and DO) there is always one golden rule - don't rush this process. Sept. 14 is 2 weeks away, which means scores release Oct. 1 - way too late for MD, maybe okay for DO if you can put everything else together quickly.

My personal recommendation would be as follows:
1. Get some practice MCATs under your belt. If you're not scoring where you want to, which for USMD as an international is probably at least a 515, I'd punt to January and take it then.
2. Continue whatever activities it is you're doing
3. Once you have an MCAT score in hand, whenever that may be, post a WAMC on here so we can assess the strength of your application

Thank you, this is very helpful.

To give a little more information, I did my Masters in Public Health (Epidemiology) for 2 of those years. During the remainder of the years I’ve been working at a nonprofit organization. I also have a strong background in teaching, specifically STEM courses.

Your advice makes sense. I know I should prioritize taking the MCAT when I can do my best but I am just disappointed that I’ve set myself up to take another gap year. I am not sure if that will be worth it in the long run.

 

[AJS59]

Thank you, this is very helpful.

To give a little more information, I did my Masters in Public Health (Epidemiology) for 2 of those years. During the remainder of the years I’ve been working at a nonprofit organization. I also have a strong background in teaching, specifically STEM courses.

Your advice makes sense. I know I should prioritize taking the MCAT when I can do my best but I am just disappointed that I’ve set myself up to take another gap year. I am not sure if that will be worth it in the long run.

Much, much better to take your time (and the extra gap year) rather than rush an MCAT. The MCAT is an exam you want to take once and only once. If you don't think you can get the score you need on the 14th, then take the time before you take it (and as such, apply next cycle).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I would wait until next cycle to give yourself time to solicit feedback from admissions teams about any areas that need to be addressed. The extra time should also help you prepare for your MCAT exam properly. Sign up for virtual recruitment fairs and plan on some campus visits at schools closest to you.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hi all.

I need advice as I navigate the pre-med cycle. I am an international student (Canadian) who did their Bachelors and Masters at a T30 program in the United States.

I knew going into my Bachelors that I wanted to go to medical school and pursue my MD. Unfortunately, due to some personal and academic reasons, I have had to delay my application (for four years now since graduation from my Bachelors). I was able to do my Masters right after my Bachelors, and am now working. I had hoped to have applied this cycle (2024; matriculating 2025), but I haven’t yet because I still need to take my MCAT.

The MCAT has been one of my more tangible barriers throughout this process. As an international student, I've been told that my chances of gaining entry to a USMD program are lower compared to domestic students. I felt the pressure to excel academically and in my extracurricular activities to have any chance of being accepted. Unfortunately, I haven't entirely fulfilled those expectations. In my Bachelors I had a 3.66 science and cumulative GPA. I did better in my Masters, but it isn’t a MS or one of those Masters degrees that might look more favorably for ADCOMs.

My extracurriculars are definitely stronger. I am able to do things that I truly am passionate about and hope to highlight these experiences in my application.

Since my GPA isn’t the strongest, I’ve put it in my head that I need a great MCAT. And as a perfectionist, I keep delaying my MCAT because I haven’t been able to prepare in a way that has made me feel ready to take it and get the score that I want. Well. It’s happened again with me scheduled for the last MCAT date this cycle (Sept 14) and again contemplating if I should just push my exam/cycle.

But the thing is, I don’t know if it’s even worth it anymore. Given my GPA, do I even have a shot at a US MD?

TLDR: International student (below average GPA though with meaningful/strong extracurricular experience) who is approaching their fourth gap year needs to know if they should wait to apply the next cycle for USMD or just apply for this cycle and hope for a USDO acceptance.

I agree with those who say "wait" and focus on the MCAT at this point in time.

However, you say you're a perfectionist. What MCAT are you aiming for? There is a difference between a "great" MCAT and an admissible MCAT. If you're unable to achieve the former on practice tests, have you earned the latter? When the answer is yes, you're probably ready to take the MCAT.

If there was an upward trend to your GPA or if at least there was no downward trend, your 3.66 is an admissible GPA at many med schools. The MCAT is important to be sure, but if you have unrealistic expectations, you may also have undesirable outcomes. Be realistic.

I'm a big believer in the art of the possible.

 

[MDR2024]

Thank you all so much.
I think I am gonna take your advice and wait to be more successful on my MCAT.

Would you have any advice for what an admissible MCAT might be for someone like me (international student with 3.66 and U-shaped trend in G.P.A.) applying to a USMD and USDO?

I definitely have been struggling with having a clear, but realistic, goal for the MCAT. I think it might be helpful for me to know when I am ready to take the exam. Also I know that my being admissible is based on a bunch of other factors, so absolutely understand that this score isn’t absolute - but just for the sake of my own process.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Thank you all so much.
I think I am gonna take your advice and wait to be more successful on my MCAT.

Would you have any advice for what an admissible MCAT might be for someone like me (international student with 3.66 and U-shaped trend in G.P.A.) applying to a USMD and USDO?

I definitely have been struggling with having a clear, but realistic, goal for the MCAT. I think it might be helpful for me to know when I am ready to take the exam. Also I know that my being admissible is based on a bunch of other factors, so absolutely understand that this score isn’t absolute - but just for the sake of my own process.

You're most welcome. This table from the AAMC has a row showing MCAT scores and GPAs for matriculants to U.S. MD programs and will prove helpful to you in giving you an overall sense of what is admissible and not admissible Furthermore there is a row that breaks out "Legal Residence not in the U.S." The average total MCAT for non-citizen matriculants is 514.2 and the average GPA is 3.81. That would tell me that you want 514 or 515 to be a realistic goal..
.
And then there are also DO programs where the average MCAT is lower (but statistics are less available.) For all matriculants in 2022 to DO schools the average total MCAT was 504.77 and the average GPA was 3.53, but I couldn't find a breakdown by legal residency. Nonetheless, your GPA is competitive there and a competitive MCAT would be much lower even if somewhat higher than the average MCAT -- maybe a 508-510.

How were your grades in your MS program? I realize that's not the same as undergrad courses or a postbac, but schools will look at them also. Was the program an MSTP or was it a regular MS?

Best,
Linda

 

[MDR2024]

You're most welcome. This table from the AAMC has a row showing MCAT scores and GPAs for matriculants to U.S. MD programs and will prove helpful to you in giving you an overall sense of what is admissible and not admissible Furthermore there is a row that breaks out "Legal Residence not in the U.S." The average total MCAT for non-citizen matriculants is 514.2 and the average GPA is 3.81. That would tell me that you want 514 or 515 to be a realistic goal..
.
And then there are also DO programs where the average MCAT is lower (but statistics are less available.) For all matriculants in 2022 to DO schools the average total MCAT was 504.77 and the average GPA was 3.53, but I couldn't find a breakdown by legal residency. Nonetheless, your GPA is competitive there and a competitive MCAT would be much lower even if somewhat higher than the average MCAT -- maybe a 508-510.

How were your grades in your MS program? I realize that's not the same as undergrad courses or a postbac, but schools will look at them also. Was the program an MSTP or was it a regular MS?

Best,
Linda

Thank you, this is helpful!

I did a Masters in Public Health, in Epidemiology, so a little more STEM focused but not necessarily a MS. My grades were okay, with a cumulative GPA above a 3.8. I didn't think it would be very impactful on my application grades/GPA-wise, since it is an MPH and not a MS or post-bacc.

 

[LindaAccepted]

You're right that the MPH won't count in your GPA, but at least you did well. In secondaries you may have the opportunity to provide context for the drop in grades during the middle of undergrad. You should have lots of ammunition to argue that there were circumstances that no longer exist and that you did well academically other than that.

 

[MDR2024]

You're right that the MPH won't count in your GPA, but at least you did well. In secondaries you may have the opportunity to provide context for the drop in grades during the middle of undergrad. You should have lots of ammunition to argue that there were circumstances that no longer exist and that you did well academically other than that.

Thank you!